Srimad Bhagavatam – 11.10.35 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | April 18, 2021.
“Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya”
“Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya”
“ Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya”
nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale
srimate Bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracharine
nirvishesha-shunyavadi-pashchatya-desha-tarine
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaitha gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
SB 11.10.35
śrī-uddhava uvāca
guṇeṣu vartamāno ’pi
deha-jeṣv anapāvṛtaḥ
guṇair na badhyate dehī
badhyate vā kathaṁ vibho
Translation:
Śrī Uddhava said: O my Lord, a living entity situated within the material body is surrounded by the modes of material nature and the happiness and distress that are born of activities caused by these modes. How is it possible that he is not bound by this material encirclement? It may also be said that the living entity is ultimately transcendental and has nothing to do with the material world. Then how is he ever bound by material nature?
Purport:
Due to the influence of the modes of nature the material body generates fruitive activities, which in turn generate material happiness and distress. This material chain reaction is indicated by the word deha-jeṣu. The Personality of Godhead has shown Uddhava that the actual goal of life is liberation, not sense gratification. Although the Lord has indicated that the living entity is liberated by devotional service performed with knowledge and renunciation, Uddhava apparently does not understand the specific means of perfection. According to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Uddhava’s question implies that we observe even in the activities of liberated souls such external activities as eating, sleeping, walking, hearing, speaking, etc., which are functions of the gross and subtle bodies. Thus, if even liberated souls are situated within the gross and subtle material bodies, then how are they not bound by the material modes of nature? If it is argued that the living entity is like the sky, which never mixes with any other object and therefore is not bound, then one may ask how such a transcendental living entity can ever be bound by material nature. In other words, how would material existence be possible? In order to completely clarify the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Uddhava presents this question to the supreme spiritual authority, Lord Kṛṣṇa.
In the kingdom of māyā there are innumerable speculations about the Supreme Lord, who is variously described as nonexistent, or as possessing material qualities, or as being devoid of all qualities, or as being a neuter object like a eunuch. But through mundane speculation it is not possible to understand the nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Uddhava wants to clear the path of spiritual liberation so that people can actually understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As long as one is affected by the modes of nature, perfect understanding is not possible. Lord Kṛṣṇa will now describe to Uddhava further details of spiritual emancipation on the road back home, back to Kṛṣṇa.
HH Banu Swami Maharaj:
So after this description by Krishna of the Jiva in the material world, Uddhava asks a question. So the living entity is stuck in this material world. It appears to be hopeless. What can he do? But since he is a spiritual particle, why is he at all associated with this material world? So in other words, he is asking how is it possible that a spiritual particle can be bound up by material energy? So these are questions asked at the end of this chapter and the answers actually are not given until the next chapter. So in the next chapter, in detail, Krishna discusses the symptoms of conditioned and liberated souls.
In any case, the idea here is that the Jiva is a spiritual particle. Sometimes in Sanskrit we call this Cit-kana. It means a conscious particle. So the Lord also is spiritual or conscious. But the Lord is not a small particle. So often we have the word Vibhu used in relation to the Lord. So this means the greatest person. And it often means all pervading. So He is unlimited. And another word we use is Ananta, no limits, no end. But we cannot say that the Jiva is the same. He is a Kana or Anu, a very small particle. So though he is conscious, he is not exactly like the Lord. So obviously because he is small, he has less power. The Lord is perfect with all powers. But the Jiva is imperfect, incomplete. He does not have all power. So there is a big difference between the Jiva and the Supreme Lord.
There is of course a big difference between material energy and the Jiva and the Supreme Lord. Material energy has no consciousness. It is called achit. It is not aware of anything. It is not aware of itself. Though it appears to be active, because we have things like the laws of energy, gravity etc actually it cannot do anything on its own. And thus it is described that after Pralaya when everything is destroyed nothing happens, there is no creation until the Lord desires. And He glances over material energy. If He does not glance over material energy, Prakriti just sits there. So Prakriti is dependent upon the Supreme Lord. But more than that, it has no consciousness. Though it cannot get any knowledge of anything.
The Jiva is also dependent on the Supreme Lord, but the Jiva has consciousness. That means it can know things. So the Jiva is quite different from matter. However, the knowledge of the Jiva and the knowledge of the Lord are different. The Jiva can have little knowledge. The Lord has all knowledge. Not only that, the Jiva can also with his knowledge make mistakes. So this is the problem with the Jiva. He can make mistakes. So in general, we call this ignorance. Though the Jiva can know things, when he knows things, it can be mistaken knowledge.
