Srimad Bhagavatam – 3.25.36 | HH Banu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Sydney Australia| February 27, 2026.
“Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya”
“Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya”
“ Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya”
nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale
srimate Bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracharine
nirvishesha-shunyavadi-pashchatya-desha-tarine
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaitha gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
SB 3.25.36
tair darśanīyāvayavair udāra-
vilāsa-hāsekṣita-vāma-sūktaiḥ
hṛtātmano hṛta-prāṇāṁś ca bhaktir
anicchato me gatim aṇvīṁ prayuṅkte
Synonyms:
taiḥ — by those forms; darśanīya — charming; avayavaiḥ — whose limbs; udāra — exalted; vilāsa — pastimes; hāsa — smiling; īkṣita — glances; vāma — pleasing; sūktaiḥ — whose delightful words; hṛta — captivated; ātmanaḥ — their minds; hṛta — captivated; prāṇān — their senses; ca — and; bhaktiḥ — devotional service; anicchataḥ — unwilling; me — My; gatim — abode; aṇvīm — subtle; prayuṅkte — secures.
Translation:
Upon seeing the charming forms of the Lord, smiling and attractive, and hearing His very pleasing words, the pure devotee almost loses all other consciousness. His senses are freed from all other engagements, and he becomes absorbed in devotional service. Thus in spite of his unwillingness, he attains liberation without separate endeavor.
Purport:
There are three divisions of devotees: first class, second class and third class. Even the third-class devotees are liberated souls. It is explained in this verse that although they do not have knowledge, simply by seeing the beautiful decoration of the Deity in the temple, the devotees become absorbed in thought of Him and lose all other consciousness. Simply by fixing oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaging the senses in the service of the Lord, one is imperceptibly liberated. This is also confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Simply by discharging uncontaminated devotional service as prescribed in the scriptures, one becomes equal to Brahman. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate This means that the living entity in his original state is Brahman because he is part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. But simply because of his forgetfulness of his real nature as an eternal servitor of the Lord, he is overwhelmed and captured by māyā. His forgetfulness of his real constitutional position is māyā. Otherwise he is eternally Brahman.
When one is trained to become conscious of his position, he understands that he is the servitor of the Lord. “Brahman” refers to a state of self-realization. Even the third-class devotee — who is not advanced in knowledge of the Absolute Truth but simply offers obeisances with great devotion, thinks of the Lord, sees the Lord in the temple and brings forth flowers and fruits to offer to the Deity — becomes imperceptibly liberated. Śraddhayānvitāḥ: with great devotion the devotees offer worshipful respects and paraphernalia to the Deity. The Deities of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, Lakṣmī and Nārāyaṇa, and Rāma and Sītā are very attractive to devotees, so much so that when they see the statue decorated in the temple of the Lord they become fully absorbed in thought of the Lord. That is the state of liberation. In other words, it is confirmed herewith that even a third-class devotee is in the transcendental position, above those who are trying for liberation by speculation or by other methods. Even great impersonalists like Śukadeva Gosvāmī and the four Kumāras were attracted by the beauty of the Deities in the temple, by the decorations and by the aroma of tulasī offered to the Lord, and they became devotees. Even though they were in the liberated state, instead of remaining impersonalists they were attracted by the beauty of the Lord and became devotees.
Here the word vilāsa is very important. Vilāsa refers to the activities or pastimes of the Lord. It is a prescribed duty in temple worship that not only should one visit the temple to see the Deity nicely decorated, but at the same time he should hear the recitation of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā or some similar literature, which is regularly recited in the temple. It is the system in Vṛndāvana that in every temple there is recitation of the śāstras. Even third-class devotees who have no literary knowledge or no time to read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā get the opportunity to hear about the pastimes of the Lord. In this way their minds may remain always absorbed in the thought of the Lord — His form, His activities and His transcendental nature. This state of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a liberated stage. Lord Caitanya therefore recommended five important processes in the discharge of devotional service: (1) to chant the holy names of the Lord, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, (2) to associate with devotees and serve them as far as possible, (3) to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, (4) to see the decorated temple and the Deity and, if possible, (5) to live in a place like Vṛndāvana or Mathurā. These five items alone can help a devotee achieve the highest perfectional stage.
