Srimad Bhagavatam – 8.24.31~37 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | 5 March 2025
Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracharine
nirvishesha-shunyavadi-pashchatya-desha-tarine
jaya sri-krishna-chaitanya
prabhu nityananda
sri-adwaita gadadhara
shrivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 8, Chapter 24, Verse 31.
Text 31
śrī-śuka uvāca
iti bruvāṇaṁ nṛpatiṁ jagat-patiḥ
satyavrataṁ matsya-vapur yuga-kṣaye
vihartu-kāmaḥ pralayārṇave ’bravīc
cikīrṣur ekānta-jana-priyaḥ priyam
Synonyms
śrī-śukaḥ uvāca — Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; iti — thus; bruvāṇam — speaking like that; nṛpatim — unto the King; jagat-patiḥ — the master of the entire universe; satyavratam — unto Satyavrata; matsya-vapuḥ — the Lord, who had assumed the form of a fish; yuga-kṣaye — at the end of a yuga; vihartu-kāmaḥ — to enjoy His own pastimes; pralaya-arṇave — in the water of inundation; abravīt — said; cikīrṣuḥ — desiring to do; ekānta-jana-priyaḥ — most beloved by the devotees; priyam — something very beneficial.
Translation
Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: When King Satyavrata spoke in this way, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who at the end of the yuga had assumed the form of a fish to benefit His devotee and enjoy His pastimes in the water of inundation, responded as follows.
Text 32 : Translation
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: O King, who can subdue your enemies, on the seventh day from today the three worlds — Bhūḥ, Bhuvaḥ and Svaḥ — will all merge into the water of inundation.
Text 33 : Translation
When all the three worlds merge into the water, a large boat sent by Me will appear before you.
Texts 34-35 : Translation
Thereafter, O King, you shall collect all types of herbs and seeds and load them on that great boat. Then, accompanied by the seven ṛṣis and surrounded by all kinds of living entities, you shall get aboard that boat, and without moroseness you shall easily travel with your companions on the ocean of inundation, the only illumination being the effulgence of the great ṛṣis.
Text 36 : Translation
Then, as the boat is tossed about by the powerful winds, attach the vessel to My horn by means of the great serpent Vāsuki, for I shall be present by your side.
Text 37 : Translation
Pulling the boat, with you and all the ṛṣis in it, O King, I shall travel in the water of devastation until the night of Lord Brahmā’s slumber is over.
Purport
This particular devastation actually took place not during the night of Lord Brahmā but during his day, for it was during the time of Cākṣuṣa Manu. Brahmā’s night takes place when Brahmā goes to sleep, but in the daytime there are fourteen Manus, one of whom is Cākṣuṣa Manu. Therefore, Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura comments that although it was daytime for Lord Brahmā, Brahmā felt sleepy for a short time by the supreme will of the Lord. This short period is regarded as Lord Brahmā’s night. This has been elaborately discussed by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Laghu-bhāgavatāmṛta. The following is a summary of his analysis. Because Agastya Muni cursed Svāyambhuva Manu, during the time of Svāyambhuva Manu a devastation took place. This devastation is mentioned in the Matsya Purāṇa. During the time of Cākṣuṣa Manu, by the supreme will of the Lord, there was suddenly another pralaya, or devastation. This is mentioned by Mārkaṇḍeya Ṛṣi in the Viṣṇu-dharmottara. At the end of Manu’s time there is not necessarily a devastation, but at the end of the Cākṣuṣa-manvantara, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by His illusory energy, wanted to show Satyavrata the effects of devastation. Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī also agrees with this opinion. The Laghu-bhāgavatāmṛta says:
madhye manvantarasyaiva
muneḥ śāpān manuṁ prati
pralayo ’sau babhūveti
purāṇe kvacid īryate
ayam ākasmiko jātaś
cākṣuṣasyāntare manoḥ
pralayaḥ padmanābhasya
līlayeti ca kutracit
sarva-manvantarasyānte
pralayo niścitaṁ bhavet
viṣṇu-dharmottare tv etat
mārkaṇḍeyeṇa bhāṣitam
manor ante layo nāsti
manave ’darśi māyayā
viṣṇuneti bruvāṇais tu
svāmibhir naiṣa manyate
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj
Here we have the prediction of flood. Flood is a common theme in many cultures of the world. We have in the Bible the Noah’s Flood, etc [Laughs]. It’s a common theme. I think the Indians of North America have a flood and the Norse mythology has a flood. So it’s a common theme. There was some ancestral flood a long time ago.
