Brhad Bhagavatamrta -4 | HH Bhanu swami Maharaj | ISKCON Japan | 8th Dec 2017
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
And then Gopa kumar began to tell his own story. He was a cowherd in Vrindavan, and then he got a guru and the guru gave him the same mantra. So, before the guru could explain everything, he disappeared. And then this boy began to chant this mantra, and he became completely absorbed in it, and he became detached, and he wandered away from Vrindavan, went to the place on the Ganga there, and was continually chanting.
So, he met a brahmana who was worshipping a Shaligram. So the brahmana told him to go to this nearby city where there was a king, and the king was worshipping Vishnu in a very elaborate manner. So he went there.
So then the king died, but he made Gopa kumar the king, so he became king of that country.
But he also became a little bit disturbed by the features of it, because he couldn’t serve the deity directly.
So he gave up the kingdom, and he was still chanting the mantra. Then he met a devotees from Puri who began to praise Jagannath. So, he went to Puri.
So, he was pleased, but again he longed to serve the deity, but he couldn’t serve Jagannath. He met his guru again, and the guru encouraged him to continue chanting the mantra. Then the king died, and Gopa Kumar became the king of Puri [Laughs].
But he became dissatisfied because he couldn’t serve the deity directly, and also, he was doing so many kingly duties.
So he gave up the kingdom, and he was still there, but he didn’t want to leave because he was attached to Jagannath. So Jagannath himself ordered him to go to Mathura and Vrindavan.
So, he went back to Vrindavan, and there he was quite satisfied. But then he thought, I want to see Jagannath again, so he started to go back [Laughs] to Puri again. But on the way, on the bank of the Ganga, he met some brahmanas. And these brahmanas began praising Swargaloka. The place above this earth, and that Swargaloka, the Lord directly resides.
So Vamanadeva appeared as the younger brother of Indra there. So, he became very excited to see the Lord, so he began chanting his mantra. So immediately, a celestial vehicle came down and took him to Swargaloka [Laughs].
So, when he got there, he saw Vishnu sitting there. So, he was very satisfied, he offered his respects, and he offered prayers. And the Lord called out to him with a very compassionate voice.
So he lived there for sometime, he was very happy because he could see the Lord. But one time, Indra had a relationship with the wife of one great sage, and he got afraid and he disappeared [Laughs]. No, he had a relationship with some sage’s wife.
Devotee: Oh, Gopa kumar?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj :No, No no Indra, Indra, Indra.
Devotee: Who disappeared?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Indra. He hid himself. So, then Brahaspati ordered the Devatas to install Gopu Kumar as Indra [Laughs]. So, in spite of being the king, he didn’t stop his Japa, of his Krishna Mantra, he continued to do that. And he began to think of Vraja again.
So though this Upendra lived in Swarga Loka, he couldn’t see him all the time. So, then he thought, I’ll go back to Puri and I’ll see Jagannatha all the time [Laughs]. So he spent one Deva year there, which is 360 of our years, he spent there in Swarga Loka ruling as Indra [Laughs].
Then, when he was there, some sages from Mahar Loka came down, Mahar Loka is just above Swarga, so from the next highest planet, Mahar Loka, some sages came down. And one can only attain that if one is even more pious than doing works for Swarga Loka. It’s much harder to get to Mahara Loka.So, though Swarga and all the lower planetary systems are destroyed at the end of Brahma’s day, Mahar Loka and the planets above are not destroyed, they remain. So, in that place, the Prajapatis do sacrifices and the Lord is present to receive the offerings.
So, he became very excited that he wanted to go to Mahara Loka, so he chanted his mantra, and then he ended up in Mahar Loka. So there he saw the great sages doing sacrifices, chanting mantras, etc., and then he saw the Lord appear and accept those offerings.
So that place was very peaceful, and there were no faults there, there was no lamentation, no worry, because it’s not destroyed at the end of Brahma’s day. As long as they were doing the sacrifice, the Lord was present. When the sacrifices were finished, the Lord disappeared [Laughs]. So, this became a cause of unhappiness.
