Rasa part 4 By HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON JAPAN | Dec 7, 2021
We’ve been discussing one part of that, that is the Vibhava. So basically, that is Krishna and the devotee. Okay, so they’re essential to start having a relationship between two people.
So Rupa Goswami has described Krishna a lot, all the different aspects of Krishna. Okay, so the other parts, Anubhava, Sattvika bhava, and Vyabhichari bhava, I won’t discuss now, maybe a little bit later. So what I want to talk about now is the Sthayi bhava.
This means the…probably fixed emotional relationship. Yeah, of course, we do have other emotions, but they may be temporary, these are called the Vyabhichari Bhavas. So the Sthayi bhava is very important because that’s the main relationship we have with Krishna. Okay, so we’ll talk a little bit now about the Sthayi bhava.
Okay, so there are five main Sthayi bhavas. Sometimes a person may have a mixture of two of them. But often it will be only one of these. So they are called Sudha, Prithi, Sakya, Vatsala, and Priyada. So that’s the equivalent of what we call Santa, Dasya, Sakhya, Vatsalya, and Madhurya, these are the names given to them. So they have distinctive qualities that make them different from each other. It is all positive and a feeling of love, but it becomes different in different people. Just as the sun, when it goes through a clear crystal, it may show different colors. So the Lord’s, Hladini and Samvit Shaktis, when they appear in different people, they manifest in different ways.
Okay. So the first one, which was the Sudha one, has several varieties, but it’s called Samanya, which means very general type of relationship. And this is manifested in ordinary people and in small…very small children. So they have a relationship with Krishna, but it is not very specific. We see that small children, they don’t develop very distinct emotions, it’s either like or dislike [Laughs].
So and then ordinary people, for instance, when Krishna is traveling on the roads outside of Dwarka and He meets people from the various provinces to see Him on the road, these are the general people, so they have a very general relationship with Krishna.
So in Vrindavan, we have some very small children, let’s say they are three years old and Krishna is eight years old. So the children are attracted to Krishna, but it hasn’t manifested as Dasya or Sakhya or Vatsalya or Madhurya.
Another is called Svaccha, which means clear. So a person will manifest temporary, different temporary ratis, different bhavas, but very temporarily. In association with some people he may manifest a little Sakhya, in association with other people, he will manifest some Madhurya [Laughs]. So this one little verse here gives an example of a Brahmana.
So sometimes he praised Krishna as a master, sometimes he joked with Him as a friend, sometimes protected Him like a son, sometimes craved Him like a lover, so He manifested [Laughs] Dasya, Sakhya, Vatsalya, Madhurya at different times and sometimes Santa. So this is an example of one Brahmana. Sometimes he would manifest Sakhya, Dasya, Vatsalya or Santa or whatever at different times.
Okay, so if a person has some of this atma Jnana influence, that is he’s got some influence of Jnana in him, but also he has an attraction for the Lord, but no possessiveness, so this becomes Santa rati. He’s more attracted to the Lord in the form of Paramatma. We know that with Paramatma there’s not much of a relationship.
So this is an example of that. So this is an example of one of the Kumaras, Sanaka Kumara, so they were jnanis. So when Narada Muni sang on his Veena, then Sanaka began to tremble. He had some ecstatic symptoms, even though he was a Jnani, some sort of rasa arising.
So when the Santa rati becomes Santa rasa, then we’ll have the Sattvika bhavas, etc., manifesting. So this trembling is called a Sattvika bhava or ecstatic symptom. So that first Santa rati was you can say neutral, not much service to the Lord there.
So in the other ones, that is the Dasya, Sakya, Vatsalya, there is more friendliness towards the Lord, more possessiveness of the Lord. Sometimes they may be pure or they may be mixed with other bhavas.
So if a person feels himself inferior to the Lord, they become the recipients of His mercy.
So this is called Priti rati or we call it Dasya rati [Laughs]. So there is attachment to the object of worship, which may be Krishna or Vishnu or some other form. And the devotee longs for the mercy of the Lord.
