Diksha, Siksha & Respect| HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia | June 13, 2025
nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracharine
nirvishesha-shunyavadi-pashchatya-desha-tarine
jaya sri-krishna-chaitanya
prabhu nityananda
sri-adwaita gadadhara
shrivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Srila Prabhupad’s constant emphasis on siksha / teaching – from his way of life:
So Srila Prabhupada went to America in the 1960s and he established International Society for Krishna Consciousness. He did kirtan and he preached, but he spent a considerable amount of time, writing. So you see in New York he had his typewriter and he wrote the manuscript for the Bhagavad Gita, later that was published by Macmillan and later by BBT. And after he did that, then he wrote, Nectar of devotion, Isopanisad and Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Krishna book and then he started doing the whole Bhagavatam. And in the middle, he did Caitanya Caritamrta and then he continued the Bhagavatam up until his disappearance and he got into the 14th chapter of Tenth Canto at that time. So he spent a considerable amount of time writing. So what was the purpose of all that? Of course, our main activity is on Sankirtana and the devotees were doing Kirtan and that’s what attracted them. But he also insisted constantly on teaching.
Srila Prabhupada’s agenda for next 10000 years is through teachings / knowledge:
So in Matchless gifts or whatever [Laughs], sometimes he was giving lectures and whatever [Laughs]. And people were coming and I doubted that they actually understood anything [Laughs] that Prabhupada spoke [Laughs]. Because he was speaking Bhagavad Gita and he was speaking with an Indian accent and whatever. So I don’t think they actually understood. But nevertheless, Prabhupada insisted on speaking and he insisted on writing. So that was an important part of the movement that Prabhupada established – these scriptures or these books. At one time, he said that, ‘This is the remarkable thing, that this knowledge has passed down and continues into the present time’. And, of course, his idea was that it should pass on to the future. So that’s why he said, these books should continue for up to 10,000 years or later. So the idea is that, the knowledge should continue. So the emphasis here is upon knowledge.
What is emphasized in Bhagavatam / traditionally / historically ?
And if we look at Bhagavatam, Bhagavatam has knowledge. Of course, it’s not Jnana in the sense that Brahman is knowledge in form of Krishna [Laughs]. But it is knowledge. Now how is that knowledge transmitted? So if we go to first Canto, then we see there’s a discussion between sages of Naimisaranya and Suta Goswami. And they ask questions and Suta Goswami answers. So discussion, conversation. By which knowledge is transmitted. And, of course, ultimately what is transmitted is Bhagavatam. So, well, all the first Canto is introduction and questions are there. And then finally, the real answer to everything comes when Sukadeva Goswami begins to speak to Pariksit. So what is being transmitted from Sukadeva Goswami to Pariksit? – Knowledge !! Which is the Canto 2 to middle of Canto 12 – the knowledge.
And even there, after the first Canto, second Canto, and then we get into the third, fourth, and fifth Canto. And then within Sukadeva’s discussion with Pariksit, there are conversations involving Vidura, Maitreya, Narada Muni, Brahma, Uddhava, many different persons. And what are they doing? They’re giving knowledge. So the important thing in a parampara is knowledge. That’s the most important thing. Usually, when we talk about a specific succession, you would think, well, traditionally, people think of a succession, then they may think of a dikṣā succession. And that’s traditionally what is done, a dikṣā succession. And, of course, that’s there. But if you look at Bhagavatam, they rarely speak about dikṣā at all. It’s all teaching. Somebody teaches, somebody teaches. It’s not saying I’m giving you a mantra, I’m giving you dikṣā . I’m giving you teachings. So Brahma teaches Narada, Narada teaches Vyasa, etc [Laughs]. But they’re not teaching mantras, they’re teaching teachings [Laughs]. In other words, it’s sikṣā . And this is the important aspect.
The emphasis on Siksha Parampara by Prabhupad & our Purva acharyas:
Now, in Sampradayas like Sri Sampradaya, Madhva Sampradaya, Nimbarka Sampradaya, Gaudiya Sampradaya, they have a dikṣā process also. So that’s there. But we see that Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati thakura, kind of ignored that [Laughs]. And you look in the Bhagavad Gita, which is an introductory book to spiritual knowledge. And in the introduction to the introductory book [Laughs], there is a Parampara table. And it’s not a dikṣā parampara, its a sikṣā parampara. So by that, Prabhupada is indicating that the important thing in our tradition is the passing of knowledge through sikṣā, not dikṣā. People will challenge and they’ll say, ah, you don’t have a Sampradaya. It’s not like that. It’s sikṣā , we’re talking about sikṣā . We’re not talking about dikṣā, we can also trace the dikṣā parampara, but he wasn’t much interested in that. Like Bhaktivinoda Thakura also had a dikṣā Guru and he mentions that in some of his poetry. But Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura never mentions his dikṣā Guru [Laughs], that’s Bhaktivinoda’s dikṣā Guru. He never mentions that. And he puts Jagannatha das babaji instead, why? Because the sikṣā was more important to him. So in this way, we have a very great emphasis from Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada on a sikṣā parampara.
Prominence of Diksha in ISKCON after Prabhupada’s disappearance:
After Prabhupada’s disappearance, of course, then, of course, controversy, but Prabhupada appointed some dikṣā Gurus [Laughs], which is disputed by Madhu pandit. But anyway, okay, he named some people who were dikṣā Gurus or ritviks, whatever you want to call them. Anyway, they were givers of mantras. So, and we continue that. But we should not forget that, this is not so important, in one sense, because Prabhupada and Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati were emphasizing the sikṣā. So the sikṣā is more important than the dikṣā. Of course, you can say they’re equal, because in Caitanya Caritamrta it says you get equal respect for sikṣā and dikṣā Guru. But within ISKCON, suddenly, the dikṣā Guru becomes everything, and the sikṣā Guru becomes zero. And the dikṣā Guru takes the place of the sikṣā Guru, also becomes both kinds, because Prabhupada was in a position of being both. So usually the dikṣā Guru becomes a sikṣā, dikṣā Guru for all his disciples. So, of course, nothing wrong with that in one sense, but we do have to realize that there is a functional difference, one, between a sikṣā Guru and a dikṣā Guru, which most people don’t really understand.
Diksha in ancient Gaudia’s & what did they publicize?
