Srimad Bhagavatam 11.10.36-37 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 19 April 2021
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 10 Verse 36.
ŚB 11.10.36-37
kathaṁ varteta viharet
kair vā jñāyeta lakṣaṇaiḥ
kiṁ bhuñjītota visṛjec
chayītāsīta yāti vā
etad acyuta me brūhi
praśnaṁ praśna-vidāṁ vara
nitya-baddho nitya-mukta
eka eveti me bhramaḥ
Synonyms
katham — in what way; varteta — he is situated; viharet — he enjoys; kaiḥ — by which; vā — or; jñāyeta — would be known; lakṣaṇaiḥ — by symptoms; kim — what; bhuñjīta — he would eat; uta — and; visṛjet — would evacuate; śayīta — would lie down; āsīta — would sit; yāti — goes; vā — or; etat — this; acyuta — O Acyuta; me — to me; brūhi — explain; praśnam — the question; praśna-vidām — of all those who know how to answer questions; vara — O the best; nitya-baddhaḥ — eternally conditioned; nitya-muktaḥ — eternally liberated; ekaḥ — singular; eva — certainly; iti — thus; me — my; bhramaḥ — confusion.
Translation
O my Lord, Acyuta, the same living entity is sometimes described as eternally conditioned and at other times as eternally liberated. I am not able to understand, therefore, the actual situation of the living entity. You, my Lord, are the best of those who are expert in answering philosophical questions. Please explain to me the symptoms by which one can tell the difference between a living entity who is eternally liberated and one who is eternally conditioned. In what various ways would they remain situated, enjoy life, eat, evacuate, lie down, sit or move about?
Purport
In previous verses Lord Kṛṣṇa has explained to Uddhava that an eternally liberated soul is beyond the three modes of material nature. Since a liberated soul is considered to be beyond even the superior mode of goodness, how can he be recognized? By false identification with the modes of nature, which produce one’s own material body, one is bound by illusion. On the other hand, by transcending the modes of nature, one is liberated. However, in ordinary activities — such as eating, evacuating, relaxing, sitting and sleeping — a liberated soul and a conditioned soul appear to be the same. Therefore Uddhava is inquiring, “By what symptoms can I recognize that one living entity is performing such external activities without false ego, and by what symptoms can I recognize one who is working under the illusory bondage of material identification? This is difficult, because the ordinary bodily functions of liberated and conditioned personalities appear similar.” Uddhava has approached the Supreme Personality of Godhead, taking Him as his personal spiritual master, and wants to be enlightened about how to understand the differences between material and spiritual life.
Since the living entity is sometimes called eternally conditioned, how could he ever be considered eternally liberated, or vice versa? This is an apparent contradiction, which will be cleared up by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Thus end the purports of the humble servants of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda to the Eleventh Canto, Tenth Chapter, of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, entitled “The Nature of Fruitive Activity.”
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So here is Uddhava inquiring about the symptoms or the lakshanas by which one will understand these two different types of persons mentioned here in the last verse 37, that is nitya-baddha and nitya-mukta. So in one sense, there shouldn’t be too much confusion. Because obviously the person who is bound up will be disturbed, lamenting, angry, subject to three modes in very extreme ways. A liberated person will be very peaceful. However, we will also find people who are still bound by the material world who may be relatively peaceful. And therefore, that type of person and the liberated soul will be very similar. This of course is speaking of a soul in the material world.
Technically, a person who does sadhana and attains liberation is not called a nitya-mukta. The nitya-mukta never gets contaminated by their own material nature, therefore he doesn’t have to do any sadhana. However, we can say in one sense that the person who does sadhana and gets, attains prema and the nitya-mukta are very similar. However, as long as that person who does sadhana and attains prema is in the world, he still has a material body. The nitya-siddha never has a material body. So, for instance, we have many of the associates of Krishna in Vrindavan, like the cowherd boys or the cowherd men and women. They are nitya-siddhas. So, they don’t have material bodies. They have eternal spiritual bodies. And therefore, they are not subject to birth and death. The devotee who does sadhana and attains prema, on the other hand, then, he will have a material body and at a certain point, he gives up that body. And then he attains a spiritual body, which is quite different from the material body.
So the worshipper of Krishna in the material world may be young or old or from different countries of the world, like America or Europe or India or wherever. But that body is given up and then they attain a body which is different in the spiritual world. So, once that person who did sadhana attains his spiritual body in the spiritual world, then he is quite similar to the nitya-siddha, nitya-mukta. The only difference was that the history is different. One was in the material world and got out of the material world. The other was never in the material world.