Other devotees feel themselves equal to the Lord. This is Sakhya or friendship. So there is more familiarity because one does not feel inferior. And one may laugh and joke with Krishna. Of course we don’t see this relationship with other forms of the Lord, only with Krishna. So with Vishnu, the relationship would be Dasya, so nobody jokes with Vishnu [Laughs].
Others feel themselves superior to Krishna. So Krishna worships them. They are the elder of Krishna. So this is the Vatsalya. So they give mercy to Krishna. This is the opposite of Dasya where the devotee feels that Krishna gives mercy to him [Laughs].
So in Vatsalya, Yasoda gives mercy to Krishna. She will do things for Krishna and Krishna will receive from her. So we see that Nanda Maharaj blesses Krishna. Mother Yasoda cares for Krishna, dresses Him, bathes Him, etc., and Krishna accepts all of that.
Okay, so the fifth one is the…that what we call the Madhurya-rasa, that is the relationship between the Gopis and Krishna.
Okay…So how does this particular rati or bhava arise? So Rupa Goswami explains it comes from a previous lifetime. We had some taste in a previous lifetime that continues in this lifetime. If we don’t have any particular taste in this lifetime, we can develop a taste in this lifetime and this will manifest in the next lifetime [Laughs].
And one can identify which taste one has by looking at the scriptures. And certain things will stimulate one’s attraction and other things won’t. So in this way a person can determine which attraction he has, which rati. Okay so these are the primary ratis or Sthayi bhavas.
Now there are some secondary Sthayi bhavas also. So there are seven of these. Rupa Goswami actually says they are not really…. they don’t turn into rasa actually, he says. But because Bharat Muni, who is the dramatist, he calls them ratis and rasas, he also classifies. He says actually they’re just temporary emotions, Vyabhichari bhavas.
Translator Translator devotee: So the five ratis can develop into rasas, but these ones cannot.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, he says they’re actually Vyabhicari bhavas, temporary emotions [Laughs]. But when these Vyabhicari bhavas last for a little longer, then they’re called secondary ratis and rasas. Of course, in the material rasa of Bharat Muni, the secondary rasas are actually sometimes more prominent and more permanent than the primary rasas [Laughs]. In the spiritual world, everything is based on love. So the five primary rasas are based on love.
And the seven secondary rasas will arise only in relation to those relationships, the five primary ones. But in the material world, the secondary rasas are not really secondary, they can operate independently of the other five. So in other words, some people may not have any primary rasa, they may have only secondary rasas [Laughs], they may only have anger or fear or something like that you know. So therefore, in the spiritual world, the rasas operate a little differently. Okay so anyway, sometimes in the spiritual world also, in relation to Krishna, the secondary rasas will manifest in devotees.
So one of them is called hasa, or comedy, laughing. So, but it’s based upon the principle Sthayi bhavas. In other words, because we have affectionate relationship with Krishna, then we may have a joke with Krishna. If we don’t have an affectionate relationship with Krishna, if we joke, it may not be very funny at all because it’s more like sarcasm [Laughs].
Okay, so the secondary bhavas may manifest in devotees, such as Mother Yasoda may experience fear for Krishna or anger because Krishna has broken the yogurt pot, etc [Laughs]. But in demons, the secondary rasas will manifest without the primary rasa. In other words, Kamsa has anger or fear towards Krishna, but he doesn’t have any positive rasa with Krishna at all. So, it’s not a real secondary rasa in our terms, that type of rasa. So, in one devotee, he will have one of the five primaries, and then the seven secondary things will manifest temporarily. So, all together, eight bhavas will manifest.
So the seven secondary ones are listed. Here we have haasa, or humor. We see the devotees often joke with Krishna, or they may make funny faces or funny gestures [Laughs]. Another is Vismaya, astonishment. Another is Utsaha, which we say is fortitude or bravery [Laughs]. Another is Soka, lamentation. Another is anger. Another is fear. Another is jugupsa, or disgust or hatred.
