Seminar on Pure Bhakti | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Auckland | March 13, 2025
So, this is a short explanation of bhakti, because bhakti is the process as we’re following, it is important that we understand what bhakti is. We commonly use the word, but we should have an exact definition. Just as in any philosophy, or science, or any type of knowledge, we need very exact definitions when we talk about things. When we don’t have exact definitions, then the logic that we use becomes a little bit blurred, and even the goal of what we’re doing becomes a little bit blurred.
So Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu is one of the major works in the Gaudiya Sampradaya, and its aim is to define bhakti, and to define the goal of bhakti, which is rasa, and to define and describe rasa. So of course, the idea of rasa is there in material philosophy in India. They have Natya Sastra, which is a study of arts and dramatics. So they discuss rasa there, but that’s material rasa. But in the spiritual world, we also have rasa, and this is explained in detail by Rupa Goswami in this work, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. The word, of course, is mentioned in Taittiriya Upanishad. There it says, raso vai saha, the Lord is rasa. Then it says, the Upanishad says, if you attain rasa, you become blissful. So therefore, bliss and rasa are equated also. So if you want to be blissful, you have to have a rasa [Laughs].
So it’s a very important concept in the Gaudiya Sampradaya. In other groups, other Sampradayas, Vaishnava Sampradayas, they don’t talk much about rasa. They just talk, okay, we have a devotion to God, etc. But they don’t go into depth and analyse rasa as the Sampradaya of Lord Caitanya does. So it’s a very important concept for us, and a unique contribution, too, in discussion of bhakti. So this work is a primary work, and we see that Srila Prabhupada also, when he began translating, of course he did Bhagavad Gita, and he had done first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. And then when he was in America, we saw the appearance of Krishna book and Nectar of devotion [Laughs], and teaching of Lord Caitanya. So those were like the main books for the first five years of the movement [Laughs]. And later on, of course, then the Bhagavatam went further, Caitanya Caritamrta came out, etc. But he chose this Nectar of devotion, Bhakti rasamrita Sindhu, because it is one of the primary works. So, of course, when we read the work in English, it’s maybe a little bit difficult for us to understand the point sometimes. But it’s actually very methodically arranged, the whole work.
It’s actually divided into four parts. So we have oceans. We have oceans on the earth. We have the Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, what other ocean? Indian Ocean? Southern Ocean, what are they called? Antartic Ocean? I don’t know what they call that [Laughs]. So we have a few oceans. So the whole work is Bhakti rasamrita Sindhu Ocean, and it’s got its parts. It’s got the eastern section and whatever.
So we have the Purva Vibhag, the first section, like that. We have the next section, southern section. We get the western section. We get the northern section of the ocean, just like oceans in the material world [Laughs], like this [Laughs]. And they have particular topics. So the first section, which is the part that we usually study, like in Bhakti Sastri, they study the first section only, that’s the eastern section. This is Bhakti in general, and then discussion of Sadhana Bhakti, Bhava Bhakti, and Prema Bhakti. So it’s more of a general introduction to the work, discussing all about Bhakti and its types.
Then the next section, the southern section, defines rasa. And rasa is divided into five ingredients. So these five ingredients are discussed. Then the western section goes with not just ingredients, but the different types of rasa. So we’ve got Santa rasa, Dasya rasa, Sakhya rasa, Vatsalya rasa, Madhurya rasa, like that. And these are all described. And then the northern section. And of course, each rasa is analysed in terms of its ingredients, the five ingredients for each one. And then we have the northern section. This deals with the seven secondary rasas. So most of the work is about rasa, actually. And only this first section, the eastern section, is about Bhakti and Sadhana Bhakti and Bhava Bhakti, etc. So it’s primarily about rasa. But, of course, this first part is important because we can only get to rasa if we go through the stages of Sadhana first, and then Bhava, and then we get to Prema, and then we have rasa. So the Sadhana is also important. So that’s in the eastern section.
So, to begin the work, of course, with all these Sanskrit works, we get Mangalacarana, you know, verses to invoke auspiciousness, and to offer respects to Acharyas, etc. So this work also starts out like this. This particular verse is very famous because it’s also quoted in Caitanya Caritamrita. And it actually is like a nutshell or a summary of the Nectar of Devotion. And what it does is, the first verse is a glorification of… Of course, it should be a glorification of rasa because the work is rasamrita-sindhu, ocean of rasa. So it is about rasa, but the very form of rasa is Krishna. So therefore, it’s a glorification of Krishna, who is all rasas. So the very first line is ‘akhila-rasamrta-murtih’. Krishna is the very form of all sweet rasas. Why all sweet rasas? Because, of course, and why sweet rasas ? Because, as I mentioned, we have rasas in the material world also, but they’re not sweet [Laughs]. They end up causing problems to us [Laughs]. So these are eternally spiritual sweet rasas. And all rasas. Krishna is the very form of all rasas.
So we have five primary rasas and seven secondary rasas. That makes 12 rasas. That’s Akhila rasa. And Krishna is the very form of all of those. So if we take any rasa, Krishna is the embodiment of that rasa. So he’s the embodiment of Madhurya rasa and Vatsalya rasa and Sakhya rasa, etc. plus all the secondary rasas, like humour. So if you want laughter and humour, Krishna is the very essence of humour and funniness [Laughs]. If we want astonishment, Krishna is the essence of astonishment. If we want bravery, virya, Krishna is the essence of all virya. So, in this way, the first line itself summarises the whole work in one sense. If we want to experience rasa, then we should worship Krishna. And we get all rasas.
All forms of the Lord are one in one sense. The Bhagavan has many forms, and they’re all one Bhagavan and they all have to be complete. They should have all rasas. But they don’t manifest all the rasas in the same way that Krishna manifests them. So that’s why, Krishna is the complete form of all rasas. For instance, if we have Vishnu in Vaikuntha. So he is also the form of all rasas in one sense. But there are certain rasas that he does not manifest much. So for the forms of Vishnu, we don’t see Vatsalya rasa. He has no mother and father in Vaikuntha. He is the highest person. Nobody else is there that’s above him with a stick and chasing him around or whatever. You see, he’s supreme. There’s no Sakhya rasa there [Laughs]. Not manifested. So he is all rasas, but not manifested in that particular form.
Same with Narasimhadeva . We don’t aspire for Madhurya rasa with Narasimhadeva [Laughs]. It looks like impossible. Of course, Lakshmi has Madhurya rasa with Narasimhadeva, but nobody else does. So all those different forms will manifest some of the rasas, but not completely. And not all of them in the same way that Krishna does, so he is akhila-rasamrta-murtih. That makes him svayam Bhagavan, he is the primary form of the Supreme Lord.
So the other three lines also describe Krishna in a rather clever way. By mentioning different Gopis. Of course, they’re all different rasas, but Rupa Goswami has chosen to describe Krishna in Madhurya rasa, in this particular verse, because it’s the highest rasa. So, he mentions different Gopis. Taraka, Pali, Syama, Lalita, and Radha. And they have different personalities, and different relationships with Krishna. So we start out with the most distant relationships. We have Taraka and Pali, who Krishna controls, by extending his beauty outwards. Those are a little bit indirect, and he’s controlling them. Then we get those who are closer. We get Syama, and we get Lalita. So Krishna is embraced by Syama and Lalita, Syama lalita. And then we get Radha, Radha preya, she is the dearest of all.