So, once the person who did sadhana has attained his spiritual body in the spiritual world, then he doesn’t take a material body. So those who are the nitya-baddhas, who are bound up in the material world, always have material bodies. But, if we say nitya-baddha, then the term means that they can never attain prema and get out of the material world. So therefore, the term is not quite accurate. So, the nitya-baddha, by mercy of devotees, he can start the process of bhakti, he can get prema, then he can get out of the material world.
So, sometimes the word is not used by our Acharyas so much, the nitya-baddha. Because there is the possibility that, that person who is bound up can become unbound. So, if one doesn’t get the mercy of devotees and start bhakti, then the possibility of getting out of bondage is very, very little. So, the process of karma yoga will not get you out of that bondage. If one takes to jnana or yoga, there is possibility of getting out of the bondage. But, it is quite difficult. And, with that liberation, those jivas do not get prema.
So, the jivas in the material world, they are in bondage. And, whatever stage they are at, we can trace the previous body, previous body, previous body, previous body, back to the first day of Brahma’s life. Where were they before that? So, the scripture says, all of the jivas are sleeping in Maha Vishnu. Where were they before that? They were in another material world. It’s described, after the material world is destroyed, all those jivas merge into the body of Maha Vishnu.
So, we can say, well, if they go to Maha Vishnu, they must be liberated. So, no, it is not real liberation. It is temporary suspension of the laws of karma and taking material bodies and birth and death. However, when a jiva goes into Maha Vishnu, his karma is not destroyed. And, when he comes out of Maha Vishnu, then the karma begins to operate again. And, according to previous, previous, previous karmas, he gets his first body in the new universe under Brahma.
So, just as, after our life of Brahma and universe is destroyed, everything merges into Maha Vishnu, then it comes out again, and Vishnu creates all the universes with all the jivas in. Then again, He will destroy everything, and everything will merge into Maha Vishnu. In the future, this will go on forever. There’s no end. So similarly, in the past, it went on, previous creation, previous creation, previous creation, previous creation, previous creation. So, no end. No beginning and no end. So, no end to the creation, destruction of the material world. No end. No beginning to the karmas of the jivas there. So therefore, we say, nitya-baddha. However, any jiva who has all of this beginningless karma, etc, if he takes to the process of bhakti, then he can destroy all that karma and get out.
In the introduction to the Bhagavad Gita, Srila Prabhupada mentions there are five eternal things, or five elements that we will discuss in the scripture. So, we have Supreme Lord and jiva, prakriti, time, and karma. So, the first four are eternal. No beginning, no end. So, the Supreme Lord, the jiva, prakriti, and time have no creation and no destruction. Time has no beginning, but can have an end. So, in this way, the jiva is bound up, but there is possibility of stopping that bond. So in the material world, some jivas, they ascend to sattva guna. And when they get to that stage, they develop sattvic qualities. So, they have qualities like sama and dama, sense control, mind control. They are very peaceful. So, this is material quality. Now, the devotee who has attained prema, he may appear to have similar qualities. So, there may be some confusion there between the baddha jiva, who is in sattva, and the devotee who is in prema. Of course, even for the nitya-siddha, and even for Krishna, sometimes there is confusion. The materialists will think that they are also baddha. So, they have spiritual bodies.
Krishna has spiritual body. Sridama and Sudama and Radha and the Sakhis, Nanda and Yasoda, they all have spiritual bodies but the materialists think, well, they have material bodies also. Look, they look like us. They look like cowherds. So, for the materialists, or the gross materialists, even the person with the spiritual body from the spiritual world may look like a material person. Of course, this is particularly true of Krishna and His associates.
So, the scriptures describe that Krishna is paraṁ brahma narākṛti. He is Supreme Brahman, but He has a human form. So, because of that human form, the materialists may think therefore Krishna and His devotees have material bodies. If the form of the Lord is quite different, like He is a four-armed Vishnu form or Narasimha Deva or Varaha, then one should not be so confused. But even then, the materialists may think, oh, that’s a material form.
So, for instance, Krishna showed the universal form to Duryodhana. At one time when He came to make peace in the camp and try to negotiate some settlement before the war. And then Duryodhana tried to capture Him. So, then Krishna showed universal form. So, when Arjuna saw that form, then he said, oh, now I understand Krishna, you are the Supreme Lord. Duryodhana saw that form and said, oh, Krishna has played a trick like a magician.
When Hiranyakasipu saw Narasimha Deva, then, of course, he was very surprised. He said, oh, this is likely Vishnu, Vishnu is a material person. So I will fight with Him and I will kill Him. So, the materialists will be confused even about the Supreme Lord and His most remarkable forms. What to speak of being confused about devotees? So, in any case, those who are spiritually inquisitive could understand the difference between the bound jiva and the liberated jiva. And then, the person has to understand the difference between a liberated person and a person in prema.