Of course, we can say, well, how can anger be a spiritual bhava? How do you become angry at Krishna [Laughs]? So sometimes it’s not at Krishna, that the devotee will be angry at a demon, because the demon is attacking Krishna, so that’s the anger of a devotee.
But in some rasas, we will see that anger can manifest towards Krishna also. It won’t manifest in Santa or Dasya. But for Sakhya, sometimes, a friend may be angry at Krishna.
Why did You do that [Laughs]? Or we see mother Yasoda angry at Krishna because He breaks the yogurt pot. Or the Gopis become angry at Krishna because He disappears in the rasa lila [Laughs]. So these displays of anger are not real anger as we know it in the material world they’re all based upon love, and they disappear very quickly.
Okay, so here’s the definition of Hasya Rati. It’s a cheerfulness of the heart produced from irregularity of speech, dress, or actions. So if somebody speaks in a funny manner, joking, he dresses funnily, or he makes funny gestures, and then people begin to laugh [Laughs]. That’s called Hasya Rati.
So for instance, with the cowherd boys, the main relationship is Sakhya. But then in the forest, they may have a period where there’s a lot of joking. So at that time, the primary rati, the Sakhya, goes weaker, and then the Hasya becomes very strong.
Okay, Vismaya is surprise or astonishment. So, this arises on seeing something very unusual, and then you think, how is that possible [Laughs] ?. And then the eyes may become very wide. So this is, of course, in the material world, we also see this type of emotion. So this, of course, for some people, this is a source of their joy they like to get surprised or astonished by various things.
And in the material world also, we will find this Hasya is very prominent. In fact, we’ll have dramas all about comedy. The whole drama is comedy and laughing [Laughs].
An example of the astonishment is Brahma, when all of the calves and cowherd boys suddenly became Narayana forms. And he became, what is this? What is happening? He became very astonished.
Okay, so the third one is the Utsaha Rati, or enthusiasm, or fortitude, or bravery, etc. The most common one is enthusiasm for battle, which we say is like bravery and heroism. So we see that in Arjuna, in enthusiasm to fight, for instance.
But there’s also enthusiasm to give in charity. For instance, Nanda Maharaj, when Krishna was born, he was enthusiastic to give gifts to all the people. One may be enthusiastic to show compassion. One may be enthusiastic to perform dharma. So with Krishna, for instance, the cowherd boys may show this Ustaha in terms of battle when they wrestle with Krishna. So they show enthusiasm for fighting. So this is directly in relation with Krishna, but there’s no enmity involved. It’s actually in friendship. But then we also show this in relation to killing demons to protect Krishna.
So Soka-Rati is lamentation. So, this is a pain in the heart, when we’re separated from an object of love.
So of course we’ll see when the devotees become separated from Krishna, then there is a Soka-Rati arising.
When Krishna left Vrindavan for Mathura, then everybody in Vrindavan was afflicted by the Soka-Rati for many years [Laughs]. This of course, in the material world also, this is very prominent.
Krodha Rati – anger. When one meets opposition, then the heart becomes very agitated. So the eyes become red, one will frown, one will speak roughly, etc.
So in the spiritual world, as I said, sometimes it may manifest in relation to Krishna, but often in relation to others like demons. Or in Krishna’s pastime, Jatila saw Radha’s pearl necklace on Krishna’s throat. She got very angry at Krishna [Laughs].
Of course, as a demon’s, object of the demon, becomes the object of anger. So when the forest fire was surrounding Krishna and the cowherd boys, then Balarama got very angry. The forest fire was actually Kamsa’s brother who had come to kill Krishna. So this anger is based on Balarama’s love for Krishna.
Bhaya Rati – fear rasa. So the heart becomes very unsteady because of committing offense or seeing something very fearful like an animal or a demon. So one may try to hide, one may try to run away, one will be very confused, etc.
