Govardhan Lila | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Japan | Nov 1, 2025
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So in the scriptures, there are many holy places to mention. And if you visit those places and respect them and worship them, you can spiritually advance. But of all the places, one of the most sacred is the area of Mathura. So to celebrate is being even superior to the spiritual world Vaikuntha. So though in the material world, it is very spiritual. So within that area of Mathura, then we have an even more sacred place called Vrindavana. And it’s in this place that Krishna had His rasa-lila pastime. So, these places are also sacred, not only because Krishna was there, but He held certain pastimes or lilas there. And if you go to Vrindavan today, there are many places you can visit, and they’re all very sacred, and then they have their own stories related to them. Actually here we see it’s kind of shaped like a lotus [Laughs]. That’s because in the scriptures it describes the whole spiritual world as being shaped like a lotus. We see that description mentioned in the Brahma Samhita.
So we have the forest of Vrindavan within the area of Mathura, and right there in that Vrindavan is also Govardhan hill. And that place is considered even more sacred. And why? Because Krishna lifted that whole mountain with His hand. And moreover, He had many famous pastimes on that hill. And even more sacred than that is Radha-kunda, which is right next to Govardhan hill. So the hill is kind of shaped like a peacock, and then two little [Laughs] Radha-kunda and Shyam-kunda are like the eyes there. So all of these places are considered very, very sacred and very powerful and invoking bhakti. If we look at it from material eyes, then we’ll say, oh, this is a bunch of pile of rocks [Laughs]. And it’s not even a very high mountain. It’s like a hill [Laughs]. And for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, it has been worshipped. It has been very, very sacred.
So of course, it’s also mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam. So there’s a particular pastime of Krishna related to Govardhan. Of course, it’s said that Krishna would go there every day with the cowherd boys, and he would herd the calves and cows and have them feed on the grass of Govardhan hill. And one day in the autumn season, which is actually about two weeks ago? Two weeks ago [Laughs] (Goavardhan puja in 2025 happened 2 weeks ago by the time this lecture was happening), the cowherd men, including Nanda Maharaj, were preparing a huge festival.
So, Krishna was seven years old, and so He asked His father, what are you doing? So Nanda Maharaj replied that, we have a tradition in this village that every year in the autumn season, we do yajna or homa for Indra. Of course, there are many devatas which are worshipped in the vedas. But Indra has a very high position, he’s king of the devatas. And he’s also in control of rain. And rain is very important for people doing agriculture and for people raising cows because if you have rain, you get grass. If you’ve got grass, then your cows can eat [Laughs]. So every year, the cowherd men, headed by Nanda Maharaj, would perform this yajna for Indra with all sorts of valuable offerings. And Krishna says, why are you doing this? And of course, Nanda Maharaj replies, this is our tradition, and of course, if we worship Indra, he gives rain. If we get rain, we get grass. If we get grass, the cows eat the grass. Then they give milk, and that’s our wealth. Krishna, of course, explains this nicely in the third chapter of Bhagavad Gita. If you want the rain to come, you have to do yajna. When the rain comes, the grass grows, and the plants grow, and that is, we get nourished. When we get nourished, we should do more yajna, get more rain, more food, and this way, we prosper [Laughs]. Of course, in Bhagavad Gita, when it talks about yajna, it also says yajna is Vishnu, not Indra.
So, if we look in the vedas, we will see, yes, Indra is very prominent, but actually, Vishnu is more prominent. So, Krishna began to argue [Laughs]. And He told His father, no, this is all nonsense, you don’t have to do all this yajna for Indra [Laughs]. We can’t see Indra. We see the rainfall, and we see that the rain falls on Govardhan, Govardhan gives grass, and cows eat the grass. So, let’s worship Govardhan instead. This, of course, was not a very good argument, because even in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says you must do yajna [Laughs]. He doesn’t say, worship a hill instead [Laughs]. However, everyone in Vrindavan, including Nanda Maharaj, were obedient to Krishna. So, for Krishna, they were willing to give up their traditions.
That is the nature of the people of Vrindavan, they are completely surrendered to whatever Krishna wants. So, they took all the offerings for Indra, and instead they offered everything to Govardhan hill. So, even today, in Vrindavan, if you go there on this particular day, you’ll see people worshipping Govardhan. And they also make piles of food that look like Govardhan [Laughs]. Govardhan So, this was a great festival, everyone was very happy, and they were following Krishna’s orders, so they offered everything to Govardhan [Laughs]. Then Krishna expanded Himself into a form on top of Govardhan hill and He ate all the food [Laughs]. So, in this way, there was no contradiction to the instructions that Krishna gives in Bhagavad Gita. So, they were doing sacrifice to Supreme Lord, no problem. In other words, this was a trick of Krishna to get the people to stop worshipping Indra and worshipping Supreme Lord [Laughs]. Everybody was very joyful. They made the offering, Krishna and Govardahana accepted it, and then they went around Govardhan to circumambulate.
