Harinama Cintamani – Part 4 – by HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj @ ISKCON Japan on Feb 8, 2021
Translator devotee : Hare Krishna Maharaj. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai.
Devotees (together): Jai
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Okay, so I think we finished up the Vaishnava Ninda, yeah?
Devotee : Yes.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Okay, so after that I have to [not clear] disrespect your guru, guror avajñā … Today…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : This is the second half of the first file.
Translator devotee : This is the…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : I think that’s the second file, the… Unless you want to go through the regular order, but I stuck the two together because the guror avajñā and that one are kind of similar, you know?
Translator devotee :Yes, yes, yes.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : But in your file is it separate? I don’t know.
Translator devotee :No, after this one.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Okay, so we can do that. It’s not a problem. I’ll just load the other file.
Translator devotee : Yes. I don’t have that slide, this.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : But where do you have guror avajñā?
Translator devotee : Guror avajñā?
Devotee : We didn’t cover last time.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : We just did the first one, which was… No, we didn’t cover guror avajñā.
Translator devotee : Oh, I didn’t have the slide, this guror avajñā.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Not at all? No, it was part of the first file, actually.
Translator devotee : Really?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah.
Translator devotee : Let me check.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj :From page… From number 26 onwards.
Translator devotee : Just a second, please.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Go halfway through that file, slide number 27.
Translator devotee : Oh, here. Yes. Yes, I have.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : okay. Yeah. No, after that.
Translator devotee : Yes.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yes. So I put these together, even though it’s number three. I put them together because it’s more or less both Vaishnava Aparadha. So that’s a category.
Translator devotee : Yes. Yes.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So we have this disrespect to the Guru. There’s two types of Gurus. One is the Mantra Guru, or the Diksa Guru. And the other is the Siksha Guru, who gives knowledge. So the Mantra Guru here, the Mantra does not mean Hare Krishna Mantra. This means the mantras you get at second initiation, which are not chanted loudly. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he went to Gaya, and he met his Guru, Ishvara Puri, and then he got mantra from him. So that was a secret mantra of Krishna Mantra, so that was his initiation.
So Hare Krishna and other names of the Lord are not secret, you can chant them out loud.
So sometimes we talk about getting initiation into Hare Krishna, but actually there is no such thing, scripturally speaking.
Translator devotee : Excuse me.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Sometimes we talk about initiation into Hare Krishna, but actually that doesn’t mean Diksha itself, because everybody is already chanting it. So previous to Lord Caitanya, Bhakti consisted largely of deity worship and for that, the mantras are necessary. When Lord Caitanya appeared, he put more stress upon sadhana through chanting Hare Krishna. So in that sense, the Diksha Guru becomes less important.
We don’t need Diksha, and therefore we don’t need Diksha Guru for chanting Hare Krishna. We do need teachings, knowledge. We can’t get Prema unless we have Suddha-nama, we can’t get Suddha-nama unless we get knowledge in Siksha. So therefore it does not require Diksha to chant Hare Krishna and get the Siksha, but at least we do need the Siksha, so we should accept Siksha guru when we are chanting.
So what’s the qualification of a Guru? So there may be many different characteristics, but the main quality is he has surrendered to Krishna. We should not look at whether he is Brahmana, Sudra, Grhastha, Sannyasi, etc. The only distinction we make in terms of ashram is if you’re going to take sannyasa, you should take sannyasa from a sannyasi. So you can take only one Diksha Guru, but you can have many Siksha Gurus. So the Diksha Guru is only one, because once you get mantra then you know who to worship.
So you should only worship one deity, you shouldn’t go around trying to worship many deities, so you take one Diksha Guru and then you take that mantra and you chant that mantra and meditate on that deity and use that for deity worship. So the Diksha Guru should have knowledge also, he should know the Sampradaya’s teachings, etc., and he should have proper conduct of a Vaishnava. So the Diksha Guru gives you Krishna Mantra, so he would have to get Krishna Mantra from his Guru. So he has a Guru Parampara system there.
