Srimad Bhagavatam – 3.25.16 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | Sydney, Australia | Feb 25, 2026
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3 Chapter 25 Verse 16
SB_3.25.16
ahaṁ mamābhimānotthaiḥ
kāma-lobhādibhir malaiḥ
vītaṁ yadā manaḥ śuddham
aduḥkham asukhaṁ samam
Synonyms
aham — I; mama — mine; abhimāna — from the misconception; utthaiḥ — produced; kāma — lust; lobha — greed; ādibhiḥ — and so on; malaiḥ — from the impurities; vītam — freed; yadā — when; manaḥ — the mind; śuddham — pure; aduḥkham — without distress; asukham — without happiness; samam — equipoised.
Translation
When one is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed produced from the false identification of the body as “I” and bodily possessions as “mine,” one’s mind becomes purified. In that pure state he transcends the stage of so-called material happiness and distress.
Purport
Kāma and lobha are the symptoms of material existence. Everyone always desires to possess something. It is said here that desire and greed are the products of false identification of oneself with the body. When one becomes free from this contamination, then his mind and consciousness also become freed and attain their original state. Mind, consciousness and the living entity exist. Whenever we speak of the living entity, this includes the mind and consciousness. The difference between conditional life and liberated life occurs when we purify the mind and the consciousness. When they are purified, one becomes transcendental to material happiness and distress.
In the beginning Lord Kapila has said that perfect yoga enables one to transcend the platform of material distress and happiness. How this can be done is explained here: one has to purify his mind and consciousness. This can be done by the bhakti-yoga system. As explained in the Nārada-pañcarātra, one’s mind and senses should be purified (tat-paratvena nirmalam). One’s senses must be engaged in devotional service to the Lord. That is the process. The mind must have some engagement. One cannot make the mind vacant. Of course there are some foolish attempts to try to make the mind vacant or void, but that is not possible. The only process that will purify the mind is to engage it in Kṛṣṇa. The mind must be engaged. If we engage our mind in Kṛṣṇa, naturally the consciousness becomes fully purified, and there is no chance of the entrance of material desire and greed.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj
So this chapter is actually about bhakti, we have several verses here dealing with the purification of the consciousness, which is related to devotional service. Though ultimately the main goal of bhakti is Prema, which is love of the Supreme Lord, the previous verses don’t mention that at all; they’re talking about getting free of Kama and lobha, etc., which arise from material identity of Aham and mama. So these are contaminations in the mind, so we have to get that contamination out of the mind, and then we are free from material happiness and distress. That’s the basic statement here.
So we mention here that the mind has to be purified. We know of course, that the mind is also a material element. There’s always a discussion of the five gross material elements and then we have the subtle elements like mind, intelligence, false ego and we get more subtle things like Mahatatva and prakriti, all this is matter. So though the mind is matter, it is quite different from matter as we know it, and even the conception of mind that we have is also quite different from the conception of mind here. Because mind here is actually a substance as an element, We think of mind as simply a byproduct of your consciousness which is also a byproduct of your neurons firing in your brain or something. So it’s just a byproduct of matter, the consciousness and it’s not even a substance, it’s just some abstraction, but in the Vedic literature, the mind is actually a substance and but it’s material, of course, but it’s very important. Because though the atma is actually conscious, not the mind and the mind actually is dead, just like other matter, the consciousness becomes filtered by the mind as long as we’ve got this material body, gross and subtle. So, therefore, the only way we get our consciousness operating is because we have the mind [Laughs].
Therefore, in order to practice spiritual life, we cannot ignore the mind because that’s where the consciousness is emitted from our existence at the moment, because we’ve got a gross and subtle body. So that is why in the second chapter of Bhagavad Gita Krishna says you have to control the mind. Of course the mind is material but again you also have to control the senses, the senses are also material so though that is material, got nothing to do with atma, somehow or other the two things, mind, senses and body are intimately related to the atma at the moment and we cannot really separate them. They’re too closely entangled so much entangled that we go life after life and the atma takes another body and another body and another body and the subtle body with the mind, intelligence and ego that never detaches itself from the atma at all. And it sticks with us throughout the life of Brahma and then when we get another subtle body it sticks to us for another life of Brahma and then we keep on getting the gross bodies different. So the attachment of the atma to these bodies is very very strong and it influences us. So at the moment when we’re in our body with our subtle body and gross body we are conscious and it’s consciousness, the atma that makes the body and the mind and everything move but difficult to separate them. So when we practice devotional service or even jnana or yoga we have to try to control that mind and purify the mind as it is said here because if the mind has this impurity in it it drags us further into more bodies in the material world.
