Vraja Riti Cintamani | Part 1 | Verse 1~14 | Shravana Utsav 2024

Vraja Riti Cintamani | Part 1  | Verse 1 to 14 | Shravana Utsav 2024 by HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj @ ISKCON Chennai on Feb 10, 2024

Introduction given by devotee: Jai Harinama Sankirtan ki jai ! Sril Prabhupada ki jai ! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai ! Gaura Premanande ! Hari Hari bhol !

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

So we are all very very happy and fortunate to be here for another edition of Shravana mela, subsequent to the recent  Madura Mahotsava which was held a month ago. So, in a conversation between Maitreya Muni and Vidura, this Bhagavatam verse says, Simply by hearing about your lotus feet with eagerness and devotion, and by meditating upon them within the heart, one at once becomes enlightened with knowledge, and on the strength of the detachment, one becomes pacified. So, we must therefore take shelter of the sanctuary of your lotus feet. So, the key points in this verse are, simply by hearing about your lotus feet with eagerness and devotion, and by meditating upon them within the heart, one at once becomes enlightened with knowledge, and on the strength of detachment, one becomes pacified. Therefore, we must take shelter of your lotus feet, which has the same meaning.

So, here is an opportunity for us, to hear for the next five full days, immerse ourselves at the lotus feet of the Lord and serve Vaishnavas, meditate within the heart of what we have heard, and at once become enlightened.

So, what is the price that we have to pay for this? What is the price each one has to pay? From this verse? From this specific verse – “eagerness and devotion”. Eagerness and devotion, that’s the point! So, great personalities have taken the pain to come here, travelled from different parts, and we are very grateful to them, and we are especially thankful to His Holiness Bhanu Swami Maharaj, and the other visiting Vaishnava speakers, and let’s all welcome them by loudly chanting..

“Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna! Krishna! Krishna! Hare Hare!

  Hare Rama! Hare Rama! Rama! Rama! Hare Hare!”

[ Some general instructions for the audience in the hall ]

So, His Holiness Bhanu Swami Maharaj is one of the senior most disciples of Srila Prabhupada, joined ISKCON in about 1970-71. Maharaj has served as chairman of the GBC at least a couple of times, and he has translated the previous Acharya’s books – about 180+ books of the previous Acharyas! So, he continues his translation services to date, not even wasting a moment, and he has been a huge inspiration for a lot of devotees all over his ISKCON world, and he is a walking library of Gaudiya Siddhanta!

So, we request devotees to take full advantage of this program. 

Over to His Holiness Bhanu Swami Maharaj.

HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:

sri-Krishna-chaitanya

prabhu nityananda

sri-adwaita gadadhara

shrivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare,

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura was a very prolific writer. Much of his writing is commentaries. He wrote a commentary on the whole Bhagavatam, for instance. He wrote a commentary on Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu. He wrote a commentary on Ujjvala Nilamani. He wrote a commentary on the Bhagavad Gita. Of course, his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita was the first commentary by a Gaudiya, following Lord Caitanya. So, in this way, he tried to explain the words of the Acharyas, like Rupa Gosvami.

And besides that, then he wrote some individual poetic works. Some are long and some are short. Some are about pastimes. Some are glorifications. Some are prayers. So, this is a short work, Vraja riti cintamani, a descriptive work about Vrindavan and what Vrindavan contains. So, of course, the title literally means a touchstone of the conduct in Vrindavan.

So, it is a short work and therefore it doesn’t contain everything about Vrindavan. But it gives us a glimpse of how to approach Vrindavan. So, of course, hearing about the place is beneficial for the Jiva. Of course, we can also live in the place. But if we can’t live in the place, at least we can hear about the place.

So, this is just a verse, I praise the land of Vraja where Krishna performed his pastimes. Liberated souls, upon hearing the descriptions of that place and its inhabitants, give up the joy of realizing Brahman and desire that place. So, by hearing about the place and the inhabitants of the place, we can surpass even, of course, material enjoyment and even impersonal liberation. 

We will often see in the Gaudiya literatures there is condemnation of Impersonal Brahman.

