Srimad Bhagavatam 3.27.16 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON New Govardhana, Australia | 4 March 2026
Oṁ namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3 Chapter 27 Verse 16.
ŚB 3.27.16
evaṁ pratyavamṛśyāsāv
ātmānaṁ pratipadyate
sāhaṅkārasya dravyasya
yo ’vasthānam anugrahaḥ
Synonyms
evam — thus; pratyavamṛśya — after understanding; asau — that person; ātmānam — his self; pratipadyate — realizes; sa-ahaṅkārasya — accepted under false ego; dravyasya — of the situation; yaḥ — who; avasthānam — resting place; anugrahaḥ — the manifester.
Translation
When, by mature understanding, one can realize his individuality, then the situation he accepts under false ego becomes manifest to him.
Purport
The Māyāvādī philosophers’ position is that at the ultimate issue the individual is lost, everything becomes one, and there is no distinction between the knower, the knowable and knowledge. But by minute analysis we can see that this is not correct. Individuality is never lost, even when one thinks that the three different principles, namely the knower, the knowable and knowledge, are amalgamated or merged into one. The very concept that the three merge into one is another form of knowledge, and since the perceiver of the knowledge still exists, how can one say that the knower, knowledge and knowable have become one? The individual soul who is perceiving this knowledge still remains an individual. Both in material existence and in spiritual existence the individuality continues; the only difference is in the quality of the identity. In the material identity, the false ego acts, and because of false identification, one takes things to be different from what they actually are. That is the basic principle of conditional life. Similarly, when the false ego is purified, one takes everything in the right perspective. That is the state of liberation.
It is stated in the Īśopaniṣad that everything belongs to the Lord. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. Everything exists on the energy of the Supreme Lord. This is also confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Because everything is produced of His energy and exists on His energy, the energy is not different from Him — but still the Lord declares, “I am not there.” When one clearly understands one’s constitutional position, everything becomes manifest. False egoistic acceptance of things conditions one, whereas acceptance of things as they are makes one liberated. The example given in the previous verse is applicable here: due to absorption of one’s identity in his money, when the money is lost he thinks that he is also lost. But actually he is not identical with the money, nor does the money belong to him. When the actual situation is revealed, we understand that the money does not belong to any individual person or living entity, nor is it produced by man. Ultimately the money is the property of the Supreme Lord, and there is no question of its being lost. But as long as one falsely thinks, “I am the enjoyer,” or “I am the Lord,” this concept of life continues, and one remains conditioned. As soon as this false ego is eliminated, one is liberated. As confirmed in the Bhāgavatam, situation in one’s real constitutional position is called mukti, or liberation.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So this is a nice philosophical verse talking about identity. And of course, when we become free of our false ego, then we understand things as they are. This sounds a little bit abstract, but of course this chapter itself is dealing with an analysis of the material world. And so it’s dealing with a lot of technical factors. And of course, ultimately, devotees may wonder, why do we have to discuss this material world? It’s just a bunch of matter, dead matter. So why don’t we just talk about Krishna instead [Laughs]? Let’s just read 10th canto, don’t read the 3rd canto and 4th canto. [Laughs] Too much philosophy, too much discussion of material elements, which we don’t even want to associate with. Unfortunately, we see that Bhagavatam is filled with such explanations starting from the 2nd canto, 3rd canto, 4th canto, 5th canto, etc. We have all of these explanations of how the material world is created, how Mahavishnu glances and creates prakriti. And then prakriti divides up into, or manifests prakriti into the elements. Elements are analyzed in terms of gross elements, subtle elements, etc. They combine to form universes, etc. All these details are given repeatedly in the Bhagavatam. And of course, we may wonder why we have to learn all this again and again, since the object of our realization is Krishna, who doesn’t belong to the material world at all. So, nevertheless, we see that not only in Bhagavatam, we’ll find in all the Puranas and in the Upanishads and all the other Vedic literature, same emphasis is also there with a great analysis of the material world. So, it is true that we’re not really interested in the material world. Rather, we want to concentrate on Krishna, in His wonderful spiritual form, pastimes. We do have to recognize our own position and our false identity in this material world. And it’s also very difficult to get out of that false identity. So, here the statement is made. Okay, so, finally you realize that you’re not the body and you’re not the false ego, whatever, and you understand what is real. But, to get to that position is very difficult. We may analyze it philosophically through all of these statements in the third canto and other cantos, but still, we come back to our body again [Laughs]. We keep thinking in terms of our body. We wake up in the morning and we’ll say, I’m tired. Well, it’s not the soul that’s tired, it’s your body that’s tired [Laughs]. Or, you get burned and you say, it hurts. So, it’s your body that hurts. You have a car accident, you break your leg or whatever. It’s your body again, but we identify with it so strongly that we’re always subject to the miseries of this world, which don’t really exist because the atma cannot be burned, cannot be cut, cannot be drowned or anything. So, it’s difficult to get out of this conception of our material body.
