Srimad Bhagavatam 5.24.3 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Auckland | 18 March 2026
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 24 Verse 3.
ŚB 5.24.3
tan niśamyobhayatrāpi bhagavatā rakṣaṇāya prayuktaṁ sudarśanaṁ nāma bhāgavataṁ dayitam astraṁ tat tejasā durviṣahaṁ muhuḥ parivartamānam abhyavasthito muhūrtam udvijamānaś cakita-hṛdaya ārād eva nivartate tad uparāgam iti vadanti lokāḥ.
Synonyms
tat — that situation; niśamya — hearing; ubhayatra — around both the sun and moon; api — indeed; bhagavatā — by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; rakṣaṇāya — for their protection; prayuktam — engaged; sudarśanam — the wheel of Kṛṣṇa; nāma — named; bhāgavatam — the most confidential devotee; dayitam — the most favorite; astram — weapon; tat — that; tejasā — by its effulgence; durviṣaham — unbearable heat; muhuḥ — repeatedly; parivartamānam — moving around the sun and moon; abhyavasthitaḥ — situated; muhūrtam — for a muhūrta (forty-eight minutes); udvijamānaḥ — whose mind was full of anxieties; cakita — frightened; hṛdayaḥ — the core of whose heart; ārāt — to a distant place; eva — certainly; nivartate — flees; tat — that situation; uparāgam — an eclipse; iti — thus; vadanti — they say; lokāḥ — the people.
Translation
After hearing from the sun and moon demigods about Rāhu’s attack, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, engages His disc, known as the Sudarśana cakra, to protect them. The Sudarśana cakra is the Lord’s most beloved devotee and is favored by the Lord. The intense heat of its effulgence, meant for killing non-Vaiṣṇavas, is unbearable to Rāhu, and he therefore flees in fear of it. During the time Rāhu disturbs the sun or moon, there occurs what people commonly know as an eclipse.
Purport
The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, is always the protector of His devotees, who are also known as demigods. The controlling demigods are most obedient to Lord Viṣṇu, although they also want material sense enjoyment, and that is why they are called demigods, or almost godly. Although Rāhu attempts to attack both the sun and the moon, they are protected by Lord Viṣṇu. Being very afraid of Lord Viṣṇu’s cakra, Rāhu cannot stay in front of the sun or moon for more than a muhūrta (forty-eight minutes). The phenomenon that occurs when Rāhu blocks the light of the sun or moon is called an eclipse. The attempt of the scientists of this earth to go to the moon is as demoniac as Rāhu’s attack. Of course their attempts will be failures because no one can enter the moon or sun so easily. Like the attack of Rāhu, such attempts will certainly be failures.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So this verse is explaining how Rahu attacks the sun and the moon by obscuring their light and of course in modern terms when the moon comes in front of the sun, we get eclipse of the sun and when the shadow of the earth hits the moon, we get an eclipse of the moon. So these are described as the attack of Rahu trying to devour the sun and the moon. But we see it’s in terms of just the planets themselves and their positioning. So actually from a technical point of view, Rahu is not a planet as we conceive of a planet, rather it’s a point in the sky [Laughs]. It’s not a real substantial planet, so sometimes called a shadow planet. But these particular points, astronomical points are such when they line up with the sun and the moon. Then we have the sun, moon and the earth in one particular line and this creates what we call the eclipse.
So of course that for the earth, people on earth, such events are considered inauspicious because it’s not the natural position of the sun and moon. They’re supposed to be shining in the day and the night and then we have an obstruction, an irregular obstruction. So this is considered to be very inauspicious, from the Vedic point of view. And also from not only the Vedic point of view, from the point of view of civilizations in general. And this is one of the reasons why they developed astronomy, so they could predict when such events would occur. And of course these events portend misfortune or whatever, so people want to prepare for that. So therefore we have the development of astronomy etc and also mathematics to make these predictions about the sun and the moon. But it’s not just the sun and the moon actually, it’s all the planets. They are objects of curiosity for ancient societies and thus they observe Venus and Mercury and Mars and Jupiter and Saturn etc. And this way we get the full development of astronomy, predicting all the different planetary movements in the sky. So this was also important or significant for ancient peoples and out of this we get astrology. The planets in certain positions give good luck and certain positions give bad luck [Laughs] or misfortune. So in this way we get the development of astrology as a predictive tool etc.