So we have to get rid of the kama and the loba that are described in this verse which arise from ‘aham’, ‘mama’, which means not only the mind with kama and loba are there behind that is the false identification which we can say is ahankara. So we’ve got to get rid of both things the kama and the loba which you can say is the vasana and behind that the false identity of ahankara and behind that of course is what we call ignorance itself. So that’s the analysis given in the scriptures the yoga scriptures and even bhakti scriptures. We’re stuck in the material world and we experience our happiness and our suffering because of our attachment to our material bodies but the happiness and suffering arises from karma.
Karma means we do some actions and that creates reaction. Why do we do the actions? Because we have the kama and the loba, we desire something, we want to get it or we don’t want something we try to prevent that thing from approaching us. So in either case we do actions to get what we want and avoid what we don’t want, and that’s caused because we have desire raga and dvesha, attachment and repulsion. So these are what we call the dualities that afflict us in the material world and they arise within the mind, and if we don’t control that then we do the activities and we get the suffering we get the karma and we get bound to another body, but then behind the vasanas or the desires the desires, the desire, the hatred etc. which are stored in the subtle body in the mind is this ahankara this false identity – ‘aham’, ‘mama’, ‘abhimana’ which is even harder to get rid of. That’s the root and behind that is even a more subtle cause, which we call avidya or ignorance.
So where is that ignorance? Ahankara is also a material element along with the mind and its by-products raga and dvesha etc., where is that ignorance? ignorance is very subtle, we can’t say it’s actually a material element, even though ahankara is actually a material element it arises from prakriti and mahatatva. The avidya is in the Jiva in the atma itself. The nature of samsara why the Jivas are ignorant? Why can’t they just sit in the spiritual world and have bliss? the nature of the Jiva is tatashta, which means borderline [Laughs]. Bhaktivinod gives the example of a – if we go to the ocean, so we have the water there with the waves coming in and we have the land which we call the shore. So we have two different realms water and land at a certain point there is a division and if you go over the line you’re in the water and you get wet, if you’re on the other side you’re dry. So there is a divisional line, in the border which is non-dimensional. A line is no dimension but between the two things there is that division and they’re either one side or the other. So that is the nature of the Jiva. So to speak, you can’t sit in the middle really because the line has no dimension either one side or the other you’re either wet or you are dry. So you’re either in the material world or the spiritual world. You are either in ignorance or in knowledge. But you can go either way. So this is the nature of the Jiva, they can choose one or the other you can choose material world and you’re in ignorance, you can choose spiritual world, you’re in knowledge. So that’s the option of the Jiva, that’s why he’s called tatashta on the borderline. One way or the other.
So each Jiva has that choice and if we choose material world choose of course is not time, if we have chosen the material world, then we sit here and birth after birth after birth after birth with no beginning, we continue to live here in ignorance. If we are in the spiritual world, we continue eternally there, without taking material bodies. Because we have an eternal spiritual body, we’re in bliss there, and we’re in sukha, dukha happiness and suffering in the material world. Anadi bahirmuka with anadi karma no beginningless karma, which pushes us from body to body to body to body to body in the material world. So then we have Jivas, because the Jiva is not one, the Jiva is many, and the Jivas are all tatashta, so they can have either one choice or the other. So some Jiva is material, some in the spiritual world. The law, however, is that if you’re in the spiritual world, you don’t fall into the material world; if you’re in the material world, you can escape and get to the spiritual world. But it’s not inevitable; it’s up to the Jiva. So that’s also we can say the tatashta nature. If you’re in the material world, you can choose to get out, but you don’t have to you can stay here also. So that’s the tatashta nature of the Jiva.
If you’re in the spiritual world, you never choose the material world. So this is the Jiva generally we talk about the Jiva in the material world because this is the problematic Jiva, and so scripture is there to get the Jiva out. But it depends on the choice of the Jiva, that’s all. So that’s why, we say that we can never force Jivas to believe in scripture or accept the directives of scripture it’s up to the Jiva to choose. If they choose, fine if they don’t choose, we can do nothing about it. So shraddha or faith is the prerequisite for beginning the process of bhakti. We have to have faith in the scripture, faith in the directives of scripture and the willingness to follow it. If we don’t have that faith, what can we do? That’s the choice, so that’s the tatashta nature of the Jiva. So Jiva is in the material world if he gets faith, then he can choose scripture, and there’s the promise that you can get out of the material world. We follow the process of bhakti; we get out, but it’s up to the Jivas.
So though the karma is anadi, the karma can have no beginning but can have an end. There is a logical argument: if it has no beginning, it should have no end; that’s kind of people will think like that, but our acharya is saying no, it’s not a logical conclusion to think that. So though it has no beginning it can have an end. There’s a subtle example given to illustrate that which is a little intellectual. So there’s something called non-existence abhava, an object exists. Abhava is a state of non-existence. The book does not exist, so that’s one state. If it did not exist, it never existed, it couldn’t have existed, then non-existent and exist again if it is abhava, there’s no beginning, the abhava is the anadi and then someone decides. I’ll make a book and he gets some paper and whatever and sticks it together, binds it together and puts some typing in or whatever like that, we get a book so when the book is produced, the abhava state ends. So we have a beginningless state of non-existence and when the object comes into existence, the abhava ends. So that’s an example of something without beginning having an end the state of abhava. So, therefore, that’s the definition of karma, giving to us no beginning, but it can have an end.
It can have an end, if the Jiva so decides. Of course, this isn’t of Jiva, because the Jivas in the material world are so influenced by material energy, it is very difficult for them to make choices, and generally they don’t. So plants and animals don’t make choices to get out of the material world. That chance is given to human beings, who are more developed in consciousness and generally intelligent human beings who develop the consciousness, which means at least they’re not small children, they’ve grown up to some extent, maybe they’re 5 years old or 18 years old or whatever, and they’ve got their free will operating nicely, they can choose. Still the human beings are also affected by gunas, so if you’re in tamo-gun or rajo-gun you’re not likely to make good choices. You’re controlled by karma and loba and whatever anger or krodha, everything. These things are great influences, so you can’t really make proper choices, because of the great influence there, so you don’t choose, you choose to stay in the material world, you choose to do activities to get your happiness or whatever, and you commit sinful activities, and you’re suffering. So, as long as you’re afflicted by the lower modes, tamo-gun or rajo-gun, it is very difficult to choose properly. Only if you get to sattva, then the nature of sattva, the qualities mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita, are satisfaction, which is not exactly material satisfaction; it means satisfied internally, so you have a sense of atma. Satisfaction and understanding that we’re not the body, we are the atma, so this manifests naturally in sattva guna. So in other words, through sattva guna itself, one gets a spiritual inclination of sorts, not absolute, but at least atma realisation or tendency.
But human beings do not naturally progress from tamo-gun to rajo-gun, sattva on their own; they just go up and down, up and down, up and down. They may stay in the lower gunas forever, stay in tamo-gun, rajo-gun, and they may sink down to an animal, come up again, go back down again, so it’s not inevitable, you rise to the gunas either. So the Supreme Lord makes an arrangement to help the Jivas. What is that? Dharma ! Follow scripture follow karma yoga follow system of varnas and if you follow those rules of the varnas, the lower varnas like tamo-gun, rajo-gun that is the sudra, vaisya you can rise up to kshatriya nature, rajo-gun, follow rajo-gun, you can rise up to sattva-gun and become Brahmanical. So in other words, by following that system that the Lord prescribes the varnashrama system gradually, the human being can raise his consciousness over many lives up to sattva. If you don’t do that, it’s all haphazard you may or may not fall and rise or whatever so that’s one arrangement of the Lord to get you to sattva. Once you get to sattva then you understand, ‘I’m not the body, I’m the atma’ and you become qualified for jnana yoga or astanga yoga and you can strive to get out of the material world. So the Lord supplies methods, karma yoga, jnana yoga, astanga yoga, to gradually purify yourself, purify the mind as is said here and then go for liberation, that much is arranged by the Lord through the gunas themselves.