This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā and here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That third-class devotees can also imperceptibly achieve liberation is accepted in all Vedic literatures.
HH Banu Swami Maharaj:
So, this verse is describing the power of devotional service. Here it describes bhakti with offering respects, etc. and seeing the form of the Lord and admiring, etc. And the statement here is that with that bhakti, one attains liberation from the material world. Of course, more than that also, he also attains the Lord. Anyway, he gets free from material energy and he attains the Lord. And it says, even if he’s unwilling, even if he doesn’t want to. So, then Prabhupad in the Purport describes that even the third-class devotee can become liberated from material nature.
So, of course, what does that mean? Are we talking here about Kanishtas, Madhyamas and Uttamas? If we’re talking about the definition given in the 11th Canto, the third-class devotee is not a real devotee even. Because he worships the Lord definitely, but he really doesn’t understand anything about the deity. He may have mixed devotion at best. He may think of the deity as a devata or whatever. But at least he’s worshipping the form of the Lord rather than a devata, but many misconceptions may be there. So, therefore, he’s not even called a Vaishnava. He’s called a Vaishnava-praya, almost a Vaishnava.
Whereas the one who is the Madhyama actually does have association of devotees, has knowledge, doesn’t commit any offenses, doesn’t have mixed bhakti. So he’s called a real Vaishnava. And, therefore, it is easy for that person to progress towards prema. The first one only gets advancement by getting mercy of the Madhyamas and then advancing beyond that. And if he doesn’t, then he will get something but not exactly the same result.
However, even that person who is the Kanishta, so to speak, lowest third-class devotee, he gets more than the jnani and the yogi and the karmi. So, why is that? It’s because devotional service is much more powerful than any other process, even though it’s not pure bhakti.
So, our acharyas describe how a person who is not doing pure bhakti, at least he is doing mainly bhakti, but he may mix it with karma. Even if he doesn’t mix it with karma activities like varnashrama, as I spoke of last night, at least he still has some material desires, he’s trying to achieve through his bhakti. So, that’s just not pure. Or it could be jnana as well. But that person is superior to a person who is doing no bhakti or very little bhakti and mainly doing karma yoga. As I mentioned last night, if you do karma yoga, varnashrama, one of the rules is, of course, you offer tarpanas to your pitras and you also worship the Lord along with devatas. So, there is a little bhakti there. But, of course, even then, one is worshipping the Lord, but the main goal is not to get prema at all.
So, yes, there is a little bhakti in karma yoga, jnana yoga, ashtanga yoga, and if you don’t get that little bhakti, and if you offend the Lord, you don’t get anything. So, all of your karma yoga is useless, if you offend the Lord. So, there has to be a little devotion and respect for Vishnu there. So, that’s what Prabhupad explains, that even in karma yoga, you have to worship the Supreme Lord. But then we should not think, OK, karma yoga is bhakti, the same. No, there is bhakti there, but it’s little and not, of course, pure. So, that’s one. Do without the bhakti, nothing happens. Do with a little bhakti. Yeah, you can get artha, dharma, karma, moksha, etc.
If you take to the process of bhakti mainly, and this karma yoga, jnana yoga, ashtanga yoga, a little side thing, which may contaminate also, at least you’re doing mainly bhakti. So, it’s better. So, therefore, you should get better results. So, you can get svarga loka or Brahma loka by doing karma yoga with a little bhakti, and with no bhakti, you don’t even get that. If you do mainly bhakti with a little karma yoga, you should get better than svarga loka, Yes! If you do mainly bhakti yoga with a little jnana yoga, you should get better than liberation. So, that’s a logical thing, and that is true. So, those who do bhakti with a little mixture of karma yoga, jnana yoga, ashtanga yoga they get better than Brahma loka, better than liberation.
So, they say, well, they go to the spiritual world, and they get the Lord, so, what’s the difference? We can do pure bhakti and pure bhakti, and we get the same thing. Answer is NO. You can get out of the material world, you can get beyond liberation, But you don’t get prema. So only if you do the pure bhakti, you get the prema. So this of course is also logical.
