Srimad Bhagavatam 6.16.34 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Perth, Australia | 15 February 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 6 Chapter 16 Verse 34.
ŚB 6.16.34
citraketur uvāca
ajita jitaḥ sama-matibhiḥ
sādhubhir bhavān jitātmabhir bhavatā
vijitās te ’pi ca bhajatām
akāmātmanāṁ ya ātmado ’ti-karuṇaḥ
Synonyms
citraketuḥ uvāca — King Citraketu said; ajita — O my unconquerable Lord; jitaḥ — conquered; sama-matibhiḥ — by persons who have conquered the mind; sādhubhiḥ — the devotees; bhavān — Your Lordship; jita-ātmabhiḥ — who have completely controlled the senses; bhavatā — by You; vijitāḥ — conquered; te — they; api — also; ca — and; bhajatām — to those who always engage in Your service; akāma-ātmanām — with no motives for material profit; yaḥ — who; ātma-daḥ — giving Yourself; ati-karuṇaḥ — extremely merciful.
Translation
Citraketu said: O unconquerable Lord, although You cannot be conquered by anyone, You are certainly conquered by devotees who have control of the mind and senses. They can keep You under their control because You are causelessly merciful to devotees who desire no material profit from You. Indeed, You give Yourself to them, and because of this You also have full control over Your devotees.
Purport
The Lord and the devotees both conquer. The Lord is conquered by the devotees, and the devotees are conquered by the Lord. Because of being conquered by one another, they both derive transcendental bliss from their relationship. The highest perfection of this mutual conquering is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. The gopīs conquered Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa conquered the gopīs. Thus whenever Kṛṣṇa played His flute, He conquered the minds of the gopīs, and without seeing the gopīs Kṛṣṇa could not be happy. Other transcendentalists, such as jñānīs and yogīs, cannot conquer the Supreme Personality of Godhead; only pure devotees can conquer Him.
Pure devotees are described as sama-mati, which means that they never deviate from devotional service under any circumstances. It is not that devotees worship the Supreme Lord only when happy; they worship Him even when in distress. Happiness and distress do not hamper the process of devotional service. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says that devotional service is ahaituky apratihatā, unmotivated and uninterrupted. When a devotee offers devotional service to the Lord without any motive anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam, his service cannot be hampered by any material condition (apratihatā). Thus a devotee who offers service in all conditions of life can conquer the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
A special distinction between devotees and the other transcendentalists, namely the jñānīs and yogīs, is that jñānīs and yogīs artificially try to become one with the Supreme, whereas devotees never aspire for such an impossible accomplishment. Devotees know that their position is to be eternally servants of the Supreme Lord and never to be one with Him. Therefore they are called sama-mati or jitātmā. They detest oneness with the Supreme. They have no lusty desires for oneness; instead, their desire is to be freed from all material hankering. Therefore they are called niṣkāma, desireless. A living entity cannot exist without desires, but desires that can never be fulfilled are called kāma, lusty desires. Kāmais tais tair hṛta jñānāḥ: because of lusty desires, non-devotees are deprived of their intelligence. Thus they are unable to conquer the Supreme Lord, whereas devotees, being freed from such unreasonable desires, can conquer the Lord. Such devotees are also conquered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because they are pure, being free from all material desires, they fully surrender to the Supreme Lord, and therefore the Lord conquers them. Such devotees never aspire for liberation. They simply desire to serve the lotus feet of the Lord. Because they serve the Lord without desires for remuneration, they can conquer the mercy of the Lord. The Lord is by nature very merciful, and when He sees that His servant is working without desires for material profit, naturally He is conquered.
Devotees are always engaged in service.
sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor
vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane
All the activities of their senses are engaged in the service of the Lord. Because of such devotion, the Lord gives Himself to His devotees as if they could use Him for any purpose they might desire. Of course, devotees have no purpose other than to serve. When a devotee fully surrenders and has no aspiration for material profit, the Lord certainly gives him all opportunities for service. This is the position of the Lord when conquered by His devotees.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, this is a very nice verse which explains the essential nature of the Supreme Lord. And this is a verse by, statement by Chitraketu, praising the Supreme Lord when the Lord appears before him. So, He is addressed as Ajita, which is quite a famous description of the Supreme Lord. There is one famous prayer in the personified prayers, vedas prayers. It goes like this, Ajita, the all-unconquerable one. And there is a whole series of stotras called the Jitanta stotras, talking about the unconquered Lord who is conquered by His devotees. So, He is Ajita. Lord is Ajita in the sense that, He is superior to all others. That’s the very definition of the Supreme Lord. Supreme Lord means no one is higher. When we talk about Parameshwara or Bhagavan, there is no superior person. He does not depend on anyone else. That’s the definition of the Lord. So, in that sense, Ajita. So, no one can conquer Him means, there is no one more powerful than Him. It does not mean that He goes out and kills everybody [Laughs]. Conquering means you defeat people. Of course, He can do that, as He can defeat demons, etc. But that’s not His constant activity. But by nature, He is superior to everybody else. And He doesn’t even have to fight to do that. So, therefore, He is Ajita. But, at the same time, He is Jita. Ajita means not conquered. Jita means conquered. So, as we have, Syama means black and Asyama means not black. So, we have Jita and Ajita. Conquered and unconquered. So, He is simultaneously unconquered and conquered. Of course, there can be literal conquests. Someone can conquer the Lord. That, of course, is not very common, among most forms of the Lord. But it happens with Krishna. In the sense of actual conquests and fighting, etc. That will only take place, of course, in pastimes where Krishna gets defeated by the Cowherd boys when they play games [Laughs]. But, usually, we won’t see Krishna getting defeated in battle. Of course, He does run away from battle once in a while. He went away from Jarasandha, etc. But, the normal case is not. And other forms, no, they’re never defeated. So, Rama is never defeated, Vishnu is never defeated etc. But, they are all defeated in the sense that, they come under control of their devotees. In that sense, they are Jita, defeated. In which they act as if they are not Supreme.
