jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 10 Verse 14-16.
ŚB 11.10.14-16
athaiṣām karma-kartṝṇāṁ
bhoktṝṇāṁ sukha-duḥkhayoḥ
nānātvam atha nityatvaṁ
loka-kālāgamātmanām
manyase sarva-bhāvānāṁ
saṁsthā hy autpattikī yathā
tat-tad-ākṛti-bhedena
jāyate bhidyate ca dhīḥ
evam apy aṅga sarveṣāṁ
dehināṁ deha-yogataḥ
kālāvayavataḥ santi
bhāvā janmādayo ’sakṛt
Synonyms
atha — thus; eṣām — of those; karma — fruitive activities; kartṝṇām — of the performers; bhoktṝṇām — of the enjoyers; sukha-duḥkhayoḥ — of happiness and distress; nānātvam — variegatedness; atha — moreover; nityatvam — perpetual existence; loka — of the materialistic world; kāla — material time; āgama — Vedic literatures recommending fruitive activities; ātmanām — and the self; manyase — if you think; sarva — of all; bhāvānām — material objects; saṁsthā — the actual situation; hi — certainly; autpattikī — original; yathā — as; tat-tat — of all different objects; ākṛti — of their forms; bhedena — by the difference; jāyate — is born; bhidyate — and changes; ca — also; dhīḥ — intelligence or knowledge; evam — thus; api — even though; aṅga — O Uddhava; sarveṣām — of all; dehinām — embodied beings; deha-yogataḥ — by contact with a material body; kāla — of time; avayavataḥ — by the portions or limbs; santi — there are; bhāvāḥ — states of existence; janma — birth; ādayaḥ — and so on; asakṛt — constantly.
Translation
My dear Uddhava, I have thus explained to you perfect knowledge. There are philosophers, however, who challenge My conclusion. They state that the natural position of the living entity is to engage in fruitive activities, and they see him as the enjoyer of the happiness and unhappiness that accrue from his own work. According to this materialistic philosophy, the world, time, the revealed scriptures and the self are all variegated and eternal, existing as a perpetual flow of transformations. Knowledge, moreover, cannot be one or eternal, because it arises from the different and changing forms of objects; thus knowledge itself is always subject to change. Even if you accept such a philosophy, My dear Uddhava, there will still be perpetual birth, death, old age and disease, since all living entities must accept a material body subject to the influence of time.
Purport
In this verse, according to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Lord Kṛṣṇa speaks the following to Uddhava. “My dear Uddhava, I have clearly established the actual goal of life in the instructions I have just imparted to you. There are those, however, who challenge My conclusion, especially the followers of Jaimini Kavi. If you are favorable to their understanding and thus do not accept My instructions, then kindly hear the following explanation.
“According to the followers of Jaimini, the living entity is originally and naturally a performer of fruitive activities, and his happiness and distress are derived from the fruits of his own work. The world in which the living entities find their enjoyment, the time during which they enjoy, the revealed scriptures that explain the means for achieving enjoyment, and the subtle bodies through which the living entities experience enjoyment all exist not only in manifold variety but also eternally.
“The living entity need not develop detachment from material sense gratification, either by seeing the temporariness of individual material objects and situations or by seeing the material world as an illusory creation (māyā). According to such materialistic philosophy, material objects such as garlands, sandalwood or beautiful women are temporary in specific manifestations but perpetually exist through the natural flow of creation and destruction. In other words, although a particular woman’s form is temporary, there will eternally be beautiful women within the material world. Thus, by carefully executing fruitive rituals according to religious scriptures, one can maintain enjoyable contact with women and wealth life after life. In this way one’s sense gratification will be eternal.
“The Jaimini philosophers further say that there never was a time when the world did not exist as it does today, which implies that there is no supreme controller who has created it. They claim that the arrangement of this world is real and appropriate and thus is not illusory. Moreover, they say that there is no eternal knowledge of an original perpetual form of the soul. In fact, they say, knowledge arises not from some absolute truth but from the differences among material objects. Knowledge therefore is not eternal and is subject to change. The assumption hidden in this statement is that there is no spirit soul who possesses eternal, constant knowledge of a single, unchanging reality. Rather, the nature of consciousness or knowledge is that it undergoes constant transformation. They state, however, that eternality is not refuted by the perpetually transforming nature of consciousness. Consciousness perpetually exists, they say, but not in the same form.