So, though Mahar Loka is not destroyed at the end of Brahma’s Day, the fire for the lower three worlds begins to affect that planet and gets a little hot there [Laughs]. So then everyone has to move out of Mahar Loka and they go to Jana Loka at night time.
Jana Loka [Laughs]. So during Brahma’s night time, that Janaloka and Tapoloka there people stay, everyone stays there in those planets but no sacrifice performed because Brahma sleeps also, and the Lord sleeps. So there’s no sacrifice. So they don’t see the Lord.
So one time, Sanat Kumara from Tapo Loka appeared. And Gopa Kumar saw Sanat Kumara and was very impressed. So, Gopa Kumar was thinking, what kind of happiness they got there? Is it better than Mahar Loka and Jana Loka? What does the Lord look like there? So he got very curious. So, he chanted his mantra and he went there.
So, Tapa Loka is a place where people who are very detached and renounced go, like sannyasis, etc. And all the people there are basically in Jnana, fixed in samadhi, like yogis. And they all had mystic powers. But he couldn’t see the Lord there. And by the influence of the sages who are more or less in samadhi then his interest in the lord seemed to dwindle.
Out of respect for his Guru’s order he continued to chant his mantra even though he was little bit not so interested [Not clear]. So, because it was so peaceful there, he could concentrate on the mantra. And because he concentrated on his mantra, he desired to see the Lord more even.
Of course, the sages there were saying, well, you don’t have to go anywhere. You just meditate and you’ll be satisfied. You can see the Lord in your mind. This is the best thing. So, they praised the mind. So why bother seeing the Lord? If your mind is happy with the Lord, then the senses automatically satisfied. So even if the Lord is not present visibly, still internally you can always be blissful because you can see the Lord in the heart. Mind is the cause of the bliss, not the senses.
And they say that even in Bhakti we have nine types of devotional service but actually smaranam is the most important. And thus, it’s the most important of all the senses. And even prema arises from the mind. The mind transforms in a special way and you experience prema. So it’s also a mental state.
So he did yoga and concentrated his mind and then he could see the lord everywhere.
And then once Brahma came to Tapo loka riding on his swan.
Devotee : In meditation ?
HH Bhanu swami Maharaj : No, no, actually he appeared in Tapaloka. He was going down to Pushkaradwipa. So on Bhumandala there is Mount Meru in the middle and Jambudwip and then we have different islands. And in the last island is Pushkaradwipa. Seventh island, sixth or seventh Island. And they worship Brahma there. So he was going to Pushkaradwipa. So then Gopa kumar thought, I should go to Brahmaloka [Laughs]. Because there, there is the Mahapurusha form of Vishnu. So he chanted his mantra in Samadhi. And then he ended up in Brahmaloka.
And there he saw the Mahapurusha, the Supreme Lord. So, he was very beautiful. He had thousands of arms, heads and feet like universal form. And he was lying on Ananta-sesa.
So one time a demon had attacked. So the Lord killed the demon. But Brahma, when he saw that demon, became very frightened. He disappeared [Laughs]. So, then the Lord assigned Gopa kumar to be Brahma [Laughs]. For a little while [Laughs]. So, this was a distraction, because then he had to do all Brahma’s duties. And he couldn’t just look at the Lord all the time and serve the Lord. So, he became quite dissatisfied.
While he was residing there as the Brahma, then the scriptures personified. They began having discussions in the assembly. All the personified Vedas were there, the Upanishads were there and the Puranas were there. And they would speak in the assembly of Brahma [Laughs]. So, they were having a discussion about liberation. So, some of the Upanishads said that only by knowledge you can get liberation. No other means, only knowledge. Other famous Upanishads and some of the Agama Sastras also said, no, you can get liberation by bhakti. So, they had some argument about this.
And then some other Upanishads, not the most famous ones, but something like Gopala tapani Upanishad etc. There is some other Upanishads, they began to speak. So they said, these Upanishads said that actually we speak about liberation, but we speak about it so that people can eventually reject it [Laughs]. So in other words, these Upanishads are saying, we criticize liberation, we condemn it.