So, the only problem was that Indra got angry. Indra, of course, was expecting the offering as usual every year. So, it is said that the devatas live of the offerings that people give them. So, he was very upset that Krishna had interrupted the sacrifice. He became angry at Krishna, he became angry at all the people of Vrindavan. And then, he thought of Krishna as simply a small boy causing a lot of problems. So, therefore, he had a solution how to punish Krishna and the cowherd people. Of course, Indra accused them of being intoxicated with their wealth. This, of course, is a general tendency. If people become wealthy, then they don’t respect God anymore [Laughs]. But we can also say the same about Indra. Indra was intoxicated with his power [Laughs]. He could not recognize that Krishna was superior to him. So, he got all of his clouds together to pour rain on Vrindavan. So, he’s got regular clouds, but he’s also got some very special clouds. When the whole universe is destroyed, there’s a big rain. So, there’s big clouds that produce rain, rain, rain, and the whole universe gets covered with water. So, he had those clouds as well. So, his intention was to destroy everything in Vrindavan with all this water. So, he instructed his clouds to go there and destroy everything with water. So, the clouds began to pour rain, and everybody, including the cows and the calves, began to suffer. The whole place became covered with water. So, all the people didn’t know what to do.
What did they do? They went to Krishna. Though Krishna was just a small boy, everyone in Vrindavan took Krishna as their protector. So, this is the natural action of a person who is surrendered to the Lord. A surrendered person takes the Supreme Lord as their only protector. So, they won’t go to anybody else. They just go to Krishna. So, they went to Krishna, and of course, Krishna responded properly. In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, “As you surrender unto Me, I respond accordingly.” If you surrender a little, Krishna gives a little. If you surrender more, Krishna gives more. If you surrender completely, then Krishna also gives everything. So, the people of Vrindavan are examples of people who have surrendered everything completely to Krishna. So, therefore, Krishna had to respond properly to these people. So, He was completely obliged to protect all of the people and the cows. Of course, we should never think that they have material bodies. Actually, they have spiritual bodies, so they are not afflicted by heat, cold, rain, whatever [Laughs]. However, there is an appearance as if everybody is suffering whatever, for pastimes. So, therefore, Krishna resolved to protect all the people.
Krishna, of course, has many solutions to problems [Laughs]. So, this time, He gave a very original solution no one could think of [Laughs]. We could think, may be you have a big boat and they all get in the boat and float away [Laughs]. Another is to go Indra and fight with Indra and defeat Indra and make him stop the clouds [Laughs]. But, instead, He did something very different [Laughs]. He took that Govardhan hill, which everybody had worshipped previously, and He lifted it up with the little finger of His left hand [Laughs]. And, though the mountain doesn’t look that big nowadays, actually, everybody, millions of people could fit under that hill. And, though there was water everywhere, when He lifted the mountain, under the mountain, no water at all, dry, only dry. In fact, it became like a big city. Everybody went under the mountain. They weren’t aware that there was water all around them, that Indra was pouring rain everywhere [Laughs].
So, Krishna held up that mountain for seven days and nights. And, He was not tired at all. And, all the people were very joyful. So, they had a big party [Laughs]. For seven days and nights [Laughs]. They had the New Year’s party all night, for seven days and nights, they were [Laughs] awake [Laughs]. And, the special feature was that everybody could see Krishna continually 24 hours a day for one week [Laughs]. Usually, people of Vrindavan can see Krishna part of the day, other parts they never see Him. Nanda and Yasoda see Krishna in the morning, then they don’t see Him all day, because He goes to the fields, and He comes back at night only. Cowherd boys see Krishna in the morning, they go in the fields with Him. At night time, they all go home, and they don’t see Krishna. So, in this case, everybody could see Krishna continually, for seven days and nights. And so, everybody became increasingly blissful. And, simultaneously, even though Krishna was holding up the hill with His left hand, He could still respond to everybody according to their particular rasas. So, He was joking with the cowherd boys. And, the Gopis who were developing their madhurya rasa for Krishna at this time, then He was looking at them with very affectionate glances. And, the elders who had vatsalya rasa were thinking, Krishna is getting tired, so they also began to try to hold up the mountain [Laughs]. So, in this way, everybody was very satisfied in their relationship with Krishna.
In the Nectar of Devotion, the first verse, it says that Krishna is akhila-rasamrta-murti. He is the very form of all rasas. So, of course, we have five primary rasas and seven secondary rasas. Krishna manifests all of these, even simultaneously. And, this is what distinguishes Him from other forms of God. Other forms show some of the rasas, sometimes [Laughs]. And, Krishna can show all the rasas simultaneously [Laughs]. So, in this way, everybody was completely satisfied. The only one not satisfied was Indra [Laughs]. He kept raining with his clouds, and the clouds kept pouring rain [Laughs]. And, finally, there was no more rain left. Clouds got exhausted. And then, Indra recognized he had made a big mistake. He thought he was more powerful than the people of Vrindavan and Krishna, but actually, he was defeated by them. So, through this pastime, Krishna was able to give a lesson to Indra.