So, Krishna is described in relation to various Gopis. And Vidur, the second to the last word, refers to Krishna. Vidur jayati. Jayati means he is victorious, or he exists with all excellence, eternally. So Krishna, with all these Gopis, being the form of all rasas in their highest form, spreading out his beauty everywhere, embracing the Gopis, controlling them, he remains ever excellent. That’s the basic meaning of the verse.
So, of course, the esoteric meaning here is that, of course, Radha is the main person here. And in relation to Krishna and Radha, we have various types of Gopis in Madhurya rasa. So, of course, we also know that the second highest Gopi is actually Chandravali [Laughs]. But she’s also the enemy [Laughs], because she competes with Radha. So therefore, she’s put on the opposite side. She is the vipaksha, the enemy group. And with her are her group Pali, Padma, Saibya, etc. And these are well-known in the different lilas and described by the Goswamis. These names appear, and they’re helping Chandravali meet Krishna, and they’re opposing Lalita and Vishaka and arguing with them [Laughs]. So they’re the complete opposite. So in one sense, in comparison to Radha, they are on the opposite side. Radha has her group, her own group, that is, Lalita, Vishaka, and Astasakhis, and a whole group of Gopis. So they’re very close to Radha. Then we have friendly groups. They’re not in Radha’s group, and they have their own leaders, but they help Radha and Krishna meet, and they help defeat Chandravali and her group [Laughs]. So they are friendly groups, like Syamala.
Then we have others who are called the Tatastha which are borderline. They’re kind of neutral, but actually, they help out Chandravali and her group [Laughs], and defeat Radha. So we’ve got all these different groups there. So these are the ones that are mentioned here. We have Taraka, enemy group, Pali, they are the far groups. Syama is in the middle, helping Lalita, Radha’s group, and then Radha herself. So different types of Gopis all in Madhurya rasa. And the variation also helps to create the variety and flavour of Madhurya rasa.
So, of course, there was this word here, ‘Vidu’, which means Krishna or Vishnu, Supreme Lord. It also means the moon. Vidu is the moon. So we discussed how words have double meanings, and verses have double meanings, or whatever. So this is the whole verse has a double meaning [Laughs], which is obviously put there by Rupa Goswami himself, making two meanings. So it’s a glorification of the moon [Laughs]. And then all these words also describe the moon. So akhila-rasamrita-murti, the moon is the form of nectar. So in literature we see that the moon showers nectar, the moon is the source of rasa, in Bhagavad Gita. We have this idea of the nectar falling from the moon and creating rasa in plants, etc. So the moon is the source of all rasa [Laughs]. And it spreads out its rays everywhere. Taraka Pali means, Pali means a group or a pile or whatever. Taraka means stars. So the moon is spreading its rays over all the stars, etc like that. Prasrmara ruci ruddha taraka-palih and kalita syama lalita. So this refers to the dark night sky. Syama means darkness. Gentle.. lalita means gentle.
And Radha refers to a particular nakshatra. What is the nakshatra here? Vishaka nakshatra. Radha refers to Vishaka nakshatra. So each nakshatra, of course, is there in the sky. But the full moon, when it comes to a certain nakshatra, that will define the month. So we have Phalgun month with Phalgun nakshatra. The full moon is in Phalgun nakshatra, etc. Kartika is Kritika nakshatra. Mrigashirsha, Margashirsha month. Then the full moon is in Mrigashirsha nakshatra. So in Vishaka nakshatra, the Vaisakha month. That is springtime. So, of course, springtime is the romance season also [Laughs]. But also the Vishaka nakshatra is very bright. So, therefore, it is like Radha, who is the brightest of all the nakshatras, etc. Radha is the brightest of all gopis. And, of course, the spring season is there. And moon is close to this Vishaka nakshatra, which is very bright. And that creates a certain beauty in that combination of that bright nakshatra with the full moon and it is in the spring season [Laughs]. So that is the other meaning of this verse. It is a description of the moon in the spring. In Vishaka nakshatra, the sky is dark. And the light of the moon is spreading out over all the sky and covering the stars. So that enhances the idea of Krishna with all the gopis. So, in this way, that first verse indicates the spring.
Then Rupa Goswami spends a few verses glorifying devotees. And he says that Sanatana Goswami devotees are like makaras in the ocean. So the makara, sometimes we say shark, but that is not a very romantic word [Laughs].
Makara is a rather mythical fish for us. It has got an elephant trunk and bird feet and a peacock tail and whatever. So it is quite a unique creature. But it is said to be the king of the fish. So it is the ruler of the ocean. So the devotees are the rulers of the ocean of rasa. They are swimming in the ocean very nicely. Because fish swim in the ocean, so the devotees naturally enjoy the water of the ocean of rasa. We find this makara represented in various forms. In India, you will see these little weird things in Srirangam [Laughs]. Makaras or whatever. Krishna has makara earrings. He has a little trunk like this. Flute, I think, is on the edge of the flute. He has a little makara. And even in like, this is from Thailand, I guess. It also represents the design of makara. So it is also representing love [Laughs].
So anyway, Rupa Goswami also describes how the book will smother the tongues. This Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu will smoother the tongues. It will stop the followers of Jñāna and karma from criticising [Laughs]. So they are like little fires that shoot up in the ocean. The ocean comes and covers them all up. Because followers of Jñāna will criticise rasa. Because for rasa, we need a form of the Lord with qualities and pastimes. And the jnanis say, Brahman has no form and qualities at all. So they will criticise, Oh, you are imagining something, you know. That the Supreme is Krishna playing a flute and having rasa-lila. That is all maya [Laughs]. So by this work, he hopes to silence the followers of Jñāna .
Those who are into karma, of course, will take Krishna’s pastimes as material. And we will also try to enjoy like that in the material world. We can enjoy like Krishna is enjoying in Vrindavan. So again, to defeat them, Rupa Goswami portrays rasa in such a way that it is definitely spiritual. And you cannot imitate it in the material world. So in this way, he defeats the karmis.