So, they have a whole discussion of what is the happiness of liberation [Laughs]. So the happiness of liberation is the happiness like not being sick [Laughs], in the absence of problems [Laughs]. Or it’s like enjoying deep sleep. And so actually it’s not really liberation. This term was created by people who were in illusion [Laughs]. So even if you chant Namabhas, you can very easily get liberation. So that means it’s not very valuable at all.
When you realize Atma, then you realize Brahman. And this Brahman is devoid of qualities, free from attachments, not changing, and completely inactive. This is liberation. But Bhagavan has a body of eternity, knowledge and bliss. He’s an ocean of the most excellent qualities.
So, they describe that actually the Lord is both things. He is this impersonal aspect of liberation, plus he’s full of all wonderful qualities. So, the Brahman, or the impersonal feature, is one Vibhuti or Shakti of the Lord. And the Supreme Lord himself is much more important than his Shakti. So if you can realize Bhagavan, then you can get the highest bliss. So, the lotus feet of Krishna are like sugar. They’re joyful and they’re a source of joy. And Brahman is just joyful, but it’s not the source of the joy.
So this discussion took place and then Gopa Kumar understood that higher than liberation was realizing the Supreme Lord. So he was also discontented because as being the Brahma there was a distraction for him. So the Lord told him, you go to Mathura and there your desires will be fulfilled you can do your sadhana and you can go beyond Brahma Loka. If you want to stay in brahma Loka, you can also go higher beyond the world but you have to wait till Brahma’s life is ended. So that’s going to be a long time, so a bit quicker if you go back to Mathura and do your sadhana there.
Gopa Kumar left the Brahma Loka and he back down to Bhu mandala and he went to Vraja and everything else had changed because you know it was so many [Laughs] days of Brahma later but Mathura and Vrindavan was the same. And then he met his Guru again. So the Guru taught him different, before he didn’t teach many things. He just gave the mantra and disappeared. This time he began to teach him how to worship and meditate using the mantra. So, he said, by the power of this mantra you will know everything.
So, he chanted and then he got a body which was beyond the material elements. He got a spiritual body. And then he began traveling through the universe. He went past swargaloka and all these different lokas, etc. And then he started going beyond the material layers of the universe. So, there are different layers beyond the universe after Brahma Loka, etc. of different elements starting with the earth element. But in that layer there is the earth devata and there is the form of the supreme lord and there is worship going on there also. So it’s not just earth, there is actually some worship going on in these different places. So Gopal Kumar began to look at all this.
So, in the first covering that was the earth covering there he saw Bhumi Devi, the earth. She was worshipping Varaha.
And of course, he went beyond that layer, and he came to the water layer and there he saw Varuna worshipping Matsya [Laughs]. Going beyond that he went to the fire layer. And there Surya Narayan was being worshipped. Then he went into the air layer and Vayu was worshipping Pradyumna. Then he went into the ether layer and there… Who’s in charge of ether? Dig devatas maybe. And then they were worshipping Aniruddha. And then he went into the ahankara layer and there, I think they worshipped Sankarsana. And then in the layer of Maha tattva, Vasudeva was worshipped.
Layer after layer after layer after and then he got to the layer of Prakriti [Laughs].
And Prakriti was worshipping Mohini Avatar. And Prakriti, well actually each layer he went to the lord welcomed and said you stay here. But then he said, no, no I can’t stay. And finally, he got to Prakriti and Prakriti said OK, I can give you liberation.
He refused to stay there and didn’t want liberation.He went beyond that layer of Prakriti, and he got to a place called Mahakalapura. This is the place of liberation. So the Lord was actually present in this place. And therefore, he felt very happy. But this Lord was surrounded by effulgence. So, he wanted to see the deity of his mantra.
And in this place Shiva and Parvati were residing. So they of course are great devotees of the Lord.