And perhaps, from modern point of view, we will look rather obsessive [Laughs]. For instance, in the Nectar of Devotion at the very beginning, in describing how one of the characteristics of Bhakti is to consider liberation insignificant. Then he quotes about 40 verses from different puranas and places just to show that actually Prema is superior to liberation [Laughs]. So similarly in the Sat Sandarbhas we will see Jiva Gosvami spends a lot of time defeating impersonal realization.

Of course, we will know that hundreds and hundreds of years before already, Ramanujacharya has done this. And a few hundred years after Ramanujacharya, then Madhvacharya did the same thing, he kept defeating the Impersonalists [Laughs]. But then still, after five hundred years or so, still [Laughs], followers of Lord Caitanya are still trying to defeat [Laughs]. And we can say the reason is that still at that time, even five hundred years afterwards, still the Mayavada influence was quite strong.

Of course, another point is that Bhakti is rare. If we go to the scriptures, we will find a lot of descriptions of Karma Yoga or Karma Kanda etc. We say about 20 scriptures or Smrtis – Dharma Sastras, dedicated to praising Varnashrama, or Karma Yoga etc. We have a whole section of the Vedas – Karma Kanda dedicated to Karma. Of course, we will find that, there is a Jnana Kanda in the Vedas also, that consists of Upanishads. But the Upanishads in general are pretty small [Laughs].

Karma is biggest, because it is most popular [Laughs]. Most people want to live in the material world. Fewer want to escape the world. But smaller than even the number of Jnana scriptures like Upanishads are the Bhakti scriptures. So definitely Bhakti scriptures are there, but less than the Jnana scriptures, which are less than the Karma scriptures. So therefore people will be more attracted to other things rather than hearing about Krishna and Bhakti. Nevertheless, the whole purpose of Bhagavatam and Caitanya Mahaprabhu is, to show that Bhakti is what everybody should follow and they should give up Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga.

But how can they do that, because that is their main attraction. So somehow Bhakti and Krishna and Vrindavan have to be made very attractive. So therefore, philosophically, the Gaudiya Acharyas will defeat Impersonalism. They will present Krishna and the pastimes of Krishna, the beauty of Krishna, to attract everybody. So through their works, a person can appreciate the greater joy in hearing about Krishna and Vrindavan than in Brahman or than in Karma [Laughs].

So at the beginning of the Nectar of Devotion, one of the rules is to ask questions about Sad Dharma. Sad Dharma means Bhakti, so we should ask about Bhakti. We don’t go to ask about how to enjoy in the material world or how to get liberation. But in the same sentence here, we find that one should reside in Dwaraka or other holy places or near the Ganga. This is one of the first, out of the ten Angas of Bhakti [Laughs]. This is among the first to go to the holy land. So there is an emphasis put upon living in the holy land, hearing about Vrindavan, etc.

So later on of course, also within after the first ten Angas of Bhakti, we have forty-four angas. Within the forty-four angas again, He praises up serving Mathura and other holy places, that’s one anga of Bhakti. He quotes from the Varaha Purana,“A fool who gives up Mathura and develops attraction for some other place will wander in the material world birth after birth [Laughs]”.  

Then when included in the sixty-four Angas of Bhakti, He gives five which are most important. But these five of course have already been mentioned within the sixty-four previously. But again at the end, then he gives five and among the five is residing in Mathura.

So He gives there a nice, very attractive description of the Mathura forest. He says, “The splendor of Mathura’s forest made beautiful by being situated on the bank of the Yamuna, where buzzing bees take shelter of newly blossoming Kadamba trees ornamented with unlimited sweetness, produces an extraordinary state of bhava in my mind”. So He mentions bhava because He says here that in the, out of the sixty-four Angas, five Angas very quickly produce bhava. This is one of the five Angas living in Mathura, so therefore develop bhava quickly [Laughs]. And thus we see the conduct of great devotees like the Gosvamis. They spent their life living there.

And then following the instructions in the Nectar of devotion, , after that would give up everything and go to Vrindavan [Laughs]. We see also in the description of Raganuga Bhakti, that living in Vrindavan is one of the major angas of Raganuga Bhakti. So in other words, by living in Vrindavan, it assists us in remembering Krishna and His pastimes. 

However, it is not possible for everybody to live in Vrindavan. We see that many of the followers of Lord Caitanya didn’t go to Vrindavan, they stayed in Navadvipa. Some stayed in Puri.