Through this pastime, Indra learned that Krishna, though He is a small boy, He is actually Supreme Lord. He may look like a human child, but actually, He is Supreme Lord. And He is much greater than Indra or any devata. So, this is the lesson that He taught to Indra. Of course, for the people of Vrindavan, then He showed that, if you surrender to Krishna, Krishna protects you [Laughs]. He showed them that, rather than worship Indra, we should worship Krishna. So, therefore, this pastime showed many different, gave many different teachings.
After this event of course, then Indra felt repentance. So then he went privately to Krishna and he began to apologize [Laughs]. We see previously that, Brahma also tried to fool Krishna, he got defeated. So, he also went to Krishna and apologized [Laughs]. So, Indra went privately to Krishna because he was ashamed and, of course, Krishna also wanted to be private, because He didn’t want to have all the people of Vrindavan see Indra come to Krishna and then, they would understand Krishna is Supreme Lord. So, He hid that from the people of Vrindavan.
So, Indra offered his prayers and Krishna accepted. Even though Indra had committed a big offense by trying to destroy Krishna and all the devotees, Krishna still forgave him. So, Indra came with his elephant and with a Surabhi cow. So, then, after the prayers, etc, then Indra bathed Krishna with the milk of Surabhi. So, this was an abhishek to make Krishna king of the cows. We see when a king ascends the throne, they do abhishek [Laughs]. That’s why on the appearance day of Krishna, we do abhishek also [Laughs]. So, Krishna was made king of the cows, so they did abhishek [Laughs]. And, He got the name Govinda [Laughs]. So, from that time then, Krishna became known as Govinda. So, in this way, that pastime ended by Indra’s defeat and his recognition of Krishna as the Supreme Lord. So, on this day of Govardhan puja, we worship Govardhan, we build a mountain out of food, we worship that, and we also worship the cows [Laughs].
Okay, Hare Krishna.
Q & A:
1.) Maharaj, we were discussing like, when Krishna was there, Govardhan was very big right. But now Govardhan is finishing. So, what was that, some curse was there?
Yeah, I think in some puranas, the curse maybe, every year it would shrink by a mustard seed [Laughs] or something like that [Laughs]. So, over the ages it’s shrinking, it’s shrinking, it’s shrinking little bit.
Devotee: So it’s shrinking or it’s going down?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, yeah, the size is decreasing. In the Bhagavatam and other literatures, you will find that, that Govardhan is considered a very high, towering mountain, but here we see it’s [Laughs] now quite a low mountain.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj ji. Like, I have read, like, it’s important to take darshan of Harideva temple before one should start Govardhan parikrama. So, what’s the significance of that?
All these, we have many different rules which have evolved over time, by tradition, in that place, due to the people there. A lot of the things we follow are based upon the conduct of the Goswamis. So, they gave great reverence to that hill. They would not walk on the hill even [Laughs]. And they do parikrama by offering obeisances, going all the way around, which is quite painful [Laughs]. It takes quite a long time, but they would offer respects by doing that. And they often made their kutir there, near Radha-kunda, near the foot of Govardhan.
Devotee 1: Thank you Maharaj ji. Also, like, Maharaj ji, is there any Gopal deity on the top of Govardhan?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, at the time of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, there was a deity there. Later on, it was removed, I think, because the Muslims came [Laughs]. And one of the deities was the, what is that, the one is in Srinath, Srinath deity. It was on Govardhan at one time. When the Muslims came, they took the deity and they hid it, and eventually it ended up in Rajasthan [Laughs]. So that was originally discovered by Madhavendra Puri on Govardhan, but later on it was taken away.
Vallabhacharya was the one who was worshipping that deity and then when the Muslims came, they took it off the hill and they brought it to Mathura. At that time then, Goswamis went to see the deity, because they didn’t ever go up the hill, but they could see the deity when they went to Mathura. So they had darshan of the deity in Mathura.
Devotee 2: Maharaj, can we bring one stone from [Govardhan]?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No [Laughs]. So, Govardhan is sacred and may be the first person to take the stone was Raghunatha. Lord Caitanya gave him a small Govardhan sila and he began worshipping that. So, after that, then, many devotees would take stones from Govardhan and worship them. They can worship Him as servant of Krishna or actually as non-different from Krishna.
Devotee 2: But is it ok that I go and take?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, if we do, then we should properly respect it [Laughs], not [Laughs] keep it in the casket or something. It’s like Salagram, not ordinary stone.
Devotee 2: But Maharaj I heard that we should not bring any stone from Govardhan by ourself. If some Vrajavasi gives us, we can bring.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No rule but [Laughs]. I think they say this because they don’t want people to keep taking stones from Govardhan. If they keep doing that, we know Govardhan left eventually [Laughs].
3.) What is this Salagram? Like we have one Salagram in our home altar. But I thought like it’s the same. Is it a different thing?
So, the Salagram, of course, they come from the Gandaki river. And they are considered to be non-different from Vishnu. And we don’t have to do installation. If we make a deity out of metal or wood or stone, then we have to do pratistha ceremony. For that, no. It is already non-different from the Supreme Lord. So then, you have to worship like you worship the deity. So, many homes have, particularly brahmanas will have a Salagram in their house and they worship Him as Krishna [Laughs]. Also described in the Hari Bhakti Vilasa.
4.) As you told, we have to do Govardhan parikrama. So, why the worship means like, why this method of parikrama was established? We can directly go and worship Govardhan also na? What is the significance of parikrama? Why is the parikrama way of worshipping is established, even for the Vrindavan also and any deities also?
We do Vrindavan parikrama, Govardhan parikrama, Mayapur parikrama, Navadvipa parikrama [Laughs], I think Gaura mandala parikrama [Laughs], Puri parikrama [Laughs].
Devotee: Chaurasi kosa parikrama.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaja: So parikrama of course, literally means to go around. So, it is a sign of respect. So, if we have a deity, then there is a parikrama path and you go around the deity as a matter of respect [Laughs]. Of course, we can also respect by dandavat, you know, offering respects on the ground. So there’s and of course, we can respect by offering puja, incense, flowers etc. So, offering respects and doing parikrama is, may be a simpler way of respecting without having to make offerings.
Devotee: Maharaj and why do we do parikrama clockwise? Why not anti clockwise?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: I think counter clockwise is Shiva or someone [Laughs]. For Vishnu it is clockwise [Laughs]. They may have to do also with the pranas. By going this way [Not clear] aura [Laughs].
5.) Maharaj, like, as we were discussing about the demigods, so Krishna ji also wants all the Vrajavasis to realise that one should worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead rather than the demigods. So, for example, today also, we use to pray, lot of farmers also use to pray to Lord Indra. For example, during diwali, we used to pray for the money, we used to pray Lakshmi. For the strength, we used to pray Lord Hanuman. In recent times, I just stopped all of these and I just started taking the name of Krishna. So will this make demigods offensive towards me? Will this have some effect in my life? All those demigods.
So, in Bhagavad Gita, in Chapter 3, Krishna says, worship the devatas. That’s part of karma yoga. In Chapter 9, when He talks about bhakti, He says, don’t worship the devatas [Laughs]. He says, that worship is not proper, avidhi purvakam. And of course, the reason is that Krishna gives power to the devatas so they can give their benedictions. So, if we worship the devatas independently and think they are giving, that’s wrong. However, we can worship the devata understanding they are the servant of Krishna. So if we can take the prasada incense and the prasada flower etc of Krishna, we can offer it to devatas, no problem. So in that way, we don’t avoid not worshiping [Laughs]. At the same time, we worship in a proper way, recognizing Krishna as Supreme.
6.) So, I read one book about Indian religion for Hinduism and there is this explanation about Krishna and Vishnu that Krishna and Vishnu are same. For other theologies, Krishna and Vishnu are different. So, which one is exactly correct?
So, that is correct. Actually, only one Supreme Lord, but He can have many forms. So that one form, Bhagavan or Supreme Lord is Krishna. He’s also Rama. You know Rama? He is with the bow [Laughs] and arrow. He’s also Vishnu with four hands. Also Narasimha Dev. So, many different forms of God are there, but they’re actually one, one God.
Devotee: And there’s Buddha also.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Buddha also. Sometimes we talk about Dasavataras, ten avataras, and we have Rama, Krishna, Varaha, Narasimha and Buddha you know and Kalki [Laughs]. So, unlike human beings, God can take many forms and still be one [Laughs]. And all the forms are eternal. Anyway, all those forms we can worship. There’s another type of personality called devata. They’re not the same. Devata is like Ganesh and all these, Indra or whatever. They’re not Supreme Lord. They have material bodies [Laughs]. So they have more power than us, because Supreme Lord gives them special powers. So the moon or the sun, the devatas, they have special powers, greater than us, but they’re not the Supreme Lord [Laughs].
7.) Maharaj, like while we were making Govardhan in our temple, so we use halwa and all, many things. But we were discussing like in India, in most of the temples, they use cow dung and make halwa. And they were like, no, no one uses halwa to make it. So is there any method or it’s just like a bhava, we can consider it?
Well, there’s two ways. One is the cow dung, but you’ll see in many temples they have a pile of laddus, a mountain of laddus in front of the deity also. So they do have both things. This is called the annakuta, pile of food [Laughs].
