Srimad Bhagavatam – 1.13.60 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | April 22, 2025!
Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracharine
nirvishesha-shunyavadi-pashchatya-desha-tarine
jaya sri-krishna-chaitanya
prabhu nityananda
sri-adwaita gadadhara
shrivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatham Canto 1 Chapter 13 Verse 60.
ŚB 1.13.60
इत्युक्त्वाथारुहत् स्वर्गं नारद: सहतुम्बुरु: ।
युधिष्ठिरो वचस्तस्य हृदि कृत्वाजहाच्छुच: ॥ ६० ॥
ity uktvāthāruhat svargaṁ
nāradaḥ saha-tumburuḥ
yudhiṣṭhiro vacas tasya
hṛdi kṛtvājahāc chucaḥ
Synonyms
iti — thus; uktvā — having addressed; atha — thereafter; āruhat — ascended; svargam — into outer space; nāradaḥ — the great sage Nārada; saha — along with; tumburuḥ — his stringed instrument; yudhiṣṭhiraḥ — Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira; vacaḥ — instructions; tasya — of his; hṛdi kṛtvā — keeping in the heart; ajahāt — gave up; śucaḥ — all lamentations.
Translation
Having spoken thus, the great sage Nārada, along with his vīṇā, ascended into outer space. Yudhiṣṭhira kept his instruction in his heart and so was able to get rid of all lamentations.
Purport
Śrī Nāradajī is an eternal spaceman, having been endowed with a spiritual body by the grace of the Lord. He can travel in the outer spaces of both the material and spiritual worlds without restriction and can approach any planet in unlimited space within no time. We have already discussed his previous life as the son of a maidservant. Because of his association with pure devotees, he was elevated to the position of an eternal spaceman and thus had freedom of movement. One should therefore try to follow in the footsteps of Nārada Muni and not make a futile effort to reach other planets by mechanical means. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was a pious king, and therefore he could see Nārada Muni occasionally; anyone who desires to see Nārada Muni must first be pious and follow in the footsteps of Nārada Muni.
Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports of the First Canto, Thirteenth Chapter, of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, entitled “Dhṛtarāṣṭra Quits Home.”
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So Narada Muni concluded his instructions, and then he departed. And as explained here, Yudhisthira understood the instructions, and he gave up lamentation. So here we see, as in other places of Bhagavatam, the function of a great devotee. Narada Muni gives instructions, and Yudhisthira receives them, and he gets very good results. In fact, we will see that the whole Bhagavatam is one person, one devotee giving instructions to another.
And this is how they advance in their spiritual life.
Sometimes the Lord Himself gives instructions, as Krishna gave instructions to Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna gave instructions to Uddhava in Bhagavatam. Of course, we see in this chapter, Vidura gave instructions to Dhrtarashtra. And Narada gives instructions to Yudhisthira. Of course, previously in the Bhagavatam, we see that Narada gives instructions to Vyasadeva. At the end of this canto, we see that Pariksit gets instructions from Sukadeva Goswami. And then Sukadeva Goswami recites Bhagavatam, and within that, we have various devotees instructing other devotees. And thus, the most important function of a devotee is to give instructions. And for that good reason, we see that our Sampradaya, we trace by instructions, not by Diksha.
In fact, very few times do we see the Diksha being described in the Bhagavatam. One instance we see is Narada Muni give mantra to Dhruva. And then Dhruva used that mantra, and he began worshipping the Lord, and he got his success. But by at large, we see Bhagavatam is not about transmitting mantras, but transmitting teachings. And thus we can trace Siksha Parampara. So, as I said, the main function of that devotee is to give wonderful instructions.
If a Guru gives mantra, and therefore Diksha, but doesn’t give any instructions, it becomes problematic. So therefore, the Diksha Guru also has to give instructions, and particular instructions on the particular mantra. And in that way, the disciple gets benefit from chanting that particular mantra. With the advent of Nama Sankirtana as a Yuga Dharma, we find there’s some difference. So we call ‘Hare Krishna’ a mantra. But it is not mantra like the Diksha mantras. And it does not require Diksha. This is clearly stated in Caitanya Caritamrita. But it is also obvious, because anybody can chant Vishnu, Narayana, Krishna, and you don’t need Diksha to do that. Even Ajamila chanted the name Narayana, no Diksha. Of course, you cannot accidentally chant mantras. Because mantras are a particular combination of words. So you have to get the exact sequence of those words from the Diksha Guru.