Of course, we know the sikṣā Guru gives teachings, of course, but what does the dikṣā Guru do in ISKCON? He gives teachings. What else does he do? Somebody says in the morning, he gives beads [Laughs]. Of course that’s there also. He gives a name. You’re Govinda das or whatever, okay he gives a name or whatever like that. But actually, scripturally or historically, if we look at it, dikṣā was different, up until Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. So, who took dikṣā ? Lord Caitanya took dikṣā , Nityananda took dikṣā , Gadadhar took dikṣā, Advaita acharya took dikṣā. Who was there in dikṣā ? There was no beads. There was no name. What did they get for dikṣā ?
Devotee : Gayatri.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, actually, not Gayatri. They got a mantra, definitely. It wasn’t a Gayatri mantra. Yes, Krishna. They got a ten syllable Krishna mantra, basically that’s what Lord Caitanya got and that’s also what Nityananda got, Advaita Acharya [Not clear] got. Maybe an 18 syllable, like we get, we get an 18 syllable mantra. We don’t even get the same one that Lord Caitanya got [Laughs]. We get a different one. Similar, but longer. They got ten syllables, we got 18 syllables, we got 8 syllables extra in that mantra. So that was their dikṣā. They got a mantra in their ear, which is silent, and you don’t tell anyone. So you can’t preach it, really. So that was their dikṣā. Which they didn’t publicize. And then Lord Caitanya, but then, he taught something else. He didn’t teach dikṣā mantras. He taught Nama sankirtan.
The liberal Holy name & the restricted Diksha mantra:
And the glory and unique feature of Nama sankirtan, one of its glories is, it doesn’t require dikṣā at all. You don’t have to have dikṣā to get Hare Krishna. Nobody has to give it to you. And it still has power. You can get your dikṣā mantra secretly from a scripture and not tell anybody. But it hasn’t got power [Laughs]. It has to come through the Guru. And the Guru has to teach you the mantra meaning and how to chant the mantra and its esoteric features or whatever. So that’s the importance of a dikṣā Guru. He teaches the mantra and its meaning and all that sort of thing. So it’s only technical. But Naam is different. It doesn’t require all that. Of course, there is one requirement. Anybody can chant the name and you can accidentally chant, like Ajamila named his son Narayana. You can’t name your child after the Krishna, 18 syllable Krishna mantra [Laughs]. It doesn’t work that way. But you could accidentally name your child Krishna or Narayana or Vishnu or Hayagriva or whatever [Laughs]. Because that was your grandfather’s name or something or the name of your village or whatever, Krishna. So you could name it that way. So accidentally. And it has benefit. You can destroy all your sins, all your karmas, even accidentally, not even with devotion. But that’s the power of the name.
Requirement for Prema – Chanting with Knowledge of suddha bhakti :
Now, if you chant the name with devotion, then you get better results, of course. So Ajamila got all of his karmas destroyed, didn’t get Prema. So accidentally chanted. If you have devotion and knowledge, which goes along with the devotion, then you can get Prema. So therefore, everybody can chant the holy name. It does not require initiation. But you do need some devotion. And to have proper devotion, we call Suddha Bhakti. But then you do have to have some knowledge, like Rupa Goswami’s Nectar of devotion. To understand what is pure Bhakti. So there is some requirement for Prema. No requirement for people to chant, Chant the holy name whatever. You hear them on the radio. You hear in the street whatever. It’s not secret. To get Prema, then it would require some knowledge. That’s why we have the knowledge in Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita, Nectar of Devotion, etc. Those two things to get Prema. We usually don’t talk about chanting your dikṣā Mantra to get Prema [Laughs]. You can. And that’s the Pancharatric system. But that’s not our main system in Gaudiya Sampradaya. The main activity is chanting Hare Krishna, nama, rather than Mantra. So, that’s our main method. Chanting Hare Krishna along with the knowledge we get from all the books Prabhupada wrote. So, in other words, we get the results through Nama. Chanting the holy name. Nama Sankirtana plus sikṣā , with the knowledge of the books. So that’s what has been emphasized in the Bhagavatam. And that’s emphasized in our Parampara mentioned in the beginning of the Bhagavad Gita, etc.
Respect – the requirement to get knowledge:
Now, to get that knowledge, there’s also a requirement. What is the requirement? Respect [Laughs]. So, that’s where the Guru comes in. So, we have countless quotations. We quote, we had these in the Purport this morning [Laughs]. ‘tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet’ (MU 1.2.12) . One should approach or must approach the Guru in order to get Vijnana, knowledge. Famous quote and several others are also there including Bhagavad Gita – ‘upadekṣhyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśhinaḥ’ (BG 4.34). One who has knowledge teaches you. And, of course, then you have to be Pranipat, Pariprashna etc. So, the idea is, you have to go to a Guru to get the knowledge.
Which type of Guru, Upanisad & Bhagavatam is talking about ?
So, who is the Guru? – sikṣā Guru. Because the idea is, for Hare Krishna, we need knowledge. And, therefore, we’re getting a Guru so we can get the knowledge, so, we can understand Pure Bhakti and chant Suddha nama [Laughs]. So, we can get prema. So, therefore, it’s a sikṣā Guru, actually, who is giving you that knowledge. And, then, how do you approach a sikṣā Guru? Then, you have to surrender, give reverence, give worship, etc. All these verses today, treat the Guru like God, etc. We chant every morning Guru astakam, ‘saksad-haritvena samasta-sastrair’ (samsara dava prayers verse 7) Guru is directly Supreme Lord, like the direct Supreme Lord himself. So, therefore, we have Guru. And, most of these quotations, maybe 100% of the quotations, that come from the common ones, at least, that come from the Upanishads, are actually sikṣā Guru, not dikṣā Guru. Talking about treat the Guru as God. Then, even in Bhagavatam, a lot of them are Brahmachari [Laughs]. In Ashrama, Brahmachari’s treat Guru as God, etc. It’s also basically a sikṣā Guru, not a dikṣā Guru.
All Gurus are in same level ?
So, in any case, one has to give respect to the Guru, who could be a dikṣā Guru or sikṣā Guru, in any case, as Caitanya Caritamrta points out, equal respect. They’re all non different from God. Now, one is the dikṣā Guru is an expansion of Madana mohan and sikṣā Guru is an expansion of Govinda Dev [Laughs]. So, non-different from Supreme Lord, in one sense. Commonly accepted. Now, that’s there. But then, what does that mean? That means, automatically when I accept a Guru, that Guru is non-different from God. And therefore, he must be on the same level as Sukadeva Goswami or Prabhupad because of treating him like God. So, for many devotees, that’s their assumption. That he’s on the same level. But it’s not necessary.
