SB 11.10.7 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 25 March 2021
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 10 Verse 7.
ŚB 11.10.7
jāyāpatya-gṛha-kṣetra-
svajana-draviṇādiṣu
udāsīnaḥ samaṁ paśyan
sarveṣv artham ivātmanaḥ
Synonyms
jāyā — to wife; apatya — children; gṛha — home; kṣetra — land; svajana — relatives and friends; draviṇa — bank account; ādiṣu — and so on; udāsīnaḥ — remaining indifferent; samam — equally; paśyan — seeing; sarveṣu — in all of these; artham — purpose; iva — like; ātmanaḥ — of oneself.
Translation
One should see one’s real self-interest in life in all circumstances and should therefore remain detached from wife, children, home, land, relatives, friends, wealth and so on.
Purport
A devotee of the Lord recognizes that his wife, children, home, land, friends and money are meant to be engaged in the loving service of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, he does not frantically make arrangements for the sense gratification of his family and friends. He is not eager to enjoy the false prestige of being the master of his wife and the lord of his children, nor is he anxious to gain prestige from his friends and society. Thus he does not envy anyone and is not lazy in the matter of self-realization. He is free from the false sense of proprietorship and is always eager to develop his understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is free from false egotism and automatically turns away from useless materialistic conversation. Thus he is steady and not whimsical, and he is always firmly situated in loving friendship at the lotus feet of the spiritual master.
The question may be raised as to how one can develop freedom from false proprietorship. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has given the following example. An ordinary man is very eager to accumulate more and more money, and he maintains his wealth in the form of stocks, bonds, securities, bank accounts, properties, gold, and so on. As long as these different assets are contributing to his financial well-being, he sees them equally and considers that they belong to him. But if some of his assets are taken by the government for taxes, or if they are lost in an unfortunate business arrangement, then he is forced to give up his sense of proprietorship. In the same way, everyone should be intelligent enough to observe that one’s sense of ownership over innumerable material objects is not permanent; and therefore one should develop detachment from these things. If one does not cultivate a loving feeling of friendship for the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His pure devotee, the spiritual master, one will undoubtedly be entangled by the network of material society, friendship and love. One will then remain bound up on the material platform with no hope of permanent happiness.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, the previous verse mentioned about being devoid of possessiveness. And as well as that, of course, one should be attached to the devotees and the Supreme Lord. So, this verse is emphasizing the sense of detachment. So, here it says one should be udāsīnaḥ or neutral. One should not be attached, nor should one hate. So one has wife, children, house, etc. So, one does not necessarily completely reject them. But one should not be too attached also. So, in this way, one should show his detachment or lack of possessiveness for things. This has to be countered by attachment to the Supreme Lord. So, that is mentioned here by saying he should see all objects, in every object, some relationship with the Supreme Lord. And if the object is favourable, then he can use it for the Supreme Lord. If it is not favourable, then he can reject it.
So, I mentioned previously that according to ashram, the way in which one accepts and rejects will be different. So, for the brahmachari, the vanaprastha and the sannyasi, the emphasis is upon rejection. And the emphasis for the grhastha is not exactly rejection, but it is also not attachment. So, the grhastha accepts wife, children, house, land, etc. but he should not be too attached. So, one, of course is attachment in order to fulfill his grhastha duties. Another is to be attached to them so, he can use them for service to Krishna. But he should not be attached to these things for sense gratification. So, that is the way in which he shows his indifference to the things.
The brahmachari and the vanaprastha and the sannyasi, on the other hand, they do not associate with these things at all. Or if they do, it is minimal. So, there is already a sense of detachment from these objects. But this is not complete, unless, we also have attachment to the Lord. If there is no attachment to the Lord, then the only benefit one can ultimately get is liberation. So, therefore, one has to balance that sense of detachment with service to the Lord. So the grhastha, of course, has this license for attachment because he is allowed to have wife, children, properties, etc. But the ashram is not permanent. It is placed between brahmachari and vanaprastha. So, ideally the person should be a brahmachari, then he should become a grhastha, then he should take vanaprastha. Because of this arrangement, then, there is an emphasis upon detachment, even in grhastha life. In the Bhagavatam and other, Bhagavad Gita and other places, they often preach about detachment. And to encourage that detachment, then they talk about how temporary the body is. So, the body is born and the body dies. This happens repeatedly. So, why you should be attached to your body? So, this is a common argument for detachment. So, similarly, we can talk about grhastha ashram. Why be attached? Because previous to that, you were not attached as a brahmachari and afterwards you take vanaprastha, again, you are not attached. So why get too attached [Laughs]? And of course, one can also give the argument, in previous life you were a grhastha, in the previous life also, in the previous life also. So, why you have to be attached in every life [Laughs]? Even if you maintain grhastha life up until your death, at death you have to give it up also.
