Seminar on Nama Kirtan | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | Skopje, Macedonia | 20 July 2025
However, in India, there are many types of kirtans. People glorify different Devatas, they glorify Shiva. So we have Shiva kirtan, we have Durga kirtan, we have Ganesh kirtan, all sorts of kirtans. But particularly, the Bhagavatam talks about kirtan of the Lord’s names. Of course, the Lord refers not to any Devata, but to Bhagavan, who can also take many forms. He can be Vishnu or Rama or Narasimha or Krishna or other forms as well. But there is a clear distinction between what are called Devatas and the Supreme Lord, Bhagavan.
And of course, in India, people generally don’t make much of a distinction. Everybody’s God. And I have so many gods and we go to different temples and they say everybody’s God. However, if we look in Srimad Bhagavatam and other Puranas, we will see that it’s not so. Because there’s a distinction. The Supreme Lord does not have a material body whereas the Devatas live and die. So we have a person like Indra or Varuna, God of rain, God of water, etc. Suryadev, they have material bodies and they die. So they are not Supreme Lord. They are, of course, superior to us and they have superior power and intelligence given by the Lord. And thus, if one prays to them, one can get benedictions. If we pray to an ordinary person in this world, they don’t give us anything [Laughs]. We maybe pray to a great man, he will give us some money or something. If we pray to a Devata, they can give us extraordinary things. But it’s all material. And it’s limited. So the Vedas also describe this. Now, of course, there’s a plus point in worshiping Devatas. Because if you worship Devatas, you have to follow some rules. And in following those rules, it means you have to control your senses.
So, of course, around the world, we see that in religions, they have some rules, especially during certain times of the year. Some sort of penance in which you have to be a little more self-controlled, etc. I think in the Orthodox Church for one month or something, you have to stop eating meat, whatever like this [Laughs]. So in the Catholic Church, you have to stop eating fish. No, you eat no meat on Friday. It used to be like that. Fish on Friday, no meat [Laughs]. Some austerity is there. In Jewish and Islam, they don’t eat pork or whatever. There’s a little bit of restriction is there. So if you worship Devatas, he also has some restriction on eating anything and doing anything. So there’s some morality involved in worshiping Devatas. And you do that properly, then you get some material results. So that is the benefit. Of course, the results are temporary and material.
An intelligent person will understand that if we worship for material benefits, yes, it’s pleasing to us but ultimately, it is not satisfying because it is destructible and we’re back to the same position. So the Vedas tell us, therefore, this is not so intelligent after all, even though it is recommended in scripture at the same time, better we do something to stop the process of birth and death for ourself and we get permanent happiness.
So in the Vedas, they have something called Jnana Kanda from which we get Jnana Yoga, and in this process of Jnana Yoga, we do austerities, control the senses, and we begin to understand we’re not the body, but we are eternal atma. And if we can fix ourself on that, detach from everything in the material world, we get liberation or Mukti or Moksha and then we’re permanently out of this world, no more birth and death. So that appeals to some people. Especially because it rejects all these forms and activities and results of these devatas. So we enter a state of no form, no qualities, no activities, very peaceful. So many people become attracted to that. Especially people who have reached, we call the level of Sattva. They transcended Tamo guna and Rajo guna and they come to Sattva guna. They will appreciate this idea of some impersonal state of liberation. So this is glorified a lot in the Vedic literature, particularly the Upanishads.
However, if we look closer in the Upanishads and works like Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita, we will also find that there’s something higher than this, higher than liberation, higher than eternal life, so to speak [Laughs]. So what is that? Of course, it is also eternal life, but it is eternal life with activity. Eternal life with forms, with qualities. So this is where we get to the stage of recognizing the Supreme Lord, whom we call Bhagavan or Parameshwara or Purushottama. So who is that person? Not a Devata with a material body, but a person who has got an eternal spiritual body.
How do we know about the person? We cannot know on our own with our intelligence. We have to go to scripture. So the scripture tells us to make this distinction between ordinary people, Devatas and Supreme Lord. And it will tell us who is that Supreme Lord, what he looks like. This is a rather unique realization. We say advanced spiritual life. And for many people in India, very advanced. Most people in India are at the level of the Devata worship. And they can’t even get to the liberation. Some, of course, intellectuals get to this idea of liberation, etc. But fewer come to the level of realizing, oh, the Supreme Lord is there and he has a form and we can worship him and develop love for him.
And around the world, this idea of form of God is also controversial. Most people in religions don’t accept it. God cannot have a form. And if we give God a form, then it’s useless, ridiculous material. So this is, we can say, one prejudice in many religions. God cannot have a form. Very, very prominent. At the same time, it is the nature of the human being to worship. It’s also the nature of the human being to worship a form. It is very difficult to get away from a form. So why do so many religions reject form? Why? Because form is material [Laughs]. Every form we think of is a material form. And we think of God, we’ll make it imagine some form and then we’ll worship that form. And that’s imaginary and that’s useless. It’s material. So, because we are used to material forms and the result is, you know, whimsical worship and such as material forms, it gets rejected.
However, the Vedas say that apart from material form and material qualities, we have spiritual form and spiritual qualities and we make a distinction. And if we worship spiritual form and spiritual qualities, it’s not a problem. It’s not a contamination. It’s not a corruption or whatever like that. So this is a rather unique feature of the Vedas, that they present different types of worship for different types of people. Not one. They allow people to go on these different paths. Worship Devatas, worship impersonal form of God and Brahman, and also worship personal form of God, Bhagavan. So we get three basic choices you can make. So we’re very liberal, not fanatically have to do only this, nothing else [Laughs]. So in that sense, very good. Of course, to be very liberal also gets criticized. That means you worship anything. But no, it doesn’t mean that. You have to worship according to scripture. Even if you’re going to worship Devatas, don’t worship anybody. Only certain forms you worship and with certain rules and certain results. So it’s not just concoct anything you want in worship. So, but still, there is a little bit of freedom, etc. for some different types of worship. But to get to that level of actually accepting a personal form, qualities and activities of God, that’s the highest stage. And we see this. Most religions struggle with this, trying to accept that. To accept some qualities of God. God is all powerful. God has got all knowledge. That’s much to accept.
But beyond that, not much quality. We don’t know what is the form of God. No, I don’t know. You know, there’s a famous picture in the Vatican. God creates the world [Laughs]. And anyone know the form of God? Actually, was it Michelangelo? Yeah. So he decided to do this. Maybe it was controversial when he did it. But anyway, he made the form of God because usually it’s the saints, you know, on the statues, etc. Like that. Angels, you never get a form of God. So he got a form of God creating Adam and Eve. They put a form up there, actually. And what is the form? An old man [Laughs]. Well, then we’ll ask, was God old? Who wants to get old? Anybody? Anyone want to get old now? Why God should be old then [Laughs]? But they make God old because, of course, God is the oldest person. He’s eternal [Laughs]. So in that sense, he’s the oldest. But he’s got a beard. He’s got white hair, etc. Like that. Then he’s putting his hand out and touching Adam and Eve and giving them life, whatever like that. So we actually made a depiction of God with a form as an old human being. So the Christians, when they see the Christ, ok, that is not actual real form of God because God has no form. This is just a symbol. That’s all. It’s only a symbol. So again, they get rid of the form like that.
But it’s kind of natural that people want to give a form to God. If they want to worship something, they have to worship some sort of form, not something abstract. So that’s why it creeps in. And of course, even depicting Christ is another attempt. You can’t give a form to God. So let’s give a form to Christ. So they put Christ on the cross and they have icons in the church and whatever like that. Of Christ, at least. If we can’t do God, at least Christ is there. He’s representative of God. And of course, in Buddhism, also no form is there. But everybody worships Buddha in the temple. So many temples are there in Thailand and China and Japan. All Buddha and everybody worshiping a form again. But anyway, ultimately, that’s all Maya, this is all illusion. You’ve got to reject all formless material.
But the Vedas say no, actually, there’s eternal form of God. Not just form of God, forms of God [Laughs]. So people struggle with the form of God in India. And in the Vedas, no, not just one form. God’s got all powers, many forms. And he’s not an old man [Laughs]. So Krishna is very young [Laughs], like eight years old [Laughs]. So whoever thought of an eight-year-old God, Krishna. But he can be adult also. So Vishnu is adult form. But he’s not limited to being a human being. Of course, he can be two-armed form like Krishna, very human-like or like Rama. Or he can be four-armed form like Vishnu. Even eight-armed form of Vishnu also. Even thousand-armed form of Vishnu or even Narasimha deva had thousand arms when he appeared to kill Hiranyakasipu. But he can be an animal. He can be a horse. He can be a bird. He can be a fish. He can be a snake. He can be a turtle. He can be a lion. He can be all sorts of forms as God. And they’re all non-material. So it’s no problem. How can God be a pig? But he also becomes Varaha, a wild boar kind of thing with his big tusks. And but its spiritual, not material, not impure. And always beautiful with no faults. All wonderful qualities, all powers, all knowledge, etc. So God can expand himself into unlimited types of forms. And in these forms, he does unlimited types of activities. So this is the Bhagavan, which is accepted in Bhagavatam and other scriptures. God can have a form which is spiritual. So we distinguish. We have kirtan of the Supreme Lord. So that means kirtan of these forms of the Lord who are actually spiritual forms, not material forms.
So we accept this, all these different forms. This may become a little bit confusing. We got so many paths. We can worship Devatas, do Jnana Yoga and worship impersonal form. And then we have personal form and that itself becomes a little confusing for people. So and then over that, then we have so many forms of God you could worship. Also may be a little confusing for people. Too many choices. So this also is resolved in Srimad Bhagavatam. There, it is stated that, yes, the Vedas are very generous and they provide many paths for many people of different qualification. However, Naradamuni advised Vedavyasa who wrote Srimad Bhagavatam and other Puranas as well as Bhagavad Gita said, all of this worship of Devatas, whatever. It’s too confusing for people. Don’t give people many paths. Particularly in Kali Yuga, our present age, people are a little confused [Laughs]. And you do this, say this, say that. You can do this or this or this or this. Everybody gets confused about what to do. It’s better you only give them one option. Worship the Supreme Lord Bhagavan. But then what form? – Narasimha, Rama or Krishna ? Still we’re all stuck. You know, everyone gets confused again. No, just tell everyone worship Krishna. One form [Laughs]. So that’s the unique quality of Srimad Bhagavatam. To say that, yes, there are many forms of God. There are many other worships, many other goals, whatever. But for people in this age, best if everyone worship Krishna. So that is what the Bhagavatam is recommending. Just worship Krishna.
So therefore, yes, Kirtan very good. You should have Kirtan of the Lord’s name, Bhagavan’s name. And actually, it should be the name of Krishna [Laughs]. So actually, Nama Kirtan. Name, whose name? Krishna’s name. All the different names of the Lord. Of course, there are other types of Kirtan also. We can have Kirtans, glorification, singing about the Lord’s qualities, called guna Kirtan. And we can have lila Kirtan, glorification of the Lord in which we describe his pastimes, called lila Kirtan. And these, of course, are also done in some places like Bengal. They have lila Kirtans. They have Kirtans describing the pastimes of Krishna, whatever like that, quite famous. Or guna Kirtans, the qualities of the Lord. However, it requires a little bit more skill and a little bit more knowledge to do those, because there’s more words [Laughs]. So the simplest is simply the name of the Lord. Just chant the name of the Lord. Good enough. Even if we can’t describe all of those pastimes or all the qualities of the Lord, if you simply chant the name of Krishna, it includes everything. So you get the benefit of all Krishna’s pastimes and all Krishna’s qualities when you simply chant the name of Krishna. So this is the simplest possible form of worship of the Supreme Lord, Krishna.
Of course, Krishna, very special. Why Narada Muni advised Veda Vyasa to tell everyone to worship just Krishna, rather than other forms? Why Krishna? Why not Rama? Why not Narasimhadeva? They’re all Supreme Lords. So all equally, they can give you a great benefit eternally. However, of all the different forms, Krishna is put at the top. That may sound a little strange, because if God is one, but he has many forms, how can you say one is superior to the other? Because they’re all one [Laughs]. How can Rama be better than Narasimhadeva? How can Krishna be better than Rama? Well, this doesn’t make any sense, because they’re all one God anyway. That’s true. So Vishnu, Krishna, Rama, all one. And no one’s superior to the other, because they’re all one [Laughs].
However, that one God, one Supreme Lord, takes many forms. And in those particular forms, he manifests particular qualities. And he does particular things which are different from the other forms. So for instance, we see the form of Varaha. He looks like a boar, wild boar. And he’s got his tusks like that. He’s got four legs or whatever. And what do boars do? They run around the forest and they dig up things with their tusks, eat roots and stuff like that. So the Lord takes the form of Varaha. And why that form particularly? Because he had to lift the earth out of the Garbhodaka Ocean. And so he went down there and dug around in the mud, and he pulled out the earth with his tusks [Laughs]. So you sometimes see pictures of Varaha there with earth standing on him, sitting on his tusks here like this. So his form was quite functional.
We have Narasimhadeva, who has a lion head with lion claws. But what is a lion? A lion is a very ferocious animal that kills the other animals, king of the beasts, and likes to tear things apart [Laughs]. So what did Narasimhadeva do? He tore apart Hiranyakasipu in great ferocious anger. So that was a very suitable form also for Narasimhadeva. Supreme Lord is Narasimhadeva. So these particular forms have particular qualities they manifest, particular pastimes they manifest. Ramachandra has a human-like form, like a king. And he acts like a king. And he’s the ideal king, still worshiped today in India as ideal king or ideal ruler. So the various forms also reflect different qualities, special qualities.
Of course, they have all qualities. But in that particular form, they will manifest a certain number of qualities and do certain pastimes which are typical for that particular form. So Rama has his particular pastimes. Krishna has pastimes. Narasimhadeva has pastimes. They have the particular qualities. So an example is given. It is like the moon. So we have one moon here, only one moon here. In Vedic astronomy, however, they name the moon differently on different days. So we get 15 days, 15 names of the Lord and another 15 names. So we get a total of 30 names [Laughs] of the moon. Why? Because every day the moon is changing in size. It gets bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger for 15 days. Then it starts getting smaller, smaller, smaller. So they give 15 names when it’s getting bigger, 15 names when it’s getting smaller. That’s one moon. But it’s got a slightly different form every day and a different name like that. So that’s like the different forms of the Lord. One Lord, but taking different forms and manifesting different amounts of qualities. So that form that manifests all the qualities to the highest degree is Krishna. Therefore, he’s put number one, just like Purnima is full moon. Yeah, we can’t say that the dark moon is the same as obviously there’s no light showing that. So the full moon’s got the most light. Similarly, Krishna is that form which manifests all the qualities in most spectacular way and therefore most attractive.
So why not everybody worship the most attractive form? That’s the easiest for everybody to worship. So therefore, that is why Narada Muni advised Vedavyasa to tell everybody in Kali Yuga, just worship Krishna. He’s the highest form, most attractive form, people are most fallen. So therefore, they need the most attractive form. So everybody worship Krishna. So that’s the reason why Krishna is recommended. So Krishna is recommended for worship. But worship itself can be very complex as well. So we have deity worship. This is more complex. We require certain articles to offer. We use different mantras. We have different procedures. We have purification, rites? So many things for deity worship. And if you don’t do it properly, there’s no effect [Laughs]. So in Bhakti, worshipping the Lord, we have these different ways we can worship. But some of them, like the deity worship, require more rules, etc.
Bhakti in the form of kirtan, that is chanting the name of the Lord, is the simplest form of worship of the Lord. Everyone should worship the Lord in Kali Yuga. But then it also says at the end of Bhagavatam, in Kali Yuga, the way to worship the Lord is kirtan. So chanting the name of the Lord is the simplest possible worship of the Lord. And of course, it’s worshipping Krishna. So we do kirtan of Krishna’s name, simplest possible form. Though it is the simplest, it does not mean therefore it is inferior. Usually some simple things are inferior. Like you go to school and you learn one plus one is two, two plus two is four, etc. Or a little basic arithmetic in first grade. Okay, simple. So yeah, it’s simple. And if you get to 12th standard, you go to college, and then you have to learn trigonometry and all these things, you know, calculus, all this very, very complex things. It’s much more advanced. So because it is the simplest possible form of worship, we should not think that therefore it is inferior. Of course, this is first year’s grade school. Yes, it is inferior [Laughs], simple and inferior. But sometimes the highest things are also the simplest things. So the highest, most powerful spiritual method is chanting the name of Krishna. It’s the simplest thing, but it’s also the most powerful.
So, in scripture, it describes that, you know, in dharma, that people are supposed to do activities. Some of the activities are called sin or papa. The things you shouldn’t do, and you do them very bad. And you get suffering as a result. You go to hell or whatever, things like that. So how to get rid of it? Of course, we shouldn’t do the activity, but still people do. If they do, what do they do? There is what is called prayaschitta or atonement. It’s like Catholic Church where they do, what is it, confession [Laughs]? I sin like this, you confess your sin, they get rid of your reactions like that. So these are called atonements in Indian or prayaschittas. So you do certain activities to counteract the sins you’ve committed in this lifetime and that way you avoid your bad reactions later on, bad karma. So for every sin, there is atonement. And the more serious the sin, the greater atonement you have to do. So you may have to fast for a year or two years or three years or whatever, If you do a great sin. If you do a light sin, you may be fast for one day or two days. So according to the seriousness of the sin, then you get greater and greater atonements or, you know, remedy. But it is said that, simply by chanting the name of the Lord once, you can destroy all those reactions to all the sins, even the most serious ones [Laughs]. So even the most sinful person, you chant the name of the Lord once, you’re all free of all the sins.
Of course, in the Bhagavatam, we have the case of Ajamila. He was a sinful Brahmana who was doing all sorts of criminal activities. To support his wife and his children, illegitimate wife and children by the wife, whatever, doing all sorts of things and killing people and stealing and whatever. Very, very sinful, especially because he was a Brahmana and he should have known better. But he had fallen and he was doing all these sinful activities. So a lot of sin and therefore a lot of suffering was due to him. And he didn’t do any atonements. And he continued for many years doing this, then he was about to die. And then the servants of Yamaraj came to punish him. Yes, we had to punish him because all these sins are there. No atonements, nothing he did. We got to punish him in hell for so many years. But the servants of Vishnu came and said, no, you can’t do that. And they said, why? He didn’t do any atonements. He did the sins. We know we saw all the sins. He didn’t do any atonements. He has to get punished. This is what our master Yamaraj has said. And then they were very shocked how you can say he shouldn’t be punished. So the Vishnu dutas said, well, our master says anyone who chants the name of the Lord once, he is free from all sins.
So this really confused the servants of Yamaraj. How is this possible? And they went back to Yamaraj and asked him, what’s happening here? Because, you know, we’re following your orders. But then the servants of Vishnu, they said, you can’t do this. And they took him away. So then Yamaraja confirmed, yes, chanting the name of the Lord is atonement for all sins. So what happened was that Ajamila simply named his son Narayana. He did not chant the name of the Lord with devotion. He was not doing it as an atonement. He just named his son Narayana. But naming his son Narayana was the name of Vishnu. By chanting that name, he atoned for all of his sins. So therefore, Yamaraj and his servants could not touch him at all. So this is one accidental name of the Lord was powerful enough to do that.
So the name is simple, but very, very powerful. Why? Because it is non-different from the Lord. The Lord, of course, can absolve all of your sins. No problem. But name is non-different from Him. So by chanting the name of Lord, we invoke Supreme Lord Himself. Now Narayana is there. But as we know, Krishna is the highest form of the Lord. So if we chant the name of Krishna, it’s even more powerful. So it’s hard to say, well, they’re all Supreme Lord. Less power, more power, how is that? But as I said, the different forms display different amounts of qualities. So then we put Krishna at the top. So He’s the most merciful of all, whatever like that. So it is said in the Puranas and in the Vishnu Sahasranama, actually, that we have a thousand names of Vishnu. Very, very powerful. And people in India chant it a lot. But then it is said, one name of Rama, to say Rama once is equal to all the thousand names of Vishnu. You don’t have to spend all your time chanting a thousand names of Vishnu. One Rama name is enough [Laughs]. Rama, that covers 1,000 Vishnu names. So in other words, a thousand times more potent. One name of Rama. But then it is said in Brahma-vaivarta Purana that three names of Rama is equal to one name of Krishna [Laughs]. A Krishna name more powerful is worth 3,000 Vishnu names [Laughs]. So that just means Krishna’s name is the most powerful of all. Now, of course, we shouldn’t measure power in terms of simply destroying sin. Of course, that is good. If you destroy all your karmas, then you get liberation. But that may be the goal for a person doing Jnana Yoga. Get liberation. If we don’t want liberation, of course, you can also worship Krishna or chant his name. And you can go to Svargaloka or whatever. Get material benefits, no problem. But those who are serious about realizing Bhagavan, Supreme Lord Krishna, and going beyond liberation, they worship and chant the name of the Lord without these desires for liberation or for material benefits. This will be called Pure Bhakti.
What is the result of that? Result of practicing Pure Bhakti or Pure Name, Suddha-nama, is that we get Prema. Now, what is Prema? Prema, of course, means love. Even in normal language in Indian, it means love. But of course, that means spiritual love. Or more accurately, we can say unconditional love for Supreme Lord, not for people, but for Supreme Lord, and in our case, Krishna. So we can say Krishna Prema, unconditional love for Krishna. That’s the goal, the ultimate goal of chanting. You can get all these other material goals and liberation, etc. But for the highest goal of all that is promised in scripture is Krishna Prema. Of course, Krishna of all the different forms of the Lord, Krishna is the most complete. So therefore, it’s the best Prema also.
So why, what is this Prema? Actually, by nature, we are Atma or Jiva, not material body. We are soul, spiritual particle, whatever. And the spiritual particle, the Atma or the Jiva, has a nature of desiring happiness. It’s natural. Even animals, plants, they all desire happiness, and do things to survive in material world, preserve the body and get happier, whatever. Dogs and cats or whatever, trying to be happy. Human beings also try to be happy. Of course, this is what we call material happiness, Sukha. And it’s never perfect, because everything is temporary [Laughs]. Everything you get, get happiness with, this is strong. So we can try to be happy by material things, eating, sleeping, mating, defending, all this, we’re happy. But it’s all temporary, and it’s also frustrating.
Of all those different things, of course, maybe the best, highest way we could say is, we try to establish a loving relationship, and then we’ll be happy. So therefore, even if people have money and so many things like that, still, they’re trying for another type of happiness. So they get married, and they try to have happiness in married life, etc, because they want a loving relationship like that. So there’s always an attempt at happiness. Why? Because it’s the nature of the Atma itself to have happiness. And the ultimate happiness for Jiva is to have a happy relationship [Laughs], happy, loving relationship.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t work out in the material world. Why? Because the relationships are based on bodies, and the bodies are temporary, and they die. And it’s frustrating. Everything you love dies, or whatever like that. The husband dies, the wife dies, the children die, whatever like that. It’s there for the dogs and the cats, and it’s there for the human beings [Laughs]. Bodies die, and the loving relationship, even if it survives, so many things, it perishes. So it’s very frustrating. But nevertheless, we’re trying to be happy, and we’re trying to be happy through relationship. So this happiness, desire for happiness is fulfilled through the practice of bhakti and chanting the holy name when we get to the stage of prema.
Prema is a relationship of love, but not with a material body, not with a material person, with a perfect person, Supreme Lord, who has eternal spiritual body. So that relationship is never broken. We develop a relationship which is with eternal form of the Lord. We develop eternal form. And the Lord has no bad qualities, all perfect qualities. So therefore, relationship is perfect. So we have a perfect, eternal relationship of love with the Lord. That is called prema. What is the result? Happiness or ananda, bliss. So this is, of course, what is expressed in Bhagavatam. But it goes back even to the Upanishads, where in Taittirīya Upanishad 2.7.1, it says this. What is the Lord? raso vai saḥ The Lord is rasa.
What is rasa? Rasa means relationship of love. And of course, this is expanded by Rupa Goswami in Nectar of devotion [Laughs], Bhakti rasamrita sindhu, the ocean of sweet rasa in bhakti. So when we do bhakti, we ultimately get prema and in prema there is rasa. There is a sweet relationship with the Lord, which takes different forms like madhurya rasa or sakhya rasa or vatsalya rasa or dasya rasa. Yeah. So it’s a relationship with a certain taste and taste of love. So Taittirīya Upanishad says the Lord is rasa himself. And of course, in the Nectar of devotion, the first verse is the Lord is akhila rasamrta murti (BRS 1.1.1). The Lord is the very form of all sweet rasas [Laughs]. This is the Lord himself. He is rasa. That’s his very nature.
To establish relationships with us in love. That is the very nature of the Lord. And then the Taittirīya Upanishad says, and then the jiva attaining rasa experiences bliss. So the final result of this rasa is ananda or bliss. And that’s exactly what the jiva wants. So therefore, this process of bhakti to attain prema is the goal is we say the fulfillment of the jiva. This is what the jiva needs and wants. And when he gets that rasa, he gets complete bliss, he is satisfied, hence eternal.
So that very high goal of rasa with Krishna is accomplished by chanting Krishna’s name. Very simple process, but we get highest spiritual goal, we attain that. So therefore, simple process, simplest possible process of all the spiritual processes. And even in bhakti, it’s the simplest process, but it’s the most powerful. And they say, but mainly by itself, they can give that highest goal, which is the highest bliss in the spiritual world. So this is what is taught in Bhagavatam. It’s also not just taught in Bhagavatam, it is revealed by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because before that, Krishna, not much known or whatever like that. Nama Sankirtana, not much known. But it is Caitanya Mahaprabhu who has revealed Krishna and is real. Nama Sankirtana is the main process. He’s the one that’s done this. And that is who we’re following. Of course, we say that rasa is the highest bliss from the rasa. And when we have rasa with Krishna, we get bliss with Krishna. That’s the highest also.
There are many relationships with Krishna. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu has also revealed that the highest rasa with the highest person is relationship of Radha and Krishna. That’s the highest rasa of all, Madhurya rasa. So we say Lord Caitanya is very merciful, Maha vadanya, etc. Yeah, he’s merciful to all the jivas. But why is he most merciful is because he is the one that reveals the Madhurya rasa of Radha and Krishna to us. Not just Krishna, but Radha and Krishna and Madhurya rasa. He is the one that’s giving to the people of Kali Yuga. So because he can do that, even though everyone’s so unqualified [Laughs], he does that. Why is mercy? He’s considered most merciful of all. Even more merciful than Krishna. So he’s giving it out free to the people of Kali Yuga. How? Through Nama Sankirtan. It’s available for everybody. So that is the special mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That he’s presented Nama Sankirtan to give out Radha and Krishna.
So as I said, we chant the name of Krishna. So we in Hare Krishna. It’s very interesting because we could just say name of Krishna is Krishna Krishna Krishna. We just chant Krishna [Laughs] like that. But then Lord Caitanya says, no, you chant ‘Hare Krishna’ [Laughs]. So that’s very suitable because, as I said, Lord Caitanya is presenting Radha and Krishna. So, of course, we’re chanting Krishna’s name in Hare Krishna. But Hare is the evocative form of Hara. We call out to Hara, it becomes Hare. So who is Hara? Hara is a feminine form. So who is Hara? Hara is Radha. So we’re chanting, calling out to Radha. And we’re calling out to Krishna, calling out to both of them. So Hare and Krishna. So this way, we’re not only just chanting Krishna’s name, we’re also chanting Radha’s name. So that’s another special gift of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So that we can realize highest rasa, not of just Krishna, but of Radha and Krishna. So that’s very special gift of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
So therefore, we should not think that this chanting of Hare Krishna is just some sounds, material sounds or material music or whatever. It’s actually the highest spiritual process. And it gets us to the highest spiritual level in the spiritual world and gives us the highest bliss. So it is something very, very special. So that is what Lord Caitanya has presented. He’s passed that on. The Goswamis like Rupa and Sanatana and Gopal Bhatta and Jiva Goswami have written scriptures to support all of that. And that is what has come down to us and it’s revealed to the whole world by Srila Prabhupada and his movement. So we should take advantage of this and treasure what is given to us. Srila Prabhupada wrote many books. So if we read those books, we can support that chanting with proper knowledge, so we can chant purely and perform bhakti purely. And we do that, then we get that perfection of the highest spiritual goal.
Okay. Any question there?
Q & A:
1.) We heard that we should the name of Krishna but the mahamantra also has the name of Rama ?
So why the name of Rama? Of course, one reason is that this whole Hare Krishna mantra is found in Upanishad, which gives us some extra, let’s say, authority [Laughs]. Because even though the name is independent of everything and you just chant the name of the Lord its good, if we have some scriptural foundation, then it becomes a little more credible for people. And especially Upanishads are considered to be shruti. So they’re considered to be very authoritative. So in the Kali santarana Upanishad, we have this mantra with Hare Krishna and Hare Rama in it. Not just one name, but we have all 16 names or whatever. So there we have Hare Krishna. We also have Hare Rama. Of course, Rama could mean Ramachandra. It’s also a name in the Vishnu Sahasra nama, so it could be the name of Vishnu even. If you look at the Narasimha Sahasra nama [Laughs], you also find Rama there. So it’s a common name. And ultimately, of course, the word Rama comes from a verb form, which means to please or to enjoy. So when we say, talk of Krishna as being Rama, the one who gives enjoyment to somebody [Laughs]. So who does Krishna give enjoyment to? Radha. So therefore, Rama refers to the giver of joy and pleasure to Radha. That is Rama. That is Krishna [Laughs]. So in that sense, it refers to Krishna also.
The word Krishna itself, if we analyze it in terms of scripture and Sanskrit, whatever, Krish means the source of all existence. And Na means the source of all bliss. So then Krishna also refers to the most blissful person [Laughs]. As well as being the most powerful person. And of course, Radha or Hara is the Hladini Shakti of the Lord. It’s also the bliss Shakti. So Krishna gives bliss to Radha, who is the bliss Shakti.
2.) Maharaj Hare Krishna, I have a practical question for you that I was inspired by listening partially to your talk with Dayanidhi prabhu. You spoke partially online. So it wasn’t clear for me on your position of women in our society nowadays. I mean, in our ISKCON society. The position of women now and in the future, regarding certain controversies that exist. For example, giving women positions in the Diksha guru or GBC or whatever. Considering, in our Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya, there was a [Not clear] parampara, like Srimati Jahnava, Nityananda [Not clear]. Yes, where Srimati Jahnava Thakurani plays the leading role, where she and Nityananda Prabhu are the same form, have the same spiritual form.So they are non different, only in material world they are different. So even Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada said himself that every exalted Vaishnava can be considered and given the role for a Diksha guru, no matter their material body. But then there was also other controversial statements, asking whether girls should go to different schools because girls should teach how to cook.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Sew and cook [Laughs] or something [Laughs].
Devotee : I mean, it’s quite, we can see that it’s deeply conditioned based on their biology, instead of their spiritual position. So, how are we dealing with these controversies today? What is your thought on women’s position in this society, if they are [Not clear] in these positions especially, and in the future? Considering now you also mentioned that even in the spiritual platform, we also have to remember and honor and worship the names of Radha, is equal to Krishna. And even worship by Him.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Radha controls Krishna.
Devotee : Right?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs]
Devotee : So, she’s built like [Not clear]. I don’t think we can achieve Prema without honoring in our awareness and worshiping Radha herself. Yeah. Along with her. Yeah. So, in that matter, how are we dealing with this?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, yeah. The position of some of the, we can say, statements to Srila Prabhupada are based upon scripture which talks about Varnashram, in which everybody is classified, including the women [Laughs]. And there, the women are not given a high position. They’re put in a secondary position. That’s, you know, technically. Of course, practically, we see that even then, women, some women got very high positions. So, in like Upanishads, we’ll find that Gargi was a woman Acharya [Laughs]. That’s Vedic life, which is very strict, you know. And Maitreyi also, another one. So, and I think they trace a lineage in the Brhad-aranyaka Upanishad. And that whole line, you can count, there’s several other women there also. So, that of course is not a Diksha line, probably a Siksha line. But anyway, they got high position. And practically, of course, if we look in political history and whatever, we find that a few women also were high position in the courts of the kings or whatever. There was also one, Mataji. Yeah, she was a warrior [Laughs]. Who was that? Recently, more recent, very famous.
Devotee : Lakshmibai.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, very famous warrior. She was a Kshatriya. She was leading the battle [Laughs]. She was like a general [Laughs]. So, you know, it happened. But at the same time, the general idea was that women should take a humble position and serve the husband. That was kind of the, which is the Varnashrama position, like that. And Prabhupada also states that. And therefore, keep the women separate in their education like that. So, that’s one thing. As far as other Vaishnavas and other Sampradayas, they also kept that kind of rigidity in their systems. When we come to the Gaudiyas, then we find completely the opposite. So, we have, of course, first Jahnava, and then we have, I think, the wife of, who was the daughter of Advaitacharya, also became a Diksha guru. And a few, Rasikananda’s wife, I think, also became a guru. I think Srinivasacharya’s wives also became gurus to some degree. Not big, but the biggest one, of course, was Jahnava. So, they did happen. And then later on, of course, even later on, there was a few women in different lines as well. So, it was there within the Gaudiya Sampradaya, where it was not within the other Sampradayas. In Ramanuja, we don’t find any women gurus, or Madhva, we don’t find. So, we do find that within the Gaudiya Sampradaya. Of course, the argument can be given, because they were very special, because Jahnava was the wife of Nityananda, and he is not different from the Supreme Lord, so then she’s also like Shakti [Laughs]. So, that argument could be given, that they’re special. But, of course, even after that, we find within, as I said, the different lines, which were hereditary, there are some women gurus there as well.
So, the Gaudiyas, in other words, did not take it in such a strict way as far as the women’s position, as far as the gurus are concerned. So, at the same time, we find that the whole Varnashrama system has gradually crumbled away in the modern world [Laughs]. Every year it gets a little more crumbled away, even in India itself. The remnants are not there so much. And, of course, we can also say that as far as spiritually speaking, of course, there’s no difference, men and women, whatever, because now we’re a man, in the spiritual world we are a gopi or something, anyway [Laughs]. So, that type of idea is not there in the spiritual world at all. It’s quite different. So, now we’re based on material concepts of men and women, etc. So, it’s material.
And we can argue from that point of view, therefore, in the spiritual movement we shouldn’t make these distinctions between men and women. It’s all kind of equal. But, and of course, it may be all equal, but still, we do have separation of the sexes and we don’t intermingle freely and treat everybody like that. Because we get problems, we get problems, we get illicit relationships, and all that sort of thing taking place. So, we can’t really say it’s quite asexual, ultimately, because we have marriages and things like we have children, whatever. And that’s based on differences. So, we can’t completely ignore the boundaries and whatever. So, there has to be some sort of separation to some degree and rules for that. Therefore, we have a rule like one of the regular principles, no illicit sex [Laughs]. So, we’re making some distinctions there you know.
So, yeah, we don’t have to follow those Varnashrama rules so strictly as in the former times or whatever. Still, there has to be some minimum rules and regulations there. Because we still have some degree of identity with the material body. So, the whole question that comes is how much distinction do we want to make? How much do we want to equalize and how much do we want to keep the roles different? But that’s, of course, the question and that’s the whole problem of we can say one of the problems of ISKCON. Because, Prabhupada said we have to have Varnashram all at the same time so that part of the Varnashram system would be more separation of men and women except more distinctions.
At the same time, we have the idea that Bhakti is superior which is also there in the scriptures. The whole idea of Dharma and Varnashram is much inferior to the concept of Bhakti [Laughs]. And if you take to Bhakti, then you can ignore all the Varnashram or whatever like that, that’s also there. But then we have Prabhupada’s statement that we should institute Varnashram so then there’s a little bit of a contradiction there. If we didn’t have that, then, of course, it would be much easier to institute things like that. But if Prabhupada said we should try to institute Varnashram, therefore we have this more attempts to you know to make strict position of women accepted within the Varnashram system. So, there’s this controversy with ISKCON itself. How it will resolve, I don’t know. But that’s the basis of the controversy. There’s at once the freedom within Bhakti itself and then we have this whole Varnashram and of course the practical distinctions we must make between men and women.
So as far as positions, if Prabhupada didn’t make any women temple presidents, but then later on the GBC made some women GBCs [Laughs], Vaishnavi GBCs or whatever, so they went that far. So now the question is Diksha Guru. As far as Diksha Guru is concerned and of course there were [Not clear] like that but ultimately we should not think that the main spiritual influence is the Diksha Guru because Siksha Guru is equal to Diksha Guru according to Caitanya caritamrita and of course scripture itself and Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati and Srila Prabhupada didn’t even trace a Diksha line, they traced a Siksha line and the Bhagavatam just rarely mentions Diksha at all [Laughs]. It’s all Siksha so and so teaches somebody to so and so. So the whole thing is Siksha basically has to be more important than the Diksha. So if we’re aspiring for giving spiritual guidance, our goal should not be to be a Diksha Guru maybe it should be a Siksha Guru [Laughs] and that fulfills the ultimate purpose of giving spiritual guidance to a person which is more valuable than giving a Diksha mantra to a person so we talk about Diksha but ultimately if we look at Diksha the scriptural definition of Diksha is to give the mantra which is given at second initiation, Krishna mantra and that’s what Jahnava gave. She gave a Krishna mantra. She didn’t even give teachings.
She just gave a mantra. That was it [Laughs]. You give the mantra to all these people, fine okay you’re initiated [Laughs]. But of course we know that we use the mantra for deity worship, but more important than the mantra and tracing your Diksha line is the teachings and who can give you the most important teachings we should trace our line that way [Laughs] rather than through a Diksha Guru, who gives you a Diksha mantra which is used for deity worship and many people don’t do deity worship anyway. So maybe if we want to be a spiritual leader, our ambition should be to be a good Siksha Guru for everybody rather than be a Diksha Guru and already so many women are doing that anyway [Laughs] so there’s no controversy there no one can actually object to that. Of course in Lord Caitanya’s time it was the opposite they could give Diksha but they didn’t give Siksha [Laughs] because the social system was such that the men didn’t talk to the women actually. So if we have a woman Guru she can’t really teach men because it would be very controversial in society so they would give the mantra and that’s it finished and they wouldn’t give teachings [Laughs]. So now we tolerate the Diksha the Siksha but we say oh maybe Diksha Gurus, women should not be Diksha Gurus but actually if they’re giving Siksha they’re doing more important service than giving Diksha actually but our society has a weird distorted view that Diksha is more important that’s the only problem.
3.) You spoke about the different forms of the Lord [Not audible ] and what about Srimad Bhagavatam, it’s also form of the Lord and how does Srimad Bhagavatam help you to change ?
so the name is considered to be independent of everything else and it’s the ultimate and the prime method of attaining Prema. However, we do have 64 Angas of Bhakti mentioned and of those five are very important, mentioned by Rupa Gosvami, one of which is hearing Srimad Bhagavatam [Laughs]. So, the hearing process is also very important and chanting of course is independent and a person like Ajamila proved that the name of the Lord was so powerful, was independent of atonements, of knowledge, of sin, of qualification or even faith, then it had effect, so the name is independent in that way. However if we want to get Prema, for the name, through the name, we need some knowledge [Laughs] so we can chant purely. Ajamila’s chanting was called namabhasa. It was accidental, no faith. If we have, we chant intentionally but we don’t have knowledge, it’s another type of Abhasa. So many people in India get to chant the name of Krishna, chant so many things and they have all sorts of different ideas in their mind about who is Krishna and what is Bhakti [Laughs] they have different goals also, so that’s an Abhasa, Namabhasa. It can get you some results, maybe material results and ultimately liberation, it does not give you Prema. So to get Prema through the name, we need some knowledge, so that’s why we have scripture, that’s why Srila Prabhupada wrote all these books [Laughs], so we get the knowledge, so that we can get the best out of the name, out of Nama Sankirtan, chanting the holy name. So, through scripture we get Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana. We get our philosophical basis of what’s what, Jiva is not God, different from God, Jiva is servant of God, Maya is illusion, etc. we have to avoid it, so we get distinction between God, Jiva, Maya and Bhakti is a spiritual process, non-different from Supreme Lord, so we get the philosophy straight and based on that we do the process of pure Bhakti, understanding who is that Supreme Lord, not a devata with a material body and we’re trying to get Prema and not material benefits etc., from that Supreme Lord. So and then ultimate goal is Prema. So, all of this, we have to get some understanding of, to perform Bhakti properly, pure Bhakti properly or to chant the holy name properly. So in that sense, Bhagavatam gives us that knowledge by which we can chant the name purely to attain the Prema.
4.) The word Hari refers to Lord Krishna or Lord Vishnu ?
It can refer to, just like Rama can refer to both. Even Krishna can refer to [Laughs] as one of the names of Vishnu as well, because we can extend the meaning. So Hari can mean one who attracts, or one who takes away, one who takes away Maya or one who steals our heart or one who attracts us so it can be Vishnu or Rama or Krishna [Not clear.]
5.) You had the opportunity to translate all of the books of the Gosvami’s, what is your favorite commentary of Gosvami’s [Not audible].
Well, Nectar of devotion of Rupa Gosvami with the commentaries of Jiva and Visvanath are very important, the commentaries on the Bhagavatam of Visvanath are very attractive [Laughs]. Those things are there.
Devotee : All the cantos of Visvanath?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah and particularly 10th Canto. Ok fine, Hare Krishna.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhāgavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhānu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupāda ki jai!!!