So what is the solution? If we can’t live in Vrindavan, so Jiva Gosvami says, well at least (if) you can’t physically go there, but at least you should mentally go there [Laughs]. And therefore, the authorities, the Gosvamis and others, they have written works to help us remember Vrindavan. 

So Rupa Gosvami, he gathered up quotations from different scriptures to glorify Vrindavan. There is a work called Mathura Mahatmya, which we are selling also somewhere here. Prabodhananda Saraswati also wrote a work, Vrindavan Mahimamrta, all glorifying Vrindavan. And of course, Vishvanath Chakravarti Thakura has written this work. And Baladeva Vidyabhusan has written a work called Aishwarya Goloka, which is similar to this. It is called Aishwarya Kadambini. So he describes Goloka, but with a little bit of Aishwarya mixed into it [Laughs]. So through hearing about these works and studying these works, we can get a little attraction for Vrindavan and the people of Vrindavan. So even if we don’t live there, we can at least study these works and start remembering Vrindavan.

So in his second verse, Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur praises Caitanya Mahaprabhu because through Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one gets access to Vraja. So he describes Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the form of rasa. He is incomparable bliss, without beginning and end. Why? of course, because he is Krishna, but he also takes up the mood of Radha, who has got the highest rasa. So Lord Caitanya of course was Krishna with the mood of Radha, but also with the mood of a devotee. So through giving respect to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we get access to Vraja because we get access to Radha.

As Prabhupada says, we chant Hare Krishna, so we approach the Shakti of Krishna, Radha, to get to Krishna [Laughs]. But even Radha is difficult to approach. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the way we get to Radha and then we get to Krishna. That is also why in deity worship, if we have Radha Krishna deities, we first have to worship Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So we approach Radha Krishna through Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We also say that actually you cannot understand Radha and Krishna unless you go through Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

So therefore, Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur gives all his respects to Caitanya Mahaprabhu. In this way, Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur is following the prescribed method. Of course, Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur is famous because he presents a lot of rasa. And rasa implies spontaneity and lack of rules. But we see that Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur, full of rasa, always refers to scripture. In other words, he may be spontaneous, but he is always within the limits of scripture.

That of course is one of the initial angas of Bhakti, also out of the 64 angas. So that is Rupa Gosvami quotes from Skanda Purana to show that we should follow rules. And we follow after not only the scripture but the previous devotees.

Verse 3:

kāvyaṁ kaveḥ kāvyatayā prasiddhaṁ

kāvyasya kāvyaṁ ca yato’pi kāvyam |

tad eva kāvyaṁ mama kāvya-kāvyaṁ

vrajaika-kāvyaṁ param astu kāvyam ||3||

Translation:

May I be able to write excellent verses describing only Vraja, since such verses are the only poetry.  A poet’s verses become famous by poetic skill and become the essence of poetry when they concern Vraja.

So this verse says one should follow the scripture rules which give the highest benefit and are devoid of hardship. And it is by following those rules that previous devotees progress. So Rupa Gosvami among the rules of devotion, 64 Angas says you have to follow the rules, you have to follow scripture[Laughs], even if it is Raganuga Bhakti.

So therefore Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur, though he is also full of rasa, he refers to scripture. And when he writes his commentaries on Bhagavatam and other works, he is not just putting forth his own ideas [Laughs], he always refers to scripture. When he writes original works like this work or his pastimes of Krishna, it is also based upon scripture. So we should not think that he is just imagining something or making something up when he writes his poetic work.

So therefore Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur offers his respect to Lord Caitanya and also to Rupa Gosvami, Krishna das Kaviraja and other great authorities. He is never independent. So here he says, I have a  descriptions of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Rupa Gosvami. So he is never  adding to it and giving a higher understanding or better understanding of whatever they have said.

And great devotees like Krishna das Kaviraja have presented descriptions and that mood he contemplates. I contemplate that mood that they have described in their works. So in other words, he is not inventing, he is inspired by those previous Acharyas.