So next slide, the Siksha Guru, you can have many Siksha Gurus. One Guru may be a specialist in Sandarbha, another may be a specialist in Bhagavatam, another may be a specialist in deity worship.
Translator devotee : Sandarbha, deity worship and ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Bhagavatam, oh many things.[Laughs]
So of course anyone who is preaching and spreading the holy name can be considered a Siksha Guru also. If we’re getting some valuable information from a particular Guru, then that would considered to be like an important Siksa Guru, and we have to give him equal worship as the Diksha Guru.
So next. So we also have a special Siksha Guru, that’s the founder Acharya. Of course we have Madhva Sampradaya, we have Madhvacharya there, and then we have Lord Caitanya as the Gaudiya Madhva Sampradaya. But then we also have Srila Prabhupada as the ISKCON faction, he’s the founder Acharya. But these founder Acharyas get more respect than any of the other Diksha Gurus or Siksha Gurus. So everyone in the group, Sampradaya, has to follow those founders’ instructions and not accept teachings outside.
So according to the scripture, you have to give equal respect to the Siksha Guru and the Diksha Guru. Because they’re both considered to be dear servants to Krishna. So one should serve both of them with great devotion. In deity worship, when we worship the deity before worshipping the deity, we have to worship the guru and get permission from him.
Next. Okay, so how do we respect the guru, the Siksha Guru or the Diksha Guru? We should respect them, and we have to do service to them. So we show respect by not stepping on his asana, or his bed, or his shoes, or his water, or shadow, etc. Of course, one can offer pranamas, that is, obeisances on the ground. When you mention his name, you have to utter the name with respect. One should follow his instructions.
Next. So there are cases where we’re supposed to respect the guru, but there are some cases where you have to reject the guru. Sometimes a guru, by bad association, will lose his qualification. He commits Nama aparadha. He loses his knowledge. He becomes hostile to Vaishnavas. He loses a taste for the holy name. He develops a desire for wealth and women. So if that person no longer is a real Vaishnava, and he cannot change, then one has to reject him as a guru. And one has to accept another guru. If the disciple doesn’t reject him, and he’s very attached to him, then he will end up in the same position, fallen. Therefore one should very carefully choose a guru, so that this doesn’t happen, that we choose an unqualified person who falls from the guru [not audible].
So we have to respect the guru. Sometimes we have to reject the guru if he’s unqualified, but generally we respect the guru. But if we don’t respect him, even though he’s qualified, or we reject the guru or disobey him, then this is this guror avajñā. If we somehow disrespect the guru, then this is an aparadha, it becomes an obstacle to our bhakti. So one commits this offense usually if one has bad association, reads false literature.
So if we commit the offense of disobeying the guru, disrespecting him, then how do we correct it? So we need a remedy.
Translator devotee : If we cannot correct guru.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : What’s that? Oh, there’s another one in here. No
Translator devotee : This is already done.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah
Translator devotee : This is the aparadha.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah
Translator devotee : If qualified guru reject.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Then that’s the offense. Okay, next.
Yeah, so what is the remedy? We have to ask for forgiveness. Repent.
Okay, next is the… Next, okay. This is disrespect to the lord, considering the lord to be like Devatas. That’s the next one. Next one. So, next one. So, we take Vishnu or Krishna, they’re all one, or Bhagavan, as the highest independent person. Of course, we also accept Krishna as being higher than the other forms of the lord, because he has four extra qualities. So, all of these forms are eternal. They have eternal forms or eternal bodies. They don’t have material bodies.
Next. Okay. So, Shiva is not a jiva, a little particle of consciousness. He is a form of the lord, but he doesn’t manifest as many qualities as Vishnu. He has five less qualities. So, he’s not a jiva, but we don’t classify him as Vishnu also. One of his functions is to destroy the material world. Another function is he’s in charge of Tamoguna and ahankara. So, therefore, we should not equate Vishnu with Shiva, even though Shiva is not a jiva.
Next. Now, the jivas are quite different. They can only manifest 50 qualities in a small degree. Devatas, can manifest 50 qualities with a little more quantity.
