Text 18
uddhavaḥ sātyakiś caiva
vyajane paramādbhute
vikīryamāṇaḥ kusumai
reje madhu-patiḥ pathi
Translation
Uddhava and Sātyaki began to fan the Lord with decorated fans, and the Lord, as the master of Madhu, seated on scattered flowers, commanded them along the road.
Text 19
aśrūyantāśiṣaḥ satyās
tatra tatra dvijeritāḥ
nānurūpānurūpāś ca
nirguṇasya guṇātmanaḥ
Translation
It was being heard here and there that the benedictions being paid to Kṛṣṇa were neither befitting nor unbefitting because they were all for the Absolute, who was now playing the part of a human being.
Purport
At places there were sounds of Vedic benediction aiming at the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The benedictions were fitting in the sense that the Lord was playing the part of a human being, as if a cousin of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, but they were also unfitting because the Lord is absolute and has nothing to do with any kind of material relativities. He is nirguṇa, or there are no material qualities in Him, but He is full of transcendental qualities. In the transcendental world there is nothing contradictory, whereas in the relative world everything has its opposite. In the relative world white is the opposite conception of black, but in the transcendental world there is no distinction between white and black. Therefore the sounds of benedictions uttered by the learned brāhmaṇas here and there appear to be contradictory in relation with the Absolute Person, but when they are applied to the Absolute Person they lose all contradiction and become transcendental. One example may clear this idea. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is sometimes described as a thief. He is very famous amongst His pure devotees as the Mākhana-cora. He used to steal butter from the houses of neighbors at Vṛndāvana in His early age. Since then He is famous as a thief. But in spite of His being famous as a thief, He is worshiped as a thief, whereas in the mundane world a thief is punished and is never praised. Since He is the Absolute Personality of Godhead, everything is applicable to Him, and still in spite of all contradictions He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj :
So this describes how various people were praising and giving blessings to Krishna. And it describes that such blessings and praises were both fitting and unfitting.
And why? Because Krishna is nirguna. But at the same time he is gunatmana, he is full of qualities. So if we praise a person, we praise him because of his qualities.
If there are no qualities, we cannot praise. This question of course comes up in the 10th canto in the prayers of the personified Vedas. So, proposition is made, the supreme is nirguna.
How can scriptures describe something which is nirguna? So this is a valid question. Brahman has no qualities so you can never describe it. And the Vedas themselves say this Brahman is beyond words and mind.
Yet we accept the Vedas as truth. How is it possible? Vedas are using words to describe Brahman or Supreme Lord. Of course, simple answer is, well, yes, supreme is nirguna, no material qualities, but as Bhagavan he has spiritual qualities so we can describe those.
But then the question arises, yes, we can describe the Lord’s spiritual qualities, but to do that we use material words. So however I describe the Lord’s qualities, I am going to use material words which have material meaning to them. So if I say Krishna has lotus eyes and I think of a material eye and I think of a lotus which is a material flower, I am not thinking something spiritual.
So therefore if the Vedas describe the Lord in various ways, actually it is as false as using material words. However the answer is, the Vedas may look like they have material words, but the words actually are spiritual. Of course, just as the words of the Vedas are spiritual, so the names of the Lord are also spiritual even though they look like material sounds.
So how is that possible? Normally we use the word that is material, then that may not be spiritual. How is that possible? So the answer is that the Lord has Shakti. Of course he has the material Shakti which means material words, material things, etc.
But he also has spiritual Shakti. By that Shakti the Lord manifests his spiritual form, his spiritual qualities, his spiritual activities and his spiritual names.
So when the scriptures describe the form, qualities and activities of the Lord, they are actually spiritual sounds. The same words of course are used in the material world, but when they are authorized like Vedas, then they are spiritual sounds. At the same time, if those same words come out of the mouth of a non-believer or non-Vaishnava, they become poison, they are no longer spiritual.
So in this way, we can say they are spiritual, but no spiritual effect depending on who they come from. So therefore, when we praise the Lord with different descriptive terms, then because it applies to the Lord, it is no longer material sound, as long as we have devotion.
The name is very astonishing, even if it comes from the mouth of a non-believer, it still has Shakti. Ajamila uttered the name, it destroyed all of his karmas.
Shishupala uttered the name of Krishna, it purified him also, and he was demon. So sound is very mysterious, it may look material, but actually it can be spiritual depending on what sound we have. So it is possible to glorify the Lord for His qualities, His forms and activities, because actually He does have spiritual qualities and activities, and if we use the words properly, they become spiritual also.
Of course, even if they are spiritual, there is a little problem. We can describe the Lord, but we can never describe Him completely. So in that sense, we can sincerely describe the Lord, and it is suitable, because yes, the Lord has qualities like that, but at the same time, it is limited, and the Lord is unlimited, we can never describe His qualities completely, so in that sense, it is not suitable.