So, one who goes through the system then will feel, yes, I get to sattva-gun, I become brahmanical, study the scriptures, and I attain liberation, and I think that’s the end. So that that’s what is preached in the scriptures itself, artha, dharma, kama and then moksha. Moksha is the ultimate goal of everything so then people will think yeah, I get to moksha eventually through four life varnashram system and getting to sattva-guna and doing jnana yoga and then I’ve achieved the goal of scripture. So that’s the common belief among people in the modes that they will finally get up to liberation.
But as we see from Bhagavatam and from Caitanya Caritamrta, that actually is also false. Beyond liberation is Prema, and if we miss the Prema, then we’re also condemned. So over and over in the Bhagavatam, it talks about, you go for liberation, that’s useless. We reject liberation like a drop of water in the desert useless, useless, useless even though it’s the very goal of artha, dharma, kama to get to moksha then Bhagavatam says useless in comparison to prema. So, only a very fortunate person gets to that highest level, of course, even to get to liberation is very rare, because you have to go through this whole varnashram system and get up there then. But to get to the process of bhakti to get to prema, that is even rare so that person is considered to be, you know, topmost person, the Vaishnava. So this is glorified in the Srimad Bhagavatam; the devotees of the Lord are glorified because they’re very rare. They have understood the highest goal, so that is when the Jiva actually gets faith, and he chooses the process of bhakti; he becomes the devotee or the vaishnava very, very auspicious event; however, this looks very rare ultimately.
But what Bhagavatam is stating that, though it is rare because it’s beyond even sattva-gun, which is rare in itself because of the nature of bhakti, being non-different from the Lord and being transcendental to the material world, and the Lord is full of mercy. That process of bhakti is for everybody, not just for the topmost people who’ve got from sattva gun, and then they go to bhakti. It’s for everyone, which sounds radical, because everyone else is stuck in the gunas, and they’re stuck in their varnas, and they’re struggling to get up and up and up, and you can’t go beyond your varna, you know, in this lifetime, very limited what you can do step by step. And then Bhagavatam says, forget about all your varnas, forget about all your gunas, don’t worry, give up your dharmas, just practice bhakti. So very revolutionary in one sense, because the sages go to such lengths and all the smriti shastras like Manasmriti to enforce people and inculcate the idea to follow your dharma, if you don’t follow your dharma, everything is useless. Bhagavatam says, forget your dharma completely, just do bhakti, worship the Lord. That’s the highest goal, of course. In order to do that, you have to have that faith, but the faith does not depend on the gunas. So you could be in tamo-guna, rajo-guna, sattva guna, you could be a sudra, you could be a brahmana or you could be a mleccha. If you have faith, you do the bhakti, and you surpass everything else so that’s the nature of bhakti; it actually doesn’t force you to go through this gradual system of purification.
So though this verse is talking about purifying the mind of kama and lobha, etc. Then people will think, ‘okay then I’ve got to do jnana yoga, I have to do astanga yoga to get rid of all the impurities in the mind, control the mind, control the senses, very important.’ But NO, and Prabhupada mentions in the purport we’ll see in the next verses that ultimately all this control of the mind and purifying the mind is accomplished through the process of bhakti yoga. If we don’t do that, then yes, then you have to do jnana yoga, but if you do jnana yoga first, you have to get the sattva guna. Therefore, you have to go through the whole varnashrama system to get the sattva guna and then become a brahmana, then you can control your senses and practice jnana yoga and astanga yoga. So very, very long process, but if you do bhakti yoga, then you can accomplish this easily. And the bhakti yoga does not require you to go through tamo-guna, rajo-guna, sattva guna like that, through the whole system it operates independently of that. So that is why the process of bhakti is recommended in Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita, that’s why Krishna says give all dharmas and just surrender to me. Not that we reject it, because it is scripture. And you can follow but because the goal highest goal of prema is accomplished by bhakti alone and whatever is accomplished by jnana or by karma yoga is automatically accomplished by bhakti yoga also. So therefore just do bhakti yoga easiest process, don’t distract yourself easier and quicker process.