Devotee 1: So it’s just a bhava that matters.
Devotee 2: And rice also.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: And rice, yes. That may started with Madhavendra Puri when he discovered the deity and then they had a big festival and they had piles of rice [Laughs]. That’s start of the mountain of rice.
8.) In this Damodarastakam prayers, idaṁ te vapur nātha gopāla-bālaṁ, so we pray that the baby form of Krishna should manifest in our heart. On the other hand in ISKCON, we try to worship in a dasa bhava, but we motivate ourselves that we should get the love of a Gopi. How the baby form and how the Gopi, how this, isn’t it like a mixture. How to manage like this?
So, Krishna is the personification of all rasas [Laughs]. One of the rasas is called vatsalya. So, this is where mother Yasoda and Nanda take Krishna as their child. And they like to feed Krishna, dress Krishna, play with Krishna like a small child [Laughs]. So therefore, this Damodara pastime took place when Krishna was a small child. Mother Yasoda wanted to punish Him. So that’s vatsalya rasa. So, that rasa is very prominent in the Vallabha sampradaya. That’s in Gujarat, where a lot of people follow the baby Krishna [Laughs] and it’s that type of rasa.
But you could have dasya, like a servant of Krishna. You could be like friend of Krishna, Cowherd boy, friendly with Krishna, playing with Krishna. Or you could be madhurya rasa, like the Gopis with Krishna. These are other choices. So, Lord Caitanya emphasizes madhurya rasa, especially Radha and Krishna, because this is the most intense. But not everyone may want that [Laughs]. If they choose vatsalya or dasya or sakhya also, that’s okay [Laughs]. So, in spiritual world, we have all the elders, they’re in vatsalya rasa with Krishna, including Nanda, Yasoda. We have so many cowherd boys, same age as Krishna, they’re all in sakhya rasa [Laughs]. So we can aspire for any rasa with Krishna [Laughs].
Devotee: So for example, we are getting education from you guys, so, and you inspire us to be in that madhurya rasa, but anyhow we don’t feel that connect and we go into vatsalya. Isn’t it a crime?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, no, no. No [Laughs].
Devotee: Because if Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave to the six Goswamis and one of the Goswamis, his deity is Radha Damodara. So I was like confusing [Laughs].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So actually in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes, He had one devotee who was devoted to Ramacandra. So then Lord Caitanya said, well, you should worship Radha and Krishna, this is the highest rasa [Laughs]. So, Murari Gupta got very confused because he should follow Lord Caitanya’s order and he thought about it all night and he come back to Lord Caitanya and said, no, I’m not gonna do it [Laughs]. I cannot give up Ramacandra [Laughs]. And Lord Caitanya was very pleased with that answer.
Anupama, who was a brother of Rupa and Sanatana Goswami, he also was worshiper of Rama [Laughs]. Among the followers of Lord Caitanya, there was one group who were all on sakhya rasa [Laughs]. So, actually they were identifying themselves as previously in Vrindavan as cowherd boys. So, they are all in sakhya rasa with Krishna.
Devotee: Like we should aspire for madhurya rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: If it inspires you to [Laughs]. If you like sakhya rasa or vatsalya more, then you may go in that direction also.
Devotee: It is told like, it is the topmost rasa.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, it’s the most intense. But not, everybody in Vrindavan is not like that. Nanda and Yasoda aren’t madhurya rasa. Cowherd boys are not madhurya rasa even though they know it’s so exalted.
9.) In madhurya rasa, there are so many lilas, where Krishna heard the gopi geet and the gopis told that they were being enjoyed by Krishna and there is the description of how they are physically being enjoyed by Krishna. But when I personally read that, I don’t know, like it’s my false ego or something that I think I’m in male body, I don’t get connected to that thing, because there are some things that I can’t express, because I am not in a female body for now. But I want to be inspired to be doing that madhurya rasa. How can I [Laughs]?
[Laughs] Well, you cannot force also. If it naturally develops, fine. If it doesn’t, then you go for sakhya rasa or something else [Laughs].
Devotee 1: Yeah, but it’s like a lust, desire to be that, to get highest Krishna. So…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, it’s also artificial if you force yourself to do it. So, just as I said, many associates of Lord Caitanya, they were in sakhya rasa. They didn’t try to aspire for madhurya. They were in sakhya rasa.
Devotee 2: But Maharaj, this, like he’s saying, it’s like everybody thinks that if I’m aspiring for madhurya rasa that is best. In ISKCON also, everybody.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, that’s what Lord Caitanya says [Laughs].
Devotee 2: Yeah, so, but from where that is coming?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, it’s the highest rasa, definitely. The most intense. It’s not that everybody will have it, because Krishna manifests, you know, five primary rasas, not one [Laughs]. So, then there’s obviously going to be different jivas in those different rasas.