Context behind respecting Guru in Vedas:
Because, though these verses are stated, many of them are not even about Vaishnava gurus. So, here are Vedic statements [Laughs]. They’re about Karma, Karma Kanda Gurus or whatever, as Jiva Goswami points out. Actually, the Brahmachari is worshipping his Guru in the ashram because he’s giving Vedic knowledge. And he says, even he’s teaching Karma Kanda, you’re respecting him like God [Laughs]. So, this idea of respecting like God to get the knowledge is there. But, it’s quite different from treating him like Krishna himself. Yes, we give respect to all the Gurus, even if they’re giving knowledge of Karma Kanda, or Jnana Kanda, or whatever. Treat them nicely, give them respect. Because, in order to get any of that knowledge, and even if you’re taking a material subject, you have to give respect to the Guru, the teacher.
Respect – the important ingredient to learn anything even material subject:
So, even in India, like say, recently, like, you know, Ravi shankar pandit, sitar player, and he had to go to the Guru and get his knowledge or whatever [Laughs]. He had to really act humble in front of that Guru. And the Guru would chastise him like anything, get angry at him. And he had to tolerate everything, otherwise, he couldn’t progress. So, even in material subjects, traditionally, you have to treat your Guru with respect. And probably even in Western schools in India, probably that was the [Laughs] thing. I think in Japan, also the same thing. You have to treat the high school teacher, elementary school teacher, with great respect [Laughs]. Probably teachers must know this also [Laughs]. If they don’t get any respect, they’re not going to learn anything. Students won’t learn anything. So, respect is very necessary. So, this is emphasized over and over in the Vedic scriptures, and particularly because they’re generally speaking about spiritual knowledge. So, that becomes more particular. And therefore, you have to give that respect.
Levels of respect:
But as I said, the respect… Yes, we’re treating everyone like God, treating the Guru who teaches Karma kanda like God, etc. But then we have levels of respect also. So, obviously, if he’s teaching Bhakti, he’s going to get more respect than the one teaching him Karma-kanda. If he’s a Madhyama-adhikari, teaching the one as it is stated or like Sukadeva Goswami, we’re going to give him the highest respect or if Narada muni, obviously, we’re going to give the highest respect. If he’s a great person, but he’s not that high, maybe he’s a Madhyama-adhikari, on the Nistha stage, or Ruchi, we still give greater respect. So, we treat him like God also. But still, we don’t treat him the same as one [Not clear]. So, for the Vaishnavas, yes, we treat all Vaishnavas, and we honor all Vaishnavas, and those who are teaching us, who give us dikṣā mantra, we treat them like God. But even then, we have levels of respect.
Respect based on advancement in bhakti is not an offense:
And in Krishna Bhajanamrta, there, Narahari says that according to the level of advancement of the Guru, you get a different level of respect and there’s no offense in doing so [Laughs]. So, you worship the one who’s on higher level first, and you worship the other one second. So, there’s no offense. Which means that there are different levels of Guru. It’s not automatic that you become a Guru, that you’re on the highest level. Suddenly, one day you’re a Guru. The previous day, you weren’t. Suddenly, you’ve advanced. Prema from Nistha, doesn’t mean that. But, you’re getting a certain amount of respect, that’s all. But not that highest respect. So, therefore, we have to be realistic and accept it, so that we understand there are different levels of advancement and different levels of respect.
Don’t over respect / disrespect Guru’s:
Okay so, anyway, we have all these different quotations. We should not then, oh, I have to treat my Guru like God, so that he’s on the highest position. We shouldn’t just assume that automatically he is on the highest level because the scripture says, Guru is like this, therefore my Guru is like that. It doesn’t mean that. But there’s going to be many Gurus on different levels. Obviously, it’s best to have the highest Guru [Laughs] as your Guru. But that’s also very rare. So, not everybody is going to have Narada muni as Guru or Sukadeva Goswami as a Guru or any other.. Rupa Goswami [Laughs], whoever. Of course, they didn’t give initiation anyway. Lord Caitanya also didn’t. Or any other great acharyas who gave initiation even. We’re not going to have them as Gurus. They’re going to be less than that, obviously. So, we should not artificially place Gurus on a higher position. But nevertheless, we don’t disrespect them.
Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswathi Thakur – setting example of how to respect various Guru’s:
So, we have these different types of Gurus, Siksa guru, dikṣā guru and, as I said in Caitanya-caritamrta they are treated equally. That, of course, is assuming that they are at equal levels. Now, if you have a dikṣā Guru, but you have a sikṣā Guru higher in realization, then you would give more respect to the sikṣā Guru. As we see in our parampara, we’re tracing a sikṣā parampara, and Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati doesn’t even mention this dikṣā parampara at all. Because the sikṣā Guru is more prominent in terms of importance, level of realization. Okay, so… So, I hope you understand the difference between sikṣā and dikṣā .
ISKCON diksha & traditional diksha:
When we talk about it, of course, in ISKCON, it’s kind of merged. Everything gets merged. And dikṣā Guru becomes the Guru, and that’s everything. But technically, dikṣā Guru means the one who gives the mantra in second initiation [Laughs]. And may not even give you the Brahma gayatri mantra. Because, before Bhakti SiddhantaSaraswati, there was no Brahma gayatri as part of Vaishnava initiation at all. They would just get the Brahma gayatri when they were children, as its still done in India. When you’re five years old, you take upanayanam ceremony and get your Guru from somebody. Father gets it. Technically, father is your Guru. He’s your dikṣā Guru [Laughs]. Vedic dikṣā Guru is your father. So, that was the system. I think, Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura.. so that add-on of the Brahma gayatri, Vedic is extra. It’s not part of the dikṣā . And if you don’t have the Brahma gayatri, it doesn’t really matter. You’re still… If you don’t have it, it doesn’t matter. You can still worship if you have the Krishna mantra, that is your dikṣā Guru.