So then he begins to glorify Vrindavan. Of course, it is not material, it is a spiritual place. But Vrindavan is even superior to Vaikuntha. So generally the goal of people who are devotees who would be Vaikuntha, obviously they want to go beyond Brahman so then the immediate goal is Vaikuntha. So that is plentifully mentioned in the different Puranas. But the devotees of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they want to go to Vrindavan. This of course is described in some scriptures, but it is a rare description. But the devotees of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Krishna, they desire that abode and they consider it much superior to Vaikuntha.

So he says, what is the value of millions and millions of Vaikunthas and millions and millions of Universes? So in other words, everything in the material world and even in the spiritual world is useless. In the spiritual world, Goloka is much superior. So everything is included within Vrindavan. Whatever you want, you can get in Vrindavan. Just as Krishna includes everybody else [Laughs], he expands himself unlimitedly into for all the devotees. And all the other forms of the Lord are within. So similarly everything else is within Vrindavan. And it satisfies every devotee.

So this is also expressed of course in Rupa Gosvami’s work, Upadesamrita. So of course there he says that, the holy place of Mathura is spiritually superior to Vaikuntha. And superior to Mathura is the transcendental forest of Vrindavan because of Krishna’s rasa lila. So everything in the spiritual world is wonderful. But just as different forms of the Lord are also wonderful, still we put Krishna in the highest position. So though the whole of Vaikuntha is wonderful, we put Vrindavan in the highest position. Of course, Mathura also is high, because Krishna was in Mathura [Laughs]. But Vrindavan is even higher, Why? Because this is the Purnatama Krishna, the full Krishna. In Mathura, He is Purnatara, almost perfect. And in Dwaraka a little less perfect. So of course, all the forms of Krishna are superior to all the other forms. But nevertheless, the Vrindavan form of Krishna is the highest and therefore Vrindavan is the highest.

So people will of course ask, Ok, you are praising Vrindavan and Goloka etc. but where is this in the scriptures? Because you are supposed to refer to scriptures. So of course if we look at Brahma Samhita itself, at the beginning, there is a description there and then it begins to describe Goloka. However some people are not satisfied with that. What is Brahma Samhita? We don’t know that scripture [Laughs]. So in his commentary on the Brahma Samhita, Jiva Gosvami quotes from Hari Vamsa. And Hari Vamsa is a supplement to the Mahabharata. So this is well known among scholars and authors etc.

And of course at the end of Brhad Bhagavatamrta, Sanatana Gosvami also is talking about Vaikuntha and Goloka and then he also gives a series of quotes and he includes this quotation from Hari Vamsa in Brhad Bhagavatamrita. He says,

”

• “Above Vaikuntha is the planet of the cows – Goloka. Which is protected by the Sadhyas or the perfected devotees. That great planet is infinitely expansive. It pervades the unlimited spiritual sky.” – Hari Vamsa.

• “That planet is above all others and there you are to be as Krishna as it is achieved by intense concentration of the heart.”  – Hari Vamsa. 

So this place is the highest and we should not think it is material, it is spiritual. And within that place then we have its inhabitants, that is Krishna and His devotees. So that place is described as “Cit eka rupam”, it is pure – “Cit”, it is not dense matter like this. We know that Krishna has His “Cit” Shakti. So through His Cit Shakti everything in the spiritual world is spiritual, that is conscious.

We should of course distinguish this from the Jiva, Jiva is also conscious. But Jiva has come from a different Shakti – Tathastha Shakti. So Cit Shakti is a little different [Laughs]. And of course, we also say that Radharani is the Hladini Shakti which is part of the Cit Shakti, so very special concentration of Cit. But part of the Cit Shakti is the Sandhini Shakti. So the Sandhini Shakti produces the Dhama, this produces Vaikuntha and Goloka. So the whole place Vrindavan is Sandhini Shakti manifestation.

And then within that area we have Supreme Lord Krishna with His spiritual body and we have all the devotees who may be Jivas, Nitya siddhas, etc. So the place is Cit, but it may look like it is material because it has got trees and rivers and everything in it. And all the people there are also Cit, they are also spiritual not material but they may look material.

So of course in Vaikuntha, if you view and experience Vaikuntha then you will understand yes it is spiritual because we see all this opulence, wealth and whatever. But if you enter Goloka, Vrindavan then we have cowherds, we have cows, we have fields, we have rivers, it looks quite different. And we have people making baskets, we have people making pots, we have people milking the cows, it looks quite different from Vaikuntha. So in that sense it looks quite like the material world. We have birds, we have deer running around, we have bees buzzing, etc.