Devotee 2: Yeah, but when we are inside, we are sitting with devotees and then if somebody says, oh, I’m aspiring for sakhya rasa, then devotees say, no, no, you should aspire for madhurya rasa.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs]
Devotee 2: That is a problem na. Devotees say like that.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay. Well, you have to be strong in your convictions, I guess [Laughs].
10.) I do chanting everyday, but I want to ask like, let us say one person is there who is chanting two rounds with all of the bhava and putting all his emotions in it, but other person is chanting four rounds, just chanting rounds, I do not know if there are bhava or not, which one is like greater? Is just chanting name is more important or it does not have to have the feelings at the start?
So, ideally both [Laughs], do both [Laughs], do more intensely [Laughs]. And doing something is better than nothing, and if you do something and you do with devotion very good, if you can do more with devotion, better.
Devotee: I may say something to that, I was thinking along those lines as well. The Vaishnavas are always saying one thing that is very much the same instruction. When we sit and chant, we have a goal. We do not just chant the chant. And the goal is to send some tears and to receive the tears in return. And in that way, the goal is to feel a spiritual, emotional connection. This is the explanation that I understand.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, we know that even accidental chanting the name, you can destroy your karmas etc, like Ajamila. But if you want prema, then you do have to have some devotion there [Laughs].
11.) A follow-up question on that. Okay, now I understood that putting bhava is like I will be more able to connect with God. But how I know which kind of bhava I should put and how I will be able to more focus on getting the bhavas?
So, if we get knowledge from scripture and we understand what pure bhakti is, we see the example of the great devotees and then of course, of the people of Vrindavan themselves, then we get some idea of the proper direction.
Devotee: Maharaj, I am chanting on the train [Laughs].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs] Something better than nothing, but of course if we have attention and devotion, it is the best [Laughs].
Devotee: Yes, but if not possible.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, you can chant in any condition. When you are dying, when you are getting born in the womb, falling off a cliff, or whatever [Laughs]. All sorts of conditions you can do it, but the best, of course, if we have attention and devotion, that is going to give us prema [Laughs].
12.) On this one, Maharaj ji, a follow-up question. Since a long time back, while I was chanting, at the start of the day I decide, for example, I have to chant x rounds today. So while chanting, there is a thought that keeps coming in my mind, am I just chanting to complete these x rounds? And this thought disturbs me and I lose my focus on chanting. But I don’t know how can I correct this. But the thought keeps on coming every day, am I today chanting just for completion of the x rounds?
So, it’s always good to make vows. But we see that, [Not clear] the Goswami Astaka says they [Laughs] are counting, they are counting the number and they are doing it [Laughs]. And we see they are also using beads to count [Laughs]. So, definitely nothing wrong with it and it is also recommended. But we cannot just depend on numbers also [Laughs]. So we also have to have the quality, so the two things have to go together.
Devotee: Because I have heard somewhere, like someone was saying, every thought in the mind comes from Krishna, and then I was like, why Krishna wants this [Laughs] thought to come in my mind? And I was like, no, I am disturbed now, so again I was just trying to forget and focus.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Prabhupada said that Krishna says I am a source of everything, forgetfulness, knowledge [Laughs]. That’s also maya sometimes [Laughs]. And of course, in Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna says, yes, it is a little difficult to control the mind, and then Krishna says, of course it is, but you have to practice.
13.) Maharaj, what is the difference between chanting on beads and counter?
Well, it is all counting.
Devotee: So?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, only if you have Tulasi, that is sacred, so that is better than a piece of metal.
Devotee: Yeah.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs]. So ultimately, no rules for chanting. Any time, any place, any condition, pure, impure, whatever [Laughs]. But with our intelligence, then we also choose what is favorable.
14.) Maharaj ji, from where does this chanting come? Is there anyone who wrote this? And what is the meaning of this mahamantra?
Of course, this nama means name of the Lord, could be Govinda, Gopala, Vishnu anything. Just say the name, that’s nama [Laughs]. So, of course, Lord Caitanya also just chanted like that, but then he also had this particular combination of Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.
Devotee 1: Krishna Krishna Krishna Krishna he! That is also?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, yeah. Or Govinda, Gopala, Rama, Sri Madhusudana, all these, these are names, you know. So that comes from the kali–santarana upanishad. So in that, it records those particular names. So, those names are not mentioned in Caitanya Caritamrta, but they are mentioned in Caitanya Bhagavat. So the Goswamis and others after that, meaning they were using that for their japa.
Devotee 2: So this Hare Krishna mahamantra pattern was…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: From upanishad.
Devotee 2: From upanishad. Okay, so they followed that.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. So there is some sruti vedic authority behind it [Laughs].
Devotee 1: And in India, it is other way round.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Actually, some of the versions have it the other way round.