So, the scriptures give us detailed analysis of this false world or the world that we identify with, which actually is not our real identity, with the hopes that after understanding all this, we understand that this also is some arrangement of the Supreme Lord. And we can also use it in a certain way so that we can get out of the illusion. But we do have to understand it to some degree. Just as if you’re trying to cure a disease, then you will have to study medicine, and you also have to study the body, organs of the body, etc, material or whatever. You need some background information before you can actually produce a cure. So, that is why we have all this different information.
In Caitanya Caritamrta there, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that actually, scripture has three subjects, Sambandha, Abhidheya, and Prayojana. Prayojana, of course, means Krishna Prema. Everything about Krishna and the pastimes of Krishna in the spiritual world, which is the ultimate goal. And that we also find in Srimad Bhagavatam, where we have descriptions of avatars and descriptions of the pastimes of Krishna in the tenth canto. And, of course, we need that knowledge in order to give us some inspiration to attain that goal. So that’s the Prayojana. How to get to that Prayojana, that goal, that experience of spiritual love. And thus, we need a process. So that’s called the Abhidheya. And for us, the process is Bhakti Yoga. That’s also discussed in the scriptures. Of course, different scriptures have different goals, and therefore they have different processes. So, as Prabhupad is discussing in this purport, the mayavadis want liberation or mukti. So there’s a process for getting that liberation, or mukti. That is called Jnana Yoga or Astanga Yoga. And if you’re not that ambitious and you simply want to live in the material world with minimum disturbance and live a long life, then you do Karma Yoga, another method. There are different goals, which are also encouraged in the scripture. You have different methods. But the intelligent person will choose the highest goal, and therefore he’ll get the correct method to attain it. So highest goal is this Prema and the method is Bhakti Yoga. So, the method of Bhakti Yoga is described in Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita, and other scriptures also. So we have the Abhidheya and the Prayojana.
However, the third subject that is discussed in scripture is Sambandha, which literally means relationship. And what this deals with, the subject of Sambandha, is discussion of matter [Laughs], discussion of God, discussion of Jiva. All of the elements, or the factors, which we have to understand clearly, in order to determine our goal, and execute our process, that is Bhakti Yoga. So, in order just to get Krishna Prema, and enter into the pastimes of Krishna in the tenth canto, we have to follow a method. And to follow the method, then we need some other knowledge. We cannot just have a method without some knowledge also [Laughs]. So that is what Sambandha is. So broadly we can call this the philosophy section [Laughs]. What’s what? How to define matter? What is real? What is unreal? And of course, who is God? And of course, then we get into complicated issues. God has three natures, Brahman, Paramatma, Bhagavan. So He is of three types. So we get all these details given and it’s only after we understand this to some degree, that we can set the goal, concentrate on the goal, and practice properly. If we don’t have a clear understanding of all that, then our execution of Bhakti itself will be faulty.
So ultimately, yes, we have to do Bhakti. And Bhakti is basically a non-material process. We use the senses and the mind and the body. But in essence, it is the emotional intent of the atma itself, which we are practicing. That is the Bhakti. So we’re practicing so that the atma, or the Jiva, can develop feelings of love for Krishna. That’s what we’re doing. We’re using the senses and the mind, etc, to do that. But to do that properly, then we do need this knowledge, basically. Just as the goal of a person may be to be a doctor. And to do that, he needs a medical degree. To do that, there’s a process. That is, he has to go to college, he has to take certain science courses, he has to take certain medical courses, may be he has to do operations, may be he has to study anatomy [Laughs]. So he’s got all this background stuff he needs also in order to [Laughs] follow the whole process to get to the final goal. So similarly, we do need, to some extent, this background knowledge of what’s what.