If you do the mixed bhakti, you get one result. If you do pure bhakti, you get a better result. If we do 5% bhakti, we get one result. If you do 20% bhakti, another result. 80% bhakti, another result. 100% bhakti, better result, best result. That’s the logical conclusion. And Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, “As you surrender to me, I reward” (BG 4.11). So the more you surrender, the better reward you get. So you do pure bhakti and sadhana, follow the instructions of Nectar of devotion, worship the Lord nicely, don’t mix material desires or desire for liberation in it. Fine, you follow that exact formula given in Nectar of Devotion, you get prema for the Lord, depending on who you worship.
So then what happens to these devotees who do the mixed bhakti, who get more than liberation, who get more than Brahmaloka, who get to the spiritual world? Do they get prema or not? Answer is NO! But they get to the spiritual world. So that sounds a little peculiar, you know, he says, how can you be in the spiritual world and not have prema? So we can say that maybe we can call it prema. We can say it’s a weak prema. It’s less. Just as Putana was killed by Krishna and Krishna mercifully gave her a spiritual form in the spiritual world. So then we’ll think, well, if the demons get killed by the Lord and get that result, let’s all be demons. Then we don’t have to do sadhana. And we do sadhana for many lifetimes, and we go to the spiritual world, better be killed by Krishna as a demon, and then we go automatically, we get a nice body also. But that’s not also logical, because yes, Krishna kills the demons, they get a form, but it’s not the same as a person doing pure sadhana bhakti and going to the spiritual world. They get better results.
So Putana does get a spiritual body, but result is different from what a devotee gets. So similarly, not getting killed by the Lord, but you’re doing this mixed bhakti, you get a result, get the spiritual world. So what do you get? Salokya, Sarupya, Sarshti. That much you get. So of course, these are considered to be types of liberation, mukti, better than Sayuja. So one who does jnana or yoga gets Sayuja. One who does bhakti with a little jnana or yoga in it, can get Salokya, Sarshti, Sarupya. So of course, in Bhagavatam, it’s also said, ”the real devotee does not even accept Salokya, Sarupya, Sarshti or Samipya, if he cannot serve the Lord.”(SB 3.29.13) So serving the Lord is better than that. So you can get to the spiritual world and whatever with Salokya, Sarupya, etc., but not necessarily directly serving the Lord. So that’s the position of these people who do the mixed bhakti.
So they get a nice spiritual body, which is eternal, they get a nice spiritual place, they have some relation to the Lord, because they’re doing bhakti, but they don’t directly serve the Lord and develop rasa. They don’t get prema. What do they get? Bhava, rati, which is precursor to prema, second-class prema. So they get that sort of thing. And they serve the Lord in one sense. Yes, they meditate on the Lord. They serve him indirectly, kind of. So that’s what they get. It is said that they get a type of Salokya, Sarupya, etc., and one who does bhakti mixed with jnana can even get Shanta-rati. But that’s the extent.
So the devotees who practice pure bhakti they can get this higher result. They get a spiritual body, so they do get Salokya, Sarupya, etc., but that’s not their interest. Their interest is to serve the Lord directly. So they get direct rasa with the Lord in prema. That’s the difference. So it is true that those who are the Kanishtas or the third-class devotees, yes, they can also obtain the Lord, but definitely it’s not the same as one who is practicing pure bhakti. So therefore the indication when these three types of devotees are described, the Kanishta, Madhyama and Uttama, the indication is that we should strive for being at least a Madhyama who practices pure bhakti, and then we get prema. And of course, as the Madhyama proceeds, then eventually he becomes an Uttama with that prema.So it is not advised that we simply stick to being a Kanishta. That’s the whole message there.
In any case, we see that bhakti in any form is much more powerful than karma, jnana, yoga or any other process. So we get much better result much quicker. But still, if we have the impurity, then we get lesser results. So, for instance, in the second canto it is said, whether you have all desires or no desires or desires for liberation, still worship the Lord. So that’s good, because you get better results than if you don’t worship the Lord, or if you worship the Lord a little. If you do worship the Lord a little and you practice something else, you get some result. If you have all these desires and mainly you’re doing bhakti and worshipping the Lord, you get better result. But if you practice bhakti with all these desires and desire for liberation, you get the best result. So we should carefully examine all these statements and understand the real truth behind them. So bhakti is the most powerful process.