So, all of these jivas, whether they’re Devatas or not Devatas, they are servants of Vishnu. But the jivas in the material world, they have material bodies. So, therefore, on Svarga Loka, Indra and the other Devatas, they have material bodies. So, the jivas are quite different. Sometimes, a jiva can also take the position of a Shiva in a particular universe. But jivas do not take the position of Vishnu.
Okay. Next. So, one offense is to consider that Vishnu’s name and his form and his qualities are all different. Actually, Vishnu and his name are non-different. Another is to equate Vishnu with the Devatas who have material bodies.
Translator devotee : Another ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Another offense, if we equate Vishnu, we think he’s just equal to the Devatas who have material bodies. Though the, not only the forms are considered equal but they will consider Vishnu’s name is more different from Durga’s name or Shiva’s name or Ganesha’s name, this is offense.
Next. So, one may think that Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, Ganesha, Surya, etc., they’re all just jivas. Another mistake is to think that you should worship different Devatas to get benediction that Vishnu could not give.
Next. Next. And then next. Okay. So, another mistake is somehow we can worship Devatas, and because they are servants of Vishnu, we don’t have to worship Vishnu.
So, if we do that, then we’re actually neglecting the worship of Vishnu. Next. And then another mistake is to think that only Brahman is real and all the forms, Shiva, Ganesha, Vishnu, Durga, are all material and illusory. Next. So, there is, in India, they do have this, we call the Pancopasana, worship these five forms of Shiva, Durga, Ganesha, Surya, and Vishnu, as a temporary means to concentrate the mind. And then, finally, we give them up because they’re material and we enter into Brahman.
Next. Okay. So, what is our Siddhanta? Of course, Vishnu can be impersonal, like Brahman, but he is also personal. And Vishnu, his name, his qualities, and activities, they’re all one. We cannot separate them. They’re all spiritual. By chanting the name of the Supreme Lord, then we can realize his form, qualities, and his activities.
Next. So, this idea of God being impersonal and personal, this is an aspect of acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, difference and non-difference. Next. So, the name, the form, the qualities, and the activities are all, we say, one, we cannot differentiate them, so therefore we can’t say the name is material. It’s part of Krishna, spiritual.
Next. So, the name also, within it, has the form, qualities, and activities of Krishna. Next. So, by chanting the name, we can realize the form of Krishna, qualities of Krishna, and pastimes of Krishna.
Next. So, what is the proper conduct? We worship only Vishnu, but we can offer the remnants of Vishnu Prasada to Devatas, Pitrs, or anyone else. So, we have faith that if we worship Vishnu, all the Devatas are satisfied. Vishnu has all power, Devatas are dependent on him.
Next. Next. Okay. So, we perform duties of Varnashrama to support the body and family. In there, there’s also some rules to worship Devatas, etc., but rather we avoid that, and we worship Vishnu or Krishna.
Translator devotee : We avoid?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah, of the worship of Devatas. So, if someone offers food directly to Devatas, we should not eat that prasadam. However, if we have this offering made to Vishnu or Krishna, we can offer that Prasada to the Devatas. So, the devotee does not criticize the Devatas or the scriptures that glorify them.
Next. This is because the Devatas are servants of Vishnu, so we respect them as Vaishnavas. Next. So, if we commit this offense, then we should repent for it, and we should try to get proper knowledge, understand the real position of Vishnu. And we should chant the holy name. Okay Hare Krishna.
Q & A
1)Translator devotee : We should respect ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Devatas as servants of the Lord.
Translator devotee : Means u said as Vaishnavas.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah. They are Vaishnavas, and so we respect Vaishnavas.
Translator devotee : But we worship Vaishnava also, Krishna is pleased more than directly worshiping Krishna.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah. But we don’t worship the Vaishnavas or the Devatas separately, and thinking they give something that Krishna cannot give. And we respect them by offering Krishna Prasada to them.
2) We should not worship as Guru..
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : As?
Translator devotee : As Guru.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : As Guru?
Translator devotee : We should not worship the Devata as Guru.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : As Gurus? Well, as long as we worship them as Vaishnavas, Vaishnavas can be Gurus, but we understand that they’re not independent of or superior to Krishna, that’s all. And we offer them Krishna Prasada [not clear].