In this particular case, it’s talking about getting rid of your false ego, or false identity. So, that’s quite clear. Just as when you’re in a sleeping state and you have dreams. And when you’re in the dream, you identify with it completely. And then when you get out of the dream, you forget about it. And we identify with this world [Laughs]. So we’re going from one identity to another. Dream identity to waking identity. But, scripture says the waking identity also is false. And then we have our other identity, beyond even the waking state. Of course, in scripture, that’s called the fourth state, turiya, the spiritual state. And when you get to that state, then you realize, oh, all this, what we’re living now, what we’re experiencing is all illusory, it’s all useless, it’s all not really what we think it is [Laughs].
But then, there’s a problem there. Because even if you get to that state, then there’s also distinctions there. So we do have, as Prabhupad mentioned, the mayavadi goal, which is to think of oneness, of the knower, the object of knowledge and the process of knowing. There’s no distinction, it’s all one [Laughs]. It’s just consciousness, with no object of consciousness, no action of consciousness, it’s just a state of consciousness. So that’s the goal of the mayavadi or the Jnana Yogi. So this is what we call Brahman. It’s also real. Why? Because God is real, and Brahman is part of God. So therefore, we can never reject it.
But nevertheless, we also condemn it, as devotees, because we also realize it’s not a complete realization. And a complete realization is realization of Bhagavan. So therefore, we prefer that. And we don’t want to get sidetracked by having a lesser realization. So even though we get rid of ahankara, we do have to be careful that we distinguish between the impersonal aspect and the personal aspect. The Brahman aspect and the Bhagavan aspect. If we don’t do that, we cannot do bhakti [Laughs].
So we need some knowledge, some distinguished knowledge to understand what’s what, what’s matter, what is spiritual. And then in spiritual, the distinguish between the impersonal and the personal. And even if we get to the personal, then we have to also start distinguishing, because we distinguish Krishna from Vishnu etc [Laughs]. So we have to make further distinctions. And if we want to attain Krishna, then we have to understand all about the nature of Krishna and how He’s different from Vishnu etc. So then, this requires knowledge. So apart from just reading tenth canto and the pastimes of Krishna, we do need some background in order to develop our devotion in the proper direction.
In Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s movement, of course, things have become even simpler. Of course, Lord Caitanya says, yes, we’re doing Bhakti Yoga. But actually, the essence of Bhakti Yoga is Nama Sankirtan, chanting the name of the Lord. And this process supersedes and surpasses all other processes, even the other processes of bhakti. So, then we may think, well, okay, we just do kirtan, we don’t need the scriptures, we don’t need all this anymore [Laughs]. But then we see that Caitanya Mahaprabhu, though He promotes Nama Sankirtan, He ordered His disciples, His followers to write books [Laughs]. So the Goswamis in Vrindavan wrote commentaries on Bhagavatam, and then Srila Prabhupad’s writing commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam, commentary on Bhagavad Gita, commentary on Caitanya Caritamrta, so though the emphasis is upon Nama Sankirtan, which is the highest process and independent of everything, we also do have an emphasis upon knowledge.
So, of course, there is the bad knowledge or the good knowledge. So we say we don’t like Jnana, which means knowledge, literally. What we mean by that is we condemn that knowledge which is restricted to impersonal Brahman, that Jnana Yoga knowledge, that we reject [Laughs]. But all knowledge concerning Bhakti, Supreme Lord, the process of Bhakti and all the philosophical elements necessary to practice pure Bhakti, that we accept. And it’s also necessary. So that’s why we have all of these scriptures.
Other movements, of course, make things a little simpler, and we see that many spiritual movements have sprung up in the last 50 or 60 years. And surprisingly, or I may say remarkably, ours is the only movement that has so much scripture [Laughs]. We have all these books, we have [Laughs], we’re trying to sell them [Laughs]. Other people, what literature do they have, spiritual movements? May be one book, one little book, may be they have, that’s it. And they have, you know, hundreds of thousands of millions of followers [Laughs], and then they have one little book, it doesn’t support the book, which isn’t even scriptural usually. And here we are, we’re having all of these scriptures, etc. So that shows that our movement, though it tends to be Nama Sankirtan, and relying on bhakti and emotions, spiritual emotion, etc, it needs a basis of knowledge, scriptural knowledge. That’s the basis. That’s why Prabhupad said books are the basis. So therefore, that’s why we have all these books, so we have all the knowledge there, and in that knowledge we have Sambandha, Abhidheya, and Prayojana. We have a balance of all of this.