So, now the main verse. This is the key verse of the whole work. Because it defines uttama-bhakti or pure bhakti. And every other definition in the work must include this definition. So usually we get a definition and we get other definitions. But they should not contradict each other. So this is the main definition. Every other definition will come under this definition. So we’ll have definitions of sadhana-bhakti. So that definition is definitely there. But it’s included within this definition. So we have to combine both of the definitions if we want to do sadhana. We can’t just look at sadhana. We have to look at this definition also, same with bhava and prema. So, very important. Only by doing this type of bhakti, uttama-bhakti, you can get to bhava and prema. So you can only realise the Nectar of devotion or Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu if you do this type of bhakti. If you do another type of bhakti, no, you don’t get the ocean [Laughs]. Don’t get to swim in the ocean. Don’t become a makara in the ocean. You become something else [Laughs]. So, a very important definition. This is also quoted in the purports of Bhagavatam. Also it’s in the Caitanya-caritamrta. So, very famous verse.
anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
So the last line is the primary part of the definition. What is uttama-bhakti? Uttama-bhakti of course means pure bhakti or supreme bhakti, like that. Uttama of course means also beyond ignorance. So it’s very pure. What is it? Krishna-anusilanam. Anusilanam means cultivating. So cultivating a relationship with Krishna. And how should it be? Favourable. Which means not with hatred, as Kamsa can cultivate a relationship with Krishna in hatred. So that’s not bhakti [Laughs]. So it has to be favourable. So, anukulyena. Yeah. So, that cultivation of Krishna, usually that cultivation is all hearing, chanting, or remembering. Yes, that is cultivating a relationship with Krishna through different activities. That’s called cesta-rupa-bhakti. We do various services. But when we get to bhava and prema, then we have what is called the sthayi-bhava. We establish a relationship with Krishna. Like in madhurya or sakhya, etc. And it’s continuous through all of our activities. So that emotional relationship is also a type of anusilanam. But it’s not action with body, etc, it’s your emotion. So that’s called bhava-rupa-bhakti. But both are classed as anusilanam, cultivation. However, in sadhana-bhakti, we don’t see this bhava-rupa-bhakti. It manifests in bhava stage, and then continues in prema. So, when we do sadhana, the cesta-rupa-bhakti will be prominent.
So we’re hearing, chanting, remembering, deity worship, all this is cesta-rupa-bhakti. This is a type of anusilanam. But it’s not the only one. So we get to bhava, we have the bhava-rupa-bhakti. That doesn’t mean that the cesta-rupa disappears. No, it also continues. If we still have a body, then we do our service, and hearing, chanting, remembering. And we develop a spiritual body, in all that also, we’re doing activities for Krishna. And in the spiritual world, of course, all the devotees are doing services for Krishna. Mother Yasoda is cooking for Krishna, and bathing Krishna, and decorating Krishna, etc. All this is service. That’s cesta-rupa. But she also has her vatsalya-bhava. That’s the bhava-rupa-bhakti. So when we do bhava and prema, we have both types of anusilanam. And in sadhana, we get primarily the cesta-rupa-bhakti.
So we have krishna-anusilanam. So we may ask, well, so uttama-bhakti means only for Krishna. And if I worship Vishnu, or Rama, or Narasimhadev, then it’s not uttama-bhakti. Answer is no. Krishna here means Krishna plus all the other forms [Laughs]. Because everything is in Krishna anyway. So you can worship any authorised form of the Lord, and you can get uttama-bhakti if it’s favourable. So it doesn’t mean Krishna. Krishna and all other forms. In fact, not only Krishna and all the other forms, even the devotees [Laughs]. So you can have service to devotees also included within Krishna-anusilanam. So you serve Hanuman, or Prahlad, or whatever, it’s also pure bhakti. So Krishna and his expansions, or others related to Krishna, that refers to the devotees of Krishna. So, of course, in Raganuga-bhakti, then the person, Vatsalya rasa, will serve Yasoda [Laughs]. So that’s not serving Krishna, but still is bhakti because you’re serving Yasoda.
So, the other word in the last line is anukulyena, which means favorability. We serve with favorability, or pleasing attitude towards Krishna. So that word, of course, favorability, some people will say, well, favorability means pleasing to Krishna. That sounds nice. You should be pleasing to Krishna, or whatever. However, we do have examples where Krishna may not be pleased. An example is Mother Yasoda taking the milk off the fire and putting Krishna down. Krishna was not pleased. Krishna got very angry. But is it bhakti or not? If Mother Yasoda puts Krishna down, is it bhakti? And Krishna gets angry. But then we say, well, Krishna gets angry, but Mother Yasoda’s always doing favourable service for Krishna, so we can’t say she’s not doing bhakti. And it’s true. So whether Krishna’s angry or not angry it doesn’t really matter. If the devotion is there to serve Krishna, then that is bhakti. Doesn’t depend on whether Krishna is pleased or not, in one sense.
On the other hand, we’ll see that even if the Lord is angry, like in the case when he kicks the pot [Laughs], or whatever Mother Yasoda and the yoghurt flows out, that’s anger, and it’s still bhakti. But also not in all cases, because we’ll see that Narasimhadeva is angry at Hiranyakasipu. But that’s not bhakti at all [Laughs]. Why? Because Hiranyakasipu is an enemy. He doesn’t like Vishnu at all. He doesn’t like Narasimhadeva at all. Enemy, so that’s not anukulya. So, the deciding factor here is not so much if Krishna is pleased or not pleased, or angry or not angry, whatever. It is the attitude of the devotee. So if the person’s attitude is to please Krishna, whether he’s angry or not, that’s bhakti. So Mother Yasoda’s constant aim is to please Krishna. Therefore, even if Krishna gets angry, it is bhakti. On the other hand, Hiranyakasipu has no aim of pleasing Krishna at all [Laughs]. And, of course, Narasimhadeva is angry and tears him apart, that’s not bhakti. So therefore, when we say anukulya, it should be that the devotee has an attitude to please Krishna.
OK, the last line, or the first line. Anyābhilāṣitā śūnyaṁ Jñāna karmādy anāvṛtam. So this is an expansion of the last line of favourable bhakti. What does it do? It excludes other desires, abhilāsa. So anya anyābhilāsa, other desires, it should be sunya, devoid of other desires. What would the desires be? Desires other than serving Krishna. So I serve Krishna, but I have a desire to get something material from Krishna. I will serve him, but I expect to get something. Or, I will serve Krishna to get liberation. So that is other desire. So bhakti has to be devoid of that. So it’s devoid of all desires for anything except the desire to please Krishna. That’s the definition of pure bhakti.
And then he adds this, Jñāna karmādy anāvṛtam It is not, anāvṛtam means not covered or not obstructed by Jñāna, karma, etc. He does not say sunya. It’s not devoid of it, but not obstructed by it. So this permits you to do actions of Jñāna or karma. But it should not obstruct the bhakti, the pure bhakti. So in other words, there should be no desire to get material things. Usually, karma is for getting material desires. We can do the karma, but if we have no desire to get material results, fine. It doesn’t obstruct bhakti. You could do them, those karmas. Same with Jñāna. The normal Jñāna we do is for liberation, impersonal liberation. But if we’re devoid of that desire for liberation, and we’re doing aṅgas of Jñāna, like sense control or whatever or yoga or whatever, and it doesn’t obstruct the bhakti by having other desires, fine. You could do it.
So therefore, along with the process of bhakti, we can do other processes as long as they don’t interfere with the purity of the bhakti. So that’s why all those words are there [Laughs]. So unobstructed by impersonal Jñāna, materialistic rituals of karma, or other unfavourable acts. So the desire is to please Krishna. So what happens? Why we have to exclude everything, whatever? As I said, it’s with that pure bhakti that we can end up with rasa. In the spiritual world, we can have dasya, sakhya, vatsalaya, madhurya, etc.
