Srimad Bhagavatam 11.10.32 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 15 April 2021
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 10 Verse 32.
ŚB 11.10.32
yāvat syād guṇa-vaiṣamyaṁ
tāvan nānātvam ātmanaḥ
nānātvam ātmano yāvat
pāratantryaṁ tadaiva hi
Synonyms
yāvat — as long as; syāt — there is; guṇa — of the modes of material nature; vaiṣamyam — separate existences; tāvat — then there will be; nānātvam — different states of existence; ātmanaḥ — of the soul; nānātvam — different states of existence; ātmanaḥ — of the soul; yāvat — as long as there are; pāratantryam — dependence; tadā — then there will be; eva — certainly; hi — indeed.
Translation
As long as the living entity thinks that the modes of material nature have separate existences, he will be obliged to take birth in many different forms and will experience varieties of material existence. Therefore, the living entity remains completely dependent on fruitive activities under the modes of nature.
Purport
The word guṇa-vaiṣamyam indicates forgetfulness of Lord Kṛṣṇa, which causes one to see material varieties as separate states of existence. The living entity, being attracted to material varieties and having faith in them, is forced to experience these varieties in different material bodies, such as those of demigods, pigs, businessmen, insects, and so on. According to the karma-mīmāṁsā philosophers, there is no transcendental living entity who is the background of all existence. They accept material variety as the final reality. However, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa, is the actual basis of everything. Everything is within Him, and He is within everything. A pure devotee of the Lord sees Kṛṣṇa everywhere and sees all of the variegated modes of nature as the potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa. One who does not see Lord Kṛṣṇa will certainly see material variegatedness as the supreme reality. Such vision is called māyā, or gross illusion, and is similar to the vision of an animal. Pāratantryam means one will remain caught in the web of fruitive activities unless one gives up this superficial, separatist vision.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, this verse discusses the cause of the living entities existing in this material world and ultimately it was, we concluded it was the desire of the jiva himself. However, in ignorance, the jiva is largely influenced by material nature. And therefore, it looks like material nature is doing it. So, in order to remedy the situation, the jiva has to see the relationship between matter and jiva and Supreme Lord. And by doing so, then, he can understand his spiritual identity. Of course, intellectual knowledge is not enough. So, we can read, you’re not the body you’re the soul, but that is not enough to solve your problems in the material world. However, it is one step in the right direction. If we can accept the fact that we’re not the body, we’re the soul, at least with that understanding, we can also understand a lot of the happenings in this material world. And therefore, there is often an emphasis upon this basic understanding of the material nature, how it operates, and how the jiva is different from it. So, we see, for instance, in the third canto, many chapters are dedicated to simply explaining the operation of material energy. And there’s an elaborate description of the five gross elements, the ten senses, intelligence, sense objects, and sense devatas and mind and false ego, maha-tattva, and prakriti. So, for the devotee, of course, this is not too interesting. We’d rather hear descriptions of the spiritual world. So, we have these elaborate descriptions, and for the devotee, not so interesting, but for people who are more like scientists, they dedicate their life to studying this.
So, as the verse describes, some people think of material nature as a separate entity. That means it operates by itself. In other words, we do not need the jivas, nor do we need the Supreme Lord. In other words, we think that matter is everything. So, for such people, they will have to take repeated births in the material world. And they are largely influenced by the gunas of material nature. So, therefore, we find in Bhagavatam and other scriptures, a description of the material world, but it is not separate from the Supreme Lord. Nor is it separate from the jiva.
Why does the Lord create the material world? So, it is described that Maha Vishnu glances over prakriti, and this turns into Maha-tattva and all the material elements, and this turns into the universe. But why does Maha Vishnu glance? If He doesn’t glance, nothing happens. But why does He glance? So, it is described that it’s because of desires of the jivas. So, all the jivas are resting in Maha Vishnu very peacefully. But then, at a certain point, they start getting a little restless. They want to enjoy with material bodies. Therefore, the Lord glances over material energy, he injects the jiva in the material world, and then we have this whole manifestation of all the universes. So, therefore, the material world is for the jiva’s enjoyment. But the jiva cannot even enter the material world without the permission of the Supreme Lord. So, when He glances over material energy, then He injects the jivas into material energy, and then a transformation takes place, and we get the universes. The jivas enter material bodies, and then they identify with that body, and they enjoy in the material world. And they think that the material world is everything. So, they do activities, they get results and they produce karma, and therefore they take birth after birth in the material world. So, this is the jiva who sees material energy as separate. But it does not operate unless the jiva is in that material body. And it does not operate without the permission and arrangement of the Lord.
So, the first step to solve the problems of the jiva in the material world is to realize the real situation. So, this is what we call jnana or knowledge. Of course, that jnana has several levels. So, the first level is to at least accept that we are atma, not material body. So, this becomes the subject of jnana yoga. But then there’s a second step in that knowledge. And that is to understand there’s not only atma separate from material world, there’s also Supreme Lord. So, we sometimes call this vijnana. So, the vi in vijnana stands for visesha. So, visesha means special. So, we have knowledge and we have special knowledge. Or it’s like high school and university. So, both the parts of knowledge are important. Because it is very difficult for the human being to come even to the first stage, that is to realize we’re the atma, not the body, there is a lot of emphasis in the scriptures on this stage. And because so many scriptures speak of this, then many people conclude this is the final knowledge. So, it takes more intelligence to come to the second stage of vijnana. So, this is a rare knowledge. It’s also in the scriptures, but not as common as the jnana. But because there’s less of it does not mean it’s not important. It’s more important. So, to come to that second stage is rare, but if we come to that stage, then we have real success.