But chanting the name is independent of that. It’s just names of the Lord. And you’ll find names of the Lord everywhere in scripture. Vishnu Sahasranama, Krishna Sahasranama, Nrsimha Sahasranama, etc. And even if chanted accidentally, they still have effect. So they have such effect that they can even get liberation just by accidental chanting. So therefore, these chanting the name of the Lord, Nama Sankirtana, does not need Diksha. And thus, it becomes a practical method for spiritual advancement in Kali Yuga. If we say to chant Hare Krishna, you need Diksha, then it will be very limited, how many people are going to be chanting Hare Krishna. But because it does not require Diksha, we can broadcast the name of the Lord everywhere.
So it is said that mantras are secret, if you reveal the mantra, it loses its power. So you never reveal your Diksha mantra to another person. At the same time, name is not subject to restrictions. Not secrets, does not lose its power. So Nama Sankirtana means chanting and particularly chanting together, chanting loudly. Instead of losing power by becoming public, it gets power, it gains power. Therefore, it is very very practical for Kali Yuga.
So in Dvapara Yuga, the process was deity worship, for deity worship, you need Diksha mantras. But most of the people were qualified for Diksha. So therefore, they can advise everyone to do deity worship. So for Kali Yuga, situation is quite different. So easier process. Easier process does not mean it gives less result. Of course in the material world, some things are easy and you get a little result, you don’t get great results. You go to some colleges, they have very easy exams, you can get a degree, very easy, but that degree is not worth too much. But not so with Nama Sankirtana, easy process but it gives better result.
So, this may be so but then people will say then why scripture does not recommend Nama Sankirtana. And truly it does, if you look in Bhagavatam, that’s what is recommended. But people don’t follow. But such a habit is not just in relation to Nama Sankirtana, worship of the Supreme Lord is the ultimate conclusion of the Vedas. But in ancient times, most of the people were not worshipping the Lord, what were they doing? Karma kanda. So though the conclusion is there, people read the Vedas, they follow a different process.
Of course Karma kanda is mentioned in the Vedas. But clearly the result is not the same. It gives partial results. So, Karma kanda lures people to do something and it promises nice material enjoyment. So why? So they will follow rules. By the rules they get purification. But unfortunately, they look at the immediate goal, enjoyment, they don’t look at the goal of purification. So the example is given in the Bhagavatam. A child is sick, father wants to cure him. So the cure is neem juice. But child won’t take the neem juice, it’s too bitter. So the father says, if you take the medicine, I will give you some sweets, laddu. So because the child wants the laddu, he will drink the medicine. So in that sense, the words of this Veda is called flowery words of the Vedas, very attractive. But that’s not the ultimate result we should strive for. The medicine is not sweet, so you can eat candy but so you get cured [Laughs]. But unfortunately, people get attracted to the sweets.
So similarly, Nama Sankirtana is mentioned in the Vedas etc. but people have other conclusions. So in this way, we should not be attracted to the flowery words of the Vedas, we should see only the conclusion. And as I said the conclusion is ultimately Nama Sankirtana. Of course, to teach that, we also need devotees. If people want a spiritual process, we should follow scripture. People become confused about what is the goal of scripture. So necessary we have devotees to preach the conclusion. So in that sense even Nama Sankirtana depends upon mercy of devotees. And through the mercy of devotees, people hear the name. Secondly name is independent of everything, but if we don’t have proper knowledge when we chant, we cannot get the highest result.
So chanting without knowledge is called Nama-abhas. That means it gives result but not the highest result. So the sun behind a cloud gives light and gives warmth to some degree. And plants can grow. But if it is always cloudy then plants will grow very slowly. So sunlight through the clouds is like Nama- abhas. If we get rid of the clouds then we have full power of the sun. So that is pure chanting, Suddha- Nama. So how do we get rid of the clouds? So major portion of the clouds is caused by ignorance. Ignorance of who is the Lord. So people may chant Hare Krishna but they think who is Krishna. Oh Krishna is some Devata like Indra. So you can get some result but you don’t get Prema.
So the devotee has to have a clear understanding of what is the name, who is the Lord. He has to understand the goal is Prema, not material enjoyment, not liberation. He has to understand the difference between Jiva and the Supreme Lord. So, we get this by knowledge. By that knowledge, we destroy the ignorance then we have Suddha-naam, pure chanting. Therefore we chant the name, but we do need knowledge and thus we need devotees to give the knowledge. And thus though Nama Sankirtana does not need Diksha or Diksha Guru, it does need Siksha Guru.
Of course, we can say that well we don’t need Guru so much now because we have all these books. So one sense that is true, in previous ages even 50 years ago or 100 years ago, books were not that much available. In the modern world, books and other communication things are readily available. So that gives us great advantage. Unfortunately, even if we have all the books and things are made very clear, still tendency of the Jiva is to make mistakes. So inspite of having all the books, still, a devotee can make mistakes and get the wrong meaning. So that is why scripture is good, scripture is in books, but we also need devotees.