The important element of traditional diksha:
So, the name is there, of course, as part of pancha samskara, which is a pancharatric way, where you get a name, you get the mantra, you get tilaka, you get branded with a sanka and chakra on your shoulder with the hot brands, and you could do deity worship. So those are five Samskaras of dikṣā in pancaratra. Still followed in the Ramanuja Sampradaya, even now. But it was not much followed in the Gaudiya Sampradaya, so that’s why even Lord Caitanya, Lord Nityananda they didn’t take names at all, even Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura didn’t give a name [Laughs]. But they got a mantra. So, therefore, the important part is the mantra, not the name or anything like that. You can give the name also. So Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, he also gave names to everyone. But, the most important thing is the mantra. If you don’t have the mantra, you cannot do the deity worship. We do not trace the Parampara by your name that you get from a guru [Laughs]. If you don’t have the mantra, it’s not a dikṣā Parampara. If you got the mantra, fine. If you just got a name like Gopal Das, that doesn’t mean anything [Laughs]. You can’t trace your Parampara. I got a name like this from somebody that doesn’t mean there’s no Parampara. If you got the mantra, fine. So the mantra is the most important part of the dikṣā , traditionally.
The ambiguities in ISKCON Diksha:
But when in ISKCON we talk about dikṣā Guru, we don’t want to even think about the mantra [Laughs]. So what does dikṣā Guru mean? And that’s a little puzzling. So this morning somebody said, the one who gives you the beads, okay, and I said, maybe the one who gives you the name is partially correct, I said. But as I said, the main thing is the mantra, which is like 80% and then the tilak, 20%. So if you get a name, okay, 20% initiation. 20% dikṣā [Laughs]. Beads was not a tradition. It was something, it’s not scriptural, but it was, I think, introduced by Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, maybe before that also. Definitely Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur gave beads. But it was not part of dikṣā . It was actually part of Naam-dhan, giving the name, which was like our first initiation. So Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur didn’t even call it, the first one initiation. Second was the initiation, which is correct, because you get the mantra first, so you get some beads. It was not called initiation, Naam-dhan. And maybe you get the name also. So therefore, that’s not, you can’t say that you get beads, that’s initiation. If you get the name, okay, it’s part of initiation, but not the major part.
But what else is dikṣā for people in ISKCON? What does it mean? So where are the teachings [Laughs]? They’re taking dikṣā as a ceremony. Getting beads, getting name, having fire sacrifice, this and that. That’s the dikṣā. And even second initiation mantra they don’t consider that important [Laughs]. So for us, dikṣā is a ceremony with a fire sacrifice. The fire sacrifice also was not there, even for Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura for first. It wasn’t there for Lord Caitanya and everybody else. They didn’t do that. Pancharatrically yes, Panchasamskara, they do. It’s more complicated. Hari Bhakti Vilas has a fire sacrifice for dikṣā, but it’s very complicated, and nobody in the Gaudiya Sampradaya do that as i know [Laughs], Nobody follows that at all. So most people, they don’t do the fire sacrifice even for getting the mantra. They just give the mantra, finished. And they don’t have the first Hari nama, or giving the holy name, or first initiation. That’s not there.
Naam dhan is not there. Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura introduced this first ceremony, didn’t call it dikṣā. But for ISKCON that becomes dikṣā . And even if you don’t get second initiation, you can say i am initiated [Laughs]. So our whole usage of the term dikṣā Guru becomes a little bit different from what is scripturally accepted. Because you would call it initiated, but we don’t really get the dikṣā mantra. But most, we got the name.
The main problem in ISKCON’s diksha – ignoring the teaching:
But, in doing so, in talking about dikṣā. I think the main problem is that we’re ignoring the teaching completely, which is the most important thing as far as Lord Caitanya is concerned [Laughs]. And even Prabhupada. People went to Prabhupada at the end, how he did the dikṣā, that was the last minute thing [Laughs]. In the last few weeks they asked Prabhupada that, Prabhupada was concerned about writing books, which he was doing for years on it. So it was the teaching which was most important for spiritual advancement. Not the ceremony, not the dikṣā , the dikṣā mantra even, it’s the teaching, which is most important.
Why not a ceremony to accept Siksha Guru ?
So, this morning somebody asked a question, well, yeah, the sikṣā is very good, it’s most important, but there’s no ceremony for them or for people who make it very significant. So then, my answer was, that’s true. But, if you look back, even the dikṣā , there was not a ceremony also. Lord Caitanya just got a mantra in his ear, Nityananda just got a mantra in his ear. Gopa Kumar got a mantra in his ear [Laughs]. No ceremony, nothing. So how official was that? He got a mantra, finished. Just like for sikṣā. I could teach you a sloka of Bhagavad Gita same you got a mantra [Laughs]. You’ve got a meaning of a mantra [Laughs]. So that could be it [Laughs]. I’ll give you a ceremony for sikṣā , and I’ll teach you the first sloka of Bhagavad Gita. So, even then, there was not a ceremony. So, for Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswathi, even the first initiation was not much of a ceremony. There was no fire sacrifice or anything. He just gave the beads and gave them name.
The positive & negative aspect of conducting ceremony for diksha:
In ISKCON, the ceremony becomes quite elaborate and we have tests and requisites etc. So there’s something beneficial in that, because it helps people aspire to their goal. And they commit, listen to vows, etc. That’s good. The negative aspect is that, it places too much on the ceremony and less on the actual meaning of what is happening [Laughs]. As I said, they forget all of the teachings completely, and they just rely on the ceremonies they have initiated. I got a name, that’s it. One of my whole responsibilities is to actually learn the teachings that are handed down in the parampara, and they come out through Prabhupada’s books. So that’s the negative aspect. The positive aspect, yes, is that they aspire. The negative aspect is they forget about the main purpose of the whole thing [Laughs]. This so-called initiation is actually not an initiation as such. It’s to inspire us to get the knowledge through sikṣā . So the deliverance is not to get a name or a mantra. The deliverance is to learn the scriptures [Laughs] through a guru. We on the other hand, there was no, of course, I said, even though there is a ceremony for dikṣā , they got very simplified within the Gaudiya Sampradaya we just got a name ultimately until Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura did it more elaborate, but basically now it is ceremony.
There is no necessity for formalizing siksha through a ceremony:
And sikṣā , even less ceremony, we can say. So Rupa Goswami had, Jiva Goswami had disciples like Srinivasacharya was a disciple, sikṣā disciple of Jiva Goswami. Narottama was sikṣā disciple of Jiva Goswami. No ceremony. But also was not necessary. Because they were fully dedicated to learning from him, that’s all [Laughs]. Why do we have to have a ceremony for that, to get the learning? Now, in formal institutions, yes, they have ceremonies like universities, you get a degree or whatever, a BA or a BSc or a PhD or MSc, whatever it is. If you get different degrees and you finish, you don’t see, and of course, even in a Vedic knowledge, you kind of get a graduation certificate, you graduate and such.