So, Brahma is the head of our Sampradaya, so he’s a Guru.
3) Practically, we never worship Brahma.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : We worship Shiva as the best Vaishnava.
Translator Devotee : We do some puja. For? We do. Like in the Gaudiya Math temple, they have the Shiva Linga. They worship Shiva as a Vaishnava or as a protector of the Holy dhama. But ISKCON never does that.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Not so much, no. Not introduced in our society.
Anything else? Ok.
4) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj, what about Sadashiva? Because Shiva can be Jiva. But if we say Sadashiva, he is always in the spiritual world.
Yeah, so that Shiva never is a Jiva. Sometimes the Shivas in the material world, Jiva takes the post, but not in the spiritual world.
5) Shiva in the material world, is he expansion of Sadashiva or independent?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah.
Devotee : Oh, ok. But he can be Jiva. In the material world, Jiva can be.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Sometimes.
Devotee : So, that Jiva will be like Shakti avesha Avatar or like normal Jiva?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Normal Jiva.
6) I have a question, Maharaj. I see on YouTube, another seminar about Guru. You mentioned different quotations from Prabhupada and Sastra. Then some quotation, first initiation is more important. The second…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah, so Prabhupada made both statements.
Devotee : Then, that’s quite interesting. Then actually the initiation means if one takes seriously the acceptance of the…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yes, that’s initiation. It’s the internal type of thing. So that’s kind of an expansion of the word Diksha into a larger meaning of so many things. Which includes Siksha and mentally accepting and surrendering, etc. But it’s a little confusing also. So therefore, that’s why we should go back to the scriptural definition of Diksha, meaning giving mantra. So that’s the scriptural one. So therefore, Prabhupada also said second initiation is real initiation because of that. However, we take chanting Hare Krishna is more important. So therefore, when you get introduced to Hare Krishna, that’s kind of like initiation is more important. So therefore, we say first initiation is more important.
Devotee : That final conclusion?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah, in one sense. Of course, it’s not initiation in one sense, but it’s more important than initiation. So in one sense, Siksha is more important than Diksha you can say that also. [Laughs]
Devotee : And Diksha has more formal things.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Well, Diksha is ultimately, you know, it has such a wide variety of meanings for Prabhupada. But when we go to scripture, it actually just means getting that mantra. Or worshipping the deity.
Devotee : More important than the internal.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Ultimately, yes. Internal acceptance and chanting Hare Krishna is more important. And then we get the teachings to go with it. Otherwise, we don’t have the teachings and we have Nama abhasa.
7) Why first initiation is important ?
Well because you follow vows etc and you may get, you get Siksha and everything like that. So its more like Siksha and we are obviously chanting Hare Krishna enthusiastically so actually chanting Hare Krishna is more important than deity worship.
8) Dandavat pranam Maharaj. Please accept my humble obeisances. As a Vaishnava are we allowed to enter demigods temple even for respect or we should not even go there.
Oh yeah Lord Caitanya did that. We can respect them as Vaishnavas.
Devotee : Because there are even in so many temples in Japan, sometimes we go there just to pay respects. Is it okay for us?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yes, you can respect them as Vaishnavas. If it is Buddha, he is actually a Shaktiavesha Avatar.
Devotee : Thank you very much, Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Hare Krishna.
9) What about Osaisen?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : What’s that?
Devotee : Osaisen.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : What’s that?
Devotee : Osaisen – donation for that the custom If we go to a temple or a shrine.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Ohh [Laughs] I don’t know. Donations from Devatas.
Devotee : Should we not?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Well, like we give donations to Vaishnavas.
Devotee : Okay.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : As long as we understand they are not independent.
Devotee : But we don’t know how they use.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : That’s true. Okay.
Devotee : Hare Krishna Maharaj. Tomorrow can we have class? Tuesday yeah, Wednesday I can’t.
Devotee : Okay.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Wednesday, Thursday, Friday I cannot.
Devotee : So tomorrow we will have class Maharaj, same time?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah.