Srimad Bhagavatam – 11.10.11 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 30 March 2021
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 10 Verse 11.
ŚB 11.10.11
tasmāj jijñāsayātmānam
ātma-sthaṁ kevalaṁ param
saṅgamya nirased etad
vastu-buddhiṁ yathā-kramam
Synonyms
tasmāt — therefore; jijñāsayā — by the cultivation of knowledge; ātmānam — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; ātma — within oneself; stham — situated; kevalam — pure; param — transcendental and supreme; saṅgamya — approaching by realized knowledge; niraset — one should give up; etat — this; vastu — within material objects; buddhim — concept of reality; yathā-kramam — gradually, step by step.
Translation
Therefore, by the cultivation of knowledge one should approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead situated within oneself. By understanding the Lord’s pure, transcendental existence, one should gradually give up the false vision of the material world as independent reality.
Purport
The word yathā-kramam (“step by step”) means that after first realizing oneself to be different from the gross material body one should then progressively detach oneself from material mental activities. In this verse etad vastu-buddhim means seeing the material world as existing independently rather than correctly seeing all things as emanations of the Absolute Truth.
When one correctly identifies oneself as eternal spiritual form, one achieves the real fruit of knowledge. The Lord is eternally manifest in His eternal form, and the living entity is similarly manifest in his eternal form as the loving servitor of the Lord. When we falsely assume that temporary, illusory material objects are real, knowledge of our eternal spiritual form is covered by ignorance. If, however, one meditates upon the Lord’s supreme presence within everything, one can return to the normal, blissful state of spiritual life. Every human being should seriously endeavor to understand the Absolute Truth, as indicated in this verse by the word jijñāsayā.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, one should give up the material conception by this opposite conception of understanding that one is not the body, one is the soul, and that there is a Supreme Lord with the jīva. So, of course, getting the knowledge is called jñāna, but jijñāsā means wanting knowledge or inquiry about knowledge. So, the first step in getting the knowledge is to want the knowledge. If we don’t want the knowledge, we won’t ask the proper question, then we won’t get the knowledge. So, the first step is, therefore, the desire to get the proper knowledge. But desire to get that knowledge will only arise if we have some idea that we want to change our life.
So, many verses previously described the temporary nature of this world. So, based on that, then a person may start inquiry. Why do we have to suffer in this world? Do we have an alternative to this position of suffering in the world? And then, of course, if we get a little knowledge about ātmā or whatever, then we inquire, so what is this ātmā, how is it different from the body? How are we to realize this ātmā? And then there is further inquiry, besides the ātmā, what exists? And if we understand that this is the Supreme Lord, then we inquire, well, who is this Supreme Lord? What does He look like? What are His qualities? What are His activities? So, it is only with the inquiry that we get certain type of knowledge. And if we don’t have that sense of inquiry, even if the knowledge is there, we won’t accept it or we don’t understand it. So, that is why inquiry is very, very necessary. So, of course, that’s very famous in the first sutra, the first of the Brahma Sutras. So, there it says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. So, now you should inquire about Brahman. And so, then if the person asks, then the reply comes. And the answer in the next sutra is janmādyasya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So, the scripture gives us answers to all of these questions. But, if we are not inquisitive about it, even if the scripture is there, we won’t take advantage of the scripture. Therefore, in the, for instance, in Bhagavad Gita there it says, to get knowledge, one should have pariprasna. So, prasna means a question. And pari means thorough questioning. So, we approach a Guru or one who knows the truth with questions. And of course, the question should be about what he has knowledge of. So, that is a qualification of a good disciple. I
In the Nectar of Devotion there, in describing the angas of bhakti, in the first preliminary angas, the first ten, there it is mentioned that there should be sad-dharma-pṛcchā [Cc. Madhya 22.115]. So pṛcchā means same as prasna, questioning. So, one questions about sad-dharma. In other words, one questions about bhakti. So, we, and of course, the first and second angas were to approach a Guru and the second was to accept diksha and siksha. So, if we accept diksha and siksha, then we should come with questions about bhakti. We should not come with other types of questions. So, therefore, we see that the idea of being inquisitive about spiritual knowledge and spiritual life is very essential for progress. We don’t want to know anything spiritual. It’s very difficult to practice spiritual life.
So, ultimately, the question of course, should be about atma and Supreme Lord. So, we have to know the nature of atma and the nature of the Lord. And in many places, the preliminary knowledge is given. How is atma different from body? How is the Supreme Lord different from matter and how is the Supreme Lord different from the atma? So, those are the basic questions and the scriptures give us the answers to that. So, that’s the foundational knowledge. Once we have that knowledge, then the questions come, what do I do? And I’m an atma, what is my goal?