So we are talking about the purification of the mind, and the mind is material, so we got to somehow get all of the vasanas and the ahankara out and stop it all from operating. In the Patanjali’s yoga sutras, he defines yoga as stopping all the functions of chitta, that is, your material consciousness, including your mind, intelligence, and false ego, You stop everything that is yoga. But as mentioned here, it’s very difficult to do that and once you do that, fine, you get liberation. So in bhakti yoga we don’t stop the mind or the senses we engage them even though they are material with the provision one, senses and mind are directed towards Supreme Lord mind and senses will need an object to focus on, not something impersonal, so they need a form. So we have the form of the Lord, serve the form of the Lord, hear the name of the Lord, look at the form of the Lord. We engage our senses so the object of our senses is Supreme Lord that’s nice. As well as that we’re following the very basic definition of bhakti, that is Krishna anusilanam, cultivating a relationship with the Lord, with affection and that is actually the cultivation that takes place in the Jiva. We’re using the senses and the mind, but they’re material things and we’re directing to the Supreme Lord but with affection, that’s not a mental thing. It’s something we’re cultivating in the Jiva, so that affection is not material affection, where it’s the natural attraction that arises in the Jiva for the Supreme Lord, so we cultivate that by engaging the mind and the senses. So therefore that we use the mind and senses which are material mind and senses do not give karma, they do not give material effects they do the opposite, they destroy all your karma and it produces more affection for the Lord in the Jiva.
So, in other words, we get a spiritual result in the Jiva from engaging our mind and senses in Krishna, so that is the process of bhakti. So, the bhakti process is not material. The process of yoga and jnana – they arise from sattva gun itself. The process of bhakti is the spiritual shakti of the Lord in the spiritual world, that is the antaranga shakti of Krishna – Hladini and Samvit shaktis. So it’s quite different, so that that shakti, bhakti shakti gets planted in the heart of the Jiva and we cultivate that little seed to make it grow and we do that by first engaging our senses in service of the Lord. So that’s this process of bhakti very special, it is not equated with karma, jnana or yoga, it’s quite different, arises from Krishna and it lodges itself in the Jiva and we develop it by this process of engagement
Q&A
1.) Maharaj you were mentioning about the subtle body changing in the day. I just want to understand whether my understanding of what you said is this way. Initially, you said that the subtle body changes every day of Brahma or.. ?
No, no, it goes with you, throughout the whole life of brahma [Laughs]. But your gross bodies keep changing all the way through each day of Brahma. But the subtle body sticks to you as long as you’re in the material world in life after life of Brahma. You get stuck with your subtle body. Of course, when Brahma disappears, and all the Jivas disappear, and all the universes disappear, yes, the subtle body also must disappear. Because it’s material mind, intelligence, mind merges into intelligence, intelligence to false ego, false ego merges into Mahatatva, Mahatatva merges into prakriti. So all the subtle bodies also must disappear ultimately; all that is left is prakriti and Jivas without their subtle body or the gross body and then they go into deep sleep in Mahavishnu.
Then they come out, and because they start developing a little desire to enjoy the material world again, the Lord pushes them out. And they go into universes and then what happens is, their karmas are not destroyed from the previous universes. So wherever they left from previous universes, their karma is still stuck to them and they end up going back into body again with that karma, with the subtle body and then the subtle body the karma sticks into the subtle body and it gets held there and then you acquire more karmas and more karmas, it sticks into your subtle body and that subtle body goes with you and pushes you into gross bodies again.
2.) If the subtle body is not there, at the end of the life of Brahma, How is it restored ?