Because of that confusion when Brahma came down and looked at Krishna after he had killed Aghasura and Krishna was with the cowherd boys in the fields, he thought, well, this looks like an ordinary cowherd boy eating with His friends. So he thought ok, Krishna looks like he is a material child and the cowherd boys are also material. So then he tried to play a trick and he took all the cowherd boys and the cows and hid them in a cave and put them to sleep. But it is explained actually Brahma could not even touch the cowherd boys or the calves because they are spiritual and Brahma had a material body, he cannot touch them. So then, who he put in the cave? That was not the real cowherd boys or the calves, they were in their spiritual realm and then these were some maya forms that Krishna had created.

So even Brahma may think that Krishna and all the people in Vrindavan are material, what to speak of others? But actually they are the most exalted persons. This is actually the goal of the first part of the Bhrhad Bhagavatamrta. The question is asked, who are the highest devotees? And after going to the material world to great kings etc and then going up to Svarga Loka and then going up to Brahma Loka and then going to Shiva Loka and then going to Vaikuntha, finally the highest devotees are in Goloka [Laughs]. And in Goloka then the highest devotees are the Gopis.

So as I said they look material even to Brahma and the reason is that they have a very friendly relationship with Krishna, not with awe and reverence. So it is because of that friendliness without that reverence that they express the greatest devotion. And the greatest devotees simply because they don’t see Krishna as God. Externally people see them as ordinary people interacting.

This is a quote from Nectar of Devotion. So mother Yasoda begins to speak. So she says, 

“Because I, Yasoda and Nanda, my husband have worshipped Vishnu constantly, Putana and other demons have been destroyed. The two Arjuna trees were pushed over by the wind. I saw with my own eyes that Govardhana was held up by my husband along with Balarama’s help. And this is because they worshipped Vishnu, they got the power to hold up the mountain. How would it be possible for my baby to perform these difficult tasks?”

– Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu

So all the people of Vrindavan think of Krishna as a small child. They don’t think of him as a Supreme Lord with powers. If this is happening, Vishnu is doing all this, not Krishna.

So as I said these are the highest devotees in the highest dhama. But they think themselves the lowest. So this looks a little bit contradictory, if they are the highest, how can they be the lowest? And the reason is they consider themselves to be material persons even.

It would be difficult for the people in Vaikuntha, that is the guards and , to think, oh I am just a material person because they are serving this Lord Vishnu on a throne. But the people of Vrindavan, they have a very humble attitude, the most humble attitude of all.

So this is explained by Sanatana Gosvami in Brhad Bhagavatamrta also. Having devotional service is far different from the disciplines such as Karma, Jnana and Yoga. At every stage of bhakti they are indifferent to these processes. And the root of their activity is dainya or humility. And dainya means, one thinks oneself exceptionally incapable and low, even if one has the highest qualities. So Sanatana Gosvami remarks that the people of Vrindavan, they are the highest, higher than other devotees in the spiritual world but they think themselves the lowest of all. 

So the people of Vrindavan think themselves the lowest and then highest people in Vrindavan are the gopis, so they think themselves the lowest of all. So the higher the Prema, the more the dainya, the more the humility. So the gopis have the highest Prema, they also have the most humility. And Radha is the highest gopi, she has the most humility of all.

So the devotees also control Krishna. He is controlled by their humility. They are playing as material persons, Krishna ] like He is a material person. But this interaction between them produces the highest rasa. That rasa is sweet.

So Krishna of course is supreme lord, He is the ultimate Ishvara, controller. But the devotees control the Lord. At the very beginning of Nectar of devotion, when Rupa Gosvami describes the six unique qualities of the devotee, then the sixth quality is Krishna akarshini.

So that means that devotee attracts Krishna and His associates. Of course Prema can exist in devotees of Vishnu or Narsimhadeva or anyone . They control the lord in one sense. And thus Ambarish is able to control Vishnu and Vishnu gives him His Sudarshan chakra to protect him.