Devotee 1: Hare Rama, Hare Rama is first.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, same upanishad, but different edition. So it is both ways [Laughs].
Devotee 2: So, so if we just change the composition, if we say Hare Rama first, so is there any rules for Hare Krishna mahamantra?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Can be done, but we follow Lord Caitanya and His Goswamis, so we do it the other way. But there is no difference ultimately.
Devotee 2: No difference. Same?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Same.
Devotee 2: I have read somewhere, it is a vedic mantra, so it is bound by some rules. So that is why it is twisted.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It is said they changed it like that. But even some editions of the upanishad are reversed also, so [Laughs] we don’t know [Laughs].
Devotee 1: So if we repeat Hare Rama, Hare Krishna, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, So if we repeat, repeat, repeat, then it becomes same.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Same [Laughs]. It is like mara [Laughs].
Devotee 1: Mara and Rama [Laughs].
15.) The Govardhan, Maharaj, we worship like, Govardhan is Krishna also, and he is a devotee also. So how to understand this?
Yeah, because Govardhan acts as a servant, because He, Krishna plays on him, uses him for his bed, and his cave, and this and that, and whatever, he takes the minerals, whatever, so he is serving in that way. But then Krishna also expanded Himself and then He took all the offerings and they were offered to Govardhan, and Krishna became Govardhan [Laughs].
16.) His one question was, sometime back he was asking, How I came to this material world? How I came here?
How, how? Because of ignorance.
Devotee 1: Because of?
Other Devotees: Ignorance.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: There is no beginning. Anadir bahirmukha. Previous universe, previous universe, previous universe, previous, previous universe, you can’t trace [Laughs] out a beginning to your beginning in the material world. Karma and ignorance has no beginning.
Devotee 2: But Maharaj, in spiritual world there is no ignorance right, so, when we say this ignorance, this should be in the material world. So my start may be in the material world only.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No beginning. No start.
Devotee 2: No start, no beginning [Laughs].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Because prakriti itself has no beginning. It is also eternal. And karma also has no beginning.
Devotee 1: Maharaj, it’s not like, that we are given the choice to choose and then we choose material world?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Where is that choice?
Devotee 1: I think at some point, they gave us the choice that then we choose material world and then come here.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No. We always had a choice. Our choice is also anadi [Laughs]. Everyday of Brahma, Lord comes as Krishna and so many avatars. Bhagavad Gita is there. Bhagavatam is there. Everything is there. Manus are there. Sages are there. Narada is there. So the offering is there all the time. The choice is always there.
Devotee 2: So, what about that, we say, there’s an explanation that, we fall down from spiritual world.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, we can take that in the sense that, it’s not natural for us to be in the material world, because it’s like a fish out of water and the jiva’s natural position is with Supreme Lord. So, in that sense we are in a fallen state.
Devotee 1: Maharaj, means we don’t have knowledge about ourself and Krishna from beginning means we have ignorance of ourself and about Krishna from the beginning?
Devotee 2: Soul has no beginning.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, anadi. No beginning.
Devotee 2: No beginning [Laughs].
Devotee 1: So, we don’t know Krishna also and ourself?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Karma is anadi. That is the whole definition given in beginning of Bhagavad Gita.
17.) Maharaj, and about Salagram, the question that he asked. Is it necessary that we should have Salagram? Devotees say you should have Salagram.
Well, we don’t have to, you know. Gopala Bhatta had a Salagram that turned into Radha Raman deity [Laughs].
18.) What does it mean, Salagram?
Okay [Laughs]. Do you have a picture of it, Salagram? Salagram is found in a special river in Nepal, the Gandaki river. So not every stone is a Salagram there, some of the stones are. So those stones are worshipped, just like a deity. And they are considered like Vishnu. So, you can put Him on the altar and worship and offer, whatever.
Devotee: Like Jagannath also?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, like that [Laughs]. Jagannath, of course has got a form and got eyes. But this is just a stone, like a kind of smooth stone with a few holes in it. So of course, sometimes you put eyes on them whatever [Laughs]. But originally they don’t have, no markings except may be some holes in them.
Devotee: I heard that it has some relation to the fossils.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, they often have these fossils, ammonite, ammonite fossils [Laughs] in them. So, like the Sudarshan ones are ammonite fossils. Ammonite fossils. But not all of them will be like that. Some of them are like that. Some are completely black.
19.) Maharaj ji, why are we not doing Salagram Tulasi vivah in our temple?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: What’s that?
Devotee 1: ISKCON Temple, Salagram and Tulasi vivah.
Devotee 2: Tulasi vivah? Like in India, they do Tulasi vivah. So Tulasi and Salagram marriage they do. But in ISKCON we don’t do that.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Some temples do, some people don’t. It’s mentioned in Hari Bhakti Vilasa a little bit, not like the [Not clear] at the end. And probably the reason is that Prabhupada didn’t start that, so nobody else followed [Laughs] .