So, Krishna, of course, He gets tied up by mother Yasoda. He gets conquered. That’s also literal, in one sense. He literally gets conquered. But, also in the sense that Krishna is subservient to the desire of the devotees. Such display is also there with all the forms of the Lord. Vishnu forms also are conquered by their devotees. They agree to that. We see in the case of Gajendra. Gajendra was an elephant and he prayed to the Lord to get free from the crocodile. And the Lord is in Vaikuntha with Lakshmi. And He doesn’t have to do anything. He’s in the spiritual world. But, when He hears the plea of Gajendra, He leaves Lakshmi. And He comes into the material world and He saves Gajendra. In the sense, He is conquered. And Gajendra’s not even practicing pure Bhakti [Laughs]. He’s got mixed Bhakti. So, the Lord is conquered by the devotee in that sense. Controlled by the devotee. And we will see many examples of that in the Bhagavatam. Many, many pastimes.
However, the highest form of being conquered, we will see with Krishna. Krishna is the highest form. And He’s even superior to all the other Vishnu forms and avatar forms like Rama or Narasimha. So, He’s higher in that sense. He’s really Ajita. And He can conquer the others. Other forms of the Lord also. He is higher. That’s why He is called Swayam Bhagavan. But He is also more likely to be conquered by His devotees than all the other forms of the Lord. And thus, in His pastimes, we will see that He gets conquered by Mother Yasoda and gets tied up. In which we will not see. We will not see that in other forms of the Lord. They do not get tied up by their devotees [Laughs]. But, Mother Yasoda is able to tie up Krishna. So, in this sense, Krishna is really Jita. So, this happens with Krishna. Krishna is defeated by the Cowherd boys when they wrestle, when they play games. In the other forms of the Lord, no, it doesn’t happen. And, of course, we have Krishna being conquered by the Gopis. And we see the famous picture where Krishna is serving lotus feet of Radharani. In that sense, He is conquered by Radha.
So, the very famous statements are there. In the 10th canto, in the Rasalila, just before the Rasalila, well, then the Rasalila, Krishna disappears. And the Gopis search for Him. And He has gone off with Radha. And then He leaves Radha. And then the Gopis find Radha. And they all search for Krishna. And then they give up. They are completely hopeless. And they go to the bank of the Yamuna. And they do kirtan. And then Krishna appears. Because He cannot avoid the Gopis and the kirtan. So, in this sense, He is conquered by them. But then after that, the Gopis are a little bit angry. And they are wondering, why He has to do this? Why He tortures us like this? Why He disappears? Why He teases us so much like this [Laughs]? So, then they ask some questions. You know, who is a real person? Who is a cheater etc? And then Krishna finally, what He answers is, actually, I am not a cheater at all. I am very dedicated to you. And actually, you are superior to me. And I am indebted to you. Whatever you sacrifice for me, I can never sacrifice for you. You, the Gopis, you give up your parents and even your husbands and your children to come to me. I don’t do that. I don’t give up mother Yasoda and Nanda. I don’t, of course, I don’t have a wife. So, I don’t give up a wife also. You give up so much. I don’t give up that much. So, this shows that your devotion to me is more than my devotion to you. And I can never equal that. I can never repay you and respond with an equal sacrifice that you sacrifice for me. So, your love is much greater than my love. And I can never repay you for that. So, this is Krishna’s statement, which means He is conquered completely by the Gopis’ love. So, this shows the extraordinary extent of the love of the devotees of Krishna and how Krishna is unable to repay them for that sacrifice that they make. So, in that sense, He is so much Jita or conquered by the devotees. More than any other form of the Lord.
So, these are two contrasting qualities of the Lord. Being unconquered and being conquered. It sounds contradictory. You are one or the other. You can’t be both [Laughs]. He is eternally unconquered, but He is eternally conquered. So, this is possible in the Supreme Lord, because opposite qualities are not a contradiction in the Supreme Lord. This is His acintya shakti. So, this is the nature of the Supreme Lord. This does not create any problem for the Lord. It’s not also a criticism of the Lord. Of course, under normal circumstances, the Supreme Lord should be unconquered. If He is conquered, it looks like a fault [Laughs]. If He is supreme, He should not be conquered by anybody. However, the nature of the Lord is to be most merciful to the devotees. And because of that, He becomes conquered. And thus, to be conquered is not a fault at all. In fact, it becomes a great quality. If the Lord is Supreme and the devotees serve Him and give everything to the Lord, and the Lord sits there and accepts everything, but not too much moves, not too much to overcome, then we would say the Lord is cold-hearted. He is receiving all the praise and worship and sacrifice. He is simply sitting there smiling and doing nothing [Laughs]. Then we would criticize Him. So, the Lord must respond to that devotion with equal or more devotion. And that’s a good quality. So, therefore, when we say the Lord is conquered, it is not a bad quality at all. It is a quality that He shows in relation to the devotees. It’s a good quality.
In the Nectar of Devotion, which Srila Prabhupada quotes here, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnya etc, pure devotional service, the devotees who practice pure bhakti, of course, are more likely to attract the Lord, than those who are practicing mixed bhakti. But even the mixed bhaktas attract the Lord, as we see in the case of Gajendra. Or we see in the case of Dhruva. He had definitely had material desires to worship when he was worshipping the Lord. That was not pure bhakti. But the Lord responded to him. He appeared before him. He gave him a kingdom greater than his father or grandfather’s kingdom etc. So, the Lord responds. But the Lord, of course, responds more to one who practices pure bhakti. So, in proportion to the type of bhakti, the Lord responds. And if the person has no bhakti, then the Lord does not respond at all. Well, we can say minimum. And thus, the karmis, the jnanis, and yogis do not get the same response from the Lord. They are not conquered [Not clear] the devotees. But those who are jnanis, karmis, and yogis, the Lord is not so moved by any of that. If He is, it is because they also practice a little Bhakti [Laughs], and then the Lord is responsive a little bit. But still, it is little. So, according to the amount of surrender, then the Lord also surrenders to the devotee. And if you are a Jnani, or a karmi, or a yogi, very little Bhakti. Therefore, the Lord’s response is minimal. It is better, of course, that no bhakti, no karma, no jnana, and no yoga. If you do not follow anything, you do not follow any vedic path at all. Then, of course, the response is even less [Laughs]. But nevertheless, it is very little.
So, at the beginning of the Nectar of Devotion, after defining pure bhakti, Rupa Goswami then lists six unique qualities of bhakti. And among those qualities is that, it is very rare. And there is an explanation that bhakti is very rare. Of course, bhakti itself is rare. But if we get to the stage of bhava, where one sees the Lord, that is even rarer. Of course, it is not rare for the devotees. Because if you do practice pure bhakti, then you get to bhava, then you get to prema. It is not so rare [Laughs]. But we have to follow process. However, it is rare or impossible to come to bhava and see the Lord directly for karmis, jnanis, and yogis. In other words, the Lord does not give Himself, does not show Himself, to people who do not practice bhakti. So, in that sense, He is rare, unapproachable. So, in other words, He is Ajita, He remains unconquered [Laughs]. If you have devotion, then the Lord becomes conquered. If you have no devotion, it does not happen. So, karmis, jnanis, and yogis do not get to see the Lord at all. The Lord does not respond because they have no devotion. So, the Lord is conquered when there is true devotion up to a certain level.
As I said, even with mixed bhakti, the Lord may respond, as we see in the case of Gajendra and Dhruva. But the Lord is more surrendered to the devotee, responds and becomes more conquered if we practice pure bhakti. And if we do pure bhakti in sadhana the Lord is merciful. If we practice pure bhakti in bhava, the Lord is more merciful and thus the Lord reveals Himself to the devotee at that stage, and He begins to come under the control of the devotee. If the devotee attains the stage of prema, then the Lord is controlled by the devotee. So, this is the, of those six qualities of bhakti that are mentioned in the Nectar of Devotion. The sixth quality is, Krishna akarshini, that the Supreme Lord becomes completely attracted to that devotee in prema. He becomes controlled by the devotees. And of course, all forms of the Godhead, even the Supreme form, Krishna becomes attracted to His devotees and becomes controlled by His devotees. That’s Krishna akarshini. That, of course, is in prema. In prema, the highest form of bhakti, when the devotee is most surrendered, the Lord is most surrendered. He becomes controlled by the devotee. And we see the cases of Mother Yasoda and Krishna, the Gopis and Krishna etc. So, it only happens, the Lord only displays this quality of being controlled when they are devotees. He is controlled by the devotees. He is not controlled by the non-devotees.
So, these are unique qualities of bhakti. So, to conquer the Lord, that is a unique quality of bhakti. And the karmis, jnanis and yogis cannot conquer the Lord. He does not come under their control at all. He does not even reveal Himself to them. At most, He will give them a little result. So, if they practice karma yoga, He will give them a little material result, if they also worship the Lord a little bit. If they don’t worship at all, He doesn’t give any results. The jnanis and yogis will get liberation from the Lord, which the devotees think of as nothing insignificant. But only under the condition that they also do not offend the Lord and they give respect to the Lord a little bit. So, then they get liberation. To that extent, the Lord is willing to respond to them. But the Lord does not reveal Himself to them. He does not come under their control at all. But He comes under the control of the devotees. This is a unique feature of bhakti. He is able to control the Lord. And it is a unique feature of the Supreme Lord that though He is supreme, He also becomes conquered. And He doesn’t appear to be Supreme at all. He is controlled by His devotees. So, that is a quality of the Lord that the devotees celebrate. The Lord is in the highest position, but He sacrifices that position out of devotion to His devotees. So, that’s a very, very great quality of the Supreme Lord.