So here in the Bhagavatam we have flood. But we don’t have one flood. We have many floods. Now we have the big flood when everything is destroyed. This is maha pralaya, end of Brahma’s life. Everything is finished. Everything dissolves and nothing remains.
But at the end of the day of Brahma and he has 360 days in one year and he has 100 years. So every day at the end of the day there is a big flood also. It’s not a complete devastation but there is a flood that covers even Svargaloka. All the water goes up like that and it’s rain, rain, rain. And then there is the night of Brahma and everybody goes to sleep including Brahma. Then he wakes up and the flood goes down and everything is restored. So it’s a partial devastation.
Then, there is another type of devastation which is described after the Manvantara periods. So within the daytime of Brahma there are 14 divisions. Just like we have 12 hours a day and 12 hours at night. So he has 14 divisions in his day. These are called Manvantara periods. Each approximately 71 yuga cycles. So these cycles after each cycle there is a new Manvantara period. So they are called Manvantara periods because within that one Manu rules with his dynasty like Svayambhuva Manu. First part of the day of Brahma he rules for 71 yuga cycles. Not personally but his descendants rule. After that another Manu arises and his descendants will rule for 71 yuga cycles.
Now we are in Vaivasvata Manvantara. So Vaivasvata Manu who is actually Satyavrata from the previous Manu he becomes the Manu. Vaivasvata Manu. His descendants will rule for 71 yuga cycles. Then another one will go throughout the day of Brahma. These are the Manvantara periods. And along with the Manu we get new Devatas, new sages, etc. So there is another Indra [Laughs], 14 times in a day of Brahma. All the Devatas keep changing and the Rishis keep changing 14 times in a day of Brahma.
And according to like here in Laghu Bhagavatamrita Sridhar Swami does not accept [Laughs]. But Rupa Goswami based on other Puranas says that after every Manu’s period, then there is a devastation like this. After the Chakshusa Manvantara which is the 6th Manvantara there is a flood. But actually there is a flood after Svayambhuva and after all the other ones. So there are 14 floods in one day of Brahma. But these are not as big as the other floods. At the end of the day of Brahma everything goes up past Svarga Loka. So that is a big flood. So this one does not get that far. But it is enough to cover the earth and all those whatever is here get on the ark or the boat and get pulled around by Matsya Avatar.
So therefore Rupa Goswami says that actually Matsya appears 14 times in a day of Brahma. Not just once, 14 times. But there is some disagreement as we see here. Some say there are several devastations and others say as Rupa Goswami says 14 or whatever. So there is a little controversy about that.
In any case, the one after Chakshusa Manvantara with Satyavrata who becomes Vaivasvata Manu later on, this one is the famous one. And the fish is involved in this because as we said the story of the fish how it become bigger and bigger and bigger. And then when there is this devastation, there is this boat they build and then Satyavrata gets on the boat with all the herbs and the animals etc. And Matsya Avatar pulls the boat around so that it does not crash anywhere. So that is how Matsya appears and that is his function. And he is an avatar of the Supreme Lord.
So the idea here is that as explained in this verse here the Lord appears for the benefit of the living entities. He is very dear to them and the devotees are dear to the Lord. So that is one aspect because of the flood there has to be some sort of preservation. So then normal human beings can’t do that and even Manu cannot do that by himself.