But that control reaches a much higher level between Krishna and His devotees. And thus we will find extraordinary pastimes like mother Yasoda tying up Krishna. Or Krishna begging from the gopis [Laughs]. So the control of Krishna by the devotees reaches an extreme level. So all these pastimes within Vrindavan are the sweetest. And thus they can become very attractive to everybody.

Verse 12:

vṛndāvanaṁ gokula-dhāma-goṣṭhaṁ

vrajaṁ ca nāmāni śubhāni yasya |

tadīya-lokīyam acintya-kṛtyaṁ

vāñchāmi kiñcid dayayaiva teṣām ||12||

Translation:

By the mercy of the inhabitants of Vraja I desire to describe, know and attain, to a small degree, this place called Vṛndāvana, Gokula or Vraja, the people residing there, and their inconceivable activities.

They may appear material, but if we get the mercy of devotees and Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the Acharyas, then we can access them and we can develop an attraction for Vrindavan.

Verse 13:

tac cātyacintyaṁ cid-ananya-sāraṁ

cid-anya-bhāsaṁ ca tad ekam eva |

avāntarāneka-vibhedam ekaṁ

grāmā araṇyāni gavāṁ nivāsāḥ ||13||

Translation:

This place is completely inconceivable, the essence of pure spirituality, but appears to be material.  It is one spiritual entity, but has many divisions–villages, forests and sheds for the cows.

So though Goloka and Vrindavan is the highest point in the spiritual world, it also mercifully appears within the material world. When Krishna appears, then his dhama also appears within the material world.

So therefore even though it appears within the material world and looks very material, actually the Vrindavan in the material world is also spiritual. But just as Krishna appears in the material world to a material person like Sishupala, he looks material. So a person looking with material eyes looks at Vrindavan, he will also see a material place. So we have to have qualification, spiritual eyes to see the Vrindavan in the material world.

Okay fine. Hare Krishna.

Q & A

1) Hare Krishna Maharaj, you have mentioned that Brahma is not confined the spiritual form of the cowherd boys and calves. So, but when Brahma was seeing from there, he was seeing the four handed Vishnu forms in all the forms. So where were the original spiritual forms were there that time, during that one year period?

HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Where were the spiritual forms?

Like Krishna who is unlimited and expands in unlimited universes in the spiritual world simultaneously, so His associates also by the will of the Lord expand in different universes and they are also simultaneously in the spiritual world. So Krishna can make the cowherd boys disappear, but that doesn’t mean anything, because they are in some other universe, they are also in the spiritual world simultaneously [Laughs]. Krishna and His associates and the place are unlimited by normal space and time.

2)The significance of the Gopas is that they don’t see Krishna as God. We see in the second offense to consider name of Lord Shiva, Lord Brahma to be equal to or independent of the name Lord Vishnu. It is considered as an offence, and here the cowherd boys see it and that is the highest Prema. What should be the right understanding Maharaj?

When we say that the cowherd boys and others see Krishna as material, of course we are not saying that they look like Him, as Sishupala looks at Krishna as material, it doesn’t mean the same thing [Laughs]. Sishupala seeing Krishna as material arises from his inimical attitude, hostility.

When the cowherd people see Krishna as material, it is not out of hostility, but it is out of affection. So when we say they see Him as a material being, it doesn’t mean they see Him, ok Krishna has got just a material body and He is subject to birth and death, they don’t see him like that. But they see Him as their equal. We are all people, we are living here in Vrindavan as cowherds. And of course identifying themselves as cowherds, we are Vaisyas etc., it kind of looks like it is material in that sense.

So the aspects of materialism that are carried on into the spiritual world are there as only props for their rasa. So they have a so called material identity, but that’s only a means by which they can express their rasa with Krishna. Whereas in the material world, people are limited by their ignorance and then they think of material body and what their identity and their caste and varna etc, etc different [Laughs].

3)Hare Krishna Maharaj, Pranams Maharaj. In the beginning you were mentioning that our Acharyas have been describing about the glories of the spiritual world so that Jivas will get attracted to the glories of the spiritual world and they will be transmitted from getting attracted to Mayavada or Impersonal Brahman to Spiritual world. Then we see that, then we distinguish between Vaikuntha and Goloka. In Vaikuntha we can say people are getting attracted because it is very glorious and it has Aishwarya Bhava. But again when we speak about Goloka, it again brings to the point, it looks like as you have mentioned, it looks like a material world. So it means that we bring the Jivas to the level that they can enjoy in Vaikuntha. When they go to Vaikuntha and when they come to Krishna Loka, they can give enjoyment to Krishna. So in that sense there is a subtle increment or subtle stage of development in showing the attraction towards the Jiva about the spiritual world.