So, in this verse, it talks about these devotees and it describes these devotees. They are sama-mati, that is, they’ve conquered their minds, jita-ātmabhiḥ, they’ve conquered their senses. In the sense that their minds and senses are no longer attracted to material enjoyment. It does not mean that they stop their mind and their senses. This is the common description of jnanis and yogis. They stop their senses and mind. But the definition of bhakti is the opposite. Sadhana bhakti is defined in Nectar of Devotion as engagement of the mind and senses in serving the Lord [Laughs]. So, they don’t stop the senses. They just redirect the senses away from material enjoyment and concentrate on serving the Lord with no desire for material enjoyment. That’s the definition of pure bhakti. So, therefore, the devotees do not give up their use of their senses and their mind. Rather, they engage them in the proper way, that is, in serving the Supreme Lord. So, in this way, by engagement of their senses, they advance in devotion. They give up all material attachments. And they develop spiritual body and spiritual senses. They serve the Lord eternally in the spiritual world.
Jnanis and yogis give up their mind and senses. They control them completely and don’t use them. What happens? They get liberation. And they have no senses, no mind, because there’s nothing to serve. They don’t want to serve anybody [Laughs]. So, they’re in Brahman with no senses, no body, nothing. They just sit there. One does bhakti using senses and mind. And then one develops spiritual senses, spiritual body, spiritual mind, to serve the Lord eternally. So, very, very different results for jnanis, yogis and devotees. This, of course, is also how does the devotee attain a spiritual body with spiritual senses and mind. It’s all by the mercy of the Lord. The devotee wants to serve. So, the Lord arranges for the devotee to serve eternally. You cannot do that. You cannot serve eternally with your material body and senses. Because automatically you have to keep giving up your bodies and senses in the material world. So, the Lord supplies spiritual body, spiritual senses, spiritual mind, which are eternal. And the devotee can serve the Lord in that way eternally. So, the Lord fulfills the desires of the devotees to serve in specific ways in the spiritual world. It’s an eternal spiritual service.
Prabhupada mentions it in the purport. Yes, the devotees attain this and they never aspire for that liberation where you don’t have body and senses at all. You don’t serve the Lord. They never aspire for that. They consider that liberation to be useless. That’s another characteristic of bhakti. One of the six characteristics. They regard liberation as very insignificant and useless. Because you cannot serve the Lord eternally in that form. And also you cannot get the bliss that one gets from serving the Lord eternally in the spiritual body. And that’s another quality of pure bhakti. One of the six qualities that is intense bliss. The bliss of Brahman is like a drop of water in the desert [Laughs]. The bliss of prema in serving the Lord eternally is like an ocean. So, very, very different. And so, bhakti gives immeasurable bliss to the devotees and that is eternal. So, it’s quite distinct from liberation or happiness we get in material world. So, all of this is how the Lord rewards the devotee. He gives them something. Why because He is attracted to their devotion. The Lord gives so many things to the devotee. In this way, He nourishes and supports the devotee always. In this way He is conquered by the devotees. So, this is one of the essential qualities of the Supreme Lord. And it’s not a fault. It’s a great praiseworthy quality. And it’s inescapably linked to His extraordinary mercy.
Why does the Lord do this? Because He is extraordinarily mercy. But He only shows that mercy to the devotees. To the others, He is rather neutral [Laughs]. So, in this way, Chitraketu is glorifying the devotees of the Supreme Lord. And because they are able to control the Supreme Lord. And then he says, just as the devotees control the Lord, the Lord controls the devotees [Laughs]. Because of the Lord’s wonderful qualities including His mercy, they are naturally completely under the Lord’s control and they do anything for Him. They are completely surrendered. So, there is mutual being conquered, so to speak [Laughs]. So, the devotee is never in a position of relishing controlling the Lord at all. He is always thinking of himself as the servant of the Supreme Lord. And the more the Lord does for the devotee, the more the devotee surrenders.
So, though, the Gopis are able to conquer Krishna, and Krishna says, yes, I am defeated by you, I can never repay you, etc. When the Gopis hear this, then of course, they feel very ashamed [Laughs]. They say, we don’t want to conquer the Lord [Laughs]. We simply want to serve the Lord. So, they become more surrendered to the Lord when they hear this. They become more dedicated to serving Him. They become more conquered by the Lord. Even though the Lord says, I am conquered by you. So, this is the way in which prema operates in the spiritual world. There is mutual surrender. And out of this, there is so much experience of bliss. Okay, any question there?
Q & A :
1.) Maharaj, Dhruva Maharaj would he be under ārto arthārthī [Bg. 7.16]. Like there is specific four kinds of devotees.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah, yeah, yeah. Desiring material benefits.