But within the Gaudiya Sampradaya, sikṣā was there, but there was no ceremony beginning, and no ceremony at the end. There was just beginning to knowledge, finished, whatever you could take. So why not, why didn’t they formalize it? Nobody gives an answer for that. But I would think because it was not really necessary. It’s just the seriousness of the disciples, seriousness of the Guru [Laughs]. They transmit knowledge, so you can’t accuse Narada Muni and Vyasadeva . Why didn’t you [Laughs] give them a degree [Laughs]? Why didn’t you give Vyasadeva a degree after you taught him? Doesn’t make any sense. So, the reason was, it wasn’t necessary in a sense. There was no need to do that. They were serious persons to begin with, and they recognized that Guru as a qualified person, so therefore, there was mutual acceptance.
Importance of worshipping Guru properly:
So, therefore, we should, in ISKCON, take a mature view of the Guru’s, because it does cause problems, has caused problems in the past. Now, the present we have Madhu pandit with court victory and publicizing all sorts of things in internet and whatever. And if he want’s to publicize the history of ISKCON, yes, it’s true. So, there were problems with the ISKCON Gurus, and that’s because they were getting worshipped into positions which they’re not qualified for. It doesn’t mean they can’t be Gurus, but and it doesn’t mean you can’t be worshipped, but you can get worshipped on a higher level than what you are. That’s all. So the same goes for the present Gurus. So we should not repeat the same thing that happened in the past, and put a present Guru up on that high platform and worship on a level that he doesn’t. We recognize, and we also give respect to all Gurus. At the same time, we should realize their position realistically. And as I said, they’re all worshipped because, as non-different from God. Why? Because they’re all giving the same knowledge. They give knowledge of God, but it’s not different from Krishna, so therefore you worship him like Krishna, because of that. Now, some will give better knowledge according to how transparent they are, according to their level of advancement. But nevertheless, we’re all giving, so we get respect. Non-different from Krishna. But non-different from, say, to the various degrees [Laughs]. That’s all. But, they’re all doing it.
Don’t disrespect and don’t over respect:
So one example is the postman [Laughs]. So what does the postman do? He simply delivers the message. He doesn’t open up and start changing the letter [Laughs], it’s usually a different letter when it comes out. He just basically gives whatever content is and the person gets the message. So then, the faithful guru is one who does that. Who gives the faithful message of Bhagavad Gita and Bhagavatam to the disciple without distortion. So that’s his function. Because he does that whatever level, we get respect for him. As I said, of course, some are better postman than others [Laughs]. But nevertheless, they’re all giving the same message [Laughs]. They’re not giving a different message. One is making it a little more lively maybe, more inspiring. Nevertheless, we accept them as and give them respect because of that. We don’t disrespect them. At the same time, we don’t over-respect also.
Give Highest respect to Srila Prabhupada:
The last point is that, then if we want to give that respect, the highest respect, we have an opportunity to do that. We give the highest respect to Srila Prabhupada. That’s all. That solves the problem. And people say, oh, that’s Rittvik philosophy [Laughs]. No, it’s not.
We’re not talking about dikṣā guru. Rittvik’s about the dikṣā guru. We’re talking about giving the highest respect to Prabhupada. He was the founder of Acharya, prominent Siksa guru, etc. That’s all. We want to give that highest status and give the high worship, we give to Srila Prabhupada. We want to respect other groups. Fine, we do that. But we recognize that we’re not on the same level. That’s all.
Okay?
Q & A
1.) Thank you very much Maharaj. Maharaj, We understand that there are different levels of guru. My question is, how do we draw the line to understand the minimum level of respect which is accorded to the guru without causing aparadh.
Well, we actually give all respect to all living entities [Laughs]. Respect all living entities. All lives and all living entities. And especially the human beings and Brahmanas we give great respect. And Vaishnavas, we give more respect.
In Nectar of Instruction, there Rupa Goswami talks about some Vaishnavas are quite Kanishta [Laughs]. And they may not even be following everything perfectly, and they may not be in pure bhakti or whatever. We give them mental respect at least. If they’re practicing nicely, and they’re practicing pure bhakti, they’re actually above the Kanishta at that stage. If they’re actually following pure bhakti. If they’re not following pure bhakti, we call them Kanishta. They worship the deity, in the temple, but they don’t respect the devotees. They don’t have knowledge about Bhagavatam, etc. Pure bhakti, etc. If they get the understanding, it’s very easy to do, atleast Bhagavad gita as it is [Laughs] you get a very simple understanding that’s pure bhakti, actually. And they’re a real Vaishnava. Which means, actually, a madhyama. For them, we have to give proper respect to them.
And I think Rupa Goswami says that the one who has been initiated, which is quite serious, then we give respect to the initiated devotee. But then, he says that one who has got higher realization, we give more respect even and we learn from that person. So we respect everybody and then those who are advanced, then we take the knowledge from them. It doesn’t talk about mantra. It’s the knowledge. We take the knowledge from them.
2.) Maharaj, the way you talk about the Siksha Guru, it refers to one particular Guru ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : No, You’ve got many sikṣā Gurus.
Devotee : Okay. If the sikṣā Guru is so important, why he don’t take the karmas of disciples? Why it is said that, it is dikṣā Guru who take away the karmas of disciples, not the sikṣā Guru?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Well, I think maybe the statement is that of dikṣā was ‘divyaṁ jñānaṁ yato dadyāt and pāpasya saṅkṣayam’ (Bhakti-sandarbha (283)) that dikṣā means bestowal of Divya-jnana and destruction of Karma.
But this morning I pointed out that that does not just apply to dikṣā Guru. It applies to the Holy Name also. Because Holy Name is transcendental knowledge and destroys sin. Ajamila just chanted Hare Krishna accidentally and destroyed all those Karmas. Holy Name is non different from Krishna. You chant it with devotion. It’s Divya-jnana. You can realize Krishna in the name, form and qualities in the name, that’s Divya-jnana. So Harinama also has Divya-jnanam and destroys all sin.