“Thus, the followers of Jaimini conclude that the transformation of knowledge does not negate its eternality; rather, they state that knowledge eternally exists within the perpetual nature of its transformation. They therefore naturally come to the path of regulated sense gratification rather than the path of renunciation, for in the state of mukti, or liberation, the living entity would not have any material senses, and thus the transformation of material understanding would not be possible. Such philosophers consider that the achievement of an unchanging state of mukti would stunt or paralyze the natural activity of the living entity and thus would not be in his self-interest. The path of nivṛtti (aiming toward renunciation and transcendence of the material world) is naturally not interesting to such materialistic philosophers. Accepting for argument’s sake the validity of such materialistic philosophy, one can easily demonstrate that the path of regulated sense gratification brings many unwanted and miserable results to the living entity. Therefore even from a materialistic viewpoint, detachment is desirable. Material time is divided into different sections such as days, weeks, months and years, and by material time the living entity is repeatedly forced to undergo the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease. That such real miseries occur everywhere throughout the universe is well known.” In this way, states Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Lord Kṛṣṇa has pointed out the defect of materialistic philosophy to Uddhava.
We may further elaborate that if one falsely accepts the atheistic philosophy of Jaimini and his innumerable modern followers. then the living entity perpetually remains entangled in the anguish of birth, death, old age and disease. This bogus, atheistic philosophy encourages material gratification as the only logical goal of life, but the living entity will inevitably commit mistakes in the execution of regulated sense gratification and eventually go to hell. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa, personally tells Uddhava that this materialistic philosophy is false and irrelevant to the actual self-interest of the living entity.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So in these verses, Krishna is explaining some philosophers or some philosophies which do not agree with what He has just spoken. So previously, there was a whole discussion of how the soul is different from the body. And if we get rid of the ignorance, we can destroy the gross and subtle bodies and get liberated from path of birth and death. So this is clearly stated in the Vedic literatures. However, there are philosophers who also study the Vedic literatures and they come to different conclusions. In fact, we have people following Kapila, the Sankhya philosophers, we have the logicians following Gautama, the people who believe in atoms following Vaisesika, and the people practicing yoga following Patanjali. And then we have the followers of Jaimini who actually follow Karma-kanda. So Karma-kanda is actually a section of the Vedas.
In each Veda, there are four sections. So for instance, the Sama Veda has a section called Aranyakas. Another section called Brahmanas. So these two sections are classed as Karma-kanda. There is another section, the Upanishads, classed as Jnana-kanda. Then there is another section, which we call the Samhita section, with all the different prayers in it, like Purusha Sukta. This is called the Upasana kanda. So each Veda will have a Karma-kanda section, a Jnana-kanda section, and an Upasana kanda section. So when we speak of Karma-kanda, we shouldn’t think that it is not part of the Vedas. It is part of the Vedas. And each Veda has a Karma-kanda section. So the proper understanding is that, that section is for people who have material attachments. And by following Karma-kanda, eventually we will become more detached. Then we become qualified for Jnana-kanda. At that time, we understand that we are not the body, we are the soul. In other words, Karma-kanda is preliminary.
However, there are some philosophers who take the Karma-kanda as the highest philosophy. So Jaimini was one of these persons. So he was very learned and he established this philosophy called Karma mimamsa. And it is rather atheistic. Certainly, there is a sense of reincarnation. After this lifetime, you can go to swarga loka. But the emphasis is just to do good karmas according to the Karma-kanda and elevate oneself to swarga loka. And then one can enjoy eternally. So this is of course, from Bhagavad Gita. For instance, Bhagavad Gita rejects this completely. In fact, it calls these people fools. But we do have very serious, intelligent people like Jaimini following this system [Laughs]. And they had a very strong movement in ancient India. And in fact, Shankaracharya had to argue with these people.