Devotee : So, how would he be different to any other ārto arthārthī ? Because he got a spiritual master and he is fixed in that devotion. Even though he wants something, as compared to any other person who is not so much fixed that’s why he got the darshan of the Lord?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So, how is he different?
Devotee: Yes.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well [Laughs], in one sense, not different. He had explicit material desires, which generally is not good. He was fortunate, of course, to have Guru. First Guru was his mother. And she told him, go to the forest and you worship Vishnu [Laughs]. So, that was a good instruction. Second is, he got the mercy of Narada Muni, who gave him Diksha and Mantra. So, he was able to worship properly according to Pantaratric principles. So, that itself, of course, is mercy. He got the mercy of devotees [Laughs]. And therefore, he was able to practice even if it’s mixed. Of course, Narada Muni also is not an ordinary devotee [Laughs]. So, we get the mercy of Narada Muni, extraordinary things happen. So, we get things like kripa siddhi. Without doing much practice, you can attain high results. So, Mrgari, the hunter got the extraordinary mercy of Narada Muni and what happened? He was in the lowest position, most unqualified. No previous bhakti, nothing and completely sinful. Not even practicing karma yoga. But what happened is, in three months, he got bhava, by the mercy of Narada Muni and chanting the holy name [Laughs]. Narada Muni’s mercy is very, very special. So, we can say that’s one factor that made him, after six months or so, get darshan of the Supreme Lord.
Devotee: So, with that Maharaj, these are special cases of kripa siddhi may be, not in general we can’t apply this.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, very quick results in short period of time, we can achieve it to the, either to the devotee, like a great devotee like Narada Muni. Or in other cases, Krishna Himself can give that kripa siddhi also. He kills demons and [Laughs] they end up in the spiritual world. So, it’s mercy of the Lord.
Devotee: And the second thing is, Lord has appeared in front of him. He got completely purified of all his desires, material desires.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. Yeah. Normally, the Lord doesn’t appear if you’re impure but He appeared to him. That was Lord’s mercy [Laughs].
Devotee: That’s true. Same in the case of Gajendra you mentioned as well. He was asking for help. But obviously, he is from previous life even maybe Maharaj. Is it coming? Is it a continuation? It’s not something, I mean, Mrgari, that’s like, an extraordinary case where nothing, no previous, he’s not even born in a great family life. You said absolutely zero. To get that kind of mercy is extraordinary.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Of course, even if we have a background of devotion or what not, we find that Gajendra had some background. He was a king or whatever and he committed an offense, he became an elephant. And then he remembered his previous devotion or whatever. So, he had some background. But even then, generally, if we’re doing sadhana, we would have to get from impure bhakti sadhana to pure bhakti sadhana by mercy of devotees, then practice that. Then we get to bhava. Then we get to see the Lord. In this case [Laughs], the Lord just came. Came before he got the pure bhakti and He gave mercy. That’s an example of mercy of the Supreme Lord Himself.
Devotee: We just pray to Lord Nityananda for that mercy.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs]. Well, we can always hope for kripa siddhi. But generally, it’s rare. And we just have to do the sadhana in order to get to bhava and then to get to prema.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. There you mentioned about God being neutral to karmis, jnanis, yogis. Is that like, can I associate that with santa rasa Maharaj?
Neutral? They don’t even get that far [Laughs]. No rasa. If they do mixed bhakti, karma misra bhakti or jnana misra bhakti, yoga misra bhakti. They can come up to santa rati eventually, very slow process. Eventually they can get up to santa rati.
Devotee: So, can you give an example for santa rasa.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Santa rasa, example given is the Kumaras. They’re in santa rasa. Of course, they’re also Shaktyavesa avatars [Laughs]. But they are jivas with eternal bodies and they have special powers, etc. But they’re in santa rasa. In which they actually get full rasa. And rati is similar but not complete. They don’t get all the ecstatic symptoms and all that.
Devotee: Maharaj, based on that, in santa rasa, there are devotees in santa rasa in Vaikuntha and there are devotees in santa rasa in Goloka as well. And the difference, obviously is that the mood in Goloka is different. But in santa rasa, how, is it? It applies to that as well? Like, because they have, even the animals or trees who are in santa rasa in Vaikuntha, they have still awe and reverence only in Vaikuntha? And the animals and trees in Goloka aren’t more affectionate in santa rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, santa rasa, of course, is a rasa. So, I mean, it has components like sthayi bhava which is very peaceful. And then they have anubhavas, vibhava, vyabhichari bhava, sattvika bhavas. Those things will manifest. So, for instance, the Kumaras manifest ecstatic symptoms whatever like that. They shiver and hair standing on end [Laughs]. May be cry or whatever like that when they see the Lord. So, they have some little bit of intensity there. But it’s also not too intense. So, it’s just the least intense of the rasas. So, we have in Vaikuntha, then we have some devotees of that nature. Others, of course, are in dasya rasa. And it’s all with reverence for Vishnu. With Krishna, then we have persons in santa rasa also. Rupa Goswami does not describe trees and animals as being actually in santa rasa. He does describe very old people and very young people like little babies as being in santa rasa with Krishna. So, why? Because their relationship is not too well defined. In other words, a small baby cannot have vatsalya rasa for Krishna, cannot have madhurya rasa for Krishna [Laughs], cannot have sakhya rasa. A small baby is kind of a general attraction to Krishna. And the same with elders again. Too old to have vatsalya rasa or any other rasa. So, they have a general type of attraction to Krishna. So, they experience the bhavas and sattvika bhavas etc. But kind of neutral in one sense. There’s no particular taste manifest. So, that’s how the santa operates in Gokula, in spiritual world.