Here it is also stated how one becomes very attracted to the wonderful glances and smiles and form, limbs of the Lord. So to do that, Lord has to have a form. So therefore, bhakti implies that we’re accepting the Lord or Supreme Being who does have a form, a particular form. And even if one is a Kaniṣhta, one can be attracted to that form and get purified and develop. The person who is more advanced, he accepts the form of the Lord, he’s also attracted to the form of the Lord. But more than simply being attracted to the form, that higher devotee, Madhyama, he will actually serve the Lord with great dedication as well understanding his goal is not simply to see the Lord, his goal is to serve the Lord. So service is higher than simply seeing the Lord. Of course, we can say that seeing itself is a type of service, that is true. We see that in Nectar of Devotion we have 64 aṅgas of bhakti, one of them is seeing the Lord. So it is also a type of devotional service. So even that is powerful.
We see, of course, Prabhupād at the end here he mentions the five aṅgas of bhakti which are very powerful to give you the prema. One of them is serving the Deity, not just seeing the Deity, but serving the Deity. Of course, the other is hearing the topics of Bhāgavatam, the other is chanting the Holy Name. So all of them are services to the Lord. So we should not think service simply means scrubbing the floor or whatever. It is actually hearing and chanting are services to the Lord also, very powerful at that. So they are all powerful, they are all connected to the Supreme Lord. But the power comes behind that from, of course, the devotion or the bhakti.
Now even without the bhakti there is power, as we see in the case of Ajāmila. So even without the bhakti, powerful, and Ajāmila can get the result. But it is better if we do it with the devotion. But even the devotion may be impure or pure. So we get mixed bhakti and we get pure bhakti. And the pure bhakti is more powerful than the mixed bhakti. So how do we get to the pure bhakti level? We can get to that by mercy of devotees. So therefore sadhu-saṅgha is one of these elements here in the five things to help us. So in this way we may choose one element of bhakti as the prominent one, but it should be accompanied by others as well. So usually we do these five together rather than it’s simply one.
And this way we get the pure bhakti and we get the final results. So there are many types of bhakti, but the best one is the pure bhakti. And that gets the best result. The others also give very good results, but not the same. So that’s how we should understand these statements made in the Bhagavatam.
Okay, any question now?
Q & A
1.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. You talked about how a devotee gets attracted to the Lord and serves the Lord. Can you please elaborate on the mood within the Gaudiya Vaishnavism where you don’t even want to connect to the Lord directly only. For example the highest stage Bhakti Siddhanta says is the manjari, who doesn’t want to associate with the Lord directly like a gopi but rather serve the devotees. So the Prema there is it as symptoms as one who is connected with the Lord or where there is connection through the devotees in Raganuga bhakti and in some cases we see that the connection with the devotees looks like atleast much stronger than the connection to Krishna himself.
Of course we also say we should aspire to be das, das, das, das, das, das, das, dasanudas. And that’s considered to be good quality. So such statements are made because intrinsic in bhakti is the idea that the great devotees are the most humble. So they do not strive for the highest positions and therefore it says Radha who is the highest devotee is the humblest at the same time. She is the highest, but she is the humblest and she doesn’t have pride in her own position. So in bhakti itself this is kind of intrinsic that we don’t strive for being the best devotee or whatever, getting position or whatever in front of Krishna. So that’s one of the attitudes of the devotee that all devotees should have.
We see that there’s different types of relationships with Radha and Krishna particularly in which you could have more preference for Krishna or more preference for Radha or equal. That’s discussed. It’s kind of one of those high topics that people discuss sometimes. And then the best is to have equal. And then accordingly we have different type of sakhis like Prana-sakhis and Parama-prestha-sakhis etc. So those who have the equal are on the highest level. So but even there then we have those who are eternally so and those who are aspiring for such positions whatever like that.