So Supreme Lord makes this arrangement in which he arranges for the boat and he carries the boat around and it safely survives the flood. And when the next Manvantara starts, Vaivasvata Manvantara starts, everything can again grow and the animals can be there and human beings can survive.So this is a way in which the Lord protects the living entities on the earth.
One of the topics of Bhagavatam, of course, is Poshana. There are ten topics. Creation, sub-creation, sthana, the geography. And then one of the topics after that is Poshana. How the Lord protects the living entities within the universe.
So he not only puts them all there through Lord Brahma etc., makes the planet, but he protects them and preserves them in different ways. So this is one way [Laughs]. He saves them during the flood as an avatar.
There are other ways as well. And one of the ways described in the sixth canto is the name of the Lord. The Lord may not be personally present but He appears as the name. And the name of the Lord protects the living entities. That is illustrated by the case of Ajamil. So, of course, Ajamil was not a nice living entity. He was a sinful [Laughs], crooked or whatever.. Gangster. And killing people or robbing people and whatever, full of adharma. But he got saved. He should have been punished for his activities and definitely would be, because Yamaraj was ready to do that. But, he wasn’t punished. So he was saved. But, of course, we could say why he should get saved because he was so sinful and guilty, etc.
The answer was the Lord is very merciful. Why? Because he chanted the name of the Lord. So that’s how the Lord protects people in the material world, even if they’re not so nice people. By His name. Of course, we know that sometimes the Lord comes and he kills people. The Lord comes as Narashima dev and kills Hiranyakasipu. Krishna comes and kills Kamsa and Aghasura and all the demons. But sometimes the Lord is very merciful also, even to the demons. Of course, when he kills Sishupala, he goes to Vaikuntha.
So, and here we see how even if the Lord is not personally present, something miraculous happens. He is free from all of his bad karma in spite of the fact that even Yamaraja thought, no, he should be punished because he is guilty. So how is it possible that Vishnuthudas say, no, he cannot be punished? Why? Because he chanted the name of Vishnu. That’s all. Not even with devotion. No devotion at all. No offense, but no devotion. And just by doing even once, all of his karma is gone no more sin. So that’s the mercy of the Supreme Lord protection in the form of the name. Which we see even the Lord when He comes personally doesn’t do that all the time either. So he kills different demons. So, this is Poshana of the Lord. He protects not only the devotee but other living entities as well as here we see.
The Lord is protecting not just the human beings and not just the good people. So, in other times, the Lord is not personally present but then He’s still there as devotional service and as chanting of the name. And of all the things, the chanting of the name is the most powerful protection of all. So it protects not only devotees, it protects people who just accidentally chant the name. That’s the power of it. And not just protects them, but even if they’re the most sinful and they do all sorts of abominable activities, somehow chanting the name even once completely destroys all of their bad karmas and they get no punishment at all. So that’s the type of protection the Lord gives.
Of course, we can also say that, yes, the Lord absolves the sinful reactions by chanting the name accidentally. That’s true. But it does not give the ultimate result i.e. Prema. By accidentally chanting, you cannot get prema. Ajamila could not get prema and go to Vaikuntha simply by accidentally chanting.
So, if you want to get prema, you can also get that by the name, chanting the name, even Vishnu. But you have to do it with devotion. And that’s exactly what Ajamila did. He got a little reprieve and he came back to life. He became a devotee. He chanted the name, did devotional service, then he went to Vaikuntha.
So, the name does act mercifully, even for sinful people, whatever. But it doesn’t give the highest result for that. That’s reserved for the devotees. So, the devotee is equal to everybody, but he is most affectionate towards the devotees. So therefore, the devotee gets better results. So that principle operates kind of universally. And in Bhagavad Gita Krishna says, as you surrender unto me, I respond accordingly. So, according to the amount of devotion or lack of devotion, the Lord acts differently. But he responds to everybody, even the demons. But if you’re a devotee, you get more response, and more response, and more response.