Devotee: So, the animal and tree will fall under, so far we understood that santa rasa because they are not.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It’s not active. Yeah, it’s something like that. But when Rupa Goswami describes rasa, generally the rasa has to take place between like individuals, humans. Because then at least you can speak and communicate to a higher level. If it’s an animal or plant, you’re very restricted. So, therefore, it doesn’t get to the stage where you can joke and do things like this [Laughs].
Devotee: For example Maharaj, if Krishna goes under a tree and it’s a mango tree.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, so it can respond and give the fruit and all that.
Devotee: [Not clear] will come back.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes. But then for real rasa, and particularly we see in madhurya rasa, a lot of the rasa takes place by the conversations between Krishna and the Gopis. For instance, we have extended conversation where Krishna plays His flute, the Gopis come and then they start asking Him, please help us. And He says, oh, you go home and do this. And He’s joking with them and establishes subtle rasa there. Later on, again, He’s speaking to them. And they’re wondering, what’s He trying to tell us like this [Laughs]? Then he uses play on words. They use play on words like this. You cannot get that with animals or plants. There’s no exchange to get that higher type of rasa.
Devotee: Cows [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Same, similar. Yeah they can moo [Laughs]. Moo, moo, moo [Laughs]. They can’t really relate in the same way. So, in other words, it’s very unequal, that type of, those type of rasas or those relationships, So, therefore, it’s not really classed as rasa. That’s obviously we can say, Rupa Goswami’s interpretation of it.
Devotee: What would they fall under and how, in which category are they there in the spiritual world?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It’s not really mentioned because the rasa is only between people, basically, human relationships in general.
3.) Maharaj, we saw that the Kumaras became devotees. So, before they became devotees, they were in santa rasa, no? And after this they smell this Tulasi.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, even santa rasa is devotee.
Devotee: Oh.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. So, they are devotees and they are also eternal. So, they’re actually eternal bodies etc. So, that’s how they practice sadhana and become. Narada Muni also is eternal. They’re both Shaktyavesa avatars. So, they’re jivas eternally with that rasa.
Devotee: In Nimbarka sampradaya, does they follow santa rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No. They follow madhurya rasa [Laughs]. Yeah. So, I think somehow there’s a story in which the Kumaras, even though they’re in santa rasa, somehow they get contact with Krishna and then they develop some sort of teaching with Krishna and whatever. So, higher rasas also. But I don’t know how it operates there [Laughs]. But they worship Radha Krishna actually. There’s a Sanat Kumar Samhita, may be it’s based on that, which is sometimes quoted by our Acharyas, in which the whole description of the Rasalila and everything and the madhurya pastimes is given [Laughs].
4.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Firstly thank you so much for the great series of presentations. I’ll be able to see you after a little bit. Maharaj, I have a question regarding something which is probably a bit weak in their sadhanas. What would your recommendation be for others to use as a kickstart out this bhakti process and also getting the mercy?
Well, bhakti can manifest in different ways. It may be quick or it may be slow or whatever like that, depending on different persons, different backgrounds, etc. In any case, we have to strive to progress further. As in the case, even in the material world, you can do anything. Material subject, let’s say you want to be a doctor or whatever like that, then you can be very, very enthusiastic about doing it and study all the time and get [Laughs], go to the university and get it [Laughs]. You could be a little bit inclined but not so much into it, and there are much slower processes there, whatever like that. Or you may not become a doctor at all, maybe just become medical assistant or maybe a nurse or maybe an ambulance attendant or something like that because you’re less serious. So depending on your seriousness in the material world, you get different results. So with bhakti also, we can’t force people to become serious. It’s just a matter of their own development in that particular life. So, whatever someone is born with, then, we can of course, change, but it has to have the will of the person behind that, the jiva behind that to make a decision to do something. And then of course, they can change everything.
So bhakti is such that we get remarkable transformation just by chanting the Lord’s name once, you can destroy all your karmas, past, present, future, even if it’s not with devotion. You chant as in the case of Ajamila. So, the process of devotion is very, very strong, such that Bhagavatam says that immediately you can surpass whatever birth you’re coming in, like a dog-eater or whatever, and you become superior to a brahmana in one second just by chanting the name of the Lord. So, we can get remarkable transformation quite quickly, immediately. But it may not be, that everybody gets the same result because that means if you get the immediate result, actually it means you had no offenses in this life or previous lifetimes, which may be rare also [Laughs]. So, if you do have offenses, then it becomes a little bit slower process. And if it’s more offenses, it becomes even slower. And we cannot control that. You know, we just we come to devotional service. We cannot understand which, how many offenses we committed in past lifetime. And that’s going to determine part of your, the progress and the quickness or the more difficulty in progress, etc. So, Its not under our control.