So, the scriptures also give us recommendations on action, which we should do. And of course, we have various processes like karma yoga, jnana yoga and astanga yoga. But then the ultimate process is bhakti yoga. And what do we achieve by this action? So, that is prema. So, in this way, the scriptures give us answers to all of our questions. But if we are not questioning and looking for answers, we don’t get answers. So, therefore, the person who is aspiring for spiritual knowledge should have inquisitiveness about this and then he will get the answers in the scriptures. Of course, the argument is given, what is the use of all of this knowledge? Atleast, those who are devotees may ask this question. They say that ultimately, we depend on our affection for the Lord, our bhava, so why do we need all this knowledge? But, in order to cultivate that relationship with the Lord, that bhava, we need some knowledge. But, in order to cultivate that relationship with the Lord, that bhava, we need some knowledge. If we don’t have that basic knowledge, it is very difficult to attain that goal.
So, if you want to be a doctor, that’s your goal, then there is a procedure for doing it. You cannot just pretend, I am a doctor now, and dress up like a doctor and start doing operations. Of course, you could argue, well, by acting like a doctor, eventually I will become a doctor [Laughs]. But, we have never seen that [Laughs]. So, you cannot think that, I have love of Krishna, and just get it like that. So, there is a certain procedure by which you can attain that love. So, to learn that procedure, you need knowledge.
So, that knowledge, of course, is different from the jnana that we condemn. The condemned knowledge is the knowledge that leads to impersonal realization. And that knowledge largely uses logic. So, that type of knowledge is rejected. But the knowledge in the scripture by which we attain the Lord, that is always accepted. So, if we don’t have inquisitiveness about that, then we will never learn that knowledge. So that is ultimately the purpose of the scripture to give us that knowledge. And it is classed in three categories. So, this is, of course, stated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu in Caitanya Caritamrta. And it is discussed by Acharyas like Jiva Goswami.
So, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says actually only three topics of scriptures, sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. So, these are the things we have to know in scripture. And, of course, we have absolute sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana. And then we have relative versions of that. So, the final conclusion, of course, is pure bhakti and prema. But, then we have these other things like karma, jnana and yoga. So, certainly, they are methods with a certain goal. But, they are only steps towards the final goal of prema. So, the devotees are interested in the final sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. And that is what is presented in the Srimad Bhagavatam. So, if we have a sense of inquiry or jijñāsā, then we should go to the Bhagavatam. So, Bhagavatam, though it’s giving the ultimate answers, still, it will discuss the relative things like karma yoga, jnana yoga and astanga yoga also. But it also makes clear, the absolute sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana.
So, fortunately, the knowledge is not that complex. The sambandha is very clear. We have jivas who are different from Supreme Lord. But, they share some qualities of the Supreme Lord. And we have material world, maya, which covers the jiva. So, the goal is to get rid of that covering and establish a relationship with the Lord. So, that relationship is called prema. And the method the jiva uses to get there is bhakti yoga. So, that is what we call sambandha jnana. And abhidheya, the bhakti, and prayojana, the prema. Once we get the knowledge, then we can begin the practice. And by practicing, then, we attain the goal. So, therefore, the jijñāsā or the inquiry, the sense of inquiry is very important. And because of that, we get the knowledge. With the knowledge, we begin practice. With the practice, we can attain the goal. So, when we get this knowledge, then we can reject the previous knowledge or previous concept of materialism. So, part of it, of course, by the knowledge itself. But then, partly through the practice. For instance, we can go to second chapter of Bhagavad Gita, there Krishna says, you are the soul, not the body. So, if we accept it, that’s one step in knowledge.
But, how do we realize that? So, therefore, we have a process, and then gradually, we have a realization. Yes, I am separate from the body. So, we get knowledge, and through the practice of bhakti, we get realization of that knowledge. So, in this way, knowledge is very important, even for bhakti. But, it is a certain type of knowledge. Even this knowledge can also become material. So, if we do not take that knowledge with the proper mood, then it will have no value for us. So, therefore, the devotees take this knowledge, but at the same time, they take it with devotion. If they don’t have devotion and they take the knowledge, they will misunderstand it. So, therefore, the acquisition of knowledge in devotional service requires the devotion in the devotee. And, in this way, we get proper results from that knowledge. And, thus, at the beginning of Bhagavatam, it is said that this work is for, not for people who are full of envy and materialistic motives. It is for people who are free of such motives. It is meant for those who have a taste for the Lord.
So, an example is also given in the Bhagavatam. The Bhagavatam is considered to be like Mohini Avatar. And of course, Mohini had the particular job of bewildering the demons. And the demons became very attracted to her. And they gave up the nectar. So, Mohini asked for the nectar. They gave her the nectar. And she gave the nectar to the devatas. So, in this way, the meaning is that, those who are materialistic, those who are demons, those who are envious, those who are offenders, etc, they cannot get the real meaning of the Bhagavatam. But, the real nectar, the taste of the Bhagavatam, the meaning of the Bhagavatam is given to those who have qualification as devotees. So, they are the real jijñāsis, the one who are interested in getting knowledge. And they are the ones who get that knowledge. Hare Krishna.