If we mix Jñāna, a little bit of Jñāna with the bhakti, we still have a little desire for liberation or whatever, we end up with śānta rasa. Which is kind of natural, because Jñāna means you want to be very peaceful, don’t want any disturbance, etc. So you get śānta rasa in the spiritual world, which is very peaceful. Many of the Jñānis, if they look at the pastimes of Krishna, they will criticise, what is this? Gopis are crying, and they’re falling on the ground, and they’re going to extreme emotional states. What is this [Laughs]? It’s useless [Laughs]. We don’t want that. We want bliss, which is pure and peaceful. So that influences the bhakti, and you end up with śānta rasa instead.
If we continue our bhakti, and we’ve got a mixture of karma, that is, we still have a desire to get something, enjoyment out of our activities. Of course, by this mixture, eventually we do get purified. But because of that mixture, the bhakti is weaker. And then Krishna looks at those desires and says, OK, I’ll give you some of that. So therefore, he gives liberation, a little bit, in śānta rasa. You get a feeling of liberation and peace. And if you do karma with your bhakti, you end up in the spiritual world, and you get a very nice place to stay. A very nice house, very nice form, nice powers, etc [Laughs]. So this is sālokya, sārṣṭi, sārūpya . You can get all these things. but you don’t have the intensity of rasas. So therefore, that’s why pure bhakti gives you the rasas. The other ones, even if it’s mixed, you get a good result. You get better than liberation. You get better than svarga-loka or brahma-loka. But you don’t get the same as pure bhakti. So that’s why, at the beginning, Rupa Goswami emphasises this definition of pure bhakti. No other desire, etc. We get the obstructions there, and we may end up in these two forms.
So now we have uttama-bhakti, that’s the main definition. Then we get three sub-definitions, sadhana-bhakti, bhava-bhakti, and prema-bhakti. We can say a continuous growth, like a flower gradually blossoming. So it’s not different, but it’s just a greater manifestation of beauty in the flower. So it’s the same bhakti, but it manifests more and more wonderful qualities as we go on. So each of these types of bhakti will have its own definition. Also, sadhana-bhakti has a definition. Actually, in sadhana-bhakti, we have two types of bhakti, Vaidhi and Raganuga sadhana. They also have definitions within the main definition of sadhana-bhakti. Bhava-bhakti has a separate definition to distinguish it from sadhana-bhakti. And prema-bhakti has another definition to distinguish it from bhava-bhakti. But all are under the uttama-bhakti definition. All pure bhakti.
So, in the last part of this first section, in the first chapter, actually, first chapter of the first section, of the Eastern section, we have Rupa Goswami describing six unique qualities of bhakti. Kleshagni, Subhadha, Moksa-laghuta-krt, Sudurlabha, Sandrananda-visesatma, and Sri Krishnakarsani. We have six unique qualities of bhakti.
The first is kleshagni. Gni means hum, which means destroy. So, it destroys suffering, Klesha. That’s the first. What is klesha? What is suffering? So, it’s defined in three terms. Avidya, or ignorance, is the root cause, which gives us ahankara, identification with the material body. Papabija , which means the seed of sin. Desires, material desires for enjoyment. Then we get sin itself. We commit a sin, and then we get a reaction, which is the suffering, ultimate suffering. So, klesha refers not only to the suffering that we get, but the causes of the suffering. And the subtle cause is avidya, or ignorance, giving rise to material desires, giving rise to actions, which gives rise to results. Of course, even papabija could also refer to punyabija also [Laughs]. So, papa and punya are also considered bad. Even punya is considered bad [Laughs], because it gives you reactions, and binds you to the material world.
So, therefore, this avidya gives rise to the concept of I am this material body, and I want to enjoy, etc. And we get, I want this, I hate this, I like this, I fear this, I want to destroy this, I want to create this, etc. All sorts of desires come out. We do actions, and then we get karma. Like that.
So, when we get to the action, then the action may take some time to give us results. So, generally, when we talk about karma, it means, I do an action now. I don’t get the result now. Of course, I do get results. We don’t call them results in this life, karma. The result will come in the next life. The real result. Or next life, or next life. So, we get into a certain position, or whatever. We get some experience of pain, when somebody hits us, or something like that. Then we hit the person back, that’s our action. And then, in another body, we will get the reaction. Somebody will inflict pain on us. So, it may take some time, in another body, to do this. So, the time between doing the act, and getting the result, may be a long time, maybe 20 births, 50 births, a long time. So, it’s just like, bhakti is growing like a plant. So, your karmas are growing like little plants, also [Laughs]. And gradually, they’re getting bigger and bigger. Finally, they manifest as pain, in your material body, at this point. Others are going to be stored, and they’ll mature next life, next life, next life, etc.
So, there’s a series of stages. Aprarabdha, Kuta, Bija, and Prarabdha. Prarabdha is experiencing it now [Laughs]. That’s my Prarabdha karma. The future of this lifetime, next year, next year, next year, I’ll also get karmas. But I’m not experiencing them now. So, these are the Bija. They’re almost ready. And in next year, next year, next year, they’ll become Prarabdha in a few years, so, that’s the Bija. The Aprarabdha and the Kuta will not manifest in this lifetime at all. So, the Kutas will manifest, maybe, next lifetime or whatever. The Aprarabdha , many, many lifetimes later. So, that’s the subtlest influence. We don’t know they exist, even though they’re there. But we don’t know they exist. The Kutas, slightly, maybe, giving an effect in this lifetime, but not manifested until next lifetime. The Bijas, of this lifetime, but future. And the Prarabdha, now. So, in other words, it takes some time for the karma to manifest, once it’s started, until finally we get the result. So, these are mentioned. The Aprarabdha , Kuta, Bija, Prarabdha.
So, Bhakti destroys all of those. It may take some time. And we do Bhakti, Bhajanakriya, etc. But by the end of Asakti, and Bhava stage, they should all be gone. Karma should be gone by that time. So, in a sense, Kleshagni. But, not only will it destroy the reactions, Bhakti will destroy the papabija, the desires. More than that, it will destroy the ignorance, which is the cause of all that. So, it destroys the avidya, papabija and the papa, with all its results. All that is destroyed by Bhakti.
We can say that, well, of course, karma does not make any attempt to say it destroys things. It modifies, by doing Prāyaścitta, atonements, we can modify our bad karmas, and we get good karmas. But still we get karmas [Laughs]. And if you get all good karmas, or very good karmas, and very little bad karmas, you go to Svargaloka or Brahmaloka, but you still have karma. So, Karma Yoga does not destroy anything. It just gives a better balance of good karmas, or punyas, over bad karmas that’s all it does. It doesn’t destroy.