Your karmas remain, yeah, karmas are very subtle, they’re not material at all. They’re like it’s described in Bhagavatam, we have material elements, gross material elements, then we have the subtle material elements, mind, ego, all this, up to mahatatva and prakriti, it’s all material. But then we’ve got something else, which is part of Maya also, which is not substance at all, time, it’s part of the material world, but it is not matter, it’s not prakriti at all, it’s something else. Time and karma – these are very subtle aspects of maya, which belong to the material world, but they’re not substance.
3.) Maharaj, you were talking about that, bhakti yoga is the easiest, because you don’t need to have qualification and you don’t have to wait for multiple lifes like varnashrama, so the question that comes is that the Jiva is stuck in the material world because of the misuse of the free will and so I said that when somebody starts the process of bhakti and in a way the starting of bhakti itself is I’m acknowledging in a sense that I’m not I don’t want to be in the material world so I’m kind of I’ve made a choice again. So why do I have to go through the whole process of anartha nivarti and all the struggle and go to sudhanaam and then you leave. So, because I’ve already chosen with my free will that, I want to go back to Krishna, but then it looks like that alone is not enough, even though that is enough for me to be stuck in the material world, it is not enough for me to go back. Why is that?
Well, we have a choice to choose to get out, and then of course we have mercy, and if you get extraordinary mercy, you can get out immediately, that’s called krpa-siddhi, but the normal process is sadhana-siddhi. So you do some practice also to get out, that’s the normal process. Why we say that one is that to give a material example, it’s not perfect. If you were a gardener and you like to grow some fruit, then you realise that I have to plant the seed and I have to make it grow, and it’s going to take some years to get the plant to get up to a middle size, then we’ll get some flowers, and then finally it will begin to get fruit. But it’s going to take maybe five years, ten years to get to the fruit stage where we can actually get the fruit. We can also think well that’s too long, I don’t want to wait, that’s long let’s jiffy up the process so you can probably get some hybrid something or other and put some extra fertilizer on and give it more sunlight and do all sorts of things to make it grow faster and faster and you may get some get half the time you may get some fruit. But generally, that fruit may not be so sweet; it will be fruit. Like we get modern fruits in this safe way and whatever they don’t taste like anything because they’ve done this and done that put it together make it ripen or falsely ripen do something to make it look nice and whatever but it may not taste nice or may not be nourishing, generally when a thing naturally develops then it has a better taste. So in the same way, when we develop bakthi through the Sadhana very gradually but naturally so to speak then the final result which is Prema has better taste than the one that you get from this Kripa ,more Rasa.
Devotee: Then we can say that like you know, when we read in the scripture, we say just show Damodar lamp, that we won’t take birth again, and all of that. So, even those kind of people are going to achieve that, but that Prema is not that much tasty?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can get immediate results, of course, destroying our karma is even a lesser stage than that means liberation. So that’s even less of a taste [Laughs], and also one thing is that, we can get very fast results, if you have no aparads in previous lifetimes or this lifetime, then the whole thing is very quick, even without the extraordinary mercy, the sadhana itself becomes very quick. If there’s been aparads in previous lives or this life, then we get a slower effect.
4.) Maharaj, you are saying that, the soul is covered by ignorance and then behind this Ahankar – false ego and behind ahankar is you were saying that Avidhya, which is in the soul itself. So I haven’t heard of that before because generally I always thought the soul is such its by constitution full of knowledge. So how can ignorance be in the soul?
Well we say the soul has a capacity for knowledge is eternal by nature and it can experience bliss and at the same time we have the Jiva in the material world with a material body, which is not eternal [Laughs]. And he gets some sort of knowledge he has universities and so many things to get your knowledge or whatever or even if you’re an animal you’re perceiving things and getting a little bit of knowledge that way also. But all of that knowledge of course is covered by ignorance itself, because it’s filtered through our material body so to speak so it’s not real perfect knowledge, it’s got nothing to do with the knowledge of the Atma. So it is conscious, but it is kind of corrupted. And we get our happiness, which is the reflection of Ananda or whatever in the material world, so that’s our ‘Sat-Chit-Ananda’ in the material world, an imperfect replica as long as we identify with the material body.