So, we have all this technical matter of material world. Why we have to discuss it at all? Because, one reason is that we do not reject the world, we say it’s real. Mayavadis say the world is false. So basically, you don’t have to talk about it [Laughs]. But, we say, NO, world is real. It exists. And besides that, we also say, Jivas are real. They exist eternally. And Supreme Lord exists eternally. So we have these different real things. In mayavadi philosophy, only Brahman exists. There’s no matter, and there’s no Jivas. Everything else is illusion. Therefore, the goal is much different. The goal is only Brahman, or the impersonalist, the mayavadi or Jnana Yogi. But when we take to Bhakti Yoga, we make all of these distinctions. There has to be individual Jiva, there has to be a Supreme Lord, who is different. And, we’re in the material world, so we have to get out of the material world. It’s not an illusion, it’s actual bondage [Laughs]. We’re in the material world, and we have to get out. So, therefore, we have discussion of all these topics. Discussion of matter, what makes it real, etc, what makes it dependent on the Lord, etc. We have discussion of the Jiva, that he is eternal and real, individual, separate from the Lord, different from prakriti. And then we have distinction of Supreme Lord. And unless we make these distinctions, we cannot actually practice Bhakti properly.
In terms of chanting the Holy Name, of course, as I said, we put emphasis on Nama Sankirtan, chanting the Holy Name as the ultimate process for taking us to Prema. But, though, yes, the Holy Name is independent, non-different from Krishna, still. And, of course, name in any position, whether you chant it accidentally, impurely, or purely, it has great effect. Not denying that. But, if we chant the Holy Name and we desire Prema, then we need knowledge. So that’s why we have the books. Yeah, we’re doing Kirtan, but we have to chant purely, so therefore we have the books. So, that when we chant, we know our goal. We know who is Krishna. We know what is Prema. We know what is purity. We know what is impurity, all these things. So if we get the knowledge, then we can chant purely. If we chant purely, then we can get Krishna Prema. So, that’s why we do have an emphasis upon scripture. In fact, such an emphasis that everyday we’re supposed to have Srimad Bhagavatam class [Laughs]. So, we do chant, but then we do have to learn the scripture somehow or other, so therefore we have a study of Srimad Bhagavatam. And, through this combination, then we can execute Bhakti in a pure manner and we can actually attain our goal. So that is why we have all of this different knowledge, etc.
So, this verse is talking about realization that you are an individual, atma. And that when you do that, you have rejected the false conceptions of ahankara. So, that ahankara, it literally means identification of ‘I’ – ‘aham’. I identify myself as such. But, in the material world, we identify ourselves as material body, that we call false ego. But if you develop spiritually, if you get liberated, if you develop Prema, the atma does not disappear. And the ahankara also does not disappear. Of course, we are not going to call it false ego, but there is an identity and Prabhupad explained clearly in the purport. It is not too obvious if you get impersonal Brahman realization. It is just existence [Laughs]. But, there is an identity behind that also. If you get to Bhakti and develop Prema, then there is this identity. Of course, the basic identity is I am the eternal servant of Krishna [Laughs]. So, there is an ‘I’ there. So, each individual atma has a sense of ‘I’, eternally, constitutionally. It is covered over in the material world or transferred into the body with our false ego. And, in Brahman state, it is kind of minimized.
But, when we do Bhakti Yoga, then that ‘I’ also becomes manifest in its true form. I am the servant of Krishna, or I am a follower of Vishnu, or I am a follower of Rama or I have a particular rasa with Krishna. I like to serve Krishna as a friend, etc. So, all of this is an identity. So, as a Jiva, liberated in the spiritual world, you do not give up identity. You still have an identity. But, identity changes from false identity to true identity. So, we are identifying not about false body etc, I am the body. We are identifying the atma itself in relationship with Krishna. So, in this way, the identity of the Jiva remains. So, he does have a sense of ego even in the spiritual world. It is very important for him to keep that identity.
But unfortunately, in the material world, which is made up of gross material elements, material senses, and mind, material mind, material intelligence and material ego, ahankara. Matter actually consists of these gross and subtle elements which combine to make the bodies, for instance. And in that body, the ahankara functions to divert the consciousness of atma from atma or Krishna to material body. So, we get stuck in this identity. And we get stuck in this identity not for one birth, but for birth after birth after birth. Because our subtle body or sukshma sarira sticks to the atma, birth after birth and we [Laughs] we don’t give it up. So, though it is temporary in the long term, actually it goes with us birth after birth after birth and we can’t give it up. And we can’t give it up and that subtle body forces into a gross body also birth after birth. And so that ahankara stays with us birth after birth and we keep identifying with the material body. We develop bodies as human, plant or whatever, devata. But the ahankara continues to function birth after birth for us. That’s the false ego. And to get out of that is difficult, because we’re conditioned to this for whole lifetime of Brahma and previous lifetime of Brahma and previous lifetime of Brahma. So difficult to give it up.
So Jnana, very boldly, tries to destroy that false ego along with the mind, etc. But it’s a very difficult process and therefore for the Jnani or the Yogi to get liberation by destroying ego, false ego, accept this mind, karma, etc, takes a long, long time. Very, very difficult. Easy process is Bhakti Yoga. We don’t stop the senses or the mind or anything. We re-engage them. And the easiest process in Bhakti is chanting Krishna’s name [Laughs]. So this is the easy way to get rid of this situation of false ego, etc in the world. Chant the name of Krishna. By doing that we identify ourself as a servant of Krishna and we get rid of our false ego that way. So this is the most powerful and the quickest and easiest way to get out of this situation in the material world as described here. We’re covered by material energy and linked to the false ego.
Okay. Any question there?
Q & A :
1.) So Maharaj, we could describe Brahman as having no qualities, no activities and no form. What sort of function does Brahman actually serve?
[Laughs] So Brahman is an aspect of the Supreme Lord that you can realize. Just as you can, the atma can realize Bhagavan, His form, qualities, activities. Realizing Brahman is also something that the Jiva can do. But then as we said, no form, no qualities, no activities. And in addition to that, there is oneness. So you identify with that Brahman, even though it’s not, it’s Supreme Lord and His general manifestation like light or whatever like that. The Jiva completely identifies with that. So there’s nothing else. So in other words, you kind of merge with the God in that sense. Not really, but in the figurative sense. So we just identify, okay, I am that Brahman. And as I said, it is consciousness without any particular object. So what does that mean? It means that we’re free from false identity, free from karma, free from action, all that. So no more bondage in the material world, in that sense it’s very peaceful [Laughs]. So that’s the [Laughs] positive aspect.
But negative aspect for us is, well, you can’t do anything. You’re sitting there doing nothing [Laughs]. You’ve just got consciousness. That’s it [Laughs]. It sounds a little strange. So that’s why we say that, we don’t want that, and we want to have active nature, whatever but then, to do that, we have to accept that God has a form. I have an individual form.
Devotee: So the scientists, they talk about dark energy, trying to understand that. Is that Brahman they’re talking about?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, I would think that actually matter, prakriti is there, Mahat-tattva is there, then we have, of course, the elements, including the senses and the mind, etc. And even the elements, they’re all actually very subtle. And what we perceive in this world is grosser manifestation, when these things combine in certain ways [Laughs] then we can perceive it. So we can’t even perceive water, fire, air, ether. We can’t even perceive those things. When they combine in certain proportions, then we perceive flowers and building, etc. Otherwise we don’t even perceive that. And then, of course, the other subtle elements are there, the senses and the mind, false ego. Who can perceive false ego? But then more subtle than that is Mahat-tattva [Laughs]. And more subtle than that is prakriti, which is like the majority. It sits there. Nobody can detect it at all. So that’s all matter, but undetectable. But, of course, science says, well, we know by our theory, which may not be perfect, but by our theory we know that something exists there [Laughs]. But we don’t know what it is [Laughs], and we can’t perceive it. So maybe it’s all that matter that’s, you know, prakriti, Mahat-tattva, subtle senses, ahankara, etc., which are all actually matter. And even the subtle elements. That’s the stuff that is there. We conclude it’s there by theory, but we can’t perceive it [Laughs]. Maybe that’s the black matter. Which is 95%? It’s quite a large percent.