What is the guarantee that devotees are not also going to make mistakes? So, it is true, yes, the devotees are there, they can make mistakes, they are also Jivas. But we also have some safeguard. One is, they are coming through tradition where they got the knowledge also through a devotee, who gave through a devotee, so we have some sort of Siksha Parampara. And the other safeguard is that the devotee has reached a certain level of maturity. So that gives him qualification to communicate the knowledge in the proper way. And how do we test it? It will give some result. The result here was that Yudhishthira gave up his lamentation. So therefore, by taking the instructions of scripture through the devotee, and who is mature and in the Parampara, then we should get the proper effect.
Hare Krsna!
Q & A:
1) Maharaj, we see when disciple surrender to Guru – diksha Guru, then the diksha Guru takes the responsibility of the disciple to take back to Godhead. But in the case of siksha Guru, siksha Guru is also taking responsibility to take him back to Godhead or not? And how he is following that, they are following the instruction or not?
We don’t have any scriptural statement to say that, that the Diksha Guru has some special power or whatever. Anyone who takes responsibility, then they can act in that proportion. They can give mantra or they can give Siksha. So in Caitanya Caritamrta there it says, Siksha Guru and Diksha Guru – equal respect. So one doesn’t do more than the other. So we cannot say, if you don’t have a Diksha Guru, but you have a Siksha Guru, you cannot get Prema. It doesn’t say that.
It doesn’t say that anywhere in the Sastra. And in fact most of the statements in Bhagavatam and Upanishads, they don’t distinguish Siksha. They say Guru [Laughs], that’s all. Surrender to Guru. But Siksha / Diksha doesn’t say. On the other hand, some of the Upanishadic statements are definitely Siksha Guru. So we have statements by worshipping your Guru like God, then all the imports of Shastra reveals. So that’s a Siksha Guru, not a Diksha Guru.
If we go to Pancharatra, which emphasizes Diksha, then we’ll find glorification of Diksha Guru. Don’t get a Diksha Guru, nothing is achieved, etc. But we can also say, if you have a Diksha Guru and a Siksha Guru, but neither of them tell you to chant the Holy Name, still you can’t get Prema [Laughs]. So ultimately of course, we can say, attaining the highest goal of Prema is dependent on many factors. And it’s spread over many lifetimes.
So you have a Siksha Guru and a Diksha Guru in this lifetime, and maybe you come up to Nishtha. Did the Gurus fulfill their responsibility or not? And of course, they left their body, you leave your body. Then you get another body, then you get more Gurus. Which Diksha Guru is responsible for taking you to Krishna and giving you Prema? – Many Gurus. Or it may not even be the Diksha Guru, it may be the Siksha Guru. So thus we trace a Siksha Parampara, not a Diksha Parampara. So Bhaktivinoda Thakur had a Diksha Guru, Bipin Bihari Goswami, but we never even mentioned him.
So any Guru has a responsibility and raises the devotee up. But we cannot say one is going to do it, the other is not going to do it, whatever.
2) Hari bol Maharaj, the concept of Diksha Guru, Siksha Guru, is only in Gauida Sampradaya ? Like Madhva, they don’t even initiate in Madhva Sampradaya. So the Siksha Guru concept is only in our institution, or is it the general principle for other Sampradayas as well?
So I can say most Sampradayas will have both Siksha and Diksha Gurus, they may not call it like that, but they do have processes of giving mantra, and they have processes for teaching. And particularly, if they are going to emphasize deity worship, then they do need to get some mantra, so they do need a Diksha of sorts.
However, these other Sampradayas do not put the main emphasis upon Nama Sankirtan, so that’s a little bit different from our Sampradaya.
3) ISKCON motto is only attain lotus feet (of Lord), (through) chanting, but fools are also able to attain lotus feet (of Lord) ? What is the last son’s name for Ajamila?
Well, Ajamil was a fool in one sense, he was a sinful person, he named his son Narayana, so he destroyed all of his Karmas.
4) Maharaj, while we appreciate the sufficiency of Siksha, what should be the right understanding when our founder Acharya Srila Prabhupada has given Harinam Diksha?
So, what we call ‘Harinam Diksha’ would be first initiation, we don’t call second initiation, Harinam. I don’t know whether Prabhupada used the term ‘Harinam Diksha’, he used first initiation, second initiation. So what we call first initiation is a carry over we can say from Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati’s custom of giving some beads and a name, but he never called it initiation. Only when you get your mantra, that was called. So of course, by giving beads is a formalization of chanting the name. But actually we have been chanting the name before that, so we are not even getting the name, we already have the name [Laughs].
However in the Gaudiya Mutt often they have not been chanting the name and they give them beads and whatever, ok start chanting the name. So in that sense, it is ‘Naam Dhan’ giving the name. So in ISKCON of course this what we call first initiation has become quite a formalized ceremony, in Gaudia Matt it is not. And that’s a little puzzling for us when we see devotees go to the Gaudiya Mutt, they just walk in and not even chant again, suddenly [Laughs] they got what we call first initiation [Laughs].