So this may operate in relation to Krishna. For instance, the servants may be afraid of Krishna, they committed offense perhaps, so they get very afraid. So here is an example of Akrura. He became afraid when Krishna asked for the Syamantaka jewel. So Akrura was hiding the jewel under his clothing, but Krishna knew. He asked, where is the jewel [Laughs]? So Akrura’s mouth dried up [Laughs] because of fear. So this of course was based on love, because he had a loving relationship with Krishna. But now he fears he has committed an offense against Krishna. So the devotees may fear the demons.\
So when Vrisāsura, the bull demon, came to Gokula, Yasoda got very afraid because she thought you know the demon is going to attack Krishna. So this fear is based upon her love for Krishna. She fears Krishna’s safety. In the material world usually it’s a little different. We may fear for ourselves [Laughs] that somebody is going to attack us.
Okay so the last one is called Jugupsa, or disgust. So one sees some disgusting thing or person, then the heart becomes a little bit restricted. So one may spit or curl up the lips or utter some very insulting words [Laughs]. So this one, particularly the fear one, is common in the material world, and even in dramas or let’s say modern world movies, we’ll have the fear with horror movies, etc., which combine fear with disgust, so a lot of things like that in the material world become popular forms of entertainment.
Here’s an example of disgust in the devotee. Since my heart has become eager to play at the lotus feet of Krishna as the boat of ever-fresh rasa, when I think of association with women, my mouth curls up in disgust and I spit [Laughs].
So we’re talking about the ratis or the Sthayi bhava. If they don’t combine with the other elements, that is Anu bhava, Sattvika bhava, Vyabhichari bhava, Vibhava, then they just remain as Rati or Sthayi bhava.
Translator devotee: Sthayi bhava and Rati are the same thing ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Sthayi bhava and Rati – Same thing, Yeah. So in spiritual rasa, even the secondary ones like fear and anger, etc., lamentation, they’re actually part of joy or ananda [Laughs]. So this is very different from the material world where they’re quite different, they’re not related at all. Lamentation is simply lamentation is not part of bliss.
So when Krishna left Vrindavan for Mathura, then all of the people of Vrindavan, particularly the gopis, were filled with lamentation, but actually this is part of their bliss [Laughs].
So when the primary and secondary Ratis or Sthayi bhavas combine with the Vibhava, Anu bhava, Sattvika bhava, Vyabhichari bhava, through hearing or contacting Krishna or remembering Krishna, then that becomes the rasa. Okay, with that rasa, the devotee experiences the highest bliss. So in other words, even the secondary rasas will produce that highest bliss.
Okay, so the Vibhava in these Ratis is – Krishna and the devotee, this is the Vibhava. We have the effects of that, such as paralysis, being stunned, these are the sattvika bhavas. And then we have other actions, such as feeding Krishna, for instance, which are the Anu bhavas.
And then we have the minor emotions, such as regret or self-criticism, etc. These are the Vyabhichari bhavas. All these combine together and this produces the rasa.
Yeah, so the Vibhava is the cause, then we get the Sthayi bhava, and then consequently we get the Sattvika bhava, Anu bhava, and Vyabhichari bhavas. And we’ll see that though the Sthayi bhava is constant, the Vibhava is constant, always the same, the Sattvika bhavas, Anu bhavas, Vyabhichari bhavas will always keep changing. So the rasa is always very fresh and new.
So Mahabharata says that you should not analyse these bhavas by material logic. So they are actually acintya – inconceivable.
So this combination of these five elements increases because of these elements. So the Sthayi bhava will increase because of the Sattvika bhavas, Anubhavas, Vyabhichari bhavas, Vibhava, it keeps increasing all the time. So even the Sthayi bhava is permanent, it’s not static, it’s also increasing all the time.
So the example is given as the ocean. So the ocean is nourished by the clouds, which get its water from the ocean ultimately, and then it goes back to the ocean again. Similarly the Sthayi bhava is nourished by the other elements, and then it becomes increased again, and then nourished again.
So the Rati for Krishna is more extraordinary than the rati with the avatars.
So the rasa becomes much deeper with Krishna and the devotees.
So the Rati, the Sthayi bhavas, produce the rasas.
So one is prominent in an individual, one of the primary ones.
And this combines with the seven secondary Ratis, so then we have eight in one person [Laughs].