So dikṣā Guru does that through how? Through the mantra. The mantra gives you Divya-jnana because it’s got Krishna’s name in there and you get a relationship with Krishna. That’s your Divya-jnana . Hare Krishna gives you the same – relationship with Krishna. Worship Krishna – same thing, destroys sin. They do the same thing. And it works even Bhagavatam. In Bhagavatam it’s Divya-jnana. Bhagavad Gita is Divya-jnana. And it all destroys sin. So they all do it.
It’s not just the dikṣā Guru does that. So that’s a distortion of the fact. And the definition, there’s two verses there. One is Divya-jnana means initiation. Dikṣā means get Divya-jnana, destroys sin. And the next verse is, therefore, you get the mantra from the Guru. And therefore, Jiva Goswami comments. So the mantra is the Divya-jnana. But that’s not the only way to get Divya-jnana, obviously [Laughs]. It’s not the only way. And of course, destroying sin is a minor factor, actually. Because even accidental chanting, you can destroy all your sins. And people who get the first initiation are already chanting 16 rounds, so all the karma’s are already destroyed [Laughs]. Without initiation, without even first initiation [Laughs].
3.) In one of the statements, its mentioned that once you have the mantra, that is everything. So, because Sri Krishna has many mantras, right? So does it make any difference that we chant different mantras? Right? Between Krishna and Hare Krishna?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. There’s a difference between, when I say mantra, it doesn’t mean it’s like Bhagavad Gita mantra, or it’s Vedic mantra. No, I don’t mean that. This is a particular type of Pancharatric mantra, which is secret. And it’s used for deity worship, given by the guru to the disciple when he gives you Diksha. And he also say that it is mantra. If you reveal it, it loses its power and it’s useless [Laughs]. So you keep that mantra secret your whole life, you chant it to yourself, and you use it for worshiping Krishna. So that’s what we call mantra, dikṣā mantra.
Of course, we say Hare Krishna mantra, yeah, because everything in scripture we call mantra also, so therefore and the names of Krishna we also call mantra in that sense. But the distinguishing we call this Nama or Nama Sankirtana. So it’s a little bit different because simply the name of the lord, like Krishna or Rama, this is all Nama. So Hare Krishna is like that.
4.) My question is Maharaj, through dikṣā guru – faith, attachment and conviction is there. Through sikṣā guru, even though we get the knowledge but conviction, faith and attachment is missing. Dikṣā guru, because we personally see the guru we have attachment, we have faith, we see his vani and vapu. So, that’s why I’m continuously staying in Krishna consciousness, because of my attachment to my guru. If I get a sikṣā guru, my relationship with the sikṣā guru is not as good as my dikṣā guru. So how does this place in the devotees…
Well, it will be different for different people. So as I said, with Bhaktivinoda Thakur, it was the opposite [Laughs]. So, Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura didn’t even mention his dikṣā guru at all, when he traced his parampara. So, it all depends on the individual person, sikṣā and dikṣā guru. Who you’re taking as your sikṣā guru and dikṣā guru.
In many cases, the dikṣā guru is there, but how often does a disciple see the dikṣā guru? Once a year, once in about 5 years, once every 10 years, maybe not. So even then, it may be about personal contact. Of course, the same may be a sikṣā guru. A sikṣā guru may be more available than maybe in the local area even. So therefore, they could have regular contact even daily or weekly or whatever. So then they would have more contact, more faith, more confidence, etc. It’s going to depend on the situation.
The other thing is that there may be a closer relationship with the dikṣā guru, not because of physical contact or anything, but it’s because of [Laughs] prejudice [Laughs], dikṣā guru is everything, so therefore I got my attachment to the dikṣā guru. That’s all. It could be that also. Not because of any specific thing the dikṣā guru is doing that is greater than a sikṣā guru could do. In other words, if you can measure the amount of teachings that a sikṣā guru gave or the dikṣā guru, maybe the dikṣā guru is giving less than the sikṣā guru.
But of course, it also depends on one’s own devotion. We can’t mechanicalize everything [Laughs]. It would depend on devotion, but it could go either way. One could have a dikṣā guru, be very devoted to him, have a sikṣā guru with less devotion, fine. Or you can do the opposite. You have more devotion to the sikṣā guru, less devotion to dikṣā guru, but you’re getting less from him, in one sense, than from the sikṣā guru. Therefore, you give more worship of the sikṣā guru.
5.) Sometimes we get confused between the Brahmana status and how many are qualified. When we want to do worship for the deities, we are looking for the Brahmana only qualified to do worship for the deities. Whereas the Vaishnava, already initiated devotees, they’re very pure, chanting, following all the religious principles. Whereas one Brahmana says sometimes we lack this discipline. How do we look into this kind of situation? Ordinary Vaishnava, first-initiated devotees, are they qualified to worship the deities? Or they’re very pure in everything? Or do we need to get Brahmana status?
Yeah. So maybe there’s a confusion of terminology. Yes, we call it Brahmana dikṣā , but technically it’s not because you’re a Brahmana that you worship the deities, it’s because you’re a Vaishnava, with a Vaishnava mantra, the Krishna mantra that you get. If you simply got the Brahmana mantra, which is the Brahma-gayatri, but you didn’t have the Krishna mantra, you would not be allowed to worship the deity. There’s so many Brahmanas here in KL (Kulalumpur) probably, they don’t have the Krishna mantra, we’re not going to allow them to worship the deity. So, it’s because they got the Krishna mantra. If they have the Krishna mantra and they don’t have the Brahma-gayatri , technically they should be qualified to worship the deity, if they’re not in Gaudiya Sampradaya, in our Sampradaya. But of course in ISKON we generally get both.
So, it’s not because you’re a Brahmana, it’s because you got the dikṣā mantra. So this is a pancharatric rule for deity worship. That you should get, worship the deity with the pancharatric secret dikṣā mantra [Laughs]. That qualifies you to worship the deity. As I said, Panchasamskara, deity worship is the last thing after you get the mantra.
And so the two things go together.
So, first initiation doesn’t give the mantra, so therefore you’re unqualified to worship the deity. But one should not feel disqualified in one sense, because deity worship is not the main item anyway. Harinama is the main item. That’s the Yuga Dharma.
6.) Maharaj, what about the commitments that a dikṣā Guru makes say Srila Prabhupada says, don’t make me come back. Because dikṣā guru is also making commitment to the disciple for taking him back home back to godhead.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs] Some gurus maybe. Do all gurus say that?