Devotee: 96%. Like they say, they only understand 4% of the universe.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So [Laughs] we don’t know much about [Laughs] material, even matter, what to speak of beyond matter [Laughs].
Devotee: So also, the subtle body includes the false ego, so that false ego impels us to identify with the body. So in the liberated state as I understand, that becomes pure ego.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: We have the real ego.
Devotee: Yes. So what function does the pure ego have in the liberated state? Because we’re not identifying with the body.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: When we study the Nectar of Devotion, there Rupa Goswami gives the definition of Bhava and Prema. In one definition there is ‘mamata’, which means possessiveness, a sense of Krishna is mine [Laughs]. So there’s an I and a mine. So we have the I and the mine in the material world which is pretty bad because it creates all sorts of illusions and problems. But in the spiritual world also we have this possessiveness of Krishna and the sense of I possess Krishna. So it’s inherent in Bhava and Prema itself in the very definition. So therefore, that type of identity is necessary to establish a relationship with Krishna. And it also increases our relationship with Him because we get more and more possessiveness. And that possessiveness ultimately depends on our own identity because possessiveness means mine. Krishna is mine. But then that mine depends on the I [Laughs]. So the identity is kind of intrinsic to Prema itself.
Devotee: So we go from identifying with the body, that I am the body, to?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: I am the servant of Krishna. I am a Gopi, I am a Cowherd boy [Laughs]. I serve Krishna like this and nobody should take away my service [Laughs].
Devotee: Thanks Maharaj.
2.) Thank you very much, Maharaj. Your classes are always so illuminating. It’s a privilege to have you. I wanted to ask, you did mention in the class that as devotees also we distinguish, you were talking about distinguishing, and we have made the choice to serve Radha and Krishna. So I just wondered why, and I’m not meaning any disrespect to these exalted demigods, but I’m just curious as to, because you also mentioned that worship of Radha and Krishna is the highest. I’m curious as to why, say, Lord Brahma, he worships Mahavishnu, I believe in Brahmaloka, and Lord Shiva worships Sankarshana. So, but there’s, like, there’s pastimes in the Caitanya Bhagavata where after Lord Caitanya delivers Jagai Madhai, all the demigods start dancing, Yamaraja, all the wonderful, they sort of have this wonderful Sankirtan, they’re rolling, Lord Shiva’s rolling on the ground. So they, they have that taste at times, and I’m just wondering why they would choose to not worship [Laughs] Radha Krishna?
Well, all these devatas, they are devotees of the Lord, and you look at Nectar of Devotion later on, they’re one type of rasa they have with the Lord, you know, dasya rasa, etc. However, they’re also, they do have their, they’re called adhikrita, which means they have assigned roles to play [Laughs] as devatas [Laughs].
So they have to play those roles, and Brahma has to play his role as the, you know, creator of the universe, and he sits up there and devatas come and complain to him sometimes. So, even though he gets realizations, even though, you know, there’s the Brahma vimohana lila, and then he realizes the greatness of Krishna, and he says, well, I would like to aspire to be like a grass in Vrindavan. What does he do? He goes back to his abode again [Laughs] at Brahmaloka, in spite of having this higher realization. Reason for that is, of course, because that’s his job. He can’t leave his job and that’s assigned by the Lord also. So ultimately we say, will of the Lord, though they do get higher realization, they are again put back in their positions to rule for whatever, like the devatas for a manvatara and Brahma for his whole [Laughs] life, and they get stuck in those roles, which is, of course, Krishna’s will and also their own desire. They desired something like that, so that’s why the Lord gives it to them. So they do their duties, they stick to their roles again [Laughs].
3.) Thank you Maharaj. My question is about the liberated soul, the Brahmavadis that achieve the Brahmajyoti. We have that description in Brhad Bhagavatamrta and Gopa Kumar actually sees them in there. So what’s the difference between the Jiva that’s fully liberated from the material condition and a Jiva in Vaikuntha that has a spiritual form? It seems that, what is that Jiva in the Brahmajyoti, it seems like it’s missing part of itself.