So we have the primary ones here, and we have the secondary ones there. These are also related to colors [Laughs]. So Santa is white. So I suppose the white color will stimulate the rasa. Dasya is kind of multicolored. Sakhya is orange color. Vatsalya is a type of reddish color. And Madhurya is deep blue, Shyama.
Hasya is very light yellow. Adbhuta, astonishment, is greenish. This Vira, which is courage and bravery etc, is gold in color. The lamentation, karuna rasa, is purple. Anger is dark red. The fear rasa is black [Laughs]. And bibhatsa disgust is blue [Laughs].
The rasas also have avatars [Laughs]. Kapila for Santa rasa. Madhava for Dasya. Upendra, which is Vamana for Sakhya. Narshimadev for vatsalya rasa. Krishna for Madhurya rasa [Laughs].
Balaram for Hasya rasa. Kurma for Adbhuta rasa. Kalki for Virya rasa. Ramachandra for karuna, that is lamentation [Laughs]. Parasuram for anger. Varaha for fear. And Matsya or Mina, Matsya avatar for bibhatsa, disgust. Okay. So in this way, these five elements combine to produce the rasa. Okay, that’s it fine.
Any questions?
Q&A
1) Thank you. I have a question. Does this particular color stimulate a particular rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah.
Devotee: If some devotee sees a particular color, for example, dark blue, Shyama, stimulates rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: But because we’re materialistic, it may not work so well. But in the spiritual world, probably it works very well [Laughs].
Devotee: If seeing the gopi, seeing the rain cloud, then stimulates?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Madhurya rasa [Laughs].
Devotee: Like that?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, of course, its complexion itself is Shyama. So that is a Uddipana. So apart from the color itself, whatever color it is, it would stimulate the rasa anyway. But because dark blue itself is Madhurya, so if it was in the gopis, it will stimulate Madhurya rasa.
Devotee: What about the last one, the avatar, how they meet this?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: I don’t know. He doesn’t really explain how they’re related.
Some are a little bit abstruse. Some are a little obvious, like Kalki for Virya, because He’s holding a sword, you know, in His hand. Or who was it? Parasuram for anger, also because he goes around killing all the kshatriyas. Or Hasya for Balaram is maybe obvious also. Others may be not so obvious [Laughs]. Rama, of course, for a lamentation, because for many years, He’s separated from Sita. So lamentation rasa is there.
Devotee: This is chosen by Rupa Goswami?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: He mentions them. They may be coming from somewhere else.
I don’t think that Bharata Muni in his work identifies avatars, but Rupa Goswami probably has some source for that. But I haven’t seen. He doesn’t mention where it comes from.
But the rasas, I think, come from Bharata Muni…. the colors come from Bharata Muni.
I would think that some are little obvious like red for anger, dark red for anger, black for fear, the hasya, light yellow kind of you know goes together, cheerful color, gold for virya, bravery.
I think even scientifically speaking [Laughs], if you paint a room red and you put a person in it, then their blood pressure will go up [Laughs]. If you have a white room, everybody is very peaceful [Laughs].
Devotee: So white is like a symbol of purity.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, Sattva.
Devotee : Unclear.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: And of course in the avatar, Kapila is obviously santa because He is kind of Jnani Yogi something like that.
Devotee: He is the Jnana Shakti? Shaktyavesha?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, the Kumaras are. But they’re Shaktyavesha. And of course Upendra, I just thought of it. Upendra is the brother of Indra. He is in Sakhya there [Laughs].
As for Vatsalya, we saw why Narsimhadev, why not Mother Yasoda? But she’s not an avatar [Laughs]. She’s a devotee [Laughs]. So you can’t see Nanda as a devotee. So they’re all devotees. They’re not avatars. But Narshimhadev had like a Vatsalya relationship with Prahlad. Prahlad was like his child. He was like the lion protecting the child.
Translator devotee: Two questions from a devotee.