Therefore, it is said, even Shesha, who is a form of the Lord, with thousands of mouths, can speak forever and glorify the Lord, it is never complete. So, in this way, even the Supreme Lord looks at Himself, and He is also astonished, He can find no end to His qualities and beauty also. He looks at His reflection on the wall, on the jeweled wall in Dwaraka, and says, who is that, so beautiful.
When the cowherd boys were running into the mouth of Agasura, Krishna said, stop, stop, don’t go in, this is a big demon. And then Krishna thought, why aren’t they listening to me, they are not hearing, they keep going, I say stop, stop, they are not stopping, they are running into the mouth of the demon. And then Krishna realized, oh, it is my Lila Shakti doing this.
And he also became astonished. So, spiritually, there is no limit. And no matter how much we see or describe the Lord and His qualities, etc., it is limited in one sense.
However, the Jiva, to his capacity, can have an experience of the Lord, and this is also satisfying. This, of course, we can say is also the mercy of the Lord. Even though the Jiva cannot completely, perfectly perceive the Lord, it is satisfying by the Lord’s mercy.
In the last part of this verse, it says, the Lord is nirguna, but also He plays the role as if He has gunas. So, He has no material qualities, but He has qualities that also look material. And it is because of that, that also the devotees establish an intimate relationship with Krishna.
The people of Vrindavan think, oh, Krishna is one of us, He is another cowherd . It looks like they are thinking in terms of varnas, ashramas, cowherds, warriors, sages, etc. So, they think of Krishna in terms of gunas.
Of course, we know that these gunas are not material gunas. But, from the point of view of past times, yes, Krishna is Vaishya, He is a cowherd . And the people of Vrindavan think of themselves as cowherds.
So, it looks like material qualities, big appearance. But, actually, it is not material. These qualities manifest simply for past times.
And thus, the qualities in Dwaraka are different. Krishna acts like a Kshatriya. So, according to the situation, those gunas can also change.
So, they look like material qualities because we have similar things in the material world. But, actually, they are not. So, in that sense, it is nirguna.
The Lord is nirguna. So, of course, the scriptures praise the Lord as being nirguna, having no material qualities. But, the same scriptures also praise the Lord as being full of all wonderful qualities.
So, both statements are true. No material qualities at all. And all spiritual qualities.
So, we can praise the Lord, but we should be careful that when we praise Him, we don’t attribute those qualities as material. Krishna may be powerful, He may be strong, He may be merciful, etc. These are not material qualities.
They manifest from Krishna’s Swaroop. And therefore, they are absolute, not relative. All qualities in the material world are relative things.
And all qualities arise from Prakriti. Prakriti is unconscious, Acit Shakti of the Lord. The qualities of the Lord arise from the Acit Shakti.
So, because the Acit Shakti also arises from the Lord, there can be similarity. But we should never confuse the two categories. It is due to confusion of these characters that people will criticize Krishna.
So, as Prabhupada points out in the Purport, Krishna acts as a thief. So, the materialists will criticize Krishna. He is a thief.
So, in the material world, most people will criticize the thief. But in the spiritual world, that same standard does not apply. The thief in the spiritual world is there with a completely different purpose.
And it is all part of spiritual bliss. So, in reading scripture, we should also be careful that we don’t attribute the qualities of the Lord as something material. It is because of that that people who have no faith, when they read Bhagavatham, come out with a different meaning.
So, the devotee should very carefully distinguish between material and spiritual qualities.
Q & A
1) It seems that in spiritual world there is varnashrama but that is in absolute platform, but in material world it is in material platform but look likes they are same?
So, as I mentioned, those things are in the spiritual world only as part of pastimes.
Of course, apart from varnashrama, we can say, well, why are there trees in the spiritual world? They don’t need trees. They don’t need water. They don’t need cows.
There is no hunger. There is no thirst. Nothing is there.
So, why do you need food? Everything is perfect. Why do we have to decorate with flowers or jewels or whatever? Why do they have houses? So, the answer is, all of those things are there for pastimes. If we keep asking the question, why, why, why, why, then we will end up with Brahman.
Nothing. No forms. Nothing.
So, that Brahman is also Bhagavan. Bhagavan has form, qualities and activities. And form, qualities and activities exist in a dham. And then the dham will have mountains and rivers and houses and trees, etc. And then there will be devotees there. And there will be different types of devotees.
And they will seem to have different work, different professions even. So, they take up these roles that look like varnashrama. Ultimately it’s not. But therefore, pastimes. So, in the material world, of course, the varnas and ashramas have material functions. One works to get food to support your body.