So, within the varnashram system itself, there is a cultivation of detachment. So this is, as a plus point, is good in one sense. Because by detachment we don’t have to suffer so much. The negative point of course is, too much detachment leads to liberation. So, in the Nectar of Devotion there Rupa Goswami says, in the beginning, detachment is somewhat favourable. But then he says, too much absorption in it leads to drying up of the heart. Instead of becoming attracted to Krishna, one becomes attracted to liberation. So, they are not the goals of bhakti, nor are they the angas of bhakti. On the other hand, Jnana and vairagya are the natural results of bhakti. By cultivating bhakti, one becomes detached. By development of bhakti, one understands one is not the body.
So, in the process of devotional service, though, there is the sense of detachment as stated in these verses, at the same time, the main emphasis is given to the positive cultivation of devotion. And, whatever detachment is necessary, also develops as one becomes more attached to the Lord. So, I mentioned previously that in the beginning of devotional service, we have a lot of attachment to material possessions. So, the sense of possessing, this is mine, mamata, that is very strong in a neophyte devotee. So, in the final state of bhakti, that is completely absent. But then there is another type of possessiveness or mamata, that is, possessiveness of Krishna. It manifests in bhava and it becomes very strong in prema. So, this sense of possessiveness is not necessarily bad, but it’s the object of possessiveness that is important. So, if one is attracted to Krishna, with no other attraction, that is considered to be most praiseworthy. And if one is attracted to all sorts of material objects for one’s own enjoyment, that is to be condemned. So, the process of bhakti is to gradually increase the possessiveness of Krishna. And, the more one becomes completely attracted to Krishna, the less one is attracted to anything else. So, in this sense, through the development of bhakti, naturally detachment from material enjoyment decreases. So, this is said to be the natural method of practicing detachment. In Jnana and yoga, that sense of vairagya and detachment is the actual practice that they do. And, of course, to do that they perform many austerities. On the other hand, the way in which the devotee cultivates that detachment is by increasing attachment to Krishna. So, the goal of the devotee, therefore, is to always increase that attachment to Krishna. So, to the extent that, that happens, then he becomes successful in bhakti. So, this is to say a growth. The attachment to Krishna in the beginning is very little. But at the end, in prema, it is 100%.
So, usually the process is gradual. And, that is why the cultivation of bhakti is compared to cultivating a plant. By cultivating the plant, the plant grows. And it displays various symptoms as it grows. And we can detect whether it is growing nicely or whether it is unhealthy. If it has healthy leaves, then we know it is growing nicely. If we cultivate and cultivate, but it never produces flowers, it never produces fruit, then we know something is wrong. So, we cultivate bhakti like a plant, and it gradually develops. And as it grows, it gives various symptoms. And the attraction to Krishna becomes more and more. And then, finally, when the attraction is 100%, that is the fruit. So, one eats the fruit and one experiences bliss. So, that cultivation of attraction to Krishna is gradual, like the growth of the plant. If we cultivate properly, then we should expect the proper growth. So, in that sense, bhakti is also a science. A particular method gives a particular result.
Q & A :
1.) Often, in the scriptures, we find the detachment from family, children, ladies is mentioned. When a neophyte devotee, he gets married, he uses this as an excuse, and he starts getting detached. And that’s is creating a lot of problems in the family, even among devotees, divorces and others. How to understand this? How to correct it?
Well, some people are not qualified for grhastha life, so they shouldn’t get married [Laughs]. And, those that are in household life, then, they are expected to carry out their responsibilities. But, as I mentioned, the goal, finally, is to renounce that and become a vanaprastha. So, there has to be some sense of detachment, even within the grhastha ashram. But, it can never be equated with a brahmachari, or a vanaprastha, or sannyasa life.
2.) To family, wife etc, there is slightly contradictory to what is described in 11th canto 10th chapter 4th verse. Give up sense gratification irrespective of your ashram. What qualifies these personalities to receive special mercy?
It doesn’t actually mention ashram in the verse at all. In any case, as I said, the renunciation is different in different ashramas. So, there is renunciation in brahmachari life, there is renunciation in grhastha life, renunciation in vanaprastha life and renunciation in sannyasa. But they are a little different. So, this sannyasi gives up the wife, the children and their property etc literally, Sannyasi. The vanaprastha gives up the children and the properties. The brahmachari doesn’t give up anything because he doesn’t have it in the first place. And, the grhastha, if he has these things as I mentioned here, he should be udāsīnaḥ, neutral, he should not be too attached. So, it never says in scripture the grhastha should immediately give up his wife and children and, then he shouldn’t get married in the first place [Laughs].
3.) Maharaj, I suppose this is a statement by Krishna Himself. This translation says, one should see one’s real self-interest in life in all circumstances. Similar verse comes in like sa vai puṁsāṁ ahaituky apratihatā [ŚB 1.2.6]. For a sadhaka Maharaj, in all circumstances means, I mean being a sadhaka, either he is complacent or he has lot of reasons to say, my circumstances, I have a challenge to do this. So, how to understand this?
For a person who is doing sadhana, they can never do anything perfectly. So, they cannot always think of Krishna, never forget Krishna. They cannot be engaged 100% and 24 hours a day in Krishna’s service. They cannot be completely without other desires. However, that’s their goal. So, sometimes the scriptures will speak in terms of the ideal, even though the person hasn’t attained it. But, if we don’t know what the goal is, what is the ideal, what is the perfect goal, then we also can’t attain it. So, therefore, for the person doing sadhana, it is more or less an order, you should be doing this, not that you can do it perfectly at the beginning.