2) In the previous class your Holiness mentioned that Krishna stays in the kaisora age and, usually it starts from 11. But in Krishna’s case, it started at 8. So his question was, does that mean Krishna was 8 during the rasa dance? And when he married all the queens of Dwaraka? And if so, how did the gopis kind of develop that Madhurya Rasa with someone who looks so young? And were they also very young as well? That was one of the questions.
Okay. So, When Krishna was 8, that’s when he did the Rasa lila. The gopis also entered that age. So what happened is they developed earlier [Laughs], they aged quicker. He married the queens in Dwaraka some years later, so He was actually older. But He didn’t age much beyond that let’s say 11 to 15 years.
Translator devotee: The other question is not related to this one, this particular class. But he was wondering.
3) Who is Subhadra? Whether she was the daughter of Rohini or Yasoda or Devaki. Sometimes it’s mentioned that Subhadra is Durga, like Yasoda’s daughter. But then, so he wants to ask, who is Subhadra?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, Durga Devi was not Subhadra. That was Durga Devi, the sister of Krishna. She was born as his twin sister. So and then Kamsa tried to kill her. So that was Durga Devi, that was not Subhadra. She was born later, apparently. So she was the daughter of Vasudeva and Devaki. But we don’t have any details when she was born [Laughs].
Translator Devotee: Thank you very much.
4) Initially one of the four kumaras, Sanaka had may be santa-rati but then when he smelled the Tulasi leaf that was offered to Lord Vishnu’s lotus feet something happened, whether it was Rasa or something developed. So was it like what he initially had, Santa rasa, and then that became Dasya? What exactly happened was one of the questions?
Yeah, they have the Rati, and then the stimulus was the Tulsi leaf, or in this case, Narada Muni playing on the Vina. And then they get some Sattvika bhavas, like trembling, like this. And then that combines and it becomes Rasa [Laughs], Santa rasa.
Devotee : Santa Rasa, not Dasya rasa ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, Santa.
Translator Devotee: And this only applies to Sanaka or also the other three?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: All the four Kumaras, yeah.
Translator Devotee: So when Sanaka smelled the Tulsi or heard the Vina, something became Sthayibhava. What did he have before smelling?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, he always had Sthayibhava or Santa.
Devotee : Question asked in Japanese.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Sthayi Bhava, Bhava and rati – same thing. Rati is the sthayi bhava, Santa rati or Santi Sthayi bhava and rati and then we have the sattvika bhavas and then it combines and it produces rasa, Santa rasa. So then the sthayi bhava is the rati there [Laughs].
Translator Devotee: Was there a diagram that showed that rati became sthayi bhava?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It is the sthayi bhava. Rati is the sthayi bhava. It doesn’t become, it is equal, the same thing.
Translator Devotee: So when the Kumaras, Sanaka smelled Tulasi or heard the Veena, something became Sthayi bhava ? What did he have before smelling ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No he always had sthayi bhava or Santa.
Translator Devotee: And that became stronger?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: And then he had the influence of the Tulsi leaf, which is the Uddipana, smelling the Tulsi leaves and then he got Sattvika bhavas [Laughs].
Translator Devotee: Ah, Sattvika bhavas !
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Already the Vibhava is there in terms of Vishnu and the Sanaka [Laughs]. That produces the Sthayibhava of Santa. Then he got the stimulus of the Tulsi leaves. Then he got the Sattvika bhavas, maybe some Anubhavas also, like that and that combined and made rasa.
Devotee : Question asked in Japanese.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes for instance Sanat Kumara may start praising Krishna.
Translator devotee: Did Sanaka hear the vina at the same time when he was smelling the Tulasi leaf? Or it was something happened in the past?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No I don’t know.. probably different time.
5) Hare Krishna, Dandavat pranams Maharaj. Thank you for the class. Maharaj is there a thing that Santa Rasa and the impersonalist attraction, the attraction towards the impersonal aspect of the Lord, like is there a similarity between them?