In any case, people have, if they are fortunate, then they do practice to some degree. And whatever they’ve done and whatever they do at the moment, whatever they accepted is good fortune definitely. And all we can do is encourage them to continue and advance. So it may be slow, and we don’t know. It may be quick. But anyway, we try to encourage them, but we cannot force also [Laughs] because we don’t know how much aparadhas were there in the past that they have to overcome. So, it may be more difficult for them also. But somehow we try to encourage them in any case, whether they have many aparadhas, little aparadhas, whether they go slow or fast. Encourage whatever and be positive towards them and help them. That’s all we can do.
Devotee: Sorry Maharaj. This chanting actually clean out our aparadhas. [Not clear]?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It will do it, but it’s a little slower. If you have no aparadhas, then all your karmas, everything gone, finished very quickly, as in the case of Ajamila or others. But if you have aparadhas, it becomes slower process. Then we’ll finally, like, you know, you go through anartha nivrtti, nistha, ruchi, asakti, then you get to bhava. So we have these [Laughs] many stages you go through. That’s usually because there has been some aparadhas, so it becomes slower process. But the aparadhas are only removed by bhakti and chanting. No other process does it.
5.) Maharaj you mentioned about that [Not audible]. Lord was favoring a mixed devotee like Indra and He’s putting in difficulty Vrtrasura [Not clear]. So, how do we understad this Maharaj being a devotee [Not clear].
So we see that, yes, devotees may undergo difficulties. If they are siddha devotees like the Pandavas, we should not take that as karma or anything else. They cannot have no karma or whatever like that. So, we understand this is some arrangement of the Lord for some other purpose. The devotees themselves, being in prema are all, they don’t mind such difficulties. It’s not a difficulty because they’re not their bodies [Laughs]. But it gives them an opportunity to surrender more to the Lord and get mercy from the Lord and get association with the Lord. So, that’s how they view that. So the Pandavas are not thinking over suffering, suffering, suffering. Why is the Lord doing this to us? This is an opportunity for us to serve the Lord more. That’s all. And that increases their ecstasy. So those are only arrangements that the Lord makes for certain pastimes with all of His own purposes in mind.
For those who are not siddha devotees who are practicing sadhana, they may get some arrangement by the Lord, which looks like karma or whatever, in order for them to advance in devotional service. So that’s, again, a Lord’s arrangement and His mercy. And those devotees also, do not take it as some fault on the Lord or some, let’s say, cruelty of the Lord that He is making me suffer like that [Laughs]. They also take it as mercy of the Supreme Lord so they can advance further. And if they take it that way, of course, the Lord is very pleased and He helps them. So, the Lord says, in some cases, I will take away all your wealth, so you surrender more [Laughs]. And Prabhupada quoted that when all of his wealth was taken away by one cheater when he was doing his pharmacy business. And this is the will of the Lord, whatever, so they accept it.
For those who are less advanced, the Lord may not do that, because [Laughs] if He takes away everything, then the devotee becomes depressed and he rejects Krishna and says the Lord is [Laughs] not very merciful at all. So, He may not do that with those devotees who are less advanced at all. In fact, the Lord may give things as He gave to Dhruva or He gives to Gajendra or whatever. Maybe the opposite for those devotees who have material things, want material things, then the Lord responds and gives them something. So the ārto and arthārthī, the Lord is also merciful to them and He encourages them and He may give them all these things so they will do more devotional service etc. So depending on the Lord’s decision, He will act differently with different types of devotees.
6.) Mother Yasoda, she is a pure devotee. But even in Damodara lila we see, Lord is not fully controlled until at the point that two fingers short is there. So, Lord also feels that endeavor is important [Not clearly audible]. So, is that Lord gets controlled always or He sees our actions?
Well, in the spiritual world, or when Krishna has pastimes in the material world, the surrender and being controlled by the devotee will operate within pastimes and pastimes occur over time. So then, when the surrender takes place, it will take place over time itself. So, it’s not, if Krishna was completely surrendered, He wouldn’t even run away from Mother Yasoda, He just gets tied up and mother Yasoda [Laughs]. There would be no pastime at all [Laughs]. So, in order to have the pastimes, then that surrender of Krishna to Yasoda takes place over some time, and with pastimes, and therefore manifests slowly or we can say a little bit delayed or whatever.
7.) Maharaj, in Dhruva Maharaj’s case, can we say that, as per Rupa Goswami mentions in Nectar of Instrction. Utsāhāt niścayāt dhairyāt [NoI 3] that he was following all those six principles of devotional service perfectly, is that how he managed to be successful in his duties Maharaj?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Dhruva?
Devotee: Dhruva Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, Dhruva was actually not practicing pure bhakti. He was doing yoga misra bhakti even. He wasn’t even doing pure bhakti in that sense, and then he had this desire to get a kingdom. So definitely not pure bhakti.