So actually in the Nectar of Devotion and in Ujjwala Nilamani the Manjaris are not directly mentioned as such which is kind of interesting. Of course Rupa Goswami does mention Manjaris in some of the leela activities like Tulasi Manjari and whatever. But in those works they don’t seem to mention directly so it’s kind of implied. So we see in the beginning of Nectar of Devotion there talks about Raganuga Bhakti and then it talks about the different types of bhakti like in Madhurya Rasa etc etc. And then Sakhya and Vatsalya. So you can have Raganuga in any of those moods. And then there is the two where you directly enjoy with Krishna in Madhurya Rasa as a gopi or a sakhi. And then there is the more aspiring only for the mood that the sakhis have which then they’ll say well that means the Manjaris. It doesn’t say Manjari directly there.
And so similarly there’s also in Ujjwala Nilamani again there’s this it doesn’t mention the Manjaris directly, but everyone implies that okay these ones who have equal with maybe slightly more attraction to Radha. They are in that Manjari category and they’re also not striving for direct relation. They serve the other gopis in that mood like that. So it is one type of Madhurya Rasa even though one does not have direct relationship with Krishna in Sambhoga. And one for us is considered the highest because we follow after those. So we have Rupa Goswami and Sanatan Goswami in that mood. So we follow after that.
What is the extent of bliss etc? Well obviously Radha has the most bliss and her sakhis got the most bliss. So there’s no competition anyway. And you cannot even aspire for those positions. So all we can aspire is to be the next in line that is serving those people then that would be the Manjaris. So that’s the aspiration of the sadhakas.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, please accept my humble obeisances. You mentioned that we should atleast target to progress to Madhyama Adhikari level. My question is like how do we progress from Kanishta to Madhyama level and how do we know that we have achieved that level or not?
So the Kanishta is described in the 11th Canto of Bhagavatam as some person who worships the deity of Vishnu or Krishna or Narasimha in a temple but without real knowledge. Maybe out of hereditary something or other. Their parents had deity so they worshiped like that or custom that your grandfather takes you to the temple every day. So you also go to the temple because they go to the temple or you do puja in the house because your ancestors did the same puja. And it could have been Shiva, could have been Durga, could have been Krishna and if it’s Krishna then you’re called a Vaishnava. But your understanding is not very thorough. So such persons are considered devotees in the sense, that they have and are worshiping forms of the Lord rather than devatas. But they don’t have knowledge and they don’t associate with devotees.
So the followers of Lord Caitanya on the other hand are promoting worship of the Lord with knowledge. So we understand differences between Krishna and Vishnu etc. We understand the difference between Vishnu and Devatas. We understand the difference between impure Bhakti and pure Bhakti. So and that’s kind of fundamental to starting Bhakti in that movement. So therefore, when in ISKCON then when you contact ISKCON that’s the first information you get.
Why do we worship Krishna? Because Bhagavatam says He is the Supreme Lord. He’s different from devata. He’s different from Vishnu. And we worship him and we don’t ask for material things. So that’s kind of a basic thing when we begin devotional service and we chant Hare Krishna. So therefore, that means that the devotee automatically has gone beyond the Kanishta stage.
Before you have any knowledge and you’re just in your house and maybe you’re you see these movies about Mahabharata and Krishna Lila on television. Okay you have some faith in the Lord and maybe you have a deity in your house and you and every Sunday you do offer some incense also. Okay but it’s no knowledge there. But when you do get that knowledge then you get promoted to the Madhyama stage. So we say everybody within ISKCON is more or less in Madhyama. But then of course there’ll be different levels of Madhyamas as well.
3) Maharaj, you mentioned about how the devotees don’t even want sarupya, samipya, salokya.
If there’s no service. If there’s service then automatically, they get anyway because how can you serve without a form?
Devotee: My question is that, how can there be a state where you are in sarupya or salokya but then there is no service?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well I said internal. You can meditate on the Lord and serve a little. But it’s not real. Service is not the most essential element. So it’s there, but it’s secondary element. Whereas for the devotee, service is the main element, a real devotee.
4.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Dandavat pranams. As you mentioned about Kanishta and Madhyama, the advancement is decided by knowledge in that way. Does it mean that jnana becomes actually essential point for the advancement in bhakti?