Well [Laughs], the similarity is that a jnani, if he becomes a devotee, may be influenced by the jnana. So, therefore, his relationship with Krishna is rather weak. And he gets influenced by the impersonal, so he appreciates Krishna in his more impersonal aspect. But he also appreciates Krishna in his personal aspect. But he’s got influence, so, therefore, it becomes Santa-rati and then Santa-rasa, because of that.
6) Maharaj is santa rasa is also a perfectional stage right?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah.
Devotee: Okay, So whenever we are starting in Devotional service then it is advised that we all start with Santa. First of all we perfect ourself in santa rasa and then we raise to other platform like Dasya or Sakhya, Vatsalya…is it the thing…that at every stage we have to perfect ourself?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Usually we avoid Santa completely [Laughs] because that’s the influence of Jnana, we don’t want that, so we want a more active rasa, so we go for one of the other rasas.
Devotee: So, Maharaj, like most of the times, devotees don’t know which kind of relationship they are bringing from their previous lifes, the relationship with Krishna. So, in general case, is it advised to begin from Dasya or anyone can start experiencing Krishna in any rasa and practicing like that?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, we have no directive one way or the other, except to hear the pastimes of Krishna and then by that we can develop some attraction. However, we see that in our Sampradaya, the emphasis is on Madhurya-rasa, because Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself is in the mood of Radha and His special mercy is to reveal Radha Krishna’s love to the people of Kali Yuga. So, our whole Sampradaya is predominantly influenced by Madhurya-rasa.
Devotee: So, Maharaj, like, there are examples of some great devotees like Sukadeva Goswami and the four Kumaras who were having, like, initially who having impersonalist tendencies and then due to Uddipana, they developed love. So, is it something that, like, because they were very perfected devotees, so is it something that these were also some pastimes in order to give some examples to other devotees or this is the process that they followed to develop the…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Sukadev was a Brahmavadi. He wasn’t a devotee at all. Then by the mercy of Krishna Vyasadev, he became a devotee and developed Madhurya-rasa. So, he wasn’t going from Santa-rasa to, you know, like that [Laughs]. And the Kumaras are eternally in Santa-rasa.
Devotee: Thank you, Maharaj.
7) Devotee: Vyasadeva, which rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: That’s not mentioned [Laughs].
8) So, in the 18.54 Bhagavad Gita, it mentions like Brahmabhuta, Santa-rasa.
And then Krishna is saying from there, you can attain pure devotional service. So, in reference to what we talked about, how to understand?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, Vishwanath Chakravarti has an interesting explanation of that [Laughs]. So, he says that Jnani, in order to really advance and get liberation, must worship Krishna. But his main sadhana is Jnana. So, if he advances until he gets to the point of liberation, then he must give up the Jnana, which is actually Sattva-guna sadhana. So, therefore, he has come to the Brahma-bhuta platform. But, he does not give up the Bhakti portion. So, that continues. So, if he takes that Bhakti and continues, then he can become a devotee [Laughs]. Or, if he wants to merge in Brahman, then, of course, the Lord will be merciful and let him merge in Brahman [Laughs].
Devotee: Your Holiness mentioned that he gives up jnana, practically what does that mean? What is he actually giving up?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Sadhana that is studying Upanisad, deliberation, logic, Brahma sutra all of that, he gives up
Devotee: But we should not give up Bhagavat Jnana.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah.
9) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Dandavat Pranams. One gets spiritual master according to one’s Rasa, or how does that work? Like the spiritual master is also in the same Rasa.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, it depends on which spiritual master [Laughs]. You may have many spiritual masters in this life or next life also. So, you know, one of them could guide you in a particular Rasa. Some, before you develop Rasa, you may develop in most cases, you haven’t developed a Rasa and you get a Guru. Later on, you may develop Rasa. So, accordingly, when you really need, then Krishna makes some arrangement. Maybe Diksha Guru or maybe Siksa Guru or whatever, but Krishna makes arrangement for the devotee.
Devotee: Okay, thank you Maharaj. Hare Krishna.