So the same thing we see in the Bhagavatam, all the planets are described and their movements are described. Of course not in detail as we get in astronomical texts, but we do get mention of all the planets and their orbits, distance above the earth, and their general sign, what they symbolize or what they indicate [Laughs]. And all this of course is a reflection of this interest in the planets because in certain positions they give good results and bad results. So the whole description of Mount Meru and the dwipas and the planets etc are there to explain some of the phenomenon we see on a daily basis. Every day we see the sun rises and the sun sets, the moon rises and the moon sets. Each day it happens. Somehow or other the moon keeps rising every night, and then sun keeps rising every day. So then they have explanations for that in terms of how everything is revolving around Mount Meru [Laughs].
And then we have the seasons, why we have some seasons which are hot and cold and why we see as the seasons progress throughout the year? The sun gets higher and higher in the sky at noontime, etc., and then at a certain point it stops and starts going down again. So we get the dakshinayana and uttarayana phases of the sun. So all these need some sort of explanation and we see there’s some explanation here in the Bhagavatam also about that, why the sun keeps rising up higher and higher in the sky until it reaches its highest point in the summer time and then starts going down every day. So it needs some sort of explanation. So we have explanation in the Srimad Bhagavatam of this phenomena.
So in this way we have an arrangement of the planets described in relation to a central axis with Mount Meru. And above that we have the Dhruva, polestar [Laughs]. So everything is revolving around that particular axis [Laughs]. So it’s not exactly a earth-centered explanation because where we are is slightly off from the center. We’re in Bharat varsha which is not in the center. It’s on the side of Jambudwipa and in the middle of Jambudwipa we have Mount Meru and that’s where everything is. So we are not actually, it’s not a geocentric explanation of the movements of the universe like ancient Greeks and they’re sort of geocentric. We’re exactly in the middle. Everything is going around like this. So in our model, this model here, it’s not us. It’s Mount Meru is in the middle. We’re kind of off to the side here [Laughs], a little bit off center. So but it’s kind of related to a geocentric vision of the universe.
As I mentioned the other day, this concept was given up when the Europeans developed scientific theory and used telescopes and things like that, about 300 years ago or so, 3 or 4 hundred years ago. There was the renaissance and development of science, etc. And then they rejected the Greek ideas which they previously accepted which is also carried on by the Christian church. They had the same theories. But then the scientists began to revolt and say, no, this isn’t true because we observe something else with our eyes [Laughs]. And this created a big controversy and many of the scientists got killed [Laughs] or put in prison or whatever because of their ideas that Earth is not the center [Laughs].
And so the new theory is Sun is in the center and Earth is going around and Earth is revolving like this. And it looks like planets are revolving around the Earth but it’s only because Earth is rotating. So this was a very, very revolutionary theory and it went against, of course the Greeks and against the same theory that the Christian church supported. So therefore, church got angry and began persecuting all the scientists and saying, you’re all heretics [Laughs]. Some of them got burned at the stake. Some got put in prison. So in this way, there was a big war between the church and the scientific researchers or whatever. And this went on for some time. But eventually, the church lost [Laughs] and science won. And then after that, the science became stronger and stronger until we get up to the present day where nobody listens to the church or scientific theories about the Earth and whatever. And so similarly, we’ll find with the Vedic version of things, again, somewhat like the Greek version. And then in the modern world, everyone looks at this, oh, this is all wrong. You know, science says this and this and this and this and whatever. So how can we believe in this? Flat Earth theory and everything revolving around the Earth or whatever like that. So consequently, these descriptions we find in Bhagavatam and other Puranas are rejected as being imaginary.
So in this way, we get a conflict between the traditional scriptures and scientific observation of the modern world. And most people, of course, go with the scientific description as being more realistic and practical. And then consequently, the ancient vision of Earth and the planets gets rejected as being mythology or due to lack of knowledge or foolishness or whatever. But we are taught that the scriptures are perfect, the scriptures have a vision of things and we can’t reject it and we can’t just interpret it as being imaginary or old-fashioned or whatever. So this is where our problem comes in, except in the fifth canto of Bhagavatam. Some people are very attached to their upbringing in modern science and they look at this and say, this is all imaginary [Laughs] and it’s very difficult to believe in such things. But if we look at ancient times, in ancient times, like 2,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, we shouldn’t think that these people were brainless. We have many great intelligent people, we have great mathematicians, etc, in India, who had nice theories about spherical Earth revolving, etc and whatever, and theory of eclipses, very similar to modern theory, whatever. Aryabhatta himself did all this, made calculations etc. But he was also a believer in scriptures, so he believed in the [Laughs] these descriptions of this as well.
So he had two visions, one based upon observation in the sky and one according to the scripture, and for him it was not contradictory. For us it is contradictory, for him it was not [Laughs]. So why is that? He had two different visions and he didn’t find them contradictory, just different. So he accepted this description here with Mount Meru, and he also was able to observe the sky and make calculations and come up with his own theories about how things were operating in the solar system, whatever. So, the point is that we are brought up in a certain culture where we accept science and we reject everything that contradicts it [Laughs]. In ancient times that was not so. You could observe things in the world, and you could also go by scripture, and it may look contradictory from our modern point of view, but for the ancient it was not contradictory. And so we have to ask, why? Why they find no contradiction when we find contradiction [Laughs]? And the answer will be that their minds operated differently than ours, and they could appreciate both visions. We cannot. We can only appreciate one vision, the modern scientific version of everything. So that’s why we had come up with this idea that the Bhagavatam is contrary to science or whatever.
So, thinking of it another way, we can say that the ancient scientists were also spiritualists, and they had a spiritual vision as well as a material vision, and they understood that spiritual vision may look contradictory to material vision, but it’s not. We’re looking at the same object in different ways, that’s all. So, therefore, when they look at the earth from a spiritual point of view, they see one thing, or not even spiritual, we could say higher material perspective. They see something different. Just as the devatas, or Lord Brahma, when they look at us on earth will see us differently than we perceive ourselves. Obviously, the time span of Brahma’s life is also quite different [Laughs] and his perspective is quite different. The devatas, in their heavenly planets, have different consciousness and different senses than ours. They have material senses, of course, and material bodies, but quite different from ours. Their intelligence is much finer, and therefore their perception of the earth and the human beings is much different from our perceptions. So, in this way, throughout the universe, we’re going to have different conceptions also.
So, now in this chapter, we’ve discussed the lower planetary systems, where their minds are completely tamasic whatever, or their vision of things is quite different [Laughs]. We see one topic of the Bhagavatam is called Uti. This means the impulses of different people in the universe. So, there are actually two impulses, the demonic and the daivic. Those who are devas have one vision of what the world is and what the goal is. Those who are demonic have another vision of what the world is and what the goal is. And consequently, they fight [Laughs]. So, we see there’s always a constant war between the devatas and the demons. Sometimes the demons attack the upper planets and kick out the devatas, and then the devatas get the planets back and push the demons down below the earth or whatever. So, there’s a constant struggle between different entities of the universe based upon their different visions of the world, the visions of reality itself are quite different.
So, in this way, within the material world itself, not to speak of spiritual, within the material world itself, completely different visions of what things are and what the goal of life is. And consequently, their, their, their, their idea of [Laughs] what is the world and the structure are also quite different. So, that has to be accepted in reading the Srimad Bhagavatam. Not only in this particular case, but we’ll see that Bhagavatam speaks of many things in an absolute way. And at the same time, they may reject them. So, we have Karma Yoga and Karma Kanda, part of the Vedas. They are praised because they’re part of the Vedas, and they have a particular use for certain types of people, and therefore, that’s praised as if absolute. And then another section of the Vedas, it is absolutely condemned as being foolish [Laughs]. So, Krishna Himself rejects Karma Yoga in 9th chapter, 7th chapter of Bhagavad Gita. At the same time, He praises it in 3rd chapter of Bhagavad Gita. So, how can both things be correct [Laughs]? So, it is according to different people, things are good.
So, for people who are materialistic, Karma Yoga is praised, it’s good for them, it’s beneficial for them. From the spiritual point of view, of course, no, it’s not good, it keeps you bound up in the material world, so then it gets condemned. So, we’ll find different viewpoints expressed in the Vedic literature itself, and we can’t just isolate one section and say, this is it, because we have other sections that look contradictory, so which is the correct one [Laughs]?
So, we have to be very careful when we read the scripture and we take a broader perspective of everything when we read it. And this can help solve some of the contradictions that we see, within what look like contradictions in the literature itself, such as Srimad Bhagavatam, where it rejects Karma Yoga as being foolish or whatever, other times it praises it [Laughs]. So, in this way we should read things very carefully. So, that’s also applicable here, and it becomes a little more, let’s say, explicit here, because we are conditioned to look at the modern world in a particular way, but when we see this, it’s completely opposite [Laughs].
If we take people 500 years ago, they read this, it is not contradictory, because they didn’t know anything about modern science then, but then when we start getting western ideas, etc like 400 years ago, 300 years ago, and then we start reading them, it gets a little puzzling. When we get to the modern world, it’s completely ridiculous, it is rejectable, we can’t accept this at all. And it’s because of our way we think. That’s all [Laughs]. So, therefore we do have to appreciate the scripture and the statements and descriptions in the Bhagavatam but from a different point of view, we may not be able to understand it but nevertheless it is there. Just as, not even spiritually speaking, this is material again, but if we observe with the left side of our brain, we’ll see things in one way. If we can perceive with our right brain, we’ll see something completely different [Laughs]. If we look with our left brain, which is the logical side, then we can analyze things scientifically. If we look with our right brain, we don’t consider science at all, we see something completely different. We see the world as one whole organic moving entity or something like that [Laughs]. So that’s kind of the spiritual side of our brain.
So, unfortunately we do cultivate the left brain in the modern world with a lot of learning and whatever, which is left brain activity, and therefore we see the whole world in that way. But if we switch to the right brain, and then we read Bhagavatam, yeah, it’s very nice [Laughs], we’ll accept it. It’s [Laughs] a different conception of the whole world. So the right brain is very acceptable, it sees things in different ways. So therefore we should understand the Bhagavatam with a mature vision and not simply from a limited material perception. At the same time, then, we should not be blind. We have what we call blind faith [Laughs]. This is one reason why people in the modern world may project religion, because we end up with things like the Christians burning the scientists at the stake because they had certain ideas that were contrary to their ideas or whatever. So, we see in ancient India, it wasn’t so. The scientists could say, okay, the earth is spinning around like this, and it’s going around the sun. They didn’t burn them at the stake [Laughs]. He was a great scientist and they honored him and he also honored the Vedas. People were different. They could accept contrary ideas and understand that they’re speaking with a different vision on different levels.
So, as devotees, we often tend to polarize things and reject the scientific and the purely logical. And that’s for good reason, because scripture itself says logic is limited and we can’t understand scripture using logic. But then, our Acharyas also say that logic is there and it is useful. We can use it also or we must use it [Laughs]. To get the meaning of scripture, we have to use logic. And so, there’s a whole system developed on how to get the correct meaning of scripture by using certain rules established by logic. In this way, scripture itself needs some intelligence in order to get the real meaning. If we have two contrary statements, we have to somehow logically explain why they are contradictory. So, we don’t reject logic completely, but it is not independent and it is not beyond or above the scripture.
So, we take the two in combination and we can use scripture, or use logic when we look at scripture, etc, as long as we don’t let it dominate our interpretations and whatever, and just start discarding things without proper understanding. So therefore, we don’t reject the logical process, but we put it in its proper place. It does have practical applications. And so, we see that in ancient times, though we can say that people in ancient India were very religious and followed the scriptures a lot and based everything on scripture, the people also were free to investigate, experiment, observe, invent many things [Laughs] using logical abilities. And therefore, we have highly developed science in ancient India, highly developed agriculture, highly developed linguistics, highly developed design etc., engineering, etc, all based on logic. So, logic was never rejected, but it had its place in the material world on a practical level. So, therefore, the devotee should also use logic, but put it in its proper place. It should follow after the scripture. And that is exactly what the ancient sages did, they used logic and it had its place within the broader view of scripture itself.
Okay, any question there?
Q & A :
1.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj yesterday you mentioned about Lord Brahma and how the Lord Himself takes the role of Lord Brahma when there is nobody else suitable to take the role. And Lord Brahma is also a living entity under the influence, I’m assuming the three modes of material nature and he’s a living entity, jivatma. So, how does the Lord appear and disappear? When He takes the role of Lord Brahma, does He appear and disappear like a living entity or when He leaves the world, does He appear and disappear like the Supreme Personality of Godhead?
Well, how does Krishna appear and disappear? It looks like He’s an ordinary living entity, appears and looks like He’s born. He gets shot in the foot by [Laughs] an arrow, looks like He disappears [Laughs] like a mortal. So, that’s Krishna, of course. He appears like, on the other hand, Rama is a little more spectacular. He doesn’t disappear in the same way [Laughs]. He goes up in a chariot, I think, so quite spectacular. So, the Lord can appear and disappear in various ways, which may be either look mundane or be very, very spiritual essence. So, He comes out of a pillar as Narasimha Dev [Laughs] comes out of the mouth or the nostril of Brahma as Varaha etc. So, He appears in different ways and whatever like that. So, that’s very variable. So, similarly, if He appears as Brahma, then He can appear however He wants, from the navel of Vishnu, whatever. If He wants to, He could appear in another way. We see in the Brahma Samhita that it describes Shiva. So, normally, in Bhagavatam, Shiva comes out of the mind of, forehead of Brahma. But then here, I think, Brahma Samhita comes out of the left side of his body or something like that. So, then Jiva Goswami comments. So, yeah, in different kalpas, in different universes, in different lifetimes of the Brahmas etc, things happen slightly different sometimes. So, Brahma or Shiva are going to appear in different ways at different times.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: How do we worship Shiva?
Devotee: Yeah.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, for us, yeah, of course, Vishnu is Supreme Lord. And then we say, well, you shouldn’t confuse Shiva and Vishnu and say they’re the same [Laughs]. So, we do make a little distinction. At the same time, our Acharyas say that, in general, Shiva is just another form of Vishnu. So, we can’t really say he is different [Laughs]. But he manifests less qualities than Vishnu form, five qualities less. So, therefore, we cannot say He’s exactly the same. So, in this way, he is a devotee [Laughs] of the Lord because he is showing less powers, just as Vishnu Himself is a devotee of Krishna [Laughs]. At the same time, He is Supreme Lord Himself in one form. So, we respect him in all cases. And we have to distinguish him from the other devatas because he is a form of Vishnu. At the same time, he is also less than Vishnu. So, therefore, we take him as a servant of Vishnu at the same time. And there’s nothing wrong with that because even we take the Supreme Lord Himself as Vishnu form, a servant of Krishna. So, we worship Advaita Acharya as He’s Mahavishnu. So, he’s a servant of Caitanya Mahaprabhu also, even though he is Supreme Lord. So, nothing wrong with even taking the Supreme Lord as servant in certain cases. So, that’s also the case with Shiva. He is the subordinate to Bhagavan, Vishnu form. So, therefore, we take him as the servant.
Devotee: So for the Shiva bhaktas, like in the material world they get offended [Not clear] when we say Vishnu is the topmost [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes. So, if we take Shiva as the highest form, independent of everyone else, then this goes against scripture and it becomes an aparadha to Vishnu. So, therefore, then that is wrong [Laughs].
Devotee: [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. Yeah. So, we do have, for instance, we have Hanuman bhaktas. But they are worshipping Hanuman not as Supreme, but as the servant of Rama. So, nothing wrong with that [Laughs]. But if we worship Shiva, then nothing wrong with that. But if we take him as Supreme and Vishnu as secondary, then that becomes offensive. So, they should serve in the proper way. We do have one sampradaya, the Rudra sampradaya, which is a Vaishnava sampradaya. And that’s approved. Shiva is the head of the sampradaya who gives knowledge, etc. So, we have no problem with accepting Shiva. But we see his proper place.
Devotee: So in Lakshmi sampradaya [Not clear], four Kumaras, concept that Vishnu is the topmost.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. In all cases, yeah.
3.) Maharaj, [Not clear] You understand that there is an interplanetary travel. So, it’s a mystery how some of these may be structured.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Structure is fine.
Devotee: Yeah. She is saying that there is some structures in this world where the scientists cannot explain how the structures are formed.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Devotee: And then from our radios we know that there is interplanetary travel.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay. Okay [Laughs]. Well, of course, we have structures like the pyramids or whatever are involved back with this huge piece of stone [Laughs] that no one can lift it [Laughs]. What are they going to do with this stone when they can’t even lift it? We have many mysterious things there and of course, then there are various theories about that. Why does extraterrestrials come down and do [Laughs] all these things [Laughs] in ancient times? Or another theory is that, related to that, may be there were ancient cultures before our cultures than before, you know, 5,000 years ago, may be 20,000 years ago, 30,000 years ago, there were cultures also and these are the remnants of those cultures, and they were more advanced than we are, so therefore they could do more fantastic things. This, of course, is in line with Bhagavatam itself, which says that we go through yuga cycles, and we have, you know, 4 million years ago, we have, you know, Satya Yuga, more advanced than us and [Laughs] they could do many more things and have many more powers, they have greater science, greater knowledge, materially and spiritually, and then when we come to Kali Yuga, which is like 4 million years later, then we end up with, you know, what we call science, but that’s a very, you know, a reflection of what was previously there. So that doesn’t really contradict us when we say that, but of course there is the modern [Laughs], you know, archaeological theory, which will reject all of this and say it’s all nonsense, and this is just, you know, somehow or other the ancients could do this, you know, 5,000 years ago or 3,000 years ago, whatever, with whatever tools they had, so.