So in the material world as described in the previous verses, the Jiva can know many things. But he knows them separate from the Lord. He doesn’t recognize that the Lord actually controls everything. But because he believes that the material energy is completely independent, then he has no use for worshipping the Supreme Lord. He tries to enjoy the material objects. So this is the nature of the Jiva. He can be subject to ignorance even though he has the capacity to know everything.
Once the Jiva is subjected to ignorance, then he thinks in terms that, this is very good or this is very bad and he develops a sense of false ego. He identifies with the body and with that body certain things are good, certain things are bad. And then he begins to do activities to try to get his enjoyment and avoid the pain in the material world. So Patanjali describes these as the five different stages starting with ignorance or avidya. And this is followed by asmita or false identity. And then we have raga and dvesha, attachment and repulsion. And then the fifth one is abhinavesh, absorption in our material life, the fear of death.
So previously Krishna described this Jiva in ignorance in the material world. And it looks impossible that the Jiva can get out of this position. Yet the scriptures tell us about the liberated Jiva. So the question will arise, how do we get liberated? And what is the nature of liberation? This chapter described bondage. So what is liberation? And how is it possible that Jiva can be one or the other? Is he bound in the material world or he can be in a liberated state? How can he so radically change his situation? So we see for instance, animals remain animals, they don’t get liberated. Trees remain trees, nothing happens to them. But a human being, you can be in bondage or you can be in liberation state. So the human Jiva has a great possibility.
So in our philosophy, we explain this by calling the Jiva, Tatastha Shakti. Tata means border, A border is a dividing line between one substance and another. For instance, we have water, we have land. At a certain point, the two meet together. So the point where water meets land, that is called the Tata. So the Jiva is called Tatastha, situated on that border. So it’s not water and land, but it is spiritual world, material world and the Jiva is in between, borderline. So this does not describe a physical position of the Jiva. The Jiva is always situated between spiritual world and material world. But it indicates the possibility of the Jiva to go one way or the other. Therefore, we have Jivas in the material world, Jivas in the spiritual world. Furthermore, the Jiva in the material world can go to the spiritual world. So the Jiva being Tatastha in nature, can change.
However, we also have another scriptural statement. If you go to the spiritual world, where you are already there, you don’t fall. So this actually is the conclusion of the Brahma Sutra. So there’s four parts to the Brahma Sutra. So the first two, we can say is Sambandha-jnan. So this identifies the nature of the Lord, the nature of the Jiva, the nature of material energy. The third part discusses Abhidheya, the process of Bhakti. And then the fourth part discusses Prayojana, Prema. So, quoting from different Upanishads and explaining those quotation and finally, the Brahma Sutras conclude that the last sutra is, you don’t return. Once you go to the spiritual realm, you do not return.
So if one develops Prema and goes to the spiritual world, one does not fall from that. Of course, we also make clear that if the Jiva attains Prema and goes to the spiritual world, he doesn’t become something else. He’s still a Jiva. He’s still Tatastha shakti. It doesn’t change from being a Jiva to becoming Supreme Lord. So he’s a Jiva, but he’s equivalent to the nitya siddhas at that point. So he doesn’t fall from that position.
So of course, we’re going to ask, why he doesn’t fall? And the answer is that, the Jiva in the spiritual world is slightly different from, well, actually a big difference he has a big difference from the Jiva in the material world. In the material world or in the spiritual world, the Jivas in either case is the Tatastha Shakti. Yet the Jiva in the spiritual world is slightly different. So it is described that the Jiva in the spiritual world is endowed with the Chit Shakti of the Lord, the internal energy of the Lord. In the material world, the Jiva does not have that Chit Shakti. Of course, Chit Shakti refers to not complete Chit Shakti of the Lord, but Bhakti itself is part of the Chit Shakti. Prema is part of the Chit Shakti. So in the spiritual world, the Jiva has Tatastha Shakti, has an addition of some Samvit and Hladini Shakti from the internal energy of the Lord.
So the Jiva in the material world, does not have that. However, by the practice of Bhakti, then the Jiva can fix that Chit Shakti in itself. So once that’s fixed in him, then he’s eternally with the Lord. He is still Tatastha Shakti, but he has this addition of the Chit Shakti. Then he is eternally with the Supreme Lord. Although the Jiva in the spiritual world is still Tatastha Shakti, the Lord himself is such that, He begins to serve the devotee. So a lot of the difference between the Lord and the Jiva begins to disappear due to the nature of Prema.
