yā vīrya-śulkena hṛtāḥ svayaṁvare
pramathya caidya-pramukhān hi śuṣmiṇaḥ
pradyumna-sāmbāmba-sutādayo ’parā
yāś cāhṛtā bhauma-vadhe sahasraśaḥ
Translation
The children of these ladies are Pradyumna, Sāmba, Amba, etc. Ladies like Rukmiṇī, Satyabhāmā and Jāmbavatī were forcibly taken away by Him from their svayaṁvara ceremonies after He defeated many powerful kings, headed by Śiśupāla. And other ladies were also forcibly taken away by Him after He killed Bhaumāsura and thousands of his assistants. All of these ladies are glorious.
Purport
Exceptionally qualified daughters of powerful kings were allowed to make a choice of their own bridegrooms in open competition, and such ceremonies were called svayaṁvara, or selection of the bridegroom. Because the svayaṁvara was an open competition between the rival and valiant princes, such princes were invited by the father of the princess, and usually there were regular fights between the invited princely order in a sporting spirit. But it so happened that sometimes the belligerent princes were killed in such marriage-fighting, and the victorious prince was offered the trophy princess for whom so many princes died. Rukmiṇī, the principal queen of Lord Kṛṣṇa, was the daughter of the King of Vidarbha, who wished that his qualified and beautiful daughter be given away to Lord Kṛṣṇa. But her eldest brother wanted her to be given away to King Śiśupāla, who happened to be a cousin of Kṛṣṇa. So there was open competition, and as usual Lord Kṛṣṇa emerged successful, after harassing Śiśupāla and other princes by His unrivalled prowess. Rukmiṇī had ten sons, like Pradyumna. There were other queens also taken away by Lord Kṛṣṇa in a similar way. Full description of this beautiful booty of Lord Kṛṣṇa will be given in the Tenth Canto. There were 16,100 beautiful girls who were daughters of many kings and were forcibly stolen by Bhaumāsura, who kept them captive for his carnal desire. These girls prayed piteously to Lord Kṛṣṇa for their deliverance, and the merciful Lord, called by their fervent prayer, released them all by fighting and killing Bhaumāsura. All these captive princesses were then accepted by the Lord as His wives, although in the estimation of society they were all fallen girls. The all-powerful Lord Kṛṣṇa accepted the humble prayers of these girls and married them with the adoration of queens. So altogether Lord Kṛṣṇa had 16,108 queens at Dvārakā, and in each of them He begot ten children. All these children grew up, and each had as many children as the father. The aggregate of the family numbered in the millions.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj :
So here the women are glorifying not only Krishna but the queens of Krishna. In the 10th canto, in the discussion about Rukmini, there it is indicated how Rukmini was very, very qualified. And the common people also understood that Rukmini was qualified for Krishna.
So, in the material world, qualification is a little different. They make arranged marriages and the person is qualified because of money. If the bride hasn’t got enough money for a dowry, they won’t consider. And of course, another is influence of the family of the girl. If they got a lot of influence in high standing then it’s good for their fame. And of course, another is qualification of beauty. And concerning family, generally, as we see here, if it is a royal family, then they have to have another royal family, they won’t marry a Sudra, for instance.
However, in the case of Krishna, the qualifications are very different. Who was most suitable for Krishna? So, material position, material beauty and wealth don’t really matter. But, in order to follow the ordinary ways of this world, Krishna somewhat conforms to the standards. So, he is in a Kshatriya family and he marries into another Kshatriya family. But, the most important quality is to consider the devotion. And of course, in devotion we have various qualifications. So, if they are qualified with Madhurya Rasa, that is the highest qualification for being the consort of Krishna. So, therefore that is the main consideration for Krishna.
Krishna understood the great devotion of Rukmini. And she wrote a letter to Krishna also. She had not seen him personally. But, she expressed her devotion very nicely. So, of course, she also had the other qualifications of good family, beauty, etc.
However, we see the case is different with the women captured by Bhaumasura. So, technically, because they were captured by Bhaumasura, nobody else would touch them. But then, they requested Krishna and Krishna accepted them as queens. So, this was not according to the standard at that time.