It’s not necessary in the spiritual world. You don’t have to work to support your body. So, the varnas are there for other reasons, for spiritual reasons, for pastimes only.
2) Sometimes we see more as when Krishna becomes like a helpless, when his lila shakti makes different arrangements to increase the pastimes of the Lord. But something Krishna also cannot understand is lila shakti. It seems that lila shakti is more powerful than Krishna, although there is no difference between Krishna and his shakti?
So, of course, shakti, by definition, is always controlled by Shaktiman. Of course, the jivas are also controlled by the Supreme Lord, their jiva shakti. But the Lord gives the jivas some independence.
But by the independence they end up conditioned to the material world and suffering. So, the Lord also gives some independence to his cit shakti. But no possibility of falling in illusion or anything.
It’s only there to increase the bliss. So, those shaktis will do remarkable things which will surprise even Krishna. Now, just as we have the ultimate shakti, Hladini shakti.
And that becomes Radharani. And Radharani acts independent of Krishna. But ultimately it’s his shakti.
3) Holy name emanating from a non Vaishnava is poisonous and the name chanted by an impure person like Ajamila has effect. Can you please explain that? Because we are also chanting. We are not at the top. How effective is the holy name ?
Oh. Well, the name of the Lord, of all different things related to the Lord, is the most powerful.
And even if it’s chanted by a person accidentally, it has power. Mantras and Vedas are not like that. Spiritual, but accidentally you chant them, no effect.
However, the effect of the name also will increase, depending on our attention and lack of offence and devotion. Thus, chanting accidentally, you can get karmas destroyed. But, if we chant with purpose, actually intentionally, but mixed, we get some result, we can get liberation also.
But, if we chant purely, then we get prema. So, depending on the attitude, mentality of the person, or disposition of the person, they will get different effects, but nevertheless, name of Krishna has effect in all cases.
4) Pure devotees qualities are compared to a sample of Krishna. So, when we see Krishna, what we see Krishna in the spiritual world, that sample is seen in earth. The qualities of the pure devotees, do they arrive from Krishna’s cit-shakti or acit-shakti?
So, it is said in Nectar of Devotion, first part of Nectar of Devotion, that one of the unique qualities of bhakti is subhadha, second quality out of six qualities. Which means, produces auspiciousness. Which means, it produces auspicious qualities in the devotee.
Of course, we can say, okay, it makes them pious, merciful, etc. But, we should not think that the qualities that are produced in the devotee are material. Why would bhakti give something material? Of course, it can give you material punya, etc.
But, more important is spiritual things. Bhakti is spiritual in nature. It can give you material benefits like karma yoga, it can give you liberation.
But, best thing is spiritual things. So, through bhakti, spiritual qualities will manifest. Of course, we can say, good material qualities can also manifest, but these are all secondary things.
If we become attached to sattva qualities, this becomes bondage for us. If we develop spiritual qualities, they become assistance for our pastimes with Krishna. So, the spiritual qualities in the devotee may look like material qualities.
But, we can say the same thing about Krishna. Krishna has lots of qualities. They may look material also.
He has 64 qualities. It looks like they are material qualities. But, no, they are spiritual qualities.
So, the spiritual qualities that manifest in a devotee are there to assist him in pastimes with the Lord.
5) How do we understand Krishna’s stealing of the gopis’ garments as a spiritual pastime? And, what is the lesson that we should learn that we should not take bath being undressed? Or, is there any specific lesson that we should take from that? Stealing the gopis’ garments? What do we learn from that?
So, of course, all the pastimes, all the activities of Krishna are spiritual. So, those young gopis who were unmarried desired to have Krishna as their husband. So, they were doing kathyayani vratha.
So, through that pastime, he tested those gopis and then he promised, your desire will come true. They showed their devotion to Krishna and thus Krishna fulfilled their desire and then they later married Krishna.
6) While we think and glorify Krishna in the material world, how can we perceive in our mind that glorifying words are actually spiritual words? We are trying to glorify through the material words. But how we ourselves can perceive that those are actually spiritual things that are glorifying Krishna.
You can glorify Krishna and list all the wrong qualities, the wrong form, have a different form for Krishna, etc. So, we have to follow scripture. You can glorify Krishna and list all the wrong qualities, the wrong form, have a different form for Krishna, etc.
So, we have to follow scripture. Glorification may not be skillful. That does not matter.
What matters is the purity of the devotion. To make things simpler, simplest possible glorification of Krishna is to utter His name. In doing so, we avoid aparadha.
We should also rise above Namabhas and come to Sudhanama. With Sudhanama, then you can get to Prema.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam Ki.. Jai ! Srila Prabhupad Ki.. Jai !!