Q & A :
1.) Devotees may have knowledge, but find it difficult to put it into practice in their life.
So, that’s why I said that knowledge itself, if we have a wrong approach, then it’s not too useful for us. So, we have some scholars who will approach Bhagavatam from a literary point of view and analyze it in terms of literary ornaments, etc, etc. So, they don’t get much value out of Bhagavatam really. So, we can get knowledge from the scriptures, but we have to have that devotion. When the devotion is there, then the knowledge can be useful to us.
2.) Here it is mentioned that yathā-kramam, step by step one should gradually give up material conception. Step by step means what? One has to go from karma yoga then jnana yoga, astanga because now in kali yuga, we directly go for the bhakti yoga.
Well, when Manu and his descendants have the varnashrama system intact, then, that is one option you can take. In our particular kali yuga, when everything is disturbed and the descendant of Manu has also disappeared, then all of the gradual system has become difficult to practice. So, instead, we are encouraged to take to devotional service directly. And in devotional service, again, the effect is also gradual. The more one advances, the more one becomes detached from the material world.
3.) Is it possible to know in which stage a devotee is? In karmi life, they have examinations, tests, to find the student’s level of progress. In devotional service, how a devotee can know in which stage he is?
Of course, even in the material world, these tests have doubtful value. The person with the highest marks is not necessarily the best person [Laughs]. So, in terms of bhakti, we cannot quantify by the similar means. We cannot use a material system to gauge bhakti. But, we can judge the progress by the results. So, the results are two. One is attraction to Krishna. The other is detachment from everything material. So, if one is very detached from everything but is not attached to Krishna, then that’s not progress [Laughs]. And if one is attached to Krishna but is also very attached to everything material, that’s also not progress [Laughs]. So, therefore, the symptoms should match the progress.
4.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj you mentioned that, if we don’t understand properly the spiritual knowledge given, then it becomes material. How to understand?
Well, we can pass an exam like bhakti sastri, but that does not make us a better devotee, especially [Laughs]. It may be better, but it may not be also. We just memorize everything and then spout it out and forget it. So, in that sense, material knowledge is not the method [Laughs]. Of course, in bhakti sastri, they are also trying to gauge your spiritual interest. So, they don’t only consider, get your answers on the thing, they see your conduct as well. So, there is a balance there. However, we have what is called the, they have schools for Bhagavatam. So, you can become a lecturer on the Bhagavatam and do the Bhagavata saptahas. So, most of them are not even Vaishnavas. So, why do they want to do this? Make a living [Laughs]. So, they give lectures on Bhagavatam so they can support their family [Laughs]. Many may be impersonalists. So, therefore, all of that knowledge is useless [Laughs].
Devotee: Sometimes, there’s a joke Maharaj like, bhakti sastri. After finishing bhakti sastri, if he doesn’t become a bhakta, he becomes a pandit, sastri.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. So, the goal of that is not to show off your learning, but rather to use that knowledge so you can advance in devotion. That’s the whole idea.
5.) In some purport, Prabhupada says, we should be very eager to go back home, back to Godhead. In some other purport, he says, a devotee should not even be interested to go back to Godhead. How to understand these contradictions?
Probably, we can state it more accurately by saying the devotee should be eager to serve Krishna. And then he does not demand where to serve Krishna. So, whether he’s in heaven or hell or Vaikuntha or wherever, if he can serve the Lord, then that is satisfying to him.
6.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Can a neophyte devotee also get taste for Srimad Bhagavatam, even though he has so many vices in his heart?
It will depend on the amount of vices. In the beginning of Bhagavatam, 10th canto, it also says that, those who are killers of animals, for instance, then, very difficult for them to be attracted to the topics of the Lord. So, obviously, to begin bhakti, we should get knowledge from Bhagavatam. At the same time, we cannot have too many material attachments.
7.) Dandavat Pranam Maharaj, you mentioned about Mohini Avatar compared to Bhagavatam. Can we understand that by reading Bhagavatam, one can get yoga siddhis, apart from bhakti?
From bhakti, you can get everything. You can get liberation, you can get swarga loka, you can get yoga siddhis, you can get Vaikuntha, you can get Goloka, whatever. Anything. There is a whole section in the 11th canto, also in the 3rd canto, dedicated to yoga [Laughs]. And in the 11th canto, it mentions 21 siddhis you can get from yoga.
8.) Referencing Bhagavad Gita 7th chapter, 16th verse, it mentions that, can we understand jijñāsu is better than ārto arthārthī jñānī?
Well, better than the jijñāsu is the jñānī. He gets the knowledge, he has the knowledge already [Laughs].
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!