So, we see that the forms of the Lord also show different amounts of mercy. Of course, the Lord, in any form, is very merciful and affectionate towards devotees. Any form of the Lord is called Bhakta Vatsala. But, Krishna, as Svayam Bhagavan, manifests more qualities and more mercy [Laughs]. That’s what distinguishes Krishna from everybody else. And in this sense, He’s the ultimate protector of everybody. So that’s illustrated by the fact that whatever mercy any other form of the Lord can give, Krishna also gives that mercy, but He gives even more mercy.
That’s illustrated in the story of Narasimhadeva and Hiranyakasipu. So, Hiranyakasipu is a big demon and harasses Prahlad. So, Narasimhadeva is very angry, but He’s also very merciful because the Lord, in all cases, doesn’t really have anger. So, when he kills Hiranyakasipu, Hiranyakasipu doesn’t have to suffer anymore. Actually, he gets a reward. What’s his reward? He becomes Ravana. And he gets to enjoy nicely again [Laughs]. So, this is the nature of the Lord. This is one of the qualities that distinguish Vishnu from Shiva. When the Lord kills a demon, the demon doesn’t get a bad result. He doesn’t go to hell, whatever. He gets a nice enjoyment.
So, he enjoys as Ravana. Ravana was killed by Rama. Again, Of course, he’s wicked also. He did so many bad activities and he kidnapped Sita, etc. But he didn’t go to hell. What happened? He became Sishupala. And again he enjoyed, because this is the nature of the Lord. He doesn’t punish the demon, actually, when He kills him. He gets a nice result. When Krishna killed Sishupala, what happened? He also didn’t have to suffer. He went to Vaikuntha. He got a better result [Laughs]. So, in other words, Krishna is more merciful. He doesn’t just give you a nice position in the material world for the demon but if he kills a demon, they can even go to Vaikuntha. And we see that’s the case of Putana as well. Or Agasura. They went to Vaikuntha.
Now, normally, the forms of the Lord, they kill a demon, they get some elevation in the material world and enjoy nicely. But when Krishna kills a demon, they get Mukti or they get to Vaikuntha. That’s the speciality of Krishna. He gives more mercy [Laughs]. So, this is the protection of the Supreme Lord. How He, even for the demons, He gives some very nice results. But Krishna, of course, is the most exalted of all. So, when Krishna kills a demon, they can get liberation or they go to the spiritual world. It’s remarkable. So, in this way the Lord is Bhakta Vatsala, but as Krishna, He’s very, very special. He shows more mercy.
So, all these forms of the Lord are merciful. They all give protection. They all help the living entities. And here we see that Matsya Avatars are helping out by preserving all the living entities and saving Satyavrata and installing him later as the Manu and Vaivasvata Manvantara. In this way, the Lord performs His activities. So, nevertheless, of all the personalities who protect, Krishna is the ultimate.
And we see the name of Vishnu, or Narayana, is powerful. And thus, Ajamila got saved from his hellish existence or whatever. And then eventually went to Vaikuntha. The name of Krishna is even more powerful. Krishna’s got more mercy. So, His name is also more merciful. So, that’s why it is said that the name of Rama is equal to 1,000 names of Vishnu. But three names of Rama is equal to one name of Krishna [Laughs]. So, Krishna’s name is 3,000 Vishnu names [Laughs]. So, of course, we can’t really quantify like that, but this is to show that Krishna is very special by having more mercy, more powers, more sweetness, etc. And His name is similar.
All the names of the Lord are wonderful, but we’ll get more effect from chanting Krishna’s name. Very, very special. So, we get higher results. More mercy, more sweetness, etc. by chanting Krishna’s name. Just as Krishna will even liberate the demons and even give them Vaikuntha. So we get the same with the name of Krishna.
So, there is a little problem because if Krishna gives liberation and even Vaikuntha, even a spiritual body to a demon, why should we become devotees? Let us all be demons. Get killed by Krishna [Laughs]. Easy way to get to the spiritual world. Just get killed by Krishna. But, it’s not that Krishna comes all the time and He may not want to kill you. But, the real reason is that yes, Krishna is very merciful to these demons and they may get the spiritual world, they get a spiritual body. Putana became a nurse in the spiritual world.