[Laughs] Yeah. So they are all Jivas but by their choice, in most cases, they have a different choice of how they want to realize the Supreme Lord. So if you want to realize the Supreme Lord in His most general form, that becomes like Brahman or light or whatever, and then you merge into it. Or, if you desire to have a personal relationship with God, you realize Bhagavan and then you go to Vaikuntha or Goloka or wherever and you serve Him eternally. It’s a matter of the Jiva and in these different states then, the Jiva manifests differently. So we know that the Jiva in Vaikuntha or Goloka, he’s a spiritual Jiva, but he manifests a spiritual form with spiritual senses, etc., in a particular manner. So he may become a four-armed form in Vaikuntha or a Cowherd boy in Goloka [Laughs]. And that form is non-different from his atma and it cannot be separated from him.
But the person who’s in Brahman doesn’t manifest anything like that, doesn’t manifest any conspicuous form at all. It’s all like oneness, even though he still is an atma. How does that arise? Because a particular desire is like that. We don’t want to serve the Lord really. We just want to be positioned in this peaceful state. And a particular sadhana is there, where the Jnani rejects senses, sense activity, form of God, etc, and concentrates simply on this formless Brahman with no activity. So that’s what the Lord gives him [Laughs]. Atma with non-material identity of sorts, but not developed spiritually. And for the devotee, of course, then the devotee is concentrating on serving the Lord eternally, and so the Lord gives him a place, that is salokya and a form, sarupya, in the spiritual world. And that becomes intrinsic to that jiva.
So we can say the jivas are actually different [Laughs]. They end up with different states, depending on their sadhana, and what goal they want. Of course, it’s the same even with if you choose to worship Vishnu, or you choose to worship Krishna, then you’re going to get different forms in the spiritual world [Laughs]. You get a four-armed form in Vaikuntha or you get a two-armed form in Goloka.
4.) Thank You for the class Maharaj. You were mentioning about the Holy Name and we hear that Krishna and His Holy Name are non-different, and in order to have that faith and conviction in the Holy Name, it’s emotions are connected, so we need to cultivate that Bhakti jnana to understand the potency and faith in the holy name. So is it possible that someone who, just by seeing or hearing briefly, for example, someone like Haridas Thakur that he chanted the Holy Name constantly, or someone like Vamsi Das Babaji Maharaj who may appear externally illiterate, but then that they cultivated that knowledge through hearing, and someone says, I just want to chant, just by hearing one brief account, would the Holy Name have that potency to give that person that knowledge and firm conviction in the Holy Name?
So anything is possible because the name is all powerful, and an example is given of Ajamila, who chanted the name of Narayana, not even with devotion, but then Vishwanath Chakravarti says, of course, he chanted the name, the first time by naming his son Narayana, he destroyed all of his karmas, past, present, future, he also destroyed the vasanas or all of the desires in the mind, etc [Laughs]. And then everything after that was a development of Bhakti, even though he hadn’t got any Bhakti and he hadn’t got any association, no mercy of devotees, no Guru, nothing [Laughs]. So he developed on his own, like, of course, he didn’t look like it, because he was still doing sinful activities up to the end of his life, but then he, you know, almost died and came back to life, became a great devotee, etc. So that’s given as an example of a person who just developed through the power of the Holy Name, he developed the Bhakti.
However, the normal case is that we want to have faith as the prerequisite to practice the Bhakti, and then we do it intentionally, not accidentally, as in the case of Ajamila, and when we do it intentionally, then we also want to do it purely, as I said, if we don’t do pure Bhakti, we do mixed Bhakti, we don’t get the same result, we don’t get Prema.
So therefore, we also should practice pure Bhakti and that’s what is outlined in Nectar of Devotion with anyābhilāṣitā śūnya. This is the, we do this in Sadhana to get to Bhava and Prema. So therefore, to do that, then we do need some knowledge. We have to understand difference between mixed Bhakti and pure Bhakti, difference between devatas and Krishna and whatever. Understand the name of Krishna and His form and qualities are non-different etc. So we do need that type of knowledge. So if we get some other thing, may be we commit offense or whatever, so we don’t develop in the same way. So under normal circumstances, yes, we chant the name, and we do need association and mercy of devotees to get on the path of pure Bhakti. It may not be Diksha Guru, it could be Siksha Guru, either, or both.