Jñāna and Yoga ultimately destroy karmas, because without destroying the karmas, we don’t get liberation. So, they give liberation, but after a long time [Laughs]. And, not only that, in order to destroy, how they destroy all the karmas, etc., they do not destroy the prārabdhas. So, Jñāna never claims to destroy your prārabdha karmas. So, whatever you’re born with, you have to suffer in your life, and Jñāna is not going to interfere with that. So, if you’re born as a śūdra, you remain a śūdra this life, and you can’t do anything about it. So, whatever you’re born with, you have to keep that in your life. Bhakti doesn’t say that. So, if you’re born a śūdra, you do bhakti, you destroy your karma. You’re no longer a sudra [Laughs]. But a śūdra has to remain a śūdra, according to Jñāna , and you cannot destroy that karma at all. So, this is the unique quality of bhakti. It destroys even prārabdha karmas. And that’s why in Bhagavatam its said, that a person who chants the name of the Lord purely once, even if he’s a dog-eater, suddenly, he’s better than a brāhmaṇa . What happened? He destroyed all of his prārabdha karma of being a chandala or whatever, and he’s better than a brāhmaṇa , and he can do the sacrifices, etc. How is that? Because prārabdha karma got destroyed. But Jñāna and Yoga will not say that. You leave your karmas there [Laughs]. So, that’s a unique quality.
Okay. So, the second quality is called subhada. Bestowing subha, auspicious things, nice things. What it means is good qualities, ultimately. So, this is analysed in different ways. One is affection for all living entities. So, by doing bhakti, we become compassionate for all living entities. We give respect to all living entities, jagat prinan. A second definition is attractive to all living entities. All living entities become attractive to the devotee, doing bhakti. We see that Lord Caitanya was in the forest, and all the animals became attracted to him [Laughs]. So, we become attractive to the world. Or, in a more general way, developing all good qualities.
Now, these qualities are not material qualities. We should not think through bhakti, we develop sattvic qualities. And it’s very clearly mentioned in the section on sadhana that developing good qualities is not an anga of bhakti. We’re trying to develop devotion to the Lord, that’s all [Laughs]. But, good qualities develop. But what are these good qualities? They are not material good qualities, obviously, because that would bind us to the world. These are spiritual qualities. So, we develop spiritual qualities like Krishna’s qualities. So, great devotees have good qualities. Those qualities also are not material, they’re spiritual qualities. They don’t cause bondage. Material qualities, good qualities, are sattvic. They cause bondage [Laughs]. So, they’re different. So, we develop nice spiritual qualities. So, these two processes, that is, destroying the karmas and desires, etc., and developing good qualities, begin to manifest in sadhana bhakti. And they go through bhava bhakti, more development, and prema bhakti, they manifest 100%. Gradually, but they start in sadhana bhakti.
A fourth definition of subha is happiness. So, bhakti gives happiness. In the material world, we get material happiness, sense enjoyment. We get happiness in liberation, freedom from karma, freedom from body, etc. Liberation is mukti. Bhakti is beyond that. It doesn’t give materialism, it doesn’t give liberation, but we do get some other happiness. If we get bhava and prema, it is called ananda. When we’re doing sadhana, we don’t call it ananda, but nevertheless, it is some bhakti-sukha. It is distinct from material happiness. So, in sadhana, we get bhakti-sukha, in bhava, it becomes ananda, in prema, it becomes sandrananda, condensed bliss. So, this is the subhadha. So, in sadhana, we get some spiritual happiness, but we don’t call it bliss at that stage. So, these two things manifest, the kleshagni, subhadha in sadhana itself, they begin to manifest, not completely, but they begin to manifest. The subhadha, of course, means development of spiritual qualities. How is this distinct from Jñāna? In Jñāna , you don’t want to develop qualities. You want to destroy qualities. And you get liberation? No qualities. No bad qualities, no spiritual qualities, nothing [Laughs]. So, they don’t want qualities, so they don’t get them [Laughs]. So, this development of spiritual qualities is something unique to bhakti. If we do karma yoga, we get good material qualities only, that’s all.
So, if you come to bhava-bhakti, next stage, which means that sthayi bhava manifests, and that internal bhava-bhakti manifests, then we get two more qualities manifesting, moksha-laghuta-krt, which means regarding liberation as insignificant, as useless, rejected completely. So, this, of course, is very distinct, because in Jñāna , the goal is liberation. In yoga, it is liberation. It’s not rejected. It is treasured [Laughs]. They want liberation. But in bhakti, you kick it away. So, this is a very unique quality of bhakti. So, when we go through asakti, then all our karmas are gone by the end of asakti, and in bhava-bhakti, even ahankara is destroyed, so we get the root of our material existence, avidya destroyed there. So, automatically, liberation is achieved, in one sense, at that point. But the devotee doesn’t want liberation. They want to go beyond that. So, this is a unique quality of bhakti. They completely reject liberation as being useless, because the joy of liberation is like nothing compared to the ananda in bhava, in having a relationship with Krishna. The bliss is insignificant. So, it’s an experience of relationship with Krishna, and that is enough to make liberation useless.
So, the second quality to appear in bhava is sudurlabha, which means very, very difficult to attain, or impossible to attain. In other words, very rare. It’s rare. What it means is, to realize Krishna even slightly, in bhava, is impossible by following karma, Jñāna , or yoga. You cannot realise Krishna at all, or any form of the Lord. In that sense, sudurlabha [Laughs]. Of course, we do know, if you follow the process of uttama-bhakti in sadhana, you can attain bhava. In that sense, not rare. But it is rare for everyone who’s not in bhakti. You cannot attain bhava stage. And even if you do bhakti, you have to go through the different stages, so it may take some time. You have to get through nistha, ruchi, asakti, and then we get to bhava. So, in that sense, even for doing devotion, sadhana would be common, and bhava would be rare.
So, prema is the third stage, which is like condensed bhava. We get condensed bliss. We get intense possessiveness of the Lord. In the definition of prema, it is said that bhava is like one ray of the sun of prema. So even if we get bliss in bhava, it is like nothing compared to prema [Laughs]. So that’s the intensity of prema. So one quality is sandrananda-visesatma, condensed bliss. There is bliss in bhava, because we get some rasa, and in prema it becomes condensed bliss, intense bliss. Such that everything else in the world, including liberation, is completely useless. It is useless in bhava, it becomes more useless in prema [Laughs].
So, you want to compare it. Brahman, you get a little bit of something there. Because you’re peaceful, there’s no karmas, no suffering, no material bodies. But if you get bhava, the second little one, it’s completely different. And it’s much preferred, we reject it. But if we get prema, which is the big one there, then it is inconceivable [Laughs]. And liberation becomes completely meaningless.
So the sixth quality is Krishna-akarsini, attracts even Krishna, attracts the Supreme Lord. So, of course, all types of bhakti are pleasing to Krishna. Krishna says, even if you have material desires, you surrender unto me, I like that. If you want money, you’re trying to get rid of your suffering, you’re also a devotee. But then, of course, he says, the one who is the best is the one who is doing pure bhakti. And, in pure bhakti, of course, sadhakas are good, those in bhava are better, and those in prema mostly control Krishna. They control Krishna the most in prema. So this is the quality in prema, attracts Krishna. He becomes controlled by the devotees. So this is, of course, this is unique to bhakti. The jnanis and yogis can’t even see Krishna, what to speak of control Krishna [Laughs]. So very unique qualities here. The bliss is much greater than that of liberation. And one can not only see Krishna, Krishna becomes controlled by the devotee in prema. So that’s not available in any other process. And not available even in bhakti, except in prema.