We give up the material identity. Give up the Ahankara, we have Atma, in liberation state, which is Sat and there is consciousness of some sort. But it’s not consciousness of a particular object. So it’s kind of a diffused consciousness, which consciousness would be called Chinmatra. Consciousness itself which is not aware of an object. So even the Chit aspect of the Jiva is minimal we can say it’s there, but it’s limited. And we can say, yes the Jiva at that stage is blissful, because he’s not identifying with the material body. So he’s kind of in a natural state. He is not subject to karma, not subject to material happiness and distress, not subject to rebirth etc… So with absence of material stuff, that’s a kind of a bliss, but it is negative bliss in one sense, compared to the material world only.
Real bliss means, bliss of relationship with the Supreme Lord and rasa. That’s not there in the Brahman state at all. So the Jiva is there, free from material identity but does not manifest Ananda not to a large degree or even the Chit but at least Sat is there because there’s no material birth and death etc. So therefore he is a Jiva but he doesn’t really manifest Chit-Ananda nicely. If one takes to the process of Bhakti, gets out of the material world and recognizes the Supreme Lord and establishes a relationship then we can manifest the Sat-Chit-Ananda aspect, because we get a spiritual body with spiritual senses we perceive the Lord and then we interact with the Lord and we get Rasa. So that’s where the Ananda will manifest. So everything else before that is like little shadow states, it’s kind of there but it’s not developed. It’s like if you get to the Brahman state it’s like it’s developing your tree but not getting any flowers and fruit it’s there kind of but it doesn’t develop any further and it’s only when we get to do Bhakti that we develop the fruit and the flower.
5.) Maharaj you were saying that while explaining the concept of non-existence, that which has no beginning, then there is no end, that’s what some people say. But you were saying that, we can still have beginning
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes, Abava is an example.
Devotee: So again, my understanding was that, the soul’s existence in the material world is no beginning, in the sense that you can’t trace it out. But there was a beginning because at some point you left the spiritual world to come here. So there had to be a beginning, right?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, well, if you assume that, yeah, but as far as the statement Anadi Karma – Karma with no beginning. It doesn’t say there was a beginning, but we forget, NO. There is no beginning, that’s all. And based on that, then Baladeva gives the example of Abhava. No beginning to the state of non-existence. So in that example, you cannot say, well there was a beginning, because if there was a beginning to non-existence, that means the object existed before. Then it suddenly didn’t exist, now it’s going to exist again. But then you can’t have the same object existing again suddenly, once it’s gone, it’s gone, it’s a new object that comes into being, So any specific object, previously had a non-existence and never existed before, so therefore that’s Anadi in that sense.
Devotee: So if we just say the idea of Abava or nonexistence of soul, Is it correct to say that every single Jiva was in the spiritual world and came to the material world or were the people who were always the material?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah well, it depends on who we follow. So Baladeva when he gives that example, then it’s implying we’re just here, that’s it, finished, that’s all. With that example he gives when he talks about Anadi Karma. And that’s the same as this introduction of Bhagavad Gita the five eternals that’s all from Baladeva’s commentary actually.
Of course, Prabhupada also says in the letter we’re with Krishna and Rasalila, and we fell in a letter or something like that. Other places you’ll see, like in the third canto, he says you don’t fall from the spiritual world. So you get both. So this is where we get some confusion sometimes, just like with Vaishnavi Diksha Guru, everyone can become a Guru initiation in one letter, and then it says women cannot become Diksha Guru, so then you get both things, and then you have big contrary things. How do you explain it?
6.) Hare Krishna Maharaj Dandavat Pranams. You have mentioned that due to ignorance, the soul, which is tatastha Sakthi, will take a decision and come to the material world.
Without time consideration, no when it happened, that’s all.
Devotee: So, from where does the ignorance come?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, this is the tatastha nature of the Jiva. They can have ignorance, will mean.. not recognising the Supreme Lord; basically, that’s what it means. So, either recognise the Lord or do not recognise the Lord. Jivas in the spiritual world are never in that position; they always recognise the Lord. But Jiva by nature, can choose not to, and those that don’t choose to recognize the Lord are in the material world. So we have infinite Jivas, some choose the Lord, some don’t choose the Lord, because there is so much variety of Jivas. So Jiva means the capacity to fall into ignorance.