Well, when we say knowledge, of course it doesn’t mean the jnana yoga knowledge which is knowledge of Brahman and merging in Brahman. It is Bhagavad jnan, which is sravanam basically. So in the Nectar of Devotion in describing Vaidhi sadhana bhakti, then Rupa Goswami again divides those people who are practicing pure bhakti into Kanishtas, Madhyamas and Uttamas.
These Kanishtas are not the same as the Kanishtas who have no knowledge. These ones are actually practicing pure bhakti, but they’re called Kanishtas because they have very little knowledge. So they’re practicing. Because they have no knowledge or little knowledge then they may meet other people who may argue with them, give up counter philosophies, many philosophies, and they cannot answer. And they make a little bit their faith kind of wavers a little bit. So they have weak faith or Komala Shraddha, because they have less knowledge.
Better than that is called the Madhyama who has stronger faith. He has stronger faith because he has more knowledge of scripture, that is Bhagavatam, which is Sravanam. And so people may argue with him and he doesn’t lose his faith. But he may not be able to defeat them, but at least he has enough knowledge that his faith remains strong. Yeah they’re speaking nonsense but he can’t really reply properly.
The third type is called the Uttama, also in Sādhana Bhakti. This person has deep knowledge of scripture and also logical ability to understand and explain it nicely. So this person also people can argue and he can defeat them also. And he can even convince them. And of course he never loses his faith at all. So he’s considered to be the Uttama. So these are different stages of related to knowledge of scripture.
However when we talk about knowledge of scripture or we talk about Sravanam, we’re not talking simply about memorizing something. It’s not an intellectual process. Logic is definitely involved but the devotion must be there. So when we talk about knowledge in Bhakti etc, it’s not just learning something and memorizing something. Yes we read the scriptures and we get to understand it. We understand it through the Bhakti not through the logic. Otherwise we will end up like some people in University. They may get a PhD in Bhakti, but they’re not even devotees. But they write their thesis and whatever and the professor says yeah very good you’ve quoted everything very nicely and logically you’ve explained something historically or whatever. Yeah so you can get a degree like that but it’s no Bhakti at all. So it’s quite different.
Whereas when we’re talking about the Madhyamas and Kanishta, Madhyama, Uttamas in terms of getting knowledge of Bhakti, it’s the devotee who is getting that knowledge. So it’s quite different. His understanding of the scripture is based on the Bhakti not on logic even though he uses logic.
5.) Maharaj, you were mentioning about Vaidhi sadhana bhakti and the relationship with the Kanishta, Madhyama and Uthama. Is this classification of the three types of devotees is there only in Vaidhi sadhana bhakti or do we have the classification even in Raganuga?
Well, Rupa Goswami doesn’t mention it and the reason is that Vaidhi Bhakti is dependent on the rule of the scripture. So there’s more dependence on the scripture there. We’re not doing it, because we spontaneously love Krishna. We’re practicing Bhakti because scripture tells us to. That’s prominent of course but of course behind that is the faith which is not scriptural at all. But there is a prominence of performing the activities because we have faith in the scripture and the more knowledge, we have of the scripture then the deeper the faith and then the more we practice our Bhakti. So there’s a relationship between the knowledge of scripture and our Bhakti there.
With Raganuga, it doesn’t mean we reject scripture but the main impetus for performing our activities in Bhakti is that taste for following the people of Vrindavan, having admiration for the way in which they serve Krishna. So the impetus is the wonderful activities of the people of Vrindavan not what scripture tells us. So therefore we can’t measure it exactly in the same way. But it doesn’t mean that they’re devoid of scripture also. Definitely even Raganuga has to be followed according to scriptural injunction etc. Methods are mentioned in scripture. We have to follow those methods not concoct our own methods. We do have to know about Krishna. And even to begin practicing you have to have lobha or a greed to follow the inhabitants of Vrindavan. And how do we get that? We have to hear scripture. So there is a dependence on scripture, but it’s a little bit different.
6.) Maharaj what is this demon or let’s say Kanishtas they want to go back to the spiritual world even if they are not so advanced by the blessings of Krishna or mercy of Krishna, do they upgrade their knowledge and get prema because everything is dynamic in the spiritual world, you cannot remain Kanishta in the spiritual world, so I am asking here by the presence of the Lord and the devotees you will automatically advance to the stage of prema or not?