So, in these particular verses, there’s an emphasis only on this first stage, understanding we’re not the material body. And to prepare for even that, first we have to understand the uselessness of material existence. So, when we understand that, then we have an inspiration for understanding about atma. So, we should never lose sight of the final stage of knowledge. Although the Bhagavatam deals with both stages, still, finally, we have the emphasis put upon the second stage. And therefore, we have more content dedicated to describing the wonderful form, qualities and activities of the Supreme Lord. However, if we cannot even understand that the atma is separate from the body, it is very difficult to understand the Supreme Lord. When we read descriptions of Krishna, we will think of Him as a material entity. And then we’ll find fault with Him. However, that is not the case. The Supreme Lord has no fault. So, His appearance with form and acting like a human being do not indicate that He is a material person. But to come to that understanding, we have to understand the difference between matter and atma. So though, ultimately the knowledge of the Lord is more important, still we do have to have some atma jnana in order to appreciate the nature of the Supreme Lord. And therefore, we have these discussions about atma and body and the Bhagavatam.
Hare Krishna!
Q & A:
1.) Maharaj mentioned that, because of the desire of the jiva that Maha Vishnu glances. It apparently appears that the desires of the jiva are more powerful than the Lord Himself Maharaj?
Not more powerful. Obviously because everything is ultimately under the Lord but the Lord responds to the desires of the jiva either in the material world or in the spiritual world. So, in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad, it says, yo vidadhāti kāmān. The Lord fulfills the desires of the jiva. How He can do that unless He is superior? How can an inferior person satisfy a superior person? It is the superior person who can satisfy the inferior person. So, the Lord, therefore, He satisfies the jivas by fulfilling their material desire.
2.) But when we say that, we have to serve for the pleasure or the satisfaction of the Lord, then, again it becomes the way around Guru Maharaj because the atma cannot satisfy, being a lower category.
Yeah. Of course, the Lord Himself, by His mercy, accepts what the jiva offers. He doesn’t need anything. So, if you offer a fruit and flower, He doesn’t need it because He owns everything already. So, the example is given of you worship the sun with a lamp. So, the lamp is a little light and the sun is the origin of all light. So, what’s the use of a lamp, offering worship of the sun with a lamp which comes from the sun anyway? So, in that sense, yes, the inferior cannot satisfy the superior, but then we have the process of devotion, bhakti. So, this operates differently. So, the Lord is controller and He is controlled by bhakti. And if bhakti manifests in a person, he becomes a devotee, then the Lord is controlled by the devotee. Of course, we can also explain that bhakti is also part of the Supreme Lord Himself, it’s His swarupa shakti. So, if He’s controlled by the bhakti in a devotee, that simply means He’s controlled by his own swarupa shakti. So, He’s not controlled by anybody.
3.) Maharaj, we see that, there are cases or pastimes to say that, like at a particular time, the Lord is feeling hungry, the devotee, the sadhaka has to take the bhoga to their Lordships. There are pastimes where the Lord expresses that He’s already feeling hungry, but He’s expressing His desire to expedite and things like that, there are pastimes, which means He’s there again dependent on the devotees in one sense.
Yeah, so, ultimately, in all these cases, it is the Lord who is controlled by the bhakti. Just like our Lord Krishna is tied up by Mother Yasoda. So, it’s described He’s not really tied up by ropes, He’s tied up by the ropes of prema.
4.) Krishna being the knower of everything, does the Lord know when will exactly the jiva take up the process of devotional service?
Questions of when and time are questions in the material world. And the Supreme Lord in the spiritual world is beyond time. So, therefore, to ask a question, when the jiva develops a desire or whatever, does He know when the jiva is going to advance etc, are questions in the material world. We can’t apply that to Supreme Lord in the spiritual world.
5.) Maharaj, the Acharyas like Narottama Dasa Thakur sings that, just by the sight of a pure devotee, a living entity can be purified and take up to the process of pure devotional service. Here on the contrary, it seems that the Lord Vishnu’s glances implicate the living entities in materialistic life. How to appreciate that?
For people in the material world, to get the glance of the Lord means to make a lot of money. So, the glance of the Lord can give material benedictions, it can also give spiritual benedictions. And similarly the devotee can give material or spiritual benedictions. So, that is why many materialist people will come to a saintly person. So he’ll get material benediction.
6.) Maharaj why would a pure devotee give material benedictions in the first place? How to understand that?
Generally they don’t. But certainly the materialists are hoping for that. So, we see that people who desire wealth approach the Lord and worship Him. And the Lord gives them some wealth. And the hope is that, by doing that, they develop better faith and eventually they give up the desire for material enjoyment.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura premanande Hari Haribol!!!