So though we will consider it a foolish philosophy, there were very serious believers in this philosophy. So though we condemn that philosophy, still we accept some of the principles they established. And sometimes our Acharyas will quote some of the rules that Jaimini gives to interpret the meaning of the Vedas. But what our Acharyas reject is, this conclusion that the ultimate system is karma and the ultimate goal is to go to swarga loka. Of course, by some sort of logic and by concentrating on certain parts of the Vedas, one can defend and support this philosophy.
So why does Jaimini speak this philosophy? So of course, we find others, Shankaracharya is incarnation of Shiva and he speaks Mayavada philosophy Or Buddha rejects the Vedas completely, but he is an incarnation of the Lord also [Laughs]. So Jaimini established this philosophy for the less intelligent people. So to encourage people to follow this rather than follow nothing, then he makes exaggerated statements. And he promises eternal enjoyment through doing your regulated activities.
So of course, he is not the only philosopher that does this and the Karma-kanda section is not the only place where we find statements glorifying karma. We will find similar statements in Puranas. And even in Bhagavad Gita chapter 3, Krishna glorifies karma. So a lot of this glorification is actually not true. We cannot get eternal enjoyment from it. Yet such statements are made to encourage people to follow this process. So this exaggeration of results and exaggerated statements, we sometimes find in the Vedic literature. So we have to be careful of this. We can’t isolate a few statements from one section and conclude that this is what all the Vedas say. Similarly, in Bhagavad Gita chapter 3, Krishna encourages Arjuna to do Karma Yoga. And He says this is the best system. But then later He says this is for fools. So we have to take some statements as exaggeration and the only way we understand it is by seeing other statements.
So when we see there are contrary statements, then we have to figure out which statement is stronger. So this may take lot of study. But this is one of the jobs of the Acharyas. They find out which statements are absolutely true, which statements are relative. And they do this by carefully analyzing the text in context of that particular work. So luckily we do have the work of the Acharyas, we don’t have to go through this whole process. The Acharyas give us the final conclusion.
Similarly, the Bhagavatam also gives us a final conclusion. He wrote this as a decisive statement after writing the Brahma Sutras and all the Puranas. But still, even in Bhagavatam, we will have to correlate different statements and see which is the strongest statement. However, it is relatively easy in the Bhagavatam. And that is because we see just by majority of statements that Bhakti to Krishna is the main emphasis. And though sometimes Karma and Jnana and Yoga are praised, they are not constantly praised. So in this way, we have to use some intelligence to go through the scriptures. If we don’t have the intelligence, then we should simply follow the conclusions of the Acharyas.
So in this manner, we can get the ultimate meaning of the scripture. So it is good to follow the Vedic scriptures. But if we follow the Vedic scriptures and come to the wrong conclusion, it is also useless. So we may come to a similar conclusion as Jaimini by not following the Vedas [Laughs]. So we have Charvaka who rejects the Vedas and his conclusion is, we should enjoy with the material body. So Jaimini has a similar conclusion. The difference is that Jaimini follows the Vedas, so therefore he says you get the enjoyment by following Vedic rules. So in that sense, it is slightly superior to Charvaka’s.
So in any case, simply because a person follows the Vedas is not so important. What is important is, they should come to the proper conclusions. So therefore, our Acharyas often argue against other persons who are following the Vedas but come to the wrong conclusions. So here we have a statement of Jaimini’s philosophy, but this will be rejected. In other places we will find statements of Sankhya philosophy, that will be rejected. And then we will find statements about impersonalism, that will be rejected also. So by rejection of these various philosophies that follow the Vedas, we can understand that there is a truth there in the Vedas, but we shouldn’t be misled by these false interpretations.
Hare Krsna !
Q & A :
1.) Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna Maharaj, in Vaishnava literature also we find very strong statements that give a lot of result like, just chant one time the name of Krishna, more sins than you can commit are destroyed. So do these come under exaggeration category or how do we understand?
In relation to the statements about Bhakti, nothing is exaggeration. So nothing is impossible for Krishna. And Bhakti is the spiritual energy of Krishna. So nothing is impossible for Bhakti also [Laughs]. So statements about Bhakti are never exaggeration, whereas statements about other processes may be exaggeration.
2.) Maharaj, I have one doubt that if people who follow Karma-kanda are fools and the planets that they achieve, then what kind of people are there in those planets?