Well in the spiritual world nobody’s a Kanishta in the sense that nobody has any anarthas. There’s no gunas of material nature there. So they’re all purified completely and moreover they all have spiritual bodies. So they can’t be Kanishtas in that sense. They’re Kanishtas only in the sense that their prema is less. So therefore it’s not even called prema. It’s called bhava or rati.
So that was well spiritual world everyone should be equal, but that’s not so, because if you’re in Vaikuntha, rasa is different from that of Goloka. Even if you’re in Goloka, madhurya rasa is more intense than sakhya rasa or dasya rasa or shanta rasa. So there is gradations in the spiritual world also.
So can we change? And the answer is, if everybody changed there wouldn’t be any rasa except madhurya rasa in Goloka. Everyone would become a gopi. Vaikuntha would be empty, mother Yasoda would disappear. Everyone would become gopis. That doesn’t make any sense.
So therefore, we have different rasas and they’re fixed and people attain that through sadhana and then they remain fixed in those positions. Otherwise the whole spiritual world become very unstable.
Devotee: So everything works in relationship of love to Krishna in whatever or wherever you are.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. So they have love.
Devotee: But what about Putana. She became the mother of the Lord, she developed love. Because she ended there, so she has to develop some kind of special ..
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well yeah. By the mercy of Krishna she developed, not by her choice. Well her choice was she dressed up like a gopi. That was the only thing she did. So Krishna was merciful and gave her a position of a nurse in the spiritual world. But then it was more indirect and therefore that love was weaker than actual vatsalya rasa of one who’s like the mother of Krishna or the whatever. So therefore they get something. That’s all the mercy of Krishna in that case.
In the case of sadhana and we have mixed sadhana that’s our choice. And even if there’s devotees saying practice pure bhakti. No no, I like this bhakti better. Then that kind of fixes the way we advance and fixes the amount of attraction, we have for the Lord in the spiritual world. And then it becomes fixed, then you cannot change it at that stage. So therefore you end up with a weaker relationship.
7.) Maharaj, you were mentioning about how liberation can be attained even in bhava stage. Did I understand that correctly, even at bhava stage then also somebody can get liberation?
Well technically bhava is still got some anartha in it. And then we get to prema. However in the spiritual world we still have these different stages that bhava or rati stage prema, sneha pranaya, man, anuraga and raga and mahabhava.
So even that bhava stage is there. It’s but it’s different from the bhava in the material world because the bhava the material world still has some anartha. So the spiritual world no. So people who there that have rati in the spiritual world don’t have any anarthas. But it’s class is less than the prema because it’s weaker.
8.) So in Vaiknuntha what kind of, because they know about Krishna prema, Vishnu prema?
In shanta or dasya. So there is prema. We see even in shanta, the Kumaras had shanta rasa for Vishnu. And therefore, when Vishnu appeared at the gate after they were blocked by the Jaya and Vijaya, Vishnu came out and the Kumaras developed sattvika bhavas. They began trembling hair stood on end. You know they all those sattvika bhavas manifest. So that’s a sign that they did have you know rasa in shanta rather than just rati or whatever.
9.) So is it my understanding correct that the Kumaras actually didn’t go out of the material world but they went only to the Garbhodaka ocean, is that correct, Maharaj?
Oh no. Well they are Shakty-avesha avatars. So they can act they’re eternal and they have spiritual bodies. So they can also wander around anywhere. But their main mission is to preach jnana. So therefore, they’re kind of they don’t end up in the highest positions in the spiritual world usually.
10.) Because the devatas, it was my understanding that when they go to Vishnu and then they pray for Purusha sukta and all they don’t actually go to the Vaikunta but they go only to milk ocean.
They go into the milk ocean which is in the material world. They can’t even see the Lord, because they still got material bodies. Whereas the Kumaras actually have spiritual bodies like Narada Muni. So they can go anywhere.
Okay. Hare Krishna.
Devotee: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam Ki.. Jai !! His Holiness Banu Swami Maharaj ki Jai !! HDG Srila Prabhupad Ki.. Jai!!