So, these are the six qualities which distinguish bhakti from other processes. And they go in stages. The first two qualities during sadhana, second two qualities during bhava, third two qualities in prema. So then in prema we got all six qualities manifested fully [Laughs]. And in sadhana, two qualities. In bhava, the same two more, plus two extra qualities. And then in prema, all of them manifested in full. So that’s how prema is very, very special.
At the end of this first section, then Rupa Goswami says that the qualification for understanding bhakti, and of course the whole of the work, the Nectar of devotion, is ruci, not tarka, not logic. Taste, not logic. So we have a little taste for the topic of bhakti, we can understand Nectar of devotion. But if we try to understand bhakti by dry logic, it’s useless, because logic is insubstantial. As I said, anavasta.
A person more skilful at logic can bring about a conclusion different from what was carefully proven previously by another skilful logician. We can be very skilful, give one conclusion, another skilful person, more skilful, will give a different conclusion. Later on, another person, we give another conclusion because he’s more skilful at logic. This is material world, so it’s insubstantial. But at the same time, we don’t reject logic. We use logic along with bhakti and then we can understand the scriptures nicely. So we don’t reject it, but we put logic, intelligence, all of that in its proper place, along with the devotion.
Okay, that’s it. Question?
Q & A
1) Hare Krishna Maharaj, you talked about how it’s the devotees mood to please Krishna is Uttama bhakti.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Without other desires.
Devotee : Now, we see that in the purport to, ‘patram pushpam phalam toyam’, Prabhupada is saying, you have to offer what Krishna wants you to offer to him and not like what you like. Somebody may not have Vedic knowledge or anything, and they go and offer it a meat. In a way, they are contradicting the Sastra, but their aim is to please Krishna. So it seems to be that the uttama bhakti can contradict Sastra. Is that correct, to say that?
Oh, well, when we talk about this uttama bhakti, okay, what is favourable, anukulya, then we have some other principles involved. So like in surrender, we have, you know, surrender, niksepa, humility, and all that. But the first one is, do what is favourable, reject what is unfavourable [Laughs]. So then what is favourable for Krishna? What is Krishna like? So then we have to have some knowledge, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (BRS 1.1.11), do favourable service for Krishna. But then we would have to know what Krishna likes. Now, of course, I said intention is there. Our intention is to please Krishna. So, of course, if one is in ignorance, one may offer something that is against Sastra or whatever. We have the intention of pleasing Krishna. Still, it’s not a big offence, if we have that devotion.
And we see that the Sabaras in Jagannath, they were worshipping in the forest, and they didn’t worship elaborately, they just offered the roots and fruits of the forest to the Supreme Lord [Laughs], but he liked it [Laughs]. They were very, very simple, but he didn’t… Even there were pig herds, and they were eating pork, probably, because there were pig herds. But that’s offensive in one sense, you know, if you want to follow strict deity worship, you have to be pure, you can’t eat meat or whatever. But he accepted it because they were doing the devotion, so in that sense, yeah, to some degree, the rules and whatever are restricted.
At the same time, if we have knowledge, it’s better, and we know what Krishna accepts and what he doesn’t accept. This is especially true of deity worship, which is Pancaratric. So there are rules for that. But we know in Kali Yuga, the process is Namasankirtan, no rules [Laughs]. So even if you are impure, whatever, even if you’re ignorant, you chant, you get some good effect [Laughs].
2) Hare Krishna Maharaj as stated from the verse Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, Jñāna and karma can be there but it should not be obstructed. It can be there, on the other side, you said bhakti plus jnana, that lead to santa rasa only. So how to understand this?
If there’s some impurity there. If there’s no obstruction there, then, of course, no problem at all. So you can do bhakti without anything. Fine, you can get to prema, pure bhakti, no other desire. You can do bhakti with no other desire, with the angas of karma yoga, with no desire, and you can also get prema. But if you have those little desires there for some enjoyment in the material world, then you get salokya sarsti, etc.
So we have examples. Great kings were like Ambarish. He was following the duties of a king, which is karma yoga, but he had no attachment. He didn’t want to go to Svargaloka by that at all. It’s just a duty he was doing, and he was practising pure bhakti. So it was not an obstacle for him, for prema at all. Dhruva, same with Dhruva. In the Bhagavatam, so many examples of great kings. They’re doing karma yoga. Associates of Lord Caitanya. They didn’t renounce everything, so they followed household life. What did they do? They followed the rules for Grhastha ashram and varnashrama system, karma yoga. But they didn’t use that to try to get material elevation, go to Svargaloka. They just did it as support for the material body, and they just went on with their pure bhakti, not mixing any material desires in it.
3) Thank you, Maharaj. Dandavat pranams, Maharaj was speaking about material good qualities and spiritual good qualities, so I just wanted to understand if there are material good qualities for eg. Humility, being soft-spoken. Do those come under material good qualities?
Well, they’re overlapping because you can have material humility, and we can have spiritual humility [Laughs], and they may look the same. We have material compassion and spiritual compassion. They may look the same. But the source is ultimately different. The source of material qualities is sattva-guṇa . You become situated in sattva, then you have all these nice qualities, like the brahmanical qualities. That’s all sattvic, but material, and it’s binding also. Krishna has all good qualities, and he also has mercy, and he has humility, etc. But, obviously, it’s not binding. It’s not sattva at all [Laughs], spiritual qualities. It looks similar, but it’s actually spiritual. So the devotees, by worshipping Krishna, associating with Krishna, develop spiritual qualities like Krishna [Laughs]. It’s all related to serving Krishna [Laughs].
Devotee : Just a follow up on that, some speakers say that having material good qualities is a prerequisite to performing bhakti.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : No. Because even the chandala, no good qualities. Not even in the varnashram system. Tamoguna. Chants the holy name once, he’s better than a brāhmaṇa . No qualification at all. So if you don’t have any material qualification, you’re qualified for bhakti, and especially for chanting the holy name and you can surpass all the gunas through that. So it doesn’t depend on you going to sattva-guṇa . That doesn’t mean that sattva-guṇa qualities are a disturbance. No. In general, favourable. Also, a favourable thing. But, they’re also binding.
So we have many brāhmaṇas who are in sattva, but then they’re attached to that. And therefore, they don’t become devotees [Laughs]. They’re attached to being a brāhmaṇa [Laughs], attached to those qualities. So they won’t become devotees. One other problem in sattva is that when you get to sattva, then tendency is to understand atma. And out of that, Jñāna develops. So Jñāna and yoga are offshoots of sattva-guṇa . So then the brāhmaṇas would get attracted to Jñāna and yoga, rather than bhakti [Laughs]. So they go in the opposite direction. They go to liberation instead of prema. So it can be… The effects of sattva can also be negative. So we see many people interested in yoga nowadays in the western world. Yoga, yoga, yoga. But what do they do? More impersonal. They get into the impersonal aspect more [Laughs].