And of course there are explanations of how they built stonehenge or the pyramids, you know, using their particular instruments, but there are, we could say, problems, because how they cut the stone so precisely is a little bit difficult to understand when they didn’t have advanced tools [Laughs]. They had may be copper at the most, which bends very easily, and they would leave scratch marks all over the stones or whatever, so they did seem to have some advanced cutting techniques that wasn’t just copper and stones and chipping away with [Laughs] chisels. It was something else also. We don’t know from, you know, a modern perspective like that. But as I said from Bhagavatam, it says, well it doesn’t, it’s pretty sensible because we do have previous things going back not only 4 million years but, you know, from the beginning of the day of Brahma [Laughs], which is, you know, many, many, many, many millions of years previously. So, it doesn’t contradict what we say [Laughs].
4.) What acts does one have to commit to enter the subterranean heavenly planets? Materially, it sounds like they enjoy pleasure greater than the heavenly planets, which implies good karma, but they exist in tamo-guna, complete forgetfulness of the Lord, which sounds like bad karma.
Well, ignorance of the Lord is not actually bad karma. Ignorance is ignorance, and then we can be in tamoguna and whatever, and it depends. Usually, people are a mixture. They may be tamo-guna but they don’t commit so many sinful activities. Nevertheless, they’re tamo-guna and they have a great desire for enjoyment, so they can go to those places. If they are tamo-guna, very tamo-guna oriented, plus they’re very violent, they wouldn’t even be on those planets. They’ll be animals or plants [Laughs]. So, there’s so many opportunities within each guna. Sattva guna also. You can be sattva guna on earth and be a brahmana. You can be a upper planet on Swarga Loka or you could be up to Brahma Loka even. You’ve got all these different stages above. And you could be on earth also, which is generally more rajasic and it could be sattva guna also. So, people are, there’s a variety of sattva guna people. Similarly, there’s a variety of rajo guna people. We have even the different dwipas, all on the earth level of rajo guna, all you know [Laughs] different peoples and we have different parshas also, the people. And then we have lower planetary system, largely in tamo-guna etc. So, therefore, you can be tamo-gunish, but you can have mixtures within there. And then your karmas may be various also. Some may be very sinful, some be less sinful. Just like we have sudras in the varnashrama system. They’re tamo-guna but they’re not sinful, because they’re following varnashrama system. So they get reward for that [Laughs]. So, therefore, there’s various combinations of tamo-guna which will put us in various places.
5.) As a devotee, we feel we would love to accept this cosmology according to the Bhagavatam, but it would be nice to have some empirical evidence that we can refer to that gives us some faith to accept this, or even for the purpose of presenting this for preaching purposes. Could you share any evidence, please?
Well, empirical evidence would mean what? Because if a sage comes back, Narada Muni comes down and says, okay, I testify Bhagavatam, the vision of the universe [Laughs] is correct [Laughs]. There’s a Mount Meru in the middle, there’s dwipas, there’s higher planets, there’s lower planets. He says, I saw it. We won’t accept that testimony, according to, you know, scientists won’t accept it. We will accept it, but scientists won’t accept it [Laughs]. So if a great sage or a great yogi says the same thing in the modern world, comes down from the Himalayas and says, no, Bhagavatam is correct, I’ve seen it like this. They’re not going to accept also. So what type of, you know, concrete proof do we need? What I said is, you can’t really prove it concretely because our instruments and our vision of reality is limited in a certain way. We see in three dimensions or somebody sees in five dimensions, he sees something completely different. But we won’t accept it [Laughs] because we don’t see that way. We see this way [Laughs]. So, therefore, it’s quite difficult to get concrete proof of it. Like take a photograph [Laughs] of the moon or something, say this is, look, there’s a Mount Meru here or whatever. We’re not going to see that. All that can be done is to, let’s say, see that there is, or appreciate that there are certain concepts here that are presented within this model of the universe in the Bhagavatam, which, to some extent, may agree with certain scientific principles, like electromagnetic fields or something like that, which you cannot see also, but maybe we can detect a little bit. So we have electromagnetic fields and whatever. Similarly, we have our subtle body, which is also may be electromagnetic also, but so subtle we can’t even detect it. May be they will in the future have an instrument to detect very subtle, which is now invisible to us, fields of electromagnetism or other energies or whatever around the body, whatever, and may be in the whole world. Then we’ll see another world [Laughs]. We’ll get another vision of the world, just as some people who are not even yogis, they can see your subtle body. They can see your chakras, because their vision has become a little bit more sensitive. So may be those persons also can look at the world [Laughs]. They go off in a special vehicle and they can see the world. They’ll see something completely different from us [Laughs]. But then who’s going to accept it? The scientist will not accept it because he doesn’t have that vision. So there’s a problem there between what we want as proof.
