Text 24

sa vā ayaṁ sakhy anugīta-sat-katho
vedeṣu guhyeṣu ca guhya-vādibhiḥ
ya eka īśo jagad-ātma-līlayā
sṛjaty avaty atti na tatra sajjate

Translation

O dear friends, here is that very Personality of Godhead whose attractive and confidential pastimes are described in the confidential parts of Vedic literature by His great devotees. It is He only who creates, maintains and annihilates the material world and yet remains unaffected.

Purport

As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, all the Vedic literatures are glorifying the greatness of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Here it is confirmed in the Bhāgavatam also. The Vedas are expanded by many branches and subbranches by great devotees and empowered incarnations of the Lord like Vyāsa, Nārada, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the Kumāras, Kapila, Prahlāda, Janaka, Bali and Yamarāja, but in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam especially, the confidential parts of His activities are described by the confidential devotee Śukadeva Gosvāmī. In the Vedānta-sūtras or Upaniṣads there is only a hint of the confidential parts of His pastimes. In such Vedic literatures as the Upaniṣads, the Lord has expressively been distinguished from the mundane conception of His existence. His identity being fully spiritual, His form, name, quality, and paraphernalia, etc., have been elaborately distinguished from matter, and therefore He is sometimes misunderstood by less intelligent persons as impersonal. But factually He is the Supreme Person, Bhagavān, and He is partially represented as Paramātmā or impersonal Brahman.

HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj :

So here is a description of the Lord who should be glorified because of His wonderful pastimes. Now, as I mentioned previously, there are different types of pastimes.

One of them is mentioned here. He creates, maintains and destroys the material world. So He is also the soul of the universe, Jagat Atma.

But He performs pastimes in relation to the material world but is not contaminated by anything here. That pastime itself is difficult for many people to accept. So in the modern world, scientists don’t accept that there is a creator, Mahavishnu, who glances over Prakriti and manifests material world.

They don’t believe that. So, to accept that there is a Supreme Lord with a form who creates and destroys the material world, to accept that requires some faith. When we accept that fact, then we will worship the Lord.

But we will worship the Lord because of His power. And thus, in many religions, even in India, the Lord is described as the creator. So everything comes from the Lord and everything disappears in the Lord.

So this is one aspect of the Lord. It is not untrue. But it is not the only aspect of the Lord.

So the Lord also has pastimes in the spiritual world that have nothing to do with the material world. In the spiritual world, there is no material world. So you cannot have a pastime of creating the material world in the spiritual world.

And you cannot create the spiritual world because it is eternal. There is no creation. So what does the Lord do there? So it may be difficult for people to accept that, yes, there is a creator of the material world, creator and destroyer of the material world.

But it is even more difficult to understand that there is also a spiritual world in there. The Lord also has activities with His devotees. But these activities are very difficult to understand.

So, to have complete knowledge of God, then we should accept both these aspects of the Lord. And of course, it is also explained in Bhagavatham that this creation of the material world, destruction of the material world, looks like it is a huge event, but it is nothing. Prabhupada describes that it is not just one universe, but all the universes together.

It is like a trace of a little cloud in the whole of the spiritual sky. It is nothing. Nevertheless, just to get to the stage of accepting that God creates the material world, that also is not untrue.

So it is acceptable. But if we can accept and realize the pastimes in the spiritual world, we get much more satisfaction. So, at the beginning of the Bhagavatham, in the first canto, it describes that the Lord has three aspects – Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan.

So, it is Bhagavan who is doing activities in the spiritual world with His devotees. It is Paramatma who is manifesting this material world and destroying it. So, what does Brahman do? Nothing.

It does not have any form, it does not have any qualities, it does not have any activities. But nevertheless, it is also part of the Supreme Lord. So, the Bhagavatham very carefully says, yes, we can appreciate the Lord as Bhagavan, Paramatma and Brahman, but actually they are one person.

For convenience in the material world, we divide the Lord up into three parts, but actually that is just for our understanding. That is all. But actually, He is one person.

However, He can be realized differently by different people. So, Jnanis and Yogis will realize Him as Brahman. Yogis and even devotees can appreciate Him as Paramatma.

And devotees will appreciate Him as Bhagavan. So, all of these people get a realization of the Lord, but realization of Bhagavan is complete. And thus, it is a superior realization.

So, this is what is glorified in the Bhagavatham . Though Brahman and Paramatma are described, nevertheless Bhagavan is most glorified. So, by different means, we will realize the Lord differently.

So, by Jnana, we can realize the Lord as Brahman. Why does Jnana only give Brahman realization? It is because in the sadhana of Jnana, the Jnani is saying, this Brahman has no qualities, has no form, has no activities. So, that is what the Jnani attains.

In the second canto of the Bhagavatham , it is explained that some of the Yogis concentrate upon Paramatma, a form with four arms in the heart. So, they attain that form. And through devotion, the devotees establish a relationship with the Lord and they realize Bhagavan.

So, they are all realizing the Lord, but slightly differently. In the Bhagavatham also, the example is given of the senses. So, if you observe milk with your eye only, you can get some true knowledge of milk.