Well as I said, when we talk about material, it doesn’t really mean they see Krishna materially. They may think of themselves as material beings. Like the cowherd people sometimes say, oh we are subject to birth and death etc. in the material world. But it actually doesn’t happen. They don’t take birth and death.

So that assuming that they are material is also a symptom of their humility. So when the Prema becomes intense, the humility also increases. And thus, in Vrindavan, the Prema is more intense than in Vaikuntha. So therefore, they have  Goloka and Vrindavan and they consider themselves low [Laughs]. We say lower than the people think of themselves in Vaikuntha. But as I said, that thinking of themselves as low etc. is not a material concept. It evolves simultaneously with their intense Prema. So it’s not really material.

4) Sorry Maharaj, sorry for not presenting my question in a proper way. My question is, in Vaikuntha, this impersonalist, they will accept, ok Krishna, we get there, the common souls will get attracted towards spiritual world. But when we are presenting Goloka, Vrindavana, when we distinguish that this is like this, so how the common souls will get attracted, it looks like a material world. Should we explain them, this Vaikuntha Loka, in Vaikuntha Loka, we can enjoy with Lord or we can serve and enjoy with the Lord in Aishwarya Bhava. But in Goloka, we are completely meant for Lord’s enjoyment. In that way we can explain or why do we distinguish Vaikuntha and Goloka when we are presenting to common people.

Well, we have to present things according to the person’s qualification. And thus when Caitanya Mahaprabhu was with the Pujaris in the Ranganath Temple, they were attracted to Vishnu. and even if He talked about Krishna and Rasalila, they weren’t very attracted. So therefore He didn’t try to convince them. So of course by constant association, whatever people may develop attraction for Krishna. But for them even after four months with Lord Caitanya Himself, nothing happened. But then the son, Gopalabhatta, he became a devotee [Laughs].

So some people are attracted to the greatness of God. Some people may naturally be more attracted to the informal aspect of God as Krishna. Other people, by association with devotees of Krishna, may also develop that, even though they have initially some attraction to the greatness of God. So if they are not attracted, they can just continue their worship. But if they have a little attraction, by more exposure to Krishna and His pastimes, they can develop that attraction.

5) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj, the people in Vrindavan, they are manifestation of the Cit Shakti of the Lord. So that means they are completely transcendental. And they don’t have any material covering. But they still are considering as like ordinary material activities happening there. So does it mean that they are fully aware that Krishna is transcendental, Goloka is transcendental, they are transcendental. But due to their Prema, it is covering their understanding.

Whatever is suitable for their particular rasa will be revealed, whatever is unsuitable would be covered. So sometimes we will see the people of Vrindavan, even the Gopis will say, “Oh Supreme Lord, Oh Achyuta, Oh Adokshaja [Laughs], Oh this!..” whatever they will call out the Lord’s name. But that is a temporary manifestation, then it gets covered over again and they forget it. So whatever nourishes the rasa will be revealed, whatever is an obstacle will be covered.  

So Yashoda saw the universe in Krishna when He ate dirt. When Krishna ate some dirt, then Yashoda saw the universe in Krishna. “Oh and then she said, Oh this is the Supreme Lord[Laughs], I have to worship Him[Laughs].” But then Krishna thought, “Oh now she is not going to feed me anymore.” So, Yogamaya covered up her realization and then she thought, “Oh! Krishna must be afflicted by some demons or some ghosts or something, so let’s do some puja and get rid of the ghosts.”

6) Maharaj in Vrindavan , it appears like Vrindavan pastimes are very much similar to the material world. So the highest looks very similar to the material world but they are transcendental. Is that the right understanding?

It is similar in that there is intimacy. And there is not a conception that we are in the spiritual world and this is the Supreme Lord. But of course it is much different from the material world. Because they experience eternally the highest bliss. And even their lamentation is an expression of the highest bliss.

Devotees : HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai !!!