Okay. Hare Krishna !
Q & A
1.) Thank you, Maharaj. Maharaj, you mentioned that the Jiva is less powerful, whereas the Lord is all-powerful. And we also see in between a Shaktyavesha Avatar. So what is the difference of the Shakti between a normal Jiva and a Shaktyavesha Avatar, and a Shaktyavesha Avatar and the Supreme Lord?
So the Shaktyavesha Avatars are Nithya Siddha Jivas. But unlike the other Nithya Siddhas, the Lord gives them some special power and they come with that power in the material world and manifest that power. So Narada Muni has the power to distribute Bhakti. The Kumaras have the power of distributing Jnana.
2.) Maharaj, is it proper to understand that no living entity is as empowered as that of Narada Muni in terms of distributing Bhakti. Is that the right way to understand?
So Narada Muni has a special role as a Avatar. So he comes every day of Brahma, every life of Brahma, etc., in all the different universes. So other Jivas may have some power to distribute Bhakti, but it’s not that they are always coming to all the universes and distributing in the same way.
3.) Maharaj you said that this thing is happening actually before Krishna is winding up His past times in this world and I am sure Uddhava was there when Gita was spoken. So more or less there are a lot of things which comes again here as was spoken in Bhagavad Gita. So how to properly understand this Maharaj?
In this portion we’ll find that as in Bhagavad Gita we have discussion of Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga and Bhakti Yoga. But we also see there’s more details given of all these different yogas. And particularly Bhakti, we find there’s a whole description of deity worship in this section as well.
4.) How to understand Jaya and Vijaya coming to material world? Do they simultaneously present in Vaikuntha and material world also at the same time?
So it’s described, if we look carefully in the third Canto, that when they fall, they don’t really fall, because this is an arrangement of the Supreme Lord. So sometimes there are stories that involve curses, etc. like Tulasi Devi and others. But they actually don’t. So this is all just an arrangement of the Lord. Viswanath Chakravarthi also explains that the Lord cannot separate Himself from Jaya and Vijaya, because they are His eternal associates. At the same time, He was obligated to fulfill the curse of the Kumaras. Therefore, Jaya and Vijaya were expanded and their expansions became Hiranyakasipu and Hiranyaksha. So in this way, they never left the spiritual world.
5.) Maharaj, if it is an expansion, it is kind of not being so fair to the Chatur Kumaras in one sense. Because he said that they will be sent and then we still find they are still there and then not being there, kind of a difference over there.
He does both things. He fulfills the curse by having them go and then those bodies they experience life as demon. And at the same time, He doesn’t separate himself from them at all. Because he says, “na me bhaktah pranashyati” (BG : 9.31).
6.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, in the purport there is a comment regarding the innumerable speculations about the Supreme Lord, the last thing which is mentioned is being a neuter object like a eunuch. Which particular philosophy is that Maharaj?
Well, in philosophies like Nyaya and I think Vaisheshika philosophy, they have a Supreme Lord, a Jiva and Prakriti, but the Supreme Lord doesn’t do anything.
7.) Maharaj, Ambarish’s pastime, Durvasa Mani, goes to different lokas and comes to the same Ekadashi day. How to understand about the time differences over?
Well, the time is different in different levels of the universe. And normally, of course, the few seconds up there is a long time down here. But in relation to the Lord’s pastimes, the Lord can adjust time other things. So therefore whatever happens, He can adjust it so that it happens in such a way that, He can fulfill the desire of His devotees plus illustrate his own purpose.
8.) Living entity comes to the position of a human being. It is very, very rare. Again, to our apparent eyes, it appears that human beings are becoming more and more animalistic in the present day.
That is particularly true in Kali Yuga, because the population in general of the human beings is sinful. So therefore, many of them may not even take birth as humans again.
9.) Maharaj mentioned about a living entity coming under the Chit Shakti in the spiritual world. To what extent a living entity can experience Chit Shakti in the material world, Maharaj, in terms of his advances in devotion?
At the stage of Bhava, then it says that the Hladini and Samvit Shakti can manifest in the Jiva. And then it becomes fixed in Prema.
Devotee: Granthraj Sri Srimad Bhagavatham ki Jai !! His Holiness Banu Swami Maharaj ki Jai !! His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupad ki Jai. !! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Hari bol !!