20.) Maharaj ji, there is a line by Rupa Goswami like one should remain in Vrindavan for a short time and then return back as soon as possible. What does that mean?
Of course, we have the opposite rule in Nectar of Devotion also, that you should live in the holy dham [Laughs]. So, the reason for saying don’t stay too long is because people also could commit offenses. Of course, if you are advanced, then you can live there.
21.) Maharaj, there was one discussion going about Radha kunda appearance day. Some say that it was in karthika.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, it’s not.
Devotee: But it’s in march or april.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: They have a celebration in karthik, but it’s not the appearance actually. It’s in chaitra month after killing Arishtasura.
22.) I want to confirm one thing. In Bhagavad Gita chapter 11, the universal form, so in the 9th sloka when Sanjaya describes to Dhritarashtra about the universal features of Krishna. So it is in the purport, it’s told that nobody can see the universal form of Krishna until Krishna allows Himself. And He gives vision to Arjuna so that he can absorb, he can see that vision. But the way Sanjaya explains that he also got that vision that he also can see the universal form. Was that true?
I believe he also says that he got special eyes to see by the mercy of the Lord. Of course, even that vision is not the supreme vision. To see Krishna in His original form, that’s better [Laughs]. So the demons cannot see neither [Laughs].
Devotee: So, when Krishna gave Arjuna the vision, actually..
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: He gave him a lower vision [Laughs]. Universal form is material form actually [Laughs].
23.) It’s told that there are different types of yoga and we have to perform the bhakti yoga and that’s why it’s, Bhagavad Gita is explained. So, and it’s told that we should put ourself in the shoes of Arjuna and learn about Bhagavad Gita. I think Dhritarashtra was also blind, so he can’t see but he was fortunate enough to listen to the Bhagavad Gita because of the conversation between Krishna and Arjuna. So he was also getting the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita through Sanjaya online. But for me personally, sometimes, I read this something but I am not able to implement it practically. I don’t know if there will be mode of ignorance. So sometimes I feel like I am trying to be Arjuna but isn’t it I am a Dhritarashtra only at the end. And what happens to the Arjuna because in the middle Arjuna told that he wants to leave this world and want to go for bhakti. Krishna told him to not do bhakti but at the end He established Himself as the true to the Bhakti yoga. What happens after the war? Did Arjuna went on this like they do start chanting or they start worshipping Krishna? What happened to them?
At the end of Bhagavad Gita, it is said don’t teach this Bhagavad Gita to an envious person [Laughs]. Or a faithless person [Laughs]. So unfortunately, Dhritarashtra was one who did not have faith [Laughs]. Therefore he could not understand. Till the end of the war he could not understand [Laughs]. So, really covered by ignorance. Now of course, if we have a little faith then we can understand something. We got more faith we understand more. The more we advance in bhakti, the more we can follow everything properly. As for Arjuna of course, he is an eternal devotee. So, it is not that he had to become a devotee or whatever [Laughs]. So, his confusion or so called ignorance was not real ignorance. That’s arrangement of Krishna Himself. And his devotion was to fight for Krishna [Laughs]. That’s his devotion [Laughs]. So, he followed Krishna’s order. That was his perfection. And of course, all the time he is thinking of Krishna.
Devotee: As this was fought in dwapara yuga. It is said in dwapara yuga the main practice of worshipping was the deity worship. And Krishna was Himself present at that time. So was Arjuna also doing some kind of deity worship?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, great and better than deity worship is they have Krishna in person [Laughs]. That is better [Laughs]. Just like we could say, well people of Vrindavan, did they do deity worship? Oh, they got Krishna Himself [Laughs] and they were serving Him directly [Laughs].
Devotee: But they were doing right? Katyayani puja?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, of course, they have, they have, they have. Even Nanda has a deity of Vishnu in his temple etc. They have, but basically it was even better to just serve Krishna [Laughs].
24.) Prabhuji, regarding the chanting, like, he also gets one thought. Similarly, I also got, while doing chanting, I got thought of, when I’m chanting, I think about Krishna. And I think that everyone is calling Him, everyone is asking Him to see, like show His face or appear in front of me. So, similarly, if someone is calling me at the same time, so, I get irritated, I will get restless. So, similarly, while chanting, if I’m calling Him, does He become restless? So, sometimes I like, I stop the chanting, and after I think, like, is this maya or is this my, like…
Well, we see from the example of Ajamila, where he chanted the name of Narayana, not with devotion at all, to mean his son. Lord was pleased. He destroyed all of his karmas. He sent his Vishnudutas there to save him from hell [Laughs]. So, because Krishna has all powers, without effort, He can respond to all the jivas in the material world and it’s no big effort for Him [Laughs]. And He’s very eager to do that.
Devotees: HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!