5.) I’m just wondering about the transition of a mixed devotee to a pure devotee. This realization is also probably mixed as well, like not being identifying with not just the body, but the mind, because the mind is also subtle, right? So it’s part of it, kind of false ego. I’ve heard it that most devotees, even if they do go back to Godhead, they don’t know who they are? I don’t know if that’s true in the spiritual world. No, I mean their real identity, like I’m a Cowherd boy, whatever. You know what I mean? That’s what I’m saying. The real identity, fully, like I’m a dust, or whatever, in the spiritual world. That’s what I’ve heard, that most devotees, they don’t know until they actually finally go back. I was just wondering if that’s true, and your view on this mixed devotee going through the purity of a pure devotee and full realization.
Oh okay. So, of course, mixed devotion is defined as we’re doing Bhakti, we’re worshipping Supreme Lord, we may not even be doing other processes, but we do have other motives in worshipping the Lord, other than just getting Krishna Prema and serving Him eternally [Laughs]. So, of course, in a more subtle way, we could want to go to Vaikuntha and have a nice spiritual body. That also becomes a mixture. Of course, it’s a little more elevated. Then the less elevated is, yes, I want to perform Bhakti, I want to get Prema, etc, but I do want to get some material enjoyment, and I’m going to pray for Krishna to get my material enjoyment in the material world, whatever [Laughs] [Pause] desires in there, other desires in there.
So, when we begin Bhakti, and of course we get knowledge from Bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupad’s teachings, etc and reading Caitanya Caritamrta, we understand about pure Bhakti. We begin the process of Bhakti. Ultimately, we’re not pure, because we still have anarthas, we still have material desires, etc, but nevertheless, that is called pure Bhakti in Sadhana, and we’re going through anartha nivritti. So, with that Sadhana of pure Bhakti, in which we do the process, or go through the process of anartha nivritti, getting rid of the desires, etc., gradually, through that Bhakti, the desires decrease, decrease, decrease, and become pure and pure and pure, until we get to Bhava, where it’s almost completely pure, and we get to Prema, then it is 100% pure. But, we have to start, also with pure Bhakti, in that sense. In other words, when we’re doing the Bhakti, even though we do have, still, false ego, material conceptions, lust, anger, greed, somewhere in our brains [Laughs] or whatever, still, we understand that definition of, we’re trying to serve Krishna, and when we’re serving Krishna, we’re not asking for Him, anything, except to serve Him, and to please Him. So, that’s our pure Bhakti, even though it’s not really pure [Laughs], because we’re still going through Sadhana. So, with that, we call it the pure Bhakti in Sadhana. When we get to Bhava, it’s purer. When we get to Prema, it is purest. But, if we don’t do this type of pure Bhakti in Sadhana, we don’t get to that pure result in Prema, we get somewhere else.
So, if you perform impure Bhakti, and, you know, have few desires there, whatever, even then, you can perform Bhakti and become more purified, more purified, more purified, and you can also get to the spiritual world eventually, when you agree to being purified, slower process, of course. But, still, the result is going to be different. Why? Because you didn’t practice pure Bhakti. If you practice pure Bhakti, you get a stronger result. If you practice the mixed Bhakti, your Bhakti is weaker in the spiritual world. So, therefore, if you practice pure Bhakti, then you develop particular rasas and then you get the Prema and bliss, etc from that. If you practice the mixed Bhakti, you end up may be with kind of a santa rati, a little peaceful existence there, and a little bit of salokya and sarupya, etc. But your Prema doesn’t really develop to more intensity because of that mixture in your sadhana. So, the Sadhana will determine the result you get.
So, there are some people who have a type of santa rati, which is actually lower than Prema, in the spiritual world. Some of these people have a very general attraction to the Lord. So, they may be attracted to Vishnu or Rama or Narasimhadeva or Krishna, a little bit of each [Laughs], switching day to day [Laughs]. So, that’s a type of santa rati in the spiritual world. So, there’s no particular strong relationship, a little bit of everything, kind of. Kind of a weak relationship with the Supreme Lord. That’s one type of thing that could happen. And, of course, there are other ways it could develop also, to get this weak type of santa rati. But Lord Caitanya, of course, this Bhagavatam, they’re teaching us that we should aspire for the highest things, that we want a real relationship with Krishna in a higher rasa [Laughs]. And to do that, then we should practice in Sadhana to do that. So, then we would practice pure Bhakti to get that.
Hare Krishna. Okay Haribol!
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupad ki jai!!!