Srimad Bhagavatam – 11.10.9 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 27 March 2021
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 10 Verse 9.
ŚB 11.10.9
nirodhotpatty-aṇu-bṛhan-
nānātvaṁ tat-kṛtān guṇān
antaḥ praviṣṭa ādhatta
evaṁ deha-guṇān paraḥ
Synonyms
nirodha — dormancy; utpatti — manifestation; aṇu — tiny; bṛhat — large; nānātvam — the variety of characteristics; tat-kṛtān — produced by that; guṇān — qualities; antaḥ — within; praviṣṭaḥ — having entered; ādhatte — accepts; evam — thus; deha — of the material body; guṇān — qualities; paraḥ — the transcendental entity.
Translation
Just as fire may appear differently as dormant, manifest, weak, brilliant and so on, according to the condition of the fuel, similarly, the spirit soul enters a material body and accepts particular bodily characteristics.
Purport
Although fire may appear and disappear within a particular object, the element fire always exists. Similarly, the eternal soul appears within a suitable body and then disappears from that body, but the soul always exists. Just as fire is different from its fuel, the soul is different from the body. A match makes a tiny fire, whereas the explosion of a huge gasoline tank will send flames shooting up into the sky. But still, fire is one. Similarly, one spirit soul may appear in the body of Brahmā and another in the body of an ant, but the spirit soul is qualitatively the same in every body. Because of ignorance we impose the bodily characteristics upon the soul, and thus we say that a particular person is American, Russian, Chinese, African or Mexican or that he is old or young. Although such designations certainly apply to the body, they do not apply to the spirit soul, which is described here as paraḥ, or a transcendental entity. As long as the bewildered spirit soul remains inimical to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the designations of the gross and subtle bodies will wrap themselves around him, keeping him in darkness. If one intellectually identifies oneself with various materialistic philosophies of life, he becomes covered by the subtle mind. Ultimately everything that exists is part and parcel of the Absolute Truth, Lord Kṛṣṇa. When the living entity realizes this, he becomes nirupādhi, or free from material designations. This is his constitutional position.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So the example given here continues from the example of fire in the last verse. So fire is different from wood. So the atma is different from material body. So in this verse according to the different types of fuel, the fire will manifest as weak or strong. Similarly the soul manifests itself differently in different types of bodies. So we have a classification of different types of living entities. So we have those which are considered low living entities like plants. And above that then we get some animals. And then we get human beings. And then devatas, sages. And at the top we have Brahma. So according to the different bodies the consciousness manifests differently. So in plants the consciousness manifests to a lesser degree. So the plants don’t have the same amount of conscious awareness as animals. They don’t have particular senses. They don’t have brains. And if we go through the animals then we get the lesser animals and the more developed animals. So some of these animals have very primitive systems. And then some animals are very developed, so the developed animals are something like human beings, so they have eyes and nose and ears and brains etc. And then we have the human being. And even among human beings according to the different bodies, subtle and gross bodies then the consciousness manifests differently also. So some people are in tamoguna, some people are in rajoguna, some people are in sattvaguna. So those who are in sattvaguna are considered to be more developed. So in sattvaguna the living entity can use his consciousness for seeking spiritual life. So we can say the consciousness is better utilized in the human form than in the lower forms. So the possibility is there in the human form but we also know that not all human beings take advantage of this higher form. And in fact if the human being is left on his own, it is very difficult for him to advance. But if the human being gets the knowledge from scriptures and through devotees, then he gets a very good opportunity to very quickly advance.
So this verse is talking about how the body creates greater or lesser obstruction to the atma. So based on this logically, the next step is to get rid of the body completely. So this is the stage of liberation. So in the varnashrama system we have artha, dharma, kama and moksha. So artha, dharma and kama are for people in the lower modes and moksha is for people who are more elevated. So the goal is to eventually lead all the human beings towards moksha. So there, the atma and consciousness are free from the interference of the material body, gross and subtle. However, as we know from Bhagavatam, this is not the goal. For people on a lower level yes, it is a goal. For people on a higher level it is not the goal. So therefore, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, besides the four puruṣārthas or human goals we have the fifth one called prema. So unless we come to the level of prema, then the jiva has not completed his process of development. So particularly the goal of prema can only be achieved if we get proper knowledge. If we don’t get that knowledge, then we cannot attain prema. So that is why the scriptures are important for us. Of course, we take those scriptures through the devotees of the Lord. And this way we get the proper understanding of the scriptures.
So though the fire and various types of wood manifest differently, so the consciousness manifests differently in different bodies. So then we may think that if we get rid of the body, then that’s the complete manifestation of the atma. But scripture tell us something else. Full development of the atma like the fire is through developing spiritual body. So that spiritual body does not interfere with the nature and functions of the jiva. The various types of material body interfere with the consciousness of the atma. And therefore the consciousness comes out through the body in a distorted way. So if we get rid of the material body, then we get rid of the distortion. But it is just consciousness. The consciousness does not really function because it is not aware of anything. So if we develop a spiritual body with spiritual senses and spiritual mind and spiritual intelligence and spiritual ego, then we can perceive Supreme Lord. So in that state, the atma can fulfill its function of consciousness.