But, because of their devotion, Krishna accepted them. So, it is mentioned here that there were a total of 16,108 queens. Which seems like a very big number. But, it is explained in the 10th canto that Krishna expanded himself so he was personally with each of these queens in a separate palace. In this way, he satisfied each devotee. This also is a unique feature of Krishna.
We find here 16,108 queens. We do not see that with other forms of the Lord. With Vishnu, usually we see Sri, Bhu, and Neela. So, the opportunity for Madhurya Rasa is not there with the other forms of the Lord, but it is there with Krishna. So, the devotees of Krishna can aspire for Madhurya Rasa, whereas they cannot do so in other rasas. So, this is a display of how Krishna is perfect.
Krishna is able to respond and display all the rasas. The sages of Dandakaranya wanted Madhurya Rasa. They could not have Madhurya Rasa with Ramachandra.
So, with Krishna, yes. So, here, the glorification of these devotees is a glorification of Krishna’s perfection. I mentioned the other day that Rupa Goswami mentions, yes, Vishnu and Krishna are the same philosophically. It is one Bhagavan, but Krishna is special because of the display of rasa. So, no one else, no other form of the Lord has such displays. Of course, the criticism will come, Oh, why does Krishna have so many wives? Ramachandra set a very nice example of only one wife. So, this implies that Krishna is a materialist. That is why some people wont worship Krishna, but they will worship Rama or Vishnu. However, we should not apply material standards to the Supreme Lord.
Of course, we could even criticize Rama or Vishnu. Why are they married? Supreme Lord should be completely detached. In the material world, we criticize everybody who has attachments to house and family and wife and children, etc. Why is Vishnu attached to his wife? So, again, we cannot apply material examples. So, if we go to scripture, we will understand that the Supreme Lord is a person who has no material attachments to anything. So, he is not attached to material house, material family, material children and material wife. But that doesn’t mean he has no attachments. He is attached to his devotees. So, if Vishnu has Lakshmi or Rama has Sita, this is not a material attraction. It is an attraction to a devotee. If Krishna has 16,108 wives, he is attracted to many devotees. So, we can never criticize the Lord’s activities.
Of course, we could also say, Oh, okay, good if he is atleast married. But Gopis are unmarried with Krishna. Why Krishna is with the unmarried and doesn’t marry them? So, again, we cannot apply material standards and material marriage. In one sense, Lakshmi never married Vishnu. They are eternally married. So, there are pastimes of marriage with Lakshmi or pastimes of Krishna’s marriage here with the queens, but actually they are eternally married. And in the spiritual world, Krishna is eternally with the Gopis also. So, marriage in the spiritual world doesn’t mean the same thing.
So, the main idea is that this is a relationship between Krishna and his devotee. And Krishna responds to all of these devotees. So, instead of being a bad quality, it is a good quality.
The devotee desires Madhurya Rasa. Krishna responds. So, when Krishna appears in the material world, then we have pastimes to show marriage. What is the purpose of that? It is to show the prowess of Krishna and the devotion of the queens. So, we have to consider all of these descriptions properly and understand the real nature of Krishna and his devotees. It is mentioned here by Prabhupada that there were palaces in Dwarka and there were ten sons to each queen. Then those sons got married and each had ten sons. So, they had millions and millions of people in Dwaraka. So, what this shows is that the number of devotees in the spiritual world is unlimited. And they all have a relationship with the Lord. They are satisfied and the Lord is satisfied. So, these women in Hastinapur are glorifying Krishna and his devotees.
And Krishna is able to respond to all of these queens and to all of the gopis. They become glorious and Krishna becomes glorious.
Q & A
1) Last week you were saying that Shaktyavesha avatars are jiva tattvas. So these are liberated souls or a conditioned soul is elevated (as a liberated soul) and empowered to become as a Shaktyavesha avatar. In other words Can a nitya baddha also be a Shaktyavesha avatar?