But, if one is a devotee of the Lord, you even get a better result than simply getting Salokya, going to the spiritual world, getting a body, Sarupya, getting powers, Sarsti etc. Lord can gives these to the demons even when He kills them. But, He gives more to the devotee. And what is that? Devotees get Prema. Or, we can say, OK, these demons get a little Prema. They must have something in the spiritual world. If they are there, they are not demons anymore. So, in the spiritual world, Putana or Sishupala, whatever, they are not demons. They are servants of the Lord. They get some little Prema but the devotee will get more intense Prema much more intense Prema.
And that is like proof of the statement that as the devotee surrenders, I respond. So, you do a little bit, Krishna gives a little bit. And, if you do a lot for Krishna, Krishna gives you a lot. So, the devotee does a lot for the Lord, Krishna responds by giving great Prema. So, there is a difference between the demons getting killed by the Lord and getting you know liberation or Salokya, whatever, and the devotee practicing and struggling in the material world against all obstacles, serving the Lord in all cases. The Lord is particularly merciful to that person. And, He gets a higher position of Prema in the spiritual world, much more than the others.
So, in this way, the Lord acts very fairly to everyone – living entities in general, to the demons, to the devotees, and to the devotees of different intensities. So, for the mixed devotees one result for those practicing pure devotee, pure bhakti, another results.
So, that’s the nature of the Supreme Lord, merciful in all cases, protecting the devotees, protecting everyone, but particularly merciful towards the devotees. And, of all the persons, Krishna – most merciful, and give the highest results of all.
OK, any questions there ?
Q & A
1) Hare Krishna Maharaj Ji, thank you for the class. As you just said, like a devotee aspires for Krishna Prema, and when they go back to Goloka and serve Krishna over there, and the demons, like you mentioned Sishupal, they go to Vaikuntha, so that they are being close to Lord. Third, what happened to the in-between people? So, if you compare, devotees are positive and demons are the negatives. What happens to the neutral person, they are in karma, why don’t they go to Lord?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: OK, not demons, not devotees. What happens to them? When? Lord is not going to kill them.
Devotee: They are neither going to Vaikuntha, nor getting Krishna Prema.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, what happens to the people in between? Well, Lord is merciful, He can be directly merciful to the Lord in the material world if they happen to see Him and they are neutral, then they can start getting attraction.
Because the nature of the Lord is all attractive, so the exposure to the Lord, if you are neutral, you become more attractive. So, in other words, you can become a devotee. Once you become a devotee and you seriously serve the Lord, then, of course, the Lord responds even more.
When the Lord is not personally present, then it is up to the devotees to spread the mercy of the Lord to these innocent people. So, this is the quality of the Madhyama Adhikari. He gives mercy to the innocent, those who are neither demons nor devotees.
They just don’t know. So, the devotee is merciful to these people and he preaches to them and gives them knowledge of Bhakti and Krishna. So, it is up to the devotees, therefore, to give mercy to these people in the material world.
So, that is the normal way in which the innocent people, the neutral people get progress through the mercy of devotees. And that’s why devotees are to be worshipped, because they are the ones who give the mercy of the Lord to people in the material world. The Lord is not present all the time, maybe once every yuga, 400,000 years, 500,000 years, 600,000 years, a million years between the appearance of the Lord. So, He is not giving the mercy all the time. But devotees give the mercy to the innocent people. So, that is how they get progress.
Devotee: Thank you Maharaj.
2) Hare Krishna Maharaj, it is said one can reach the spiritual world when the soul is pure. Then how come demons exist in the spiritual world?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Demons? Well, which demons?
Devotee: Like Trinavarta, Bakasura, Agasura. The pastimes happen in the spiritual world?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, normally, we don’t have demons in the spiritual world. And when the Lord comes in the material world, then there are these particular pastimes.