What is the knowledge? Milk is white. Of course, so many other things are white also. If we use our touch, it is liquid.

But, if we only use touch and not our eye, it could be water, it could be anything. If we use the tongue, then we say, oh, milk is delicious, it is sweet, I will drink it. Nevertheless, if we don’t use our eyes, we wouldn’t know what color the milk was.

So, through the different senses, we get some different types of knowledge of milk. So, by using different sadhanas, like karma, jnana, yoga, or bhakti, we get different visions of the Lord. So, all of them are true realizations, but they are not complete.

So, the eye gives us a little knowledge, the tongue gives us knowledge, touch gives us knowledge, ear gives us knowledge. So, we get all this knowledge. The mind takes all of that knowledge and combines it together, then we get a complete idea of milk.

So, by bhakti, we get a complete understanding of the Supreme Lord as Bhagavan. And that realization will include Paramatma and Brahman within us. So, we should accept the Supreme Lord, but best if we can appreciate the Lord in full as Bhagavan.

So, to get to that appreciation of the Lord as Bhagavan, that’s a big step. So, in that sense, it’s rare to be a devotee. Bhagavatham goes a step further.

Here, it talks about guhyam, the secret in the Vedas. So, Bhagavatham describes it. Yes, Bhagavan is Supreme, but there are many forms of Bhagavan also.

And just as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan are one, all these forms of Bhagavan are also one. So, Varaha and Narasimha are also Brahman, Paramatma, Bhagavan. And though they look different, Narasimha looks different from Varaha, they are actually one person, Bhagavan.

So, why do we have so many forms of Bhagavan? So, in one sense, it’s not necessary. However, devotees desire different forms, and therefore the Lord shows different forms. Though these forms are non-different, and they are all one, still we can distinguish them.

Some having manifestation of more qualities, some manifesting less qualities. Because they are all Bhagavan, and they are all one, we can say that Narasimha or Rama or Varaha also manifest 64 qualities like Krishna, but they don’t show them. They have them, but they don’t show them.

So, in Nectar of Devotion, in the very first beginning, there Rupa Goswami says that actually yes, Vishnu, Krishna, Siddhanta, they are one entity, not different. But Krishna is distinguished as being superior because of his greater manifestation of Rasa. So, we can say that all Rasa is in all forms because they are all one Lord, but Krishna manifests all the Rasa, the other forms do not.

Although there are many forms, and they are all actually one person, Bhagavan, still Krishna is designated as the supreme form because he manifests qualities in full. So, just as it is difficult for people interested in Brahman to understand that Bhagavan and Paramatma are one with Brahman, so difficult for people to accept that there are different forms of Bhagavan and Krishna is supreme form. So, it is all somewhat secret, but all of this is revealed in Srimad Bhagavatham .

And for that reason, Bhagavatham is considered to be the summary, the conclusion of all scriptures. So, Bhagavatham will contain the highest secrets of the Vedas. So, here the women of Hastinapur are glorifying Krishna.

So, it is not the Brahman feature, somewhat the Paramatma feature, but ultimately they see Krishna before them, walking out of the palace, getting in his chariot, so they are glorifying Bhagavan. And not just one Bhagavan, but Krishna as Bhagavan. So, he is the person who is worthy of full glorification.

His secondary aspect is to create and destroy the material world.

Q & A

1) In spiritual world, all Nitya-siddhas are fighting for Krishna. Nanda, Yasoda, Devaki, Vasudeva, Dwaraka-vasis, Vraja-vasis, all of them wanted Krishna simultaneously all the time. In this material world of devotees, Sadhana absorbed in Radha consciousness the whole day by dressing her with glorious dress, costly jewelry, fancy hair dressing, serving her obediently by getting her ready for Krishna’s pastimes to be in Krishna consciousness. Is it right rather than Krishna consciousness so that Krishna will always reach Radharani sometimes, thereby we get frequent opportunity to meet Krishna? 

No, anyway, nobody is fighting for Krishna. In one sense, yes, we say there is some competition. So, we have Candravali’s group and Radha’s group competing for Krishna. But Krishna satisfies all the devotees. So, we see in the Rasalila, there were billions of Gopis. Krishna expanded himself. He was with each Gopi individually. Similarly, in eating with the cowherd boys, Krishna expands himself to be with each cowherd boy and he eats his lunch with each cowherd boy. So, in that way, though it looks like there is competition because of so many devotees, Krishna because he is Supreme Lord, he satisfies each devotee. 

2) What is the quality of the Brahman?

HH Bhanu swami Maharaj : Doesn’t have qualities, Nirvisesha.

Because we say Atma also considers Brahman. How do you define the Atma? Atma we also define as sac-cid-ānanda vigraha. Brahman realization is atma realization. So, in what this sac-cid-ānanda Vigraha applies to Brahman also, applies to Atma also?

Well, in Brahman, we don’t have a form. There is no Vigraha. Now, the Jiva does have a svarupa. In other words, he is a conscious being. He is capable of experiencing, capable of bliss, capable of knowing, capable of acting, etc. he has many qualities which are intrinsic in Jiva. When the Jiva realizes Brahman, he realizes he is a conscious being, but he is not conscious of anything because there is no duality. So that state is called cin-matra, consciousness alone , it is not aware of anything though because there is nothing to cease, non dual there is no duality. 