The Shaktyavesha avatars as described by Rupa Goswami in Laghu Bhagavatamrita are eternal forms and nobody can become a Shaktyavesha avatar. So, nobody becomes Narada Muni or the Kumaras. They are eternally in that position and they have spiritual bodies.
Jivas in the material world can get powers from the Supreme Lord in that sense, Avesh, but they are not called Shaktyavesha avatars. They are usually called Vibhutis. The Manus, the 14 Manus in the day of Brahma and their descendants, their dynasties are called Vibhutis, empowered by the Lord to rule. The Sages and the Devatas that assume the role 14 times in the day of Brahma, they are also empowered by the Lord. But that is temporary empowerment. And they still have material bodies.
2) A devotee when he reaches the level of Prema, does he know that he is in the Prema stage?
So, in Prema, the devotee has no consideration of different levels. He may sometimes even be aware of his body, but often he is not aware of his body. His awareness is awareness of the Supreme Lord. And in that awareness, he serves the Lord and experiences bliss. It is just like in the spiritual world, the devotees are not wondering, what level am I at? I am in Sadhana or in Bhava or Prema. They don’t worry like that. They are just experiencing a relationship with the Lord.
3) Time and again, you are emphasizing the importance of Bhakti and how mercy helps one advance in Bhakti. And how association of devotees helps one achieve that mercy. But the problem is that we tend to determine which devotees can give mercy and who cannot. And accordingly, we have different attitudes towards different devotees. My question is, do we have the right to determine which devotee can or cannot give mercy? Secondly, what should be the right attitude towards all devotees?
What we define a devotee as is one who, with faith, accepts the process of Bhakti. So he has the seed of Bhakti in his heart. He cultivates the seed and the seed grows into a plant. And these devotees who have this plant of Bhakti, they also distribute mercy. In other words, they can inspire other devotees to take up the process of Bhakti. This is ultimately all spiritual Shakti. Bhakti itself is part of the internal energy of the Lord manifested in the Jiva.
Jiva is able to give out a little of that Shakti to other persons. However, according to the level of advancement, you can give up more Shakti or less Shakti. If you only get 1% or 0.1% Bhakti, you can’t give more than that to another person. So more advanced devotees are capable of giving more mercy. So we can instruct a person to get the mercy and instructions from a devotee. And we can also, to some degree, judge who is on a higher level, who is on a lower level, and preferably they go to the higher level person.
4) Does all the wives of Krishna, are they the Hladini and Samvit Shakti?
All the devotees have Hladini and Samvit Shakti. The people in Bhava and Prema in the material world, they also have. Bhakti itself is Samvid and Hladini Shakti.
5) All the 16,108 wives have Samvit, Sandhini and Hladini Shakti. But at the same time, devotees also have the same minute level in the material world. But related to Prabhu’s question, the Bhakti giving seed, Bhakti seed only everyone is getting, they are cultivating that seed. Then they are getting the fruit. In between there is, what is called, other weeds also. So we have to remove weeds. My question is, whoever is giving that Bhakti Shakti, do they have seeds itself or how they are transferring that Bhakti Shakti to other devotees? How? They are transferring that Bhakti Shakti to other devotees.
They have like fruits having so many seeds in material level, we can speak. So the seed of Bhakti means that we have the ability to perform the activities of Bhakti, like hearing, chanting, remembering, etc. So through the instructions of a devotee, a person can start doing that. So he gets the seed planted.
6) When the soul reaches, when the soul merges into the Brahmajyoti, it has only consciousness, you were explaining. What will be the form of the soul? Actually, the size of the soul is mentioned, but it doesn’t have any heads or legs or hands, you have mentioned it. But how does it have? When the size is there, there should be also be some form. So what form does it have?
In one sense size is material. To say Krishna is big or small, jiva is big or small is material dimension. But the Atma and Supreme Lord are non-material, so we cannot ultimately use material measurements for them. But when scripture mentions measurement of the soul, by this we understand, in comparison to the Lord, the Jiva is nothing. Of course, in the spiritual world, Krishna has a form with a certain so-called size, but that size is adjustable.