Devotee: But Maharaj those six principles like utsāhāt niścayāt dhairyāt and then giving up the association of non devotees, approaching a spiritual master. So, that’s, he was not doing bhakti, but he is following, can we say he was following the principles which is leading towards bhakti.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. Yeah. So, definitely he was following those principles. At the same time, he was not practicing pure bhakti [Laughs], so he was a little bit mixed in that sense. But let’s say that the good part was there, the good part of the bhakti, the determination, etc was there, which is also attractive to the Lord. As I said, the Lord generally responds. Well, of course, your effort is one thing, the other is the purity. But definitely purity wasn’t there [Laughs], because he had desire for the kingdom. So, nevertheless, the Lord did respond, and He revealed Himself after six months or whatever like that. So, we can say in one sense, it’s the judgment of the Supreme Lord, part was good, part was not so good [Laughs] but the Lord responded anyway. So, there was obviously wonderful qualities in Dhruva that He saw great determination, etc. But generally the Lord does not reveal Himself unless you come to bhava, which means almost all of your impurities are gone and your bhakti is developed to a certain degree. We don’t know the exact position of Dhruva at that point, but he still had some desire for his [Laughs] material kingdom. So obviously he was not really at the qualified stage for the Lord to appear before him, but the Lord did it anyway. So, we can say that’s the mercy of the Supreme Lord and why, of course, He was attracted to his determination, and he was just a small boy etc. So, there’s many reasons the Lord can give. That’s the will of the Lord, how He wants to make exceptions to the normal progress of bhakti.
Devotee: And also Maharaj, you have just earlier mentioning that when we don’t commit any offenses, it’s much easier and quicker to go to other, to plant the path of bhakti. In Dhruva Maharaj’s case, can you say, because he didn’t offend in his father, he didn’t offend anyone and his mother hasn’t done anything, like she doesn’t offend his father or his family, but she says, this is what we should do. So he didn’t have any offensive kind of a karma.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, we don’t know, but maybe previous lifetime, why would he get put in a position of being an unfairly treated stepchild [Laughs] or whatever like that [Laughs]. So [Laughs], that was the bad part of it. And then he got angry also, because he was, the king didn’t put him on the lap or whatever like that. So we don’t know really [Laughs].
8.) You always talk about humility and we read Siksastakam prayers, so, how do we cultivate that mood of humility?
Well, humility itself is intrinsic to bhakti, because to practice bhakti, then we have to accept I am the servant of Krishna [Laughs]. And if you’re not humble, you can’t even be a servant of Krishna. So, inherent in bhakti is this type of humility. And it’s described that the more you advance, the more you become humble. So, if you want to get more humility, then you [Laughs] advance more in bhakti. And it’s said in Brhad Bhagavatamrta, Sanatana Goswami, that the highest devotee is Radha and She has the most humility of all. Of all the devotees, She is the humblest of all. So, it’s intrinsic to bhakti itself, that humility. And as we advance, we become more humble. If it’s not there, then we say there’s something wrong with the bhakti. There must be some pride there. Then there is some problem with that bhakti itself. It’s not maybe real bhakti.
9.) Maharaj, you talk about pure bhakti. So, how do we perform pure bhakti in our day to day life?
Yeah. So, pure bhakti in the stage of sadhana, of course, is not really pure, because we do have anarthas. And those anarthas will continue up until bhava, and even into bhava. Of course, they get less and less and less [Laughs]. So, we go through a stage of anartha nivritti and we come to nistha. We come to nistha, it doesn’t mean anarthas are all gone. Anartha nivritti takes place. But there’s significantly less, so they don’t interfere with our bhakti. And if we get to asakti, ruchi and asakti, the anarthas are still there, but less and less. And meanwhile, the attraction to Krishna is increasing. So, the stage of sadhana bhakti goes up to bhava. And within that, we do have anarthas. So, in that sense, it’s not pure.
However, in the definition of pure bhakti itself, given by Rupa Goswami, we have three stages, sadhana, bhava and prema. So, we do sadhana in pure bhakti, even though we have anarthas [Laughs]. So technically, it is not really pure bhakti in one sense, but it is called pure bhakti because at least we know the difference between pure bhakti and not pure bhakti, the difference between Gajendra and Dhruva and practicing bhakti without asking Krishna for things. So in our daily sadhana, we’re chanting Hare Krishna. We’re not asking Krishna give me money, give me position, give me a job, give me this and that, whatever [Laughs]. We’re just chanting Hare Krishna. Please be, make me your servant, that’s all. We do have anarthas, definitely. We do have desires, but in our practice of sadhana, definitely we’re not asking for things directly like that, which is a big step because normally people are practicing dharma and going to temples [Laughs] and they’re praying for things. That’s all they’re doing. And that’s all they go to the temple for. So, when we practice pure bhakti, we may be doing the same things, going to the temple, but we’re not praying for things like that anymore. So it’s a big difference. So that’s the pure bhakti we have in sadhana. Even though we have anarthas, even though it’s not really pure, in our practice of bhakti itself, we are consciously avoiding all these things as being impure. So that, that’s how we have pure bhakti in sadhana. Okay. Hare Krishna.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!