So the atma by nature is a knower. And a doer and an enjoyer. It cannot really fulfill those functions properly if it is just liberated. In liberation there is no object of knowledge. There is no action. There is no experience. There is simply consciousness. Of course, it is consciousness without the coverings of matter. But by developing a spiritual body and developing a relationship with the Supreme Lord, then the jiva can fulfill its functions of being a knower, a doer and an enjoyer. Of course, in the material world through the body we act, we do things, we know things and we also enjoy. So this is the manifestation of the jiva in the material world as an enjoyer etc. And what’s wrong with it? It causes karma, it causes suffering. So it is actually a covering on the jiva, an obstruction to the jiva. So by developing a spiritual body then we can be a knower, a doer and enjoyer in relation to the Supreme Lord. The only way you can develop that spiritual body is to get rid of the conception of me and mine and being an enjoyer. So that is the position of prema. We do and we feel everything for the Supreme Lord. And as a result of that, the jiva gets complete satisfaction. So therefore, by doing bhakti and developing prema, the jiva gets the highest satisfaction by fulfilling its functions. So the result is no karma and no suffering but rather eternal bliss. So this is the fifth goal. Compared to the other goals it is much higher. But if one is on the bottom, that is tamoguna or whatever, then it is very difficult for the jiva to even conceive of what prema is. So they are encouraged to fulfill artha and kama through some restrictions called dharma. And as the coverings of material nature become a little less strong then at least they can perceive the goal of moksha. But as I said, that is not the final goal. So therefore the final goal actually is much much higher than moksha.
So in order to attain that prema, then there is special activities. Different activities give different results. So if we do karma yoga we can get swarga loka. If we do jnana yoga we can get liberation. And if we do pure bhakti then we get prema. So the processes are quite distinct and the goals are distinct. If you study law you don’t become a doctor. If you study medicine you don’t become a lawyer [Laughs]. So each particular process has a particular goal. So we have to choose the goal and according to the goal, then we choose the process. But as I said to choose prema is a little bit rare. And we also say don’t preach to the faithless [Laughs]. Nevertheless Lord Caitanya is very merciful and He wants to give out prema even to aparadhis. So through Caitanya Mahaprabhu, bhakti becomes available to everybody in the material world. Particularly through Nama Sankirtana. So therefore, even though people are unqualified and even they may be aparadhis, they can get some benefit from Nama Sankirtana. So of course, it may take time for people to develop. But by constant exposure then, they can progress. Compared to other processes the name of the Lord produces very quick results.
So to destroy your karmas takes many many lifetimes if you follow the process of jnana or yoga. The process of karma yoga does not even attempt to destroy the karmas. It just gives you a better balance of good karmas. But even accidental bhakti can destroy all your karmas immediately. So the process of particularly chanting of the holy name is very very powerful. And though it may look very difficult for the people of kali yuga to accept bhakti and chant the holy name etc, the name is so powerful that it can accomplish this result. And therefore, the emphasis of Lord Caitanya was simply to encourage everybody to go out and let everybody hear the name. And through that people can advance.
Q & A:
1.) Since the soul is spiritual, part and parcel of the Lord and it is superior to the material body and it is independent. How come this superior soul gets affected by the inferior material body in which it is staying and it is not able to overcome itself to release itself and has to depend on the material body for its purification and go back home, back to Godhead.
So the atma is spiritual but at the same time, he is not equal to God. So he is classed as tatastha. He can be in ignorance or he can be in knowledge. It is not guaranteed that, he is always in knowledge. So the nature of the jiva, because of the nature of the jiva then we have jivas who are covered by ignorance and have material bodies. And the main cause of getting the material body is that the jiva denies that he is the servant of the Lord. So he strives for his enjoyment separate from the Lord. And thus with the material body and the senses he tries to enjoy.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. How to understand that sometimes animals get attracted to Krishna Kirtana and not common people, even though consciousness of human is more developed than animals. For example the dog of Sivananda Sena.
So in general, the humans should have higher consciousness than animals but [Laughs] some human beings have lower consciousness than animals also, then they become animals in their next life [Laughs]. And then we have exceptional animals who may have better consciousness than the human being [Laughs]. However, we also have cases of special mercy. So the case of the Sivananda Sena’s dog is a case also of special mercy [Laughs] .
3.) Why Krishna says I will give moksha, don’t worry. How to understand this Maharaj?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: He is referring to what?