4) Thank you for the beautiful message. How do we understand that we are in which mode like you talked about our sadhana, experience etc . Few related questions like – how do we know where we are in life at the moment. To experience about all you mentioned about Prema, and without spiritual knowledge, without much of vedic knowledge, does it mean that you can get prema without Vedic knowledge? Does this works ?
Oh. Well, it depends on what you mean by Vedic knowledge [Laughs]. If it’s knowledge of the Vedas and Upanishads, it’s not really necessary. But we do need some basic knowledge, which we’ll find in the Bhagavad Gita or in the introduction to Bhagavad Gita, which defines Jivas, God, Bhagavan has a form, Brahman has impersonal aspect, we have higher than that, we have Paramātmā higher than Bhagavan, process is bhakti, and bhakti, we should have no material desires as described here. So we have some basic knowledge like that. We don’t have to memorize the Rg Veda or anything like that, or all the Upanishads. It’s not necessary. So we have that knowledge, and then we practise bhakti, worshipping Krishna and chanting his name. So it’s a much simpler process. It doesn’t require high qualification. So that’s how we begin the process and through that you can get Prema.
Devotee : So you are saying that we can experience Prema without high spiritual, high vedic knowledge, because there are rules how to pray to deity, and there are certain rules of what to do, how to do etc, even without understanding that, can we still expeirnce prema ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So there are different types of bhakti. At the most, the rigorous type of bhakti we’ll say is deity worship, which has a lot of rules. Of course, our rules are nothing compared to the rules of other Sampradayas, even for deity worship. But we have more rules. But if you’re not doing deity worship, there’s less rules. And if you simply concentrate on chanting the name of Krishna, Hare Krishna, then almost no rules, except avoiding the offences [Laughs]. So, depending on the process which you use in bhakti, there may be some rules, but it’s actually minimal, compared to doing anything like karma, or Jñāna , or yoga.
Devotee : Maharaj, How do we find out where we are in life at the moment ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Well… [Laughs]Well, first, where we are in life, if we start the process of bhakti, then that’s most auspicious. And we’re much superior to any other person in the material world. So, we’re above everything. And in bhakti, if we start, then we go through these processes of sadhana, bhava, prema. And in sadhana itself, we have different stages. So, we have anartha nivrutti, nistha, ruchi, asakti you know, different stages there. So, we go through these stages gradually, as we practise the bhakti.
5) Hare krishna Maharaj, thank you for the beautiful class. in one of the slides you mentioned that sadhana, bhava and prema they all come under pure bhakti. But at the sadhana stage a devotee has anarthas and impurities. So how do we understand that it is under pure bhakti ?
Yeah. That’s a good question. It’s under pure bhakti, if you follow this definition. You’re doing your bhakti, you’re chanting Hare Krishna, and you’re not saying, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, give me a television set, give me a car, like that, give me liberation, get rid of my sickness, you know, through chanting. You may want to get rid of your suffering, etc, no problem, but you’re not using bhakti to fulfil your material purposes. That’s all. So, that’s the pure bhakti.
So, literally, of course, it’s not pure, because we still have anartha, we still have desires, and we don’t get rid of them until bhava and prema. So, actually, the only pure bhakta is in prema [Laughs]. But, if you don’t follow this process of anyābhilāṣitā-śūnya etc you can’t even get to prema [Laughs]. So, we begin, we have all our desires, but we’re not sticking those into our performance of bhakti and chanting Hare Krishna. So, in that sense, it’s pure. And that will lead to that absolute pure bhakti later on.
6) Maharaj in one of the slides you were talking about Sarupya, Salokya, Karma mishra bhakti and Jñāna mishra bhakti. So when somebody gets that liberation, Doesn’t that have any kind of rasa at all?
If we get liberation, there is no distinction of self from anything else. Rasa depends on distinction of self from Krishna, or any form of the Lord. There’s two [Laughs], not one [Laughs]. So, you need two people to have rasa. You can’t have a relationship with yourself [Laughs]. You need another person. That creates the rasa. In Brahman, there is no other person. It’s all one. So, there’s no rasa. There’s no quality. There’s no ananda [Laughs] in one sense.
Devotee : But, in sarupya, don’t they go to Vaikunthaloka to get the same form as Lord Vishnu?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah. So, that’s, of course, not sayujya, liberation, I’m talking about that. If we’re talking about the other ones, Salokya, Sarsti, that’s also about liberation, but that’s superior, and the Jnani cannot get that, and the yogi cannot get that. But you can get it by the mixed bhakti, karma-misra bhakti. So, when you go there, of course, you don’t have any more material desires, because you can’t go to the spiritual world with that. So, you get a spiritual body, whatever, like that but your bhakti is a little weaker. But you did have the desire to get some enjoyment, whatever. So, you get that nice enjoyment there, you get a nice spiritual body, a nice spiritual place, nice powers, and whatever, and you have some relationship with the Lord, sort of the weak, and you meditate on the Lord, but you don’t really get into active service of the Lord. So, that distinguishes it from, you know, real rasa. You get a little weak santa, something or other, santa-rati or something, but you don’t get dasya, trying to serve the Lord, whatever. Because of the weakness of the bhakti due to the mixture.
7) Maharaj, Hare Krishna. When the devotee goes to the 4 kinds of liberation except Sayujya, is he stuck there or can he be elevated to the ultimate liberation which is Goloka ?
Well, if one goes to the spiritual world, which is also ultimately the mercy of the Lord, one is satisfied with that attainment. Because this is what we strove for [Laughs]. So, we’re satisfied with it. So, if we strive for that kind of mixed enjoyment in the spiritual, we’re very satisfied. We don’t aspire for anything else. So, in the spiritual world, everything is very stable, and people don’t keep switching around. But that stability is established by our dedication to our sadhana. So, we practise sadhana to Vishnu, we go to Vishnu, we’re fixed in Vishnu, we don’t ask, well, I think somebody else is better than Vishnu afterwards. We get stuck in that devotion to Vishnu, and it becomes eternal. For all those in the spiritual world, they have those permanent relationships, and they don’t move around.
Devotee : Maharaj, Just a follow up on the question asked by the devotee. So the person has taken a decision to serve Vishnu after knowing that there is something like pure devotional service. So, they knew all the processes that existed, but still decided that, okay, I’m going to strive for Vishnu, i am not striving for other
Yeah, of course, it’s all, it can be pure bhakti anyway. Kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ means bhakti to Vishnu, and Narasimha, everybody. So, if you want to worship Vishnu, or Narasimha, or Rama, and you strive in that direction, you realise that form, eternally. And you become perfect, and you’re completely satisfied and blissful in that relationship in the spiritual world. So, it depends on your particular sadhana, which is natural, because if you dedicate your life to Ramachandra, and you’re worshipping him for life after life, and suddenly you go to the spiritual world, and you end up with Krishna. So, what happened [Laughs]? Where’s Rama? Show me Rama instead. So, Krishna fulfils your desire, and he gives you something, and you’re eternally satisfied with that.