So by following Karma-kanda the goal is you go to swarga or some upper planet and you can enjoy there much more than we can enjoy on the earth planet. The Devatas are there, the Devatas are devotees of the Lord. But if you go there with the idea that you are eternal, then, one will sooner or later one have to face the fact that one has to give up one’s Devata body and go [Laughs] somewhere else. We see in the Bhagavatam it is described that the Devatas change every Manvantara period after 71 yuga cycles. Indra changes. All the Devatas change. Of course, if one becomes Brahma, one can go on for 100 years of Brahma’s years, but even he has to give up his body. So there is always imperfection in all these upper planets.
3.) Maharaj mentioned that Jaimini has adopted this philosophy for less intelligent. Does it mean that he is aware of the Absolute?
Well, in the Brhad Bhagavatamrta for instance, Jaimini is one of the speakers [Laughs]. He is [Laughs] giving Bhakti philosophy there [Laughs]. So he is a devotee, but he speaks his Karma-kanda for other people [Laughs].
4.) If Jaimini philosophy is basically atheistic, why would at all our Acharyas accept this primarily?
So we don’t accept his philosophy, but we use some of his principles of how to derive meaning from certain statements in the Vedas.
5.) Maharaj mentioned that to understand the right conclusion of scriptures, one has to be intelligent. Is it not that such intelligence is given by Krishna as mentioned in Bhagavad Gita?
So the intelligence of the devotee to get the correct meaning, obviously is not material intelligence. There are many materially intelligent people, but they don’t even accept anything in the Bhagavatam [Laughs]. So the intelligence that the devotee gets is manifested through his faith. And when he hears and studies the Vedic literatures through the Acharyas, then that spiritual intelligence manifests.
6.) Though Jaimini propagated this Karma mimamsa philosophy as a service to Vyasadeva, he is not a real atheist internally and attained perfection.
Yeah, you can say that.
7.) Maharaj, Lord tells Uddhava that there are philosophers, however, who challenge My conclusion. Question is, how the Lord’s own conclusion can be challenged, or can I understand that Lord is allowing it?
Well, we have many people. When Krishna was alive, many people challenged Him. Therefore, He killed everybody [Laughs], arranged the battle of Kurukshetra, because these were challenging the existence of Krishna [Laughs]. So there’s always devotees and there’s always demons. And sometimes the demons are more powerful, sometimes the devotees are more powerful.
8.) Maharaj, since the demigods are also devotees, and we see Bali Maharaj also, he was doing so many sacrifices, but he could surrender to Vamana when he saw Him. So, it looks like that even by doing Karma-kanda, we can develop bhakti for the Lord. So, should it be rejected?
So, actually, we can trace his sense of surrender back to his lineage, because he was a descendant of Prahlada, a great devotee. Therefore, he [Laughs] got some ajnata sukrti for that to develop, not because of doing Karma-kanda [Laughs]. A lot of demons do a lot of Karma-kanda things. Jarasandha was very [Laughs] Vedic, and Ravana was very Vedic also [Laughs].
9.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Please accept my humble obeisances. Thus by following Vaishnava philosophy, one can attain the best perfection, that is Krishna.
Yeah. So that is what is promised here. If you don’t believe it, then you don’t become a Vaishnava, that’s all.
10.) How Parikshit Maharaj spoke to his mother about Brhad Bhagavatam even though he heard Bhagavatam but not Brhad Bhagavatam. Kindly clarify.
So his mother requested the essence of the Bhagavatam. So obviously he said something different but with the same conclusion.
11.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Dandavat pranam. In the upper planetary system, Brahmaloka, there are four lokas. People with what qualifications or characteristics enter there?
Well, they go to upper planets because of their punyas. They do a lot of good karmas, etc. They do renunciation. If you do sacrifices, you go to swarga loka or mahar loka. If you do austerities like Sannyasa etc, you go to tapa loka.
12.) Hare Krishna. Maharaj, the question here is, devotees also do some Karma-kanda activities like Pitra Tarpanam. So, does it simply mean that they have no faith or is it alright to do that?
It is explained, I think, by Jiva Goswami that, if you do karmas, but you are attached to them, and you think if you don’t do them, you become sinful, then this becomes a anartha, anartha in Bhakti.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!