10) So, in ISKCON, Prabhupada emphasized our main deity is Radha Krishna, so the supreme goal is Madhurya rasa. if we want object to be Krishna not Vishnu, we need to enter into Raghanuga stage and perform raghanuga Saddhana but can that be performed by chanting of Hare Krishna by itself or do we have to … is it(Hare Krsna mantra) a requisite to hear Krishna Lila from Vaisnavas who have that taste, who have that spontaneous in that Raghanuga stage?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, usually it develops naturally in that way. We develop a certain taste and we’re eager to hear about that [Laughs]. So then we associate with devotees who also speak about that.
Devotee: This means that Krishna will naturally arrange for that devotee?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah.
Translator Devotee: Somewhere I read, I cannot remember where, before I read that when first when we worship, we should worship as like Lakshmi Narayana with like awe and reverence.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, yeah, in deity worship generally, and especially in the temple, we follow the process of Pancharatra, which is Vaidhi Bhakti. So you know its Vaidhi Bhakti.
Translator Devotee: oh ! I see, this is for deity worship! Thank you very much.
11) So, this ISKCON is based on Gaudiya Vaishnavism, i am sure there are many other groups for example the Gaudiya mata and even within Gaudiya Matt, there are many other groups.In ISKCON like the standard for initiation is chanting 16 rounds and following four regulative principles is there different standards in the other groups and if so if there are differences, are they simply just differences? Or is one correct and one incorrect?
Well, of course, we have some basic standards, but the specific is like 16 rounds, etc. for first initiation, etc. That’s according to the leader of the movement to establish those things. Like in Nectar of Devotion, it doesn’t say anything about how many rounds you do [Laughs]. So, it doesn’t set a limit there at all.
Bhakti Vinod Thakur often mentions 64 rounds as a standard. So there’s no real you know set standard for anyone. It’s up to the movement itself to establish if they want to establish standards like that.
Of course, we see that, to advance, obviously will increase the bhakti, and will decrease the anarthas. We have to do that. But we set a certain standard, and the Gaudiya matt set a lesser standard. So it’s not right or wrong, but it’s just a different standard, that’s all [Laughs]. So in other words, they’re willing to accept people on a lower level and call them initiators. Whereas we want to accept the higher level and call them initiators, that’s all.
12) So in terms of qualification for Raghanuga like greediness / eagerness is what mentioned. Does that mean that if that person is very eager, has that greed, because the four regular principles are Dharma, artha etc are Varnashrama and they’re not the limbs of bhakti, does that mean that even if they’re not following, they’re able to cultivate a strong desire for Krishna? [Question not clear]
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Either in Vaidhi bhakti or Raghanuga if you could follow the principle or not follow the principles, so you could do that and that’s your free will.
But if you want to advance, then you do have to restrict your senses. So at a certain stage, you would have to follow all those principles. Otherwise, you would remain attached to the material world, and you could not advance. So whether it is Vaidhi Bhakti or Raganugha, the same principle applies.
Devotee: If someone has enough eagerness, greediness, and attraction for Krishna, then 16 rounds must be very easy to do.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah [Laughs], should not be difficult
Devotee: Thank you very much.
13) Dandavat pranans Maharaj, Maharaj, in ISKCON, we see more emphasis on chanting of the holy names and preaching and book distribution. We don’t see any particular development of rasa living among our spiritual leaders. They’re mostly in preaching and preaching and preaching. So how do you find out in which rasa or how much rasa they’re developing?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, the rasa will naturally develop as you develop bhakti.
In other words, the rasa will not really develop until you get to bhava stage, which is after saddhana. But to get to that, you have to develop through the sadhana. So that means we do have to chant properly. We do have to hear the scripture,etc. So we cannot even preach unless we hear properly, unless we chant properly. We cannot even preach properly. So the things go together.
. I say that the chanting and the preaching and the reading and hearing, etc, are all parts of developing that rasa anyway.
So all of the rules and regulations are that we remember Krishna. So if we’re chanting or hearing, the whole idea is to remember Krishna and establish a relationship with Krishna.
Devotee: Thank you very much, Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay. That’s it. Thank you very much.
Devotees: HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki Jai!!!.