6.) He also asks, we always hear how the planets, their position, have some specific effect on us, like on our karma. Can you explain what is the direct correlation between us and the planets and why do they have some large imposition on our life?
Well, planets, not according to science, but according to the Vedas, are ruled by certain devatas. And the devatas are in charge of certain things within this world, like the elements and the senses, etc. So for each of our senses, we have a devata. For material elements, we have devatas. And the devatas are acting according to certain laws. Our bodies are produced according to karma. And this is also a law. And the devatas are there to enforce the law. So therefore, in one sense, the devatas make our body [Laughs] and they determine our karma. Of course, we make our karma and they just carry out the law of karma for us. So in this sense, the devatas are kind of ruling over our senses and our weaknesses and our sicknesses and our accidents, etc [Laughs]. So, in that sense then, we say there is some control or whatever. Of course, from a modern point of view, they’ll say, well, these bodies are so far away, they have very minimal influence in terms of gravity or whatever, you know, scientifically measurable [Laughs] influence on us. You know, the moon. Of course, the moon is the most obvious one because it does affect the water on the earth and tides. It affects our body. So therefore, on Ekadasis we fast because the moon is affecting the water in the body or something like that. So there are some measurable effects of the moon. But, you know, a planet like Jupiter, which is so far away [Laughs] how can it have any significant effect? Plus, how can it have an effect on individuals in different ways, each one within the, on earth planet? It sounds rather ridiculous. So the counter argument is, don’t think of it in terms of physical influence. Just think of it as the planets act as an indication of our karma. That’s all. It’s just a way of reading our karma. Like you can read a letter or something like that and open it up. So you take your planets and you read the planets and then you can say, this is how your karmas are going to operate. So simply indications of your karmas at certain periods of your life. So that’s how we can take it. Not that the planets are zapping you in certain ways. It’s not like that. But they’re indicating something. And if you want to get rid of your bad karma, then you worship that devata [Laughs], planetary devata [Laughs].
Devotee: Is it true that the earth is the only place one can accrue karma in order to then go somewhere else in the universe?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, of course, this place is called karma bhumi in one sense. And we earn our karma. But no one in the whole universe is free of karma [Laughs]. Everybody’s getting it. But I suppose it’s called that because you fall down from the heavenly planets and you plop down onto our bhu-mandala [Laughs] at a certain stage. So everyone within universe is affected by karma. If they didn’t have karma, they wouldn’t be here. They would be out of the material world. They have liberation, but they don’t [Laughs]. So everybody’s getting karma and experiencing karma and producing more karma all the time. So nobody’s really going to escape from it.
7.) What other types of beings exist within the middle planetary system?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: What type?
Devotee: What other types of beings exist within the middle planetary system?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So middle is generally rajasic, lower is tamasic, upper is sattvic like devatas above. We have the Rahu, who’s below the swarga sphere. So it’s also [Laughs] very passionate, rajasic. The antariksha. So the earth basically is this. But then again, we’ll see that the other dwipas are called bhauma swarga. So we have bharata varsha. On Jambu dwipa we have the different varshas. And bharata varsha is on the edge and then we have the other varshas like this, up at the top. And divided by mountain ranges, which we cannot surpass. And these are called bhauma swarga. So unlike our bharata varsha, they’re also heavenly [Laughs]. So it is said that the devatas, when they exhaust their punyas fall down to that area and get a little more enjoyment on the earth level [Laughs]. But in general, we say it’s rajasic. The earth level is the rajasic area for people. People who are very active.
Devotee: Thank you Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay. Hare Krishna.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura premanande Hari Haribol!!!