8) Maharaj, we discussed about Sadhana, Bhava and Prema bhakti. Where does Ragatmika bhakti falls in ?
That’s in Prema. So, in striving Raganuga Bhakti, Raghanuga means following after Raga.
So, it means actually following after Ragatmika Bhaktas, which means following after the residents of Vrindavan in the spiritual world. So, those are the Ragatmikas , such as the Gopis, Radha, Lalita, and Yasoda, and Nanda, and the cowherd boys. So, they are Ragatmika Bhaktas. So, there, the word Raga means having a very strong relationship with the Lord, such that we don’t see Him as the Lord. So, it’s a very spontaneous type of relationship with no interference of reverence. That is what Raga is and it’s only there in Vrindavan. It’s not there in Dvaraka, not there in Mathura. They have a mixture there, so it’s not Raga. So, Ragatmika refers to those who are completely into that type of love. So, those are the eternal associates in Vrindavan. So, they are Ragatmikas.
9) Maharaj, in Sadhana bhakti Krishna consiousness is started through the mercy of Supreme lord, and the mercy of Siksha guru we have taken to sadhana bhakti. Even though in the beginning stages [Not clear] we keep on doing 16 rounds. Even though we have got a lot of material desires, at least for one Hare Krishna Mahamantra, we will think of the Lord out of all the sixteen rounds. So, in that, if we consider that one single Mahamantra is considered to be pure love, then we see, you know, Dhruva Maharaj where there is no deity worship, or when we see a different Ajamila who was calling Narayana at the last one moment where there was no deity worship, but still they were getting liberated or they were getting the darshan of the Lord. So, my question is, just with Sadhana Bhakti and with little of Vedic knowledge, if we continue the Sadhana Bhakti, can we go up to the Prema Bhakti level, or should there be a deity worship as a compulsory to us?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Deity worship?
Devotee : It should be kind of an important deity worship in our Sadhana to get that Bhava, Prema,
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So, one can proceed Sadhana, Bhava, Prema through any anga of Bhakti [Laughs]. So, we have 64 angas of Bhakti. We technically can do any of them. Usually, it’s a combination, and in Nectar of Devotion, Rupa Goswami says five are very strong, Shravanam process, and just by hearing, you can get perfection. The case is Pariksit Maharaj, he gives the example. Kirtan, he gives the example, Sukadeva Goswami, who spoke Bhagavatam, Kirtan, got perfection that way. Then we have remembrance. So, one can remember the Lord. Who remembers the Lord? Prahlada, who’s famous for remembering the Lord. Deity worship, he gives, I think, Prthu Maharaj, like that. And, of course, living in the Holy Dhama is there also. So, any of these processes can give us perfection up to Prema.
However, Lord Caitanya’s…, in Lord Caitanya’s movement, the primary process is Namasankirtan. So that can give us Prema. We don’t have to do the other processes so much. Of course, usually we combine those. We don’t have to do Deity worship, or whatever like that. We see Lord Caitanya himself really didn’t do Deity worship. He just did Kirtan. Of course, he went to Jagannath Temple, but he didn’t really participate in the worship. So, Kirtan itself leads you to the highest Prema.
10) Regarding Karma. So, when, after going through a lot of understanding on knowledge of karma, whatever we have done in the past is coming to us, whatever we have done, and of course we are depending on the lord whatever Karma we have to get, it’s getting subsidised or it is getting minimalized. That’s what is the understanding. But, how do we take it when the Karma comes on devotees who is completely involved into this completely, for example, our Guru Maharaj has completely dedicated his life, everything, life, soul, heart from the beginning for Krishna. Then, why is this Karma coming back and back? Is it Karma or how to understand it ?
So, it may be Karma. It may not be Karma. We don’t know [Laughs]. Bhakti destroys Karma, definitely. But, it may not be evident. So, Ajamila destroyed all of his Karmas, when he named his son Narayana . But, he was not aware. Nobody was aware that all the karmas were destroyed even Yamadutas weren’t aware [Laughs]. They tried to punish him. But, there were no Karmas. So, he looked evil. He looked wicked. He was, you know, addicted to sense enjoyment up to his death. But, he had no Karmas [Laughs]. So, Bhakti destroys Karmas. But, we may not be aware of what is happening. And, it may look like there is Karmas, etc. So, we can’t really tell.
In some cases, of course, Karmas will continue. If we have done aparadhas, then Karmas get destroyed slower. So, there will still be some Karmas. Or, maybe slightly reduced. But, still we are going to get some Karmas. Maybe aparadhas of this life or previous lifetimes. We don’t know. So, in that sense, it could still be, you know, remnants of Karma. In some cases, there may be no Karmas. But, there may be some arrangement of the Lord or whatever that looks like Karma, but actually isn’t. We don’t know [Laughs].
11) There is a question here. You mentioned that Bhakti is mixed with Karma. Devotees get a nice place in the spiritual world. Will they still see the Lord in there? Or, stay far away from the Lord? Will they stay there eternally? Or, come back to material world to complete their Bhakti?
No. If they were in the spiritual world, they stay there. And, they can meet the Lord or whatever. But, their relationship is somewhat weak. So, they are not always striving to serve the Lord directly or anything like that. So, I think in the Bhakti Sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says, they largely get their bliss from meditating on the Lord. Rather than directly serving Him [Laughs]. So, they have a relationship, but it’s a little bit distant [Laughs].
12) When you were talking about the six qualities of Bhakti, you said only Bhakti can destroy Prarabdha Karma. Jñāna and Karma cannot destroy Prarabdha Karma. So, then that looks like anybody who is not a devotee, then the system of birth system looks to be valid. Is that a right understanding? Because birth is a result of your Karma. So, then the traditional brāhmaṇa s and their idea that you are belonging to a particular Varna based on birth seems to have a validity for anybody who is not a devotee. Is that a valid argument?
To some degree. Of course, we also say that your Varna is determined by your qualities. So, you are born in a Brahmana family, but you have Rajasic qualities [Laughs]. Your Karma would be actually Rajasic, not Brahminical or whatever like that. So, you are stuck with that. Generally, people don’t change too much throughout their life. They don’t really change. They get stuck in one particular mode. Now, it is possible for anybody to change, but it requires effort, it requires practise, etc. So, if you do follow even the Varnashrama system, you can gradually raise yourself in the gunas also. That’s the whole purpose, to go from tamo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa eventually, but it takes many births to do that, that’s all. So, that’s the process of Karma, gradual. And the Jñāna and Yoga are only available for people in sattva-guṇa [Laughs]. So, you have to do Karma Yoga until you get to Sattva. Then you have a choice of Jñāna or Yoga. So, Bhakti is the alternative. And you can do it in any case. tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and sattva-guṇa . So, it makes it much easier for people. And that way, you surpass all the Gunas.
Okay. Hare Krishna.
Devotees: HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj Ki.. Jai !!