In the second chapter of Bhagavad Gita, Krishna describes the sthita prajñā [ Bg. 2.55], one who is situated in knowledge, very calm, not disturbed, etc. But the devotee may have some of those qualities, but then he has some unique quality also. So, what is that quality that distinguishes the devotee from the jnani or the yogi? So, the devotee will always be speaking about Krishna. So, that is not a very difficult lakshana or characteristic or symptom to see.
So, we should not be confused about these different types of human beings. Based on that, then we choose our association. As I said, of course, that the samadarshi, he sees everything equally. He doesn’t distinguish the cow from the elephant, from the brahmana, from the sudra, from the mleccha etc. But the devotee at the madhyama stage must distinguish between different types of people. So, we must distinguish the materialist from non-materialist. He must distinguish the jnani and yogi from the devotee. And he has to distinguish the kanistha, the madhyama and the uttama devotee. And only by making these distinctions can he advance. Making these distinctions will determine how he associates with these different people. And that will determine his advancement.
Hare Krishna!
Q & A :
1.) Maharaj, we also see that some of the activities of the Supreme Lord, like Lord Rama feeling separation from Mother Sita and things like that, makes a common man feel that the Supreme Lord is not spiritual and He is also material. So, in that sense, it is also not the fault of a jiva in that sense.
So, the nature of the Lord and His activities, they have plus points and minus points. Of course, for the devotee, everything is plus. All of the qualities and the forms of the Lord, etc, stimulate his prema. For the materialist, the Lord with His qualities and His activities may cause confusion. They may think, oh, He is just an ordinary person. And for that reason, many people, if they become spiritual, prefer to become impersonal. Who wants to go to the spiritual world and lament like Rama for Sita? Who wants to lament like the Vrajavasis when Krishna leaves for Mathura? So, better we don’t establish any relationships at all. So, for that reason, people will prefer to simply merge in Brahman. So, it takes a person with faith and bhakti to understand and appreciate the variegated emotions of the Supreme Lord and His variegated pastimes.
2.) Can a jiva become a Gopi in the spiritual world after attaining prema because jiva belongs to tatastha shakti or belongs to jiva tattva, whereas Gopis belong to hladini shakti. Just like jiva tattva cannot become Vishnu tattva, how can jiva tattva become hladini shakti? Request explanation.
So some Gopis like Radha are shaktis, hladini shakti of the Lord, but other Gopis are not. They are also jiva. It’s described in the Bhagavatam that, some Gopis who were separate, didn’t go to the Rasa lila because they were locked in their houses. These were the Gopis, they were sadhana Gopis who were attaining sadhana siddhi but not quite reached the final stage. It is also described that the sages of Dandakaranya, who were jivas, they became Gopis and the personified vedas also became Gopis. So, these are all jivas.
3.) If you work for Krishna like Arjuna, then is it karma yoga or bhakti yoga, Maharaj?
Well, Arjuna sets an example of karma yoga by doing his duty in fighting, but his bhakti consists of more than that. His role as kshatriya is there but he actually expresses pure bhakti for Krishna. And it’s for that reason that Krishna becomes a charioteer. He can only become the charioteer if He is controlled by Arjuna’s devotion.
4.) Maharaj, how important is it for a sadhaka to distinguish between nitya-siddha and sadhana siddha who are performing their lilas here for various reasons?
Generally, the nitya-siddhas will only come when Krishna comes. At that point, some of the people doing sadhana can join in the pastime. When the Lord is not present, then those Nitya Siddha devotees are not going to separate themselves from the Supreme Lord. So, they are wherever the Lord is. When the Lord is not present, then those nitya-siddha devotees are not going to separate themselves [Laughs] from the Supreme Lord. So, they are wherever the Lord is. Those who do sadhana and attain prema of course, then, they are here in the material world, then they are separated from Krishna, they are not part of His pastimes.
5.) Maharaj, you mentioned that, even sometimes the materialistics are very, very peaceful and we are not able to differentiate between those who are spiritual as well as material. On the other hand, those who are on the material platform, though they may externally be peaceful, the Bhagavatam says, manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [ŚB 5.18.12] that they are on the mental world, sometime or the other it will be exposed Maharaj?
Well, for the materialist, definitely this is so. They obviously take another material body.
6.) Is it correct that the conditioned soul always remain in the material world and were never with Krishna? But material world is created at some time whereas jivas always exist just like Krishna. So, where were the conditioned souls before material world is created? Kindly explain.
Well, I just explained that. They are in Maha Vishnu and before that, they were in another world. And then the world is destroyed, they all merge back to Maha Vishnu and they come out again. There is no first creation.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura premanande Hari Haribol!!!