Devotee : No. …
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : [Laughs] Well, I don’t know, actually I haven’t heard any guru say that, actually.
Devotee : Never heard, never heard?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : No, but anyway, the statement itself maybe cannot be taken literally, at least in this lifetime. Then definitely there is a sense of responsibility that a guru is responsible for his disciple. And as long as that relationship lasts, then yes, he’s responsible, which is also eternal. So these relationships are spiritual, they’re also eternal. So in that sense, yes, at the same time, we should not think that he has to come personally, because guru is one, and Krishna could assign anybody in the future to take up that same role. So in that sense, the job is done as well. So it’s not necessary he has to come personally or whatever like that. So he doesn’t have to take up the role.
But there is a sense of responsibility. And for that reason, in Hari Bhakti vilas it says, therefore the dikṣā guru should not accept too many disciples because then he has too much responsibility. And that if they make a mistake, he suffers part of their karma. But, he also says, the same is true not just for a guru, but the husband for the wife. So if the wife commits a mistake, the husband has to suffer also [Laughs]. So it’s not just a speciality of a guru and his disciple, or even a dikṣā guru. There could be a sikṣā guru and his disciple also or he says, even a Purohit, and his, not even a Vaishnava, some Purohit teaching his mantras to his student, the student does something wrong, he is responsible also. A king for his citizens, or the king for his ministers is also responsible. So it’s because of the responsibility that you are bound to the disciple. Or in that case, to the minister [Laughs] to the king or whatever, like that.
7.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, thank you very much for the wonderful class. Maharaj, people have responsibility. Thus Siksha guru also has responsibility to deliver the disciples back home, back to godhead.
He is responsible for giving the teachings to his maximum. That’s all he can do. The same for the dikṣā guru, he may say many things, but what can he do? He gives the mantra. And he gives as much teaching as he can. What else can he do? If he is like Narada Muni, and has Prema, perhaps he can accept him. And then he can get Prema. If you like that [Laughs].
But most people are not like that. They don’t get Kripa Siddhi. It can happen. Kripa Siddhi is there, but it’s very rare.
[Some discussion – Not clear]
Devotee: The connection between the dikṣā guru and the disciple and the connection between the Siksha guru and the person is not same right ? The responsibility, commitment etc ?
It would depend on the disciple, it would depend on the guru. Some dikṣā gurus have many disciples, and they can’t even take care of them. So how can they be responsible for all of them? In general, like even in the material world, you can establish a relationship with maximum of 20 people. Beyond that, it gets a little bit, you know [Laughs], formal and whatever. A hundred people, you can’t really keep a relationship like that. Maybe 15-20 people maximum.
That’s why in cell-preaching, they don’t go over 20. Because then they can’t really relate to the individuals in the group. So they break them up into two groups and have 10-10 [Laughs]. That’s cell-preaching strategy. So, therefore, responsibility, therefore, for bigger groups is very difficult. So if you have smaller groups of sikṣā or dikṣā , they’re fine. They can take care of them and be responsible for them more. When you get more, it’s very difficult. You can say you’re responsible, but how do you take care of them?
8.) Maharaj, I didn’t expect to hear what you would say. But I just was thinking about this incident of Bali Maharaj. So for Bali Maharaj, it’s not clear who was his guru. Because apparently the dikṣā guru, I think, led him astray. And then I don’t see that there is any sikṣā guru which is related by Bali Maharaj. At least I don’t know. But still, he managed to get Krishna. So how is that?
[Laughs] So, yeah. As I said, in the Bhagavatam, we don’t see much about the dikṣā guru. Did Narada Muni have a dikṣā guru? Did Vyasadeva have a dikṣā guru?
Devotee : I don’t know.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : [Laughs]. Did the Pandavas have a dikṣā guru? They had a purohit. But I don’t know whether he was a Vaishnava dikṣā guru. So this idea of Vaishnava dikṣā guru is a more recent type of thing. But they did have teachers. And that’s what’s carried on in the Bhagavatam. It’s all teaching. Dikṣā , who was your dikṣā guru [Laughs]? They got teaching from this person, that’s all. So it looks like they emphasized the teaching more than anything else. And of course, as they get mercy, that’s another factor.
Mercy of another person. So, I guess they didn’t consider it important if he had a dikṣā guru or not. Even Prahlada he did not have dikṣā guru. He got teaching in the home from Narada Muni because he heard from his mother that he was getting taught. So he got sikṣā.
Dhruva got a mantra from Narada Muni. So there’s a definite dikṣā there [Laughs].
Devotee : Who is the Sikṣā Guru ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Who? Sikṣā guru, I don’t know. Probably somebody.
Devotee : Prahlada maharaj was sikṣā guru for Bali maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : You know?
Devotee : He was grandfather.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : His grandfather [Laughs] was Prahlada’s. But he became a demon also you know. So, I think it’s also a mercy case.
9.) Maharaj, Srila Prabhupada has said that, one should not become a guru unless he’s an Uttama adhikari. And also, a disciple should be carefully choosing for a guru who is an Uttama adhikari. Normally, a neophyte person, we do not know, we do not know for sure who is an Uttama adhikari guru. At least in the world. So, how does that play into reality? This is also apply for the sikṣā guru as well ?
Yes, it would. So, the one confusion is what is the Uttama adhikari. So, there are two distinct definitions. Maybe it’s three, but two are the primary ones. One is in 11th Canto.
And that’s Uttama adhikari is one in Prema, like the Gopis [Laughs] or Narada muni. And Madhyama adhikari, is the regular devotee doing sadhana. And the Kanishta is not a real devotee at all. He’s the one who sits in the temple and worships, but doesn’t have any knowledge, doesn’t respect devotees at all, so he’s not, he’s a half Vaishnava. So, the Madhyama is a real Vaishnava, gets teachings from the devotees, practices pure bhakti, sadhana, all the way into Bhava. And then the Uttama is beyond that. Upper Bhava and Prema.
There’s another definition given in Nectar of Devotion. That is a definition given for Vaidhi Sadhana Bhakti. In which, the Kanishta is one who has very little knowledge and weak faith. The Madhyama has little more knowledge and has kind of steady faith, but he cannot defeat opponents or answer when people ask questions. The Uttama, as written by Vaidhi bhakti, sadhana Bhakti, is one who has profound knowledge of scripture and deep faith in the scripture. And can logically explain the scriptures. So he can convince people. So that’s an Uttama. But he’s within Sadhana. So the Uttama is quite different from the other Uttama in Prema [Laughs].