So sometimes Prabhupad when he is giving a lecture on initiation, he says, initiation means to start, to begin something which is like initiate, to start something. So in that sense yes, they are starting something, with their first chanting or if they are already chanting, at least they are doing it seriously. And it’s also a willingness to accept the instructions of a particular person, we can call the guru. So in one sense we can say, it’s largely accepting a shiksha guru. Because in our system at least, guru gives a name, it can also be partly initiation.
We have something called pancha samskara in pancharatra, which is initiation. So at that ceremony, they are allowed to wear tilak. They get branded, tapa. So they take copper or iron brands of shanka and chakra and they stick it on their shoulders. And you get a name like Krishna Das, Venkateshwara Das, Balaji Das or something like that [Laughs]. And then you are allowed to do deity worship. These are called pancha samskaras. These are mentioned in Bhakti Sandhara, but just once I think he mentions it, doesn’t really explain it too much. But Bhakti Vinod Thakur elaborately wrote on this.
So it is followed in Ramanuja Sampradaya, but not by the Gaudiyas in general. They don’t brand, they don’t do all that stuff. Many did not even get names. Lord Caitanya got mantra, he didn’t get a name. Nithyananda got a mantra, didn’t get a name. Even Vishnawatha Chakravarty doesn’t seem to have a name also. He got mantra [Laughs]. So of all those five elements, the main element is getting the mantra and that’s being carried on in our Sampradaya without the other thing.
However, we do see that Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, he started giving names. So nothing wrong with that. It’s also part of the pancha samskara and pancha ratra. So to get the name, we can say it’s a part of the Diksha, but not the complete process. So if you get the first initiation but not the second initiation, it’s not real Diksha because you are not qualified for deity worship. If you were to get the mantra, but you didn’t get a name, you are still qualified for deity worship. If you were to get the mantra, but you didn’t get a name, you are still qualified for deity worship.
However, in our Sampradaya, because we emphasize Nama Sankirtan, that second initiation is not so important [Laughs]. So the Diksha is not so important in that sense. Chanting Hare Krishna becomes more important and therefore first initiation becomes more important.
And thus, we find a little confusion in Prabhupada’s statement. In one letter he writes that the second initiation is the real initiation. So that’s true from Pancharatrik point of view and even from Bhakti Siddhanta’s custom. But in another letter, he says, first initiation is more important [Laughs]. So, more important because Harinama is more important to us than chanting mantras or deity worship.
5) Maharaj, should we understand that this practice of first initiation will continue in ISKCON?
There is no problem in doing that, but we should understand what it is and what it isn’t.
6) Maharaj, when we chant Bhagavan’s name without proper knowledge, it will not give full effect to the person who is chanting. But at the same time, we read somewhere that when we chant the holy name of the Lord, that holy name will give everything for that person. So how can we understand these contradictory statements?
Yes, holy name can give you anything in the material world. It can give liberation, it can give prema. But if you commit namaparada, obviously you are not going to get prema. If you chant inattentively, you are not going to get prema. If you refuse to accept the teachings of scripture, you are not going to get prema. The name can give everything, but we have to chant in a certain way to get the highest goal.
7) Maharaj, you said in the before answer, without name also, if you get the mantra, you can worship the deities. So according to our ISKCON structure, if one chants the holy name for years together, after first initiation, then only we will get the second initiation – mantra. So how to reconcile this? Or the first initiation and second initiation should be given the same day? Is that like that?
In other sampradayas, they don’t chant the holy name at all. So, they just get their mantra, they worship their deity. In our sampradaya, we say that no process is complete without chanting the name. So even if you do deity worship, you have to chant the name. By chanting the holy name, it gets rid of all of our mistakes and faults and aparadhs in the deity worship. So therefore, we don’t have second initiation without first initiation in ISKCON [Laughs].
But we do have cases where Prabhupada gave first and second at the same time. But of course, they were already chanting Hare Krishna.
8) Hare Krishna Maharaj, in order to study the scriptures or the Vedas, one has to undergo the sacred ceremony. So how can we study the scriptures without undergoing the sacred ceremony?
Only for studying the Vedas, there is a requirement that you have to get the Brahma gayatri mantra through Upanayana samskara. If you want to study Puranas, Mahabharata, Bhagavad Gita, there is no requirement. So we don’t require Vaishnava initiation to hear the Puranas or to recite Bhagavad Gita or whatever.
Devotee: Hare Krsna, due to time constraints, online questions will be continued tomorrow.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam Ki.. Jai !! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj Ki.. Jai !!