However, it is also described in the, what is it? Where is it? Brhad- Bhagavathamruta, I think it is. That when Gopal Kumar goes there, then He mentions that there are some demons there, kind of demons. But this looks like these are just, let’s say, play demons [Laughs]. So, there are demons there for lila to create a little variety.
But they are not actual demons in the sense of Tamasic entities like that. As for the demons in the material world, like the Agasura and Bakasura, they enter into Vrindavan or whatever. So, this is a typical of the Lord’s appearance in the material world where He kills all sorts of demons.
So, in that sense, they can enter into the, kind of enter into the Dhama temporarily for pastimes of the Lord. But it is very temporary. They don’t stay there.
And then they get killed or kicked out or whatever.
3) Hare Krishna Maharaj. This pralaya happened towards the end of the Chakshusa Manantara. And is it chronological that Vamanadeva appeared in the same Manantara, Chakshusha? And overall, Bhagavatam from third canto onwards, is it kind of chronologically going in the day of Brahma? Is it like that?
Yes, it is more or less chronological, yeah in terms of Manvantaras. So, we start out with Svayambhuva Manvantara in third canto and then we go on to that. And here we are in Chakshusa Manvantara in the eighth canto. And then I guess into Vivasvata Manvantara. And then we get into ninth canto, we get Rama and ?? , Vivasvata Manvantara and different yuga cycles, etc. Basically, chronological.
4) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj, you mentioned about Ajamila’s pastime. We see in the fifth canto, a stark contrast with the story of Maharaj Bharata who then becomes a deer and then becomes Jada Bharata who did so much of devotional service but had to go through two lifetimes to attain spiritual world. But, on the contrast, we see Ajamila in the same lifetime goes to spirit. So, how do we understand this contradiction?
Well, every Jiva is an individual [Laughs] and he has his own nature, his own karma, and he also has his own relationship with the Lord. So, everything is going to be slightly different for each individual.
In the case of Bharata, of course, he came in a Manvantara line and he was a great king. So, we wouldn’t expect too much problem with him [Laughs]. And therefore, he actually ended up with Bhava when he was in the forest, he was worshipping Vishnu. And he saw Vishnu and he got ecstatic symptoms. He was in the Bhava and not even sadhana. He was in the Bhava stage. But then he became attracted to a deer and he forgot the Lord completely.
So, that’s very strange [Laughs]. And then he became a deer. So, that’s a big fall down in one sense. But it’s explained that in a previous lifetime, he committed some aparad. And the effect of that aparad was not destroyed in spite of all his [Laughs] bhakti in this lifetime and even in Bhava stage. So, that began to disturb his mind, that why he became attracted to a deer. Some weakness, it allowed weakness to set in that anarta of an aparad. So, that’s how he fell from that position.
However, as Rupa Goswami says in Nectar of Devotion, a person in Bhava is very rare. And that devotion is such that the Lord is very attracted to that. So, therefore, you should never criticize a bhava bhakta even if he falls [Laughs] like Bharat fell down, we can’t criticize him. Because the Lord is very affectionate towards such a devotee. So, even if that devotee happens to fall, the Lord has got his attachment to that devotee. So, he’ll make arrangement for him so that he can also recover.
So, in the case of Bharat, recovery was that as a deer, he remembered his past life normal deer can’t remember anything. But he was a special deer [Laughs]. He had a very good intelligence. He could remember previous lifetime. He could remember his activities. He could remember his faults, etc. And therefore, as a deer, he was not a normal deer. He was a very austere deer. He wasn’t attracted to anything material. He just ate a few leaves and then he passed out of his body. Then, in the next lifetime, that experience continued and again he didn’t become attracted to anything as Jada Bharat and he got Prema.
So, therefore, this is kind of an arrangement of the Lord given circumstances so that he can act favorably to get Prema even if he fell from bhava. So, special mercy of the Lord again, ultimately.
5) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Thank you for a wonderful class. Maharaj, you mentioned in your class that like a demon who got back to the spiritual world, to them, Krishna has also given a love. But a devotee, he shows more love. They get more Prema. So, how we understand that? If we take an example of Putana, she is also in motherly love. She is serving Krishna in the Goloka. So, even the other devotee who got love for Krishna, how to compare that? Both are seeing Krishna, both are being with Krishna. So, how it is higher to a devotee than the demon? He is merciful.
So, various people can get to the spiritual world including some, not all the demons, but some of them by Krishna’s special [Laughs] mercy they get there. But as we see in the case of Putana, yes, she went to the spiritual world and because she had acted like a mother and disguised herself as a nice girl and tried to feed Krishna her poison, her breast, kind of like a mother, Krishna said, ok give her some spiritual body in the spiritual world. So, she became a nurse in the spiritual world.
So, she has that position, but it is a little bit indirect, her relationship with the Lord, not a direct mother or anything like that. So, if we practice even mixed bhakti, have a little karma yoga mixed with our bhakti, a little material attachment, and that doesn’t go away. And we progress and progress and progress and eventually we get rid of all of our anarthas, etc.
We can also go to the spiritual world and get something better than Svargaloka or Brahmaloka or even Mukti, because we are worshipping the Lord. So, we can get to the spiritual world also, but without the material desires anymore. But….So, we get Salokya and Sarupya, we get a nice form, a spiritual form, Vaikuntha or whatever, some relationship with the Lord because we did bhakti, but it is not so strong because we had that mixture in our bhakti in the beginning [Laughs]. So, there are various people in the spiritual world. Some are in Santarasa or a weak Santarasa, some are in stronger Rasas like Dasa, etc. And some, of course, we worship Krishna, then we can get up to Madhurya Rasa.
So, according to the way in which we do our sadhana, we get different results. And so, we do a mixed type of sadhana with a weak bhakti, a little bit weak bhakti, we get to the spiritual world, but it is a weaker relationship with the Lord so it is like a weak Santa rasa or something like that. Yes, we are in spiritual world we got a body but it’s a weak relationship and we may see the Lord, but generally we just meditate on the Lord and serve Him mentally or something. So, the devotees, of course, have direct service to the Lord.
Devotee: Maharaj, sorry, just extended question to it. Is that like every soul has their own position in the spiritual world, like everyone has their own Rupa, like once you go there, you get like what you have left, like whatever the Svarupa you have there. So, is it that whatever bhakti we will do and that kind of Svarupa you will get in Golaka or it is already pre-decided?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: According to our desire and our practice, we get a result.
Just as if you study for medicine, then you can get a medical degree and become a doctor. So, if we worship Naarsimhadeva, for instance, become a devotee of Narasimhadeva, we go to Nrsimhadeva in Dasya Rasa. We worship Krishna we go to Krishna.
And, of course, with Krishna we get a little choice of Rasa unlike with Vishnu or Narasimhadeva all Dasya Rasa. So, we have a choice. You worship Krishna in Dasya Rasa, you become a servant of Krishna in the spiritual world. If you worship in Sakya Rasa, you become a cowherd boy or a friend or like Arjuna or whatever. And if you do Madhurya Rasa, you become a Manjari or a Gopi or whatever.
So, according to our sadhana, we concentrate on this for several lifetimes and then Krishna fulfils that desire. And that is what we get in the spiritual world. Once we get it its eternal no beginning and no end.
Devotee: Thank you, Maharaj.
6) Hare Krishna, Maharaj. You mentioned that the devotees are worshipable because they give mercy to the innocent souls. So, what does it mean when we say Vancha kalpatarubyas ca, so we say devotees are like desire trees. They fulfill all the desires. What does that actually mean?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: You mean; why don’t they give mercy to the demons also? If they are Kalpavrikshas. Is that the question [Laughs]?