7.) You mention that Bhakthi Yoga will gradually increase the affectionate relationship with the Lord. Even while we are chanting, we are trying to concentrate on all those things. Still, we are increasing our relationship with the Lord on a gradual basis, because compared to the Lord, we are very small and our concentration is not that great, but we are trying to please him. So does that increase our affection with the Lord ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Like if even our attempts are imperfect ?
Devotee: Yes
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Because the Lord is very merciful and he realizes we are very imperfect anyway. So like we have the case of Gajendra, it wasn’t even pure bhakti at least we are practicing pure bhakti we are not asking please get rid of the crocodile daily I am suffering so much, please Lord get rid of the crocodile. But the Lord responded to that even though it is imperfect bhakti. Same with Dhruva. Dhruva wanted a kingdom, so he worships the Lord to get a kingdom, and the Lord gives him a kingdom also, but he gave him more than that, so these are examples of mixed bhakti, and the Lord does respond, so their bhakti is imperfect the Lord responds.
8.) Hare Krsna Maharaj, Dandavat Pranams. Does our senses, like our mind attach with our soul?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Think of it as a covering, not only the mind, but the gross body, the senses and the subtle body, mind, intelligence, false ego, they are like cover or obstruct the atma and its consciousness, so the only way the atma expresses consciousness is through the subtle and the gross bodies.
Devotee: Though we do the Bhakthi, sometimes we fall down. If our Athma is hearing the instruction, why we fell down?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, we have the atma and of course the atma is if we are devotees then of course with faith we choose the Lord. But even that choice is not 100%. So we cultivate a relationship with the Lord through the process of bhakti it becomes 100% in prema, maybe with bhava it is 98% or 95% if we are in sadhana, it is less than that. So at the very beginning, maybe 1% or 0.5% of bhakti we are trying to cultivate we all has maya the other (part of) Jiva, kind of divided and still has attraction for material things, Ignorance is there but at least made some choice there, but it is not so strong and therefore the Jiva can waver at that time but by the process of bhakti gradually the bhakti increases and the choices of maya decrease and decrease.
9.) Maharaj, you were saying that, when devotees practice bakthi it is not like the way other yogis do. The other yogis or any practioner they go to the stages of Karmayoga, jnana yoga, dhyana yoga and so on. In the case of Bhakthi, we are kind of jumping over all stages and directly doing devotional service to Krishna is done. So someone who is practising Bhakthi still needs to develop other qualities like other yogis, for example, control of mind, control of senses…etc.. so someone who is practicing Bhakthi, even though they have the highest process, do they still need to go through the lower status for example, if I am practising Bhakthi, am I still required to reach the bramha budha platform and understand that kind of bramhan realisation is etc.. ?
So by the practice of bhakti, whatever you accomplish through karma yoga, the positive things of jnana yoga, and astanga yoga are automatically achieved through bhakti. So, sense control, mind control, if we concentrate on Krishna and nothing else, automatically, we get sense control [Laughs]. Therefore, we don’t strive beyond the process of bhakti. Well, I got to do a little yoga now to control my breath and control my mind by doing bhakti yoga itself, you get better results of controlling the mind, controlling the senses, etc.And the same with jnana or whatever like that.
As for as realising atma, we are serving the Lord as an atma. We say we are eternally the servant of Krishna, so that doesn’t refer to the body; it refers to the atma. So automatically, when we are talking about bhakti and serving the Lord ,atma is included there [Laughs]. So you go to the spiritual world, it’s atma serving the Lord with the spiritual body, it’s not the material body at all. So serving the Lord means we are serving in our spiritual identity. So when we do bhakti, then we are negating our material identity completely, and we are establishing our atma identity, which is superior to just being I am not the body, we are something, but we are not, we have no particular form or whatever in bramhan.
Devotee: So devotee get Brahman realization ?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Beyond it.
Okay. Hare Krishna
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupad ki jai!!!