And similarly, Jiva has a particular form with a particular size, in comparison to Krishna. Of course, in the spiritual world, we see that Krishna and his devotees are usually about the same size. Not that the devotees are like this and Krishna is like that. But even there, this root of the Jiva, the very nature of the Jiva is to always be Anu, and the Supreme Lord is always Vibhu. But for pastimes and Ananda, they adjust their sizes so they are almost equal. So the Jiva in the material world, in the spiritual world, and in Brahman is the same Jiva.
So he is still Anu in comparison to Brahman or Bhagavan. But he also has no awareness of size at all, because he doesn’t even realize anything else than oneness. But he remains Jiva in any case.
7) In our Sampradaya, we can only become Manjaris, we cannot become Gopis. In this Kali Yuga, can the Sadhana Siddhas not attain Gopi form Maharaj? Because in the previous, you can see in Dwapara yuga , the Sadhana Siddhas become Gopis, but can’t we become Gopis in Kali Yuga?
So anything is possible, but we follow Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and particularly we follow Rupa Goswami, etc. So there the Madhurya Rasa is usually this Manjari form.
8) While doing Harinama Sankirtanam, how to perceive that holy name in our mind?
Well, along with the chanting process, the mind must have some activity. And one of the purposes of chanting is to concentrate on the Lord. Of course, if one has uncontrolled mind, then one can chant like anything, and think of something else. So that also has effect.
Ajamila wasn’t thinking of Vishnu, he chanted the name Narayana, and he got his sins destroyed. However, the devotee is concentrating on Supreme Lord, chanting His name, and remembering the Lord. It’s explained in Nectar of Devotion that the essence of Bhakti is to always remember the Lord, Never forget the Lord. All the different Angas of Bhakti are for that purpose.
So, the first Anga of Bhakti is what? The first Anga is surrender to the feet of Guru. So, if you surrender to Guru, and you never remember Krishna, then that’s not Bhakti. We hear Bhagavatam everyday, we never remember Krishna, that’s not Bhakti.
We do Kirtan everyday, we never remember the Lord, that’s not Bhakti. So, if we do Kirtan, and we never remember the Lord, how are we expressing our devotion to Krishna through that? The basic definition of Bhakti is Krishna Anusilanam, cultivating a relationship with Krishna. So, if we chant the holy name, and we never remember Krishna, how do we cultivate that relationship?
9) As I understand, Bhakti begins when we actually establish a relationship with Krishna. Does one establish the relationship from the time one is in the process of getting complete knowledge or when one becomes a Uttama Adhikari, he establishes a relationship?
So, the very definition of Bhakti is Krishna Anusilanam, to cultivate a relationship with Krishna. So, when you start Bhakti, there must be a relationship. Of course, it is not perfect. There are many anarthas, and therefore, through the process of Bhakti, gradually anarthas are destroyed. You reach Prema. The relationship is perfect.
10) You mentioned that there are unlimited number of devotees in the spiritual world. Similarly, we see that the population in this world is increasing. Are they from spiritual world or is this population increased due to the animals moving to the next cycle of birth?
Well, we see human population at this present time increasing. We also see some animals disappearing, some extinct. So, the Jivas within the universe are constantly changing bodies. Some population of animals or plants may increase, some will decrease.
11) We have heard that generally devotees don’t prefer to change the form upon which they are attracted. Being the case, how come the sages of Dandakaranya who were initially attracted to Lord Rama’s form switched to Krishna’s form?
Well, they desired Madhurya Rasa but they could not have Madhurya Rasa with Ramachandra because he only has one wife.
12) What’s the reason behind Srila Prabhupada repeatedly condemning Mayavadis in his purports?
So, of course, we find this is not just Srila Prabhupada. We will find even the Goswamis equally condemning Mayavada philosophy. In fact, the most ardent critic is Madhvacharya. And the reason is that the Mayavada philosophy negates Bhagavan, the form of the Lord. And also negates the Jiva. So, there is no possibility of bhakti and prema.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam Ki.. Jai ! Srila Prabhupad Ki.. Jai !! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj Ki.. Jai !!