So, while he was there he was a little bit disturbed because he almost merged into the Brahman [Laughs] because it was all so effulgent everywhere. So he didn’t like it. It wasn’t very comfortable there. But then finally Vishnu dutas came back. So these Vishnu dutas were only interested in bhakti. And these Vishnu dutas were going to the earth and other places within the material world and they were spreading bhakti everywhere. And they also saved the devotees when they were dying or even people who have nama bhasa like Ajamila they came and saved him. So they go everywhere and save people.
So, Shiva began to describe about mercy. So, Brahma has some mercy but if you multiply that 100 times then that is the mercy of Shiva. You get to Shiva’s post. And if you get 100 times more mercy than that you can go to Vaikuntha.
So if you want to reach Vaikuntha you should practice the nine types of devotional service. [Not clear] the Bhagavatam and other scriptures. And from those scriptures the pastimes of the Lord.
So, Shiva was glorifying bhakti and the devotees. So, bhakti appears to be some function of the senses and the mind and the body in new people, in sadhana. But advanced devotees consider the same activities that they are doing to be expressions of the Lord’s mercy. So, they do those actions without effort and without their own controls under the Lord.
Okay, so simply one should perform pure bhakti and particularly Nama Sankirtan. So actually, chanting the Lord’s name is much better than remembrance. Sankirtan is better than smaranam.
Devotee : That’s interesting.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So if you chant you are using the voice, you are also using the mind and you are also using the ear. So you are using many senses there. And this gives benefits to yourself and also gives benefits to other people.
If we control the sense of speech, then you can control the mind [Laughs]. So if you control your speech then you can also do better remembrance. So Nama Sankirtan produces proper remembrance.
Of course, it is also admitted that different people have different preferences, different likes and dislikes. So whatever devotional practice one favors that is best for oneself. So Sankirtan expands the joy of meditation and meditation expands the joy of kirtan. So they mutually support each other. So that actually one method only [Laughs].
So if a person develops prema then he chants the name. That’s the sign of a person with prema. He does Sankirtan [Laughs]. So chanting the name is a practice but it’s also the goal Sadhya.
Okay so we had the whole discussion with the [Laughs] on Shiva loka, and then Vishnu dutas come etc. Like that. So Gopakumar goes back again to Vrindavan again [Laughs]. He meets his guru. His name is given here, Jayanta, that’s his guru. There was Mahakalapura. He began to perform bhakti, he got prema and was chanting the Lord’s name. And then the Vishnu Dutas came [Laughs]. And they said ok, now you can get a four armed form. He had a spiritual form but it was a cowherd boy form, so you can have a four armed form like us but he said I don’t want that. So they take him on their vehicle and again he goes through all the worlds and through the coverings and he goes up Shiva’s abode and he goes past Shiva’s abode, this Mahakalapura and finally he goes to Vaikuntha.
Because he said you have to go back to earth if you want to go quickly [Laughs]. So it is described that they took up him to Vaikuntha but and then he had to wait outside the gate.
And then the Vishnudutas went inside and informed the Lord, so he was waiting outside the gate there. So He saw many different servants entering in to that gate but they were all looking like Vishnu, so he began offering obeisances and praising them you are Supreme lord and they kept saying, no, no, no we are not and they covered their ears etc. [Not clear] making this mistake they are all looking like Vishnu.
They also had the power to take any form, so they could appear as tree, or as a bird or an animal or as human being or as devata etc. They could take any form they wanted. So, they take these forms for the Lord’s pastimes.
And finally the Vishnu dutas came back and they led him through the different gates and each time he saw the doorkeepers he thought they were also Supreme Lord [Laughs] but they weren’t and finally, he met the Lord of Vaikuntha. So, when he saw the Lord, he became very ecstatic and happy. And he identified this Vishnu form with the Lord of his mantra, Gopal. And he went to embrace the Lord.
But they had to stop him [Laughs]. So the Lord welcomed him very, very mercifully. So the Lord explains that actually I’ve been waiting for you for so long. So he was thinking maybe this lifetime He will come, in your next lifetime. So he was waiting and waiting and waiting.