4.) Maharaj, If I am developing attachment with my child thinking that he is part and parcel of Krishna, is it okay? Is that love is equal to loving Krishna? Loving children as part and parcel of Krishna, is it equal to loving Krishna Himself?
Well, it depends on how we are loving them [Laughs]. So, if we raise them to be devotees of Krishna, very fine. If we just raise them to continue a material dynasty, then that’s material [Laughs].
Devotee: But we find sometimes even Prabhupada, most of his children didn’t become devotees. Even initially they raise them as devotees, later they may not take it up. In certain families, the parents may be devotees.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh yeah, but one can do one’s best. If it doesn’t work out, fine, one has to be detached. That’s a good reason to be detached [Laughs].
5.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, what does it mean possessiveness for Krishna?
Well, literally it means, Krishna is mine [Laughs]. And I don’t want anything else. Well, that is attained in prema.
6.) Maharaj, how to develop faith and attachment to Krishna, even after being, having detached from household life?
Well, I gave the example of the plant. You plant the seed and you have to cultivate it. So, if you cultivate bhakti, then the attachment for Krishna will keep growing.
7.) Maharaj, we see in Sri sampradaya, only the grhasthas who spend some time, number of years, then vanaprastha, then sannyasa is given. In Gaudiya sampradaya, we see even brahmacharis are given sannyasa. Even when grhastha takes sannyasa, there is no prominent vanaprastha ashram. Will not that particular sannyasa be yet still thinking of his wife, even after taking sannyasa, without undergoing this?
So, the rule for sannyasa is, it can be taken from any of the ashramas. So, one can go from brahmachari to sannyasi, from grhastha to sannyasi, or from vanaprastha to sannyasi.
8.) Is grhastha ashram possible in kali yuga?
Well, that’s, that’s the, as I said in the smriti sastras, there is no sannyasa in kali [Laughs] yuga [Laughs]. So, that means [Laughs] they are all grhasthas [Laughs]. Of course, in kali yuga, the ashramas and the varnas cannot be executed fully. The ashramas are related to the varnas. And if the varnas are not operating properly, then the [Laughs] the ashramas cannot operate properly. So, therefore, in kali yuga, there will be all sorts of faults in the varnas and the ashramas. So, the only solution is to make up for the faults by doing bhakti.
9.) Maharaj, in Putana’s pastime, in one of the verses, Srila Prabhupada writes, the word samsara refers to attachment for one’s body, home, husband or wife and children. But although the Gopis and all the other inhabitants of Vrindavana had the same affection and attachment for husband and home. Their central affection was for Krishna in some transcendental relationship and therefore, they were guaranteed to be promoted to Goloka Vrindavana in their next life to live with Krishna eternally in the spiritual happiness. In the point Maharaj, the same affection and attraction for the husband and wife but still keeping Krishna in the center. What should be the proper understanding there?
Well, for the inhabitants of Vrindavana, that was not so. The center of their life was Krishna. And everything is in relation to Krishna, their families also.
Devotee: Yes Maharaj, but in the purport is written like that Maharaj. In the purport is written like that, the Gopis, they had the same affection for the husband, wife, family.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, that’s superficial.
10.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, how to start the varnashrama life gradually?
Well, ideally, you should have a king who establishes the varnas. So, and the king has to be a descendant from Manu. And the only descendant is not going to do his function until satya yuga arises. So, therefore, whatever varnashram attempt is going to be very, very [Laughs] imperfect. So, that is why we depend more on bhakti. That does not depend on Manu’s descendant [Laughs].
11.) Even devotees, they have different inclinations. Some devotees like to give class, brahmanical mentality. Some devotees like to do business, they have vaisya mentality. Some devotee like to predict. So, inherent nature is already there.
Well, that’s there even in the western world, people do according to their inclination. But that’s not varnashram, that’s not real varnashram [Laughs].
Devotee: [Not audible].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, generally he will fail. He won’t be able to do it. Well, yeah, that’s what we try to do. And anyway, if they fail, then we are not going to keep them at that [Laughs] occupation [Laughs] anyway [Laughs].
12.) Dear Maharaj, can we say nistha in bhakti means 50% is our personal desire and 50% surrendering to Krishna?
Yeah, in one sense we can say that nistha means that at least the attraction to Krishna is strong enough that the attraction to maya does not interfere with the service.
13.) Maharaj, if I had heard properly Maharaj, that there are two statements Maharaj made. One is possessiveness starts at the level of bhava. Maharaj also made a statement that possessiveness should be progressively increased. So what should be the right understanding there?
Well, before that, it’s not that it suddenly appears from no where, but it manifests nicely at those stages. So before that, obviously, because our attraction to maya is quite strong, it won’t manifest. So, before that, there is a, with the beginning of bhakti, there is a seed of attraction and it grows gradually. And when it gets to bhava, then we can call that attraction possessiveness.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!