Devotee: What does it mean to be like a Kalpavriksha?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, Well, the devotees are merciful to everyone. Krishna is merciful to everyone also. But it’s like the rain falls everywhere. But if it falls in the desert, nothing really happens. It falls on the rocks, nothing blossoms or whatever like that. So, it’s a little bit of a waste of time.
So, the devotees are all merciful. But at the same time, we are also advised to don’t preach to the demons, because it becomes an offense [Laughs]. So, we avoid them in one sense. But still we are merciful to them. We have nothing against them. But it’s just a waste of time and they may get further aparad if we preach to them.
So, all we can do is, give mercy in another way without preaching. That is, without their knowing, they can be engaged in devotional service, take prasadam or hear the name or whatever. So, we don’t preach directly. But nevertheless we’re merciful even to the demons and we have no animosity or anger or whatever against anyone in the material world.
7) Hare Krishna Maharaj. In the first canto, in the conversation between Narada Muni and Vyasadeva, Narada Muni is discussing his previous life. In his previous life, he attained a spiritual body. And then after attaining the spiritual body, he merges back into Vishnu, including the Brahma. So, he attains the spiritual body, but he also merges…
So, of course, that story itself, actually Narada Muni has an eternal body in the spiritual world also. So, when he comes in this idea of becoming the son of a maidservant, that’s like a lila, more or less. So, he does have an eternal spiritual body. And, of course, at the end of the day of Brahma, everything disappears, everything goes to sleep, and Brahma himself merges into Vishnu.
So, in that sense, we say, they all merge, but he doesn’t have a material body so obviously his body is not disappearing. But he cannot do anything, because everybody is sleeping, and he merges into Mahavishnu. So, therefore, he also, more or less, takes a rest at that point.
When everything comes out, then Brahma manifests Narada Muni as one of his sons, again. But, again, it’s not a real birth, because he has an eternal body. So, he’s got an eternal body, but he may appear or disappear, or merge, or whatever.
But he’s also simultaneously eternally in the spiritual world [Laughs]. He can expand himself in all the universes, also. Because there are so many Brahmas, and there are so many Narada Munis.
But, unlike Brahmas, there are so many Brahmas that are all individual Jivas, in the universe. Narada Muni is one Narada Muni, but with many forms, in many places, in many universes, and in the spiritual world. And he’s a Jiva, also [Laughs]. But a special Jiva. Sakthiavesha avatar.
Devotee: And with Lord Brahma, at the end of his day, when he goes to sleep, he merges with Garbhodakasyai Vishnu?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Looks like it, yeah.
Devotee: So, when we say sleep, he merges with the Lord.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, he sleeps also, and then he comes out of the navel, and starts his creation again, the next day.
8) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Can we say that the Noah’s Ark story in the Bible is the same as the Matsya pastime, except they just cut out Matsya from it? Yeah, but they just cut out Matsya.
Well, as I said, the story of the flood is there in many places.
And, of course, in Noah’s flood, there’s an ark, there’s a boat also, and all these. So it’s very similar to this, where they all get into the thing, but there’s no fish there, or whatever like that. So, yeah, we can say there’s similarity, and there’s similarity with other stories also, in other cultures of the world, the big flood, or whatever like that.I don’t think they have a fish also in the other ones [Laughs]. But, certainly the flood is there.
In this case, as I said, the form of Matsya is very convenient, because everything is water, so then it’s suitable for the Lord to take a fish farm in the water, and pull the boat around like that, because the fish is at home in the water. So this is a display of the Lord’s power to adapt to the situation, and save the living entities.
Devotee: And also, for some reason, I thought that Jagai and Madhai were Hiranyakasipu and Hiranyaksha. Is that true?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: That was considered to be an incarnation of Jaya and Vijaya, who again come into the material world to experience the past times with Lord Chaitanya. So they are Jaya and Vijaya.
Okay. Hare Krishna.
Devotees: Grantaraj Srimad Bhagavatham ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj Ki jai!!!