So then he explains, Vishnu explains that actually I became the guru, Jayanta [Laughs].
So he was in Vaikuntha and he could have all these different powers, etc. but he avoided everything. And he continued in his cowherd boy form.
So this caused a little bit of a problem because the other residents were saying you don’t look like us you should [Laughs] actually look like everybody else [Laughs]. And he would address the Lord as Gopal, etc. and he would play his flute for him and dance like a cowherd boy, etc. So many of the residents were very embarrassed by that. So don’t do that [Laughs]. But other devotees there said no, actually the Lord is merciful to everybody and he’s satisfied with this as well.
So he felt a little bit discouraged there and he wanted to see the form of Krishna or Gopal. At the same time when he saw that form of Vishnu he felt respect and reverence. So this caused some disturbance to him.
So then Narada Muni appeared and started giving him instructions. So he said that you can realize, you go to Vaikuntha, whoever goes to Vaikuntha realizes the same service to the Lotus Feet of Krishna from which he has developed taste. In other words, we do some we’re aspiring for a certain type of service we get that when we go to Vaikuntha. So according to the sadhana we do and what we expect as a form of the Lord we get that when we go to the spiritual world.
So in Vaikuntha actually the Lord has many forms because people worship in different ways as Varaha or Narasimha, so the Lord will assume those forms for different types of devotees.
Some devotees are not attracted to just one form but they worship many forms.
And he says Krishna is one form but he’s different from Narayana. And you require a certain type of softness of the heart to appreciate this Krishna.
Still, different types of devotees are satisfied with different forms of the Lord and different degrees of happiness. So according to the worship, you get the result.
Q & A:
Devotee : Many times he became king, then he is supposed to learn, you know [Laughs].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Well in this way he could experience the full pleasure of each different place, like Brahmaloka, Indraloka, Earth planet, etc. But he was dissatisfied with it. He gave it up.
Devotee 1 : Very much curiosity.
Devotee 2 : Sanatana Goswami’s life work Maharaj?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: This is his big work. Of course the other one is Hari Bhaktivilas. Of course it says he actually wrote the first Sandarbhas, and then Jiva Goswami revised them.
1.) Siva resides in the Mahakalapura. That’s not Kailash?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Kailash is on Earth, and then he has this Mahakalapura above Prakriti. Liberation [Not clear] Brahman.
Devotee: Is this Kailash here?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : I guess so. And here Himalayas. Actually, this is in the wrong place. Brahmajyoti should be in [Not clear].
2.) Gopakumar is the cowherd boy. In Vrindavan, originally?
Yeah, he was born there.
Devotee: He’s not an associate, a friend of Krishna.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, no, he’s just a regular cowherd.
3.) Which time was Gopakumar living on Earth?
It must have been another day of Brahma. Because he spent some time in Brahmaloka, Maharloka and Tapaloka [Laughs], all these places. And that is a long time. He saw the whole day go by. So that’s previous day, previous day like that.
4.) Maharaj, this is all composition. We have nine kind of process. Smarana is the most important.
Well, that’s what the people on Tapaloka were saying, because they were involved in you know meditation. But then the Vishnu dutas they said, no [Laughs], Kirtan is the most important [Laughs].
5.) Maharaj this work, does it look like the work of the mind. Does Krishna reveal to Sanatana Gosvami’s heart?
Yeah, yeah. Its [Not clear] spiritual realization [Laughs].
Devotee : The chanting means smarana at the same time [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: That’s true. Yeah, yeah.
Devotee : [Not clear].
6.) Why we do sadhana, why do we meditate?
The purpose is to please the lord. Yeah, so in Jnana the purpose is to get liberation, so they both have intentions behind them.
7.) Where the Supreme Lord appears? In Mind ?
Oh actually he appears in the atma and it is a function of the atma not of the mind but it manifest consequently in the mind and in the senses also. But that is secondary, actually it’s a manifestation in the atma.
Devotees : HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj Ki Jai !!! Srila Prabhupada Ki Jai !!!