Devotee: Probably sarva-dharmān parityajya mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ [Bg 18.66]. I’ll give you liberation.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, yeah. I’ll free you from your sins. He doesn’t say He gives you impersonal liberation. That does not mean that. If in pursuance of bhakti, you happen to reject or not do certain of your dharmas, there is no sin incurred. So, the Lord says, I will free you from that sin. Here is also a quote given I think by Jiva Goswami and others as well, that, if you forget to do your karmas, your regular pious acts in varnashrama system or whatever, then, the sages in the higher planets do all those activities for you [Laughs]. So you [Laughs] don’t get any result [Laughs]. You don’t, No sin [Laughs].
Devotee: I think that should be understood in a very proper perspective Maharaj. Then devotees do not assume that, anyways those things will be done by what you mentioned now. That should not be wrongly misunderstood by a normal sadhaka devotee.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, this doesn’t mean we have a license to indulge in sinful activities, obviously [Laughs]. But even then the Lord says, even if you commit the most sinful activity, you are still my devotee. So you don’t have to do any atonements. You just do bhakti. And of course, in the prayers of the devatas when Krishna was in the womb of Devaki, then they also say that, even if the, of course, if the person like the jnani attains what he thinks as liberation, if he doesn’t worship the Lord, he falls. And then the next verse is well, but the devotees they seem to fall also, so but then, if they fall, they are still protected by the Lord [Laughs]. The Lord protects them. So they step on the head of death and they overcome all obstacles. So the Lord protects those persons. The person who does jnana, no, he doesn’t give him any protection.
4.) Maharaj, you had mentioned that preaching to faithless people is an offense. But you also told that even to aparadhis, Mahaprabhu gave mercy by preaching. How we can understand this Maharaj?
So the general principle for people who don’t have faith is we expose them to the holy name. We don’t do more than that. We just let them hear the name. By hearing the name constantly, then they get purified of their offenses.
5.) Maharaj, you had mentioned that to attain prema, we need proper knowledge. But we often hear that bhakti is independent of knowledge. Hope it is jnana process. What knowledge bhakti depends to attain prema?
Well, when I say knowledge, we don’t mean the jnana of impersonalism. We mean knowledge of bhakti which is Bhagavatam. So that’s bhakti, it’s not [Laughs] impersonal knowledge.
6.) Though theoretically we know that we are not this body, one finds very difficult to come out of bodily affection, even though practicing bhakti for long years.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So?
Devotee: [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs] So you continue practicing [Laughs].
7.) Jivatma has 50 qualities. By practicing how many qualities more we can develop?
One, the jiva can develop 50 and sometimes 55 qualities. But these are very very small quantity.
8.) How to give up this material body affection and situated in spiritual bhakti platform always?
So the more we develop spiritually and have attraction for Krishna then, the less attraction we have for anything in the material world.
9.) What is the understanding of, or difference or rather the function of the spiritual mind and spiritual intelligence.
So in the spiritual world, we have emotions, we call bhava. So we can say that’s the spiritual mind. So the function of buddhi is discrimination. We distinguish one object from another. So the devotee uses intelligence in order to please Krishna.
10.) Maharaj, since soul also has senses and mind, intelligence, the soul is caught in this material body. So it has a dependent body for its advancement?
Well, the senses and spiritual body will not develop unless you do the sadhana of bhakti. If one does jnana, then you don’t develop any spiritual body with spiritual senses. So as long as we have the material body in sadhana, we use the senses to engage in devotional activities. But when we use those senses to please Krishna with devotion, they no longer have a material function, they don’t cause any karma for us. Rather they become the internal shakti of the Lord and they help us develop bhakti.
11.) We know that the soul is sat-cit-ānanda, eternity, knowledge, blissful. Why it has to depend on the material body? Which means that it is completely zero in bhakti or zero in knowledge and only in the material body it performs bhakti, it gets living, it’s contradictory.
So the, yes we say the soul is sat-cit-ānanda but the cit does not manifest, when we are in the material world, we are covered by ignorance instead [Laughs]. Our knowledge is material knowledge. And the ānanda is manifest as material happiness in the material body. And the sat aspect is only manifested by thinking my body is eternal [Laughs]. So therefore, in the material body sat-cit-ānanda is not manifested of the jiva. And only the sat aspect is manifested in liberation. So the sat-cit-ānanda aspect is manifested nicely if one attains prema.
12.) When we talk of material knowledge, if I understood right, Bhaktivinoda Thakur says one has to have material knowledge also. What should we understand? One must have material knowledge also.
Well, we need enough knowledge to maintain our material body and live in the material world so we can do bhakti [Laughs]. To that extent we need our knowledge.
13.) Maharaj, what is atma tattva?
So that is basically knowing atma. Which is good but it is not complete knowledge.
14.) Maharaj, on the contrary I mean, in one sense, the fifth goal seems to be more easier if one so desires to get it. The fifth goal seems to be apparently easier to achieve if one so desires.
Well, it is easier to achieve by the mercy of the Lord.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!