How does he reach that state? Because that’s what he desires. He desires a state of just being conscious. 

3) The purpose of yuga dharma is to develop prema for the lord. So in that sense in satya yuga they were practising meditation. 

No, meditation. Not necessarily Ashtanga Yoga. Meditation is part of Bhakti also.

Devotee : I consider it as Ashtanga Yoga because they had to do it for 60,000 years and at the last only they were able to see the Paramatma and that is considered as the perfection of the life. So, seeing the Paramatma gives a prema to the devotee, practitioners. 

So, actually what is said is that in the different Yugas, through meditation, through homa, through deity worship and Kirtan, one realizes the same Lord. So, they are all forms of Bhakti and through that we can realize Bhagavan. It doesn’t mean that in Satya Yuga they did Ashtanga Yoga, in Treta Yuga they did Karma Yoga and whatever like that. It doesn’t mean that.

4) It feels blissful to hear spiritual pastimes of the Lord in Goloka and Vaikuntha. However, when we see the degrading situation in Kali Yuga, we feel sad for them. The condition of cows being slaughtered or seeing their eating plastic on the streets. How to overcome this anxiety? 

Well, the material world is there in Satya Yuga and in Kali Yuga and in Svarga Loka and in Brahma Loka. It is all material. So, it may be golden prison house or it may be iron prison house. But it is prison house. So, Satya Yuga is called the golden age and then Kali Yuga is the iron age. 

But it is the material world. Everybody is subject to birth and death anyway. Unfortunately, in a good condition like Satya Yuga or Svarga Loka, we tend to think, oh it is very nice here. And thus the devatas say better to be born on earth in kali yuga than to be born in Svargaloka because we tend to forget everything. So, to be born in Kali Yuga is a good reminder that the material world is not a very nice place. 

5) Bhagavatham is the essence of all Shastras., so that previous Acharya’s book like Madhurya Kadambini  and now present Acharya’s book, so are these supporting Bhagavatham or including teachings? 

So, the commentaries of the Acharya’s and the works they write are simply to reinforce the conclusion of Bhagavatham . The reason they have to do that is other people make other conclusions of Bhagavatham . And this may confuse people, so therefore they have to give the correct meaning. 

6) All forms of Bhagavan have Brahman and Paramatma features ?

Well, as Bhagavatham says Advaya Jnana, they are all one. 

7) Sometimes devotees feel saturation in their devotional service, but Bhakti is dynamic as it is increasing ananda ever. So how can we understand this saturation feeling? 

So, there are different levels of Bhakti. And of course, as we advance, we get closer to ananda, which means we go to Bhava and Prema. So, now the Bhakti should grow like a plant. So the question is, well, we get stuck at some place. There could be two feelings. Well, this is the extent of bliss and Bhakti. I don’t need any more, therefore, I’ll do something else. Or, I’m not getting any bliss at all, so why should I do it? So, this means that the Bhakti is not being performed properly. The plant is not growing.

In the very beginning of Nectar of Devotion, Rupa Goswami explains, the second quality of Bhakti is Subhadha. And one definition of Subha, giving auspiciousness is, it gives happiness. And this quality will manifest in Sadhana Bhakti.

Of course, like Klesha Agni, destruction of suffering, these two qualities will continue in Bhava and they’ll be even more manifest in Prema. In Prema, it takes the form of Sandara Ananda or intense bliss.

In Sadhana Bhakti, we’ll get Bhakti Sukha. Gradually, it will increase and in Prema, it will manifest intense bliss. If the tree stops growing, we won’t get complete happiness.

And rather, we will seek happiness from things in the material world. So, in other words, the weeds in the garden will be more attractive than the Bhakti Lata. In other words, the weeds in the garden will be more attractive than the Bhakti Lata.

8) What is the difference between devotees who got liberated and Santa rasa devotees? 

Persons who are liberated do not see a form of the lord, they don’t even see themselves. Audio not clear (They don’t see anything). Person with Santa rasa has a relationship with the Lord. Rasa means relationship with Bhagavan. When Krishna came into Kamsa’s arena, there were some yogis there in the arena and they saw Krishna, in Santa rasa, they saw Krishna. The jnanis and  the yogis even cannot see even the ray of light from the toenail of Krishna. 

9) You mentioned that those who try to understand the Bhagavan feature cant understand other forms of the lord as Krishna. Is it okay to remain like that or we should change that?

Well, I didn’t say exactly that. What I said is that some people can appreciate Bhagavan. Okay, let us worship Supreme Lord with the form qualities and activities and go to the spiritual world. But they cannot appreciate that Krishna is the highest form. Similarly, if they are attracted to any form of Bhagavatham, that is fine. Thus, Murari Gupta could not give up worshipping Rama and Lord Chaitanya said, fine. Venkata Bhatta in Srirangam was worshipping Vishnu and Krishna said, okay, you worship Vishnu. 

Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam Ki.. Jai ! Srila Prabhupad Ki.. Jai !!