So which one is Prabhupada mean? We don’t know. But then Prabhupada says, even if he’s not an Uttama, he could be a Guru also. It’s not the best, but he could be a Guru also. It’s obviously better. We always have one who’s higher than one who’s lower, obviously. One with more realization is better than one who’s lower. But the problem with the Uttama also is, in the higher stage, that is, Bhava or Prema is generally very rare. And they may not be available in some lifetimes. So then you don’t get a Guru at all if you’re looking for that person. Secondly, you may not know who they are. Because they don’t advertise themselves. They’re completely absorbed in their Samadhi [Laughs]. And then they look like a beggar on the street. Like we see with Vamsi das Babaji. Nobody thought he was an advanced devotee, because he was just walking around and looked like a beggar or something like that. Rolling around in the dust.
Devotee : or simply they dont preach.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : No, they don’t preach. So then, of course, that’s the other thing. They don’t preach because they see everything’s in Prema already. So why do I have to preach to anybody? Everybody’s better than me. Everybody’s got Prema. Even the demons have Prema. So they may not even preach. So it’s rare, that type of Uttama.
The other type of Uttama who’s doing sadhana bhakti, in all the scriptures, yes he’s a good preacher. But in Madhurya Kadambani, there, Vishvanatha Chakravarti says, it’s the Madhyama adhikari who makes the ideal giver of mercy. Because he makes differences. He sees differences in the demon, avoids them. He sees the devotees, preaches to them. Preaches to the innocent. So he’s the ideal preacher. The big, ideal guru in one sense, Madhyama adhikari.
10.) Thank you, Krishna Maharaj. I would like to ask, the Guru Puja that you do in ISKCON in the morning, right? Is it specifically for the founder Acharya Srila Prabhupada or is it for the Guru tattva? Or Is it a diksha Guru ? I mean, on our level, what do you mean? Yes.
Yeah, it was established in Prabhupada’s time for Prabhupada. That’s how it was established. Later on, they did it for other gurus, but then they didn’t. Afterwards, they abolished that in the temples. You can do it in personally in your house or whatever. Some temples, they were doing it. They do it here still privately.
Devotee : So therefore, it is appropriate that as disciples, we should worship our Guru’s deity, but it should be done privately as a…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, you can do that.
11.) Maharaj, in the case of Lord Brahma, can we say that Krishna was his sikṣā and dikṣā Guru?
Well, of course, in one sense. He got a mantra in Brahma Samhita. He got a mantra [Laughs] from Krishna, so that he was the dikṣā Guru also. But I don’t know if that’s… It’s not the same mantra we hear, so I don’t know what mantra he got.
11.) Just one question to Maharaj. Regarding sikṣā Guru.. because I know this in India, if you can clarify it to me. They have kind of established in many temples, they kind of become partially sikṣā Guru. The temple president becomes the sikṣā Guru, I have seen it. In few places..
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Already? [Laughs]
Devotee : Even the doctors, because they get the knowledge from him, they cannot do anything if you don’t ask him. Even after they get initiation, they still must keep them as the sikṣā Guru. It’s kind of compulsory. May i know there is such a system in India, or that it was already there in India?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : I don’t know about it, so it’s not compulsory, but maybe some temples do it. I don’t know. But again, like even dikṣā Guru, like sikṣā Guru, should not be automatic. It’s also voluntary in one sense. It’s not you can just make somebody be your sikṣā Guru, but you have to take sikṣā Guru from me, or whatever like that. Yes, you can do that function in one sense, but you may not be inspired to take them as a sikṣā Guru that you’re going to worship like the dikṣā Guru. On that level of Krishna, so to speak. You may want to take another sikṣā Guru.
Devotee : They don’t allow that..
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Oh, that’s weird. That’s a little bit systematic [Laughs]. New system.
12.) Maharaj, technically a person that’s in his own realm takes sikṣā from Gurus, if I know anyone Guru, and never gets to the dikṣā process, and he’s chanting, that person has a chance to get prema, because if they are receiving the teaching with devotion from the sikṣā Guru.
Maybe the Pancharatric scripture, it would say, you go to hell, or something like that, Pancharatra. But in Caitanya Caritamrta says, simply by chanting the holy name, you get prema [Laughs]. Don’t talk about dikṣā or anything [Laughs]. But my qualification is that sikṣā we do need some knowledge. Like, Ajamila chanted the holy name, he didn’t get prema. But, after he recovered, and went to Haridwar, he got knowledge, he chanted purely, then he got prema and went to Vaikuntha.
13.) One more question Maharaj. Lets say if we are going to take sikṣā, Is It etiquette that you should inform the dikṣā guru, like in the case of Bhaktivinoda thakur.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Generally you inform. I don’t think Bhaktivinoda thakur did inform, but anyway. The etiquette, like in Krishna Bhajanamrta, is you would inform. If you have dikṣā already, taking sikṣā Guru, then you should inform. It was probably necessary previously, because they didn’t have any organizations. So, they didn’t know who was bona fide [Laughs]. So maybe the dikṣā Guru did know who was bonafide, who wasn’t bonafide, as a good Vaishnava. So then consult him, so he’s a recognized, you know, Gaudiya, or whatever like that. So let the system of safeguarding get him from the right person, not from apa sampradaya or something like that. But within ISKCON, that doesn’t really hold so much, because they’re all practicing pure Bhakti so..
14.) Maharaj, in ISKCON, we have many sikṣā Gurus. So we’re always encouraged that way. So do we have to formally tell the person that you are my sikṣā Guru in order to get the benefit of the initiation?
Well, you wouldn’t have to. If you can get benefit from that and get inspiration, fine, it’s not a problem then..
Devotee : Can I call that person Guru Maharaj ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : I guess so, yeah. Which makes it a very simple process [Laughs]. You don’t have to go through examinations, this and whatever like that [Laughs]. No approvals process at all [Laughs]. It’s the easier process. But whatever you can get inspiration from, it’s good. You get pure inspiration in teachings. That’s very good.
Devotee : Knowledge, purity and realization is important for a Guru.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yes. Whether it’s a sikṣā Guru or a dikṣā Guru, it’s important in any case.
Devotees: HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj Ki.. Jai !! Srila Prabhupad Ki.. Jai !!