Srimad Bhagavatam 11.11.12-13 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 6 May 2021
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 11 Verse 12-13.
ŚB 11.11.12-13
prakṛti-stho ’py asaṁsakto
yathā khaṁ savitānilaḥ
vaiśāradyekṣayāsaṅga-
śitayā chinna-saṁśayaḥ
pratibuddha iva svapnān
nānātvād vinivartate
Synonyms
prakṛti — in the material world; sthaḥ — situated; api — even though; asaṁsaktaḥ — completely detached from sense gratification; yathā — just as; kham — the sky; savitā — the sun; anilaḥ — the wind; vaiśāradyā — by most expert; īkṣayā — vision; asaṅga — through detachment; śitayā — sharpened; chinna — cut to pieces; saṁśayaḥ — doubts; pratibuddhaḥ — awakened; iva — like; svapnāt — from a dream; nānātvāt — from the duality of variety of the material world; vinivartate — one turns away or renounces.
Translation
Although the sky, or space, is the resting place of everything, the sky does not mix with anything, nor is it entangled. Similarly, the sun is not at all attached to the water in which it is reflected within innumerable reservoirs, and the mighty wind blowing everywhere is not affected by the innumerable aromas and atmospheres through which it passes. In the same way, a self-realized soul is completely detached from the material body and the material world around it. He is like a person who has awakened and arisen from a dream. With expert vision sharpened by detachment, the self-realized soul cuts all doubts to pieces through knowledge of the self and completely withdraws his consciousness from the expansion of material variety.
Purport
According to Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, a self-realized soul cuts all doubts to pieces by direct experience of his true spiritual identity. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Lord Kṛṣṇa, and there is no possibility of any existence separate from Lord Kṛṣṇa. Such expert knowledge cuts all doubts to pieces. As stated here, prakṛti-stho ’py asaṁsaktaḥ: like the sky, the sun or the wind, one who is self-realized is not entangled, though situated within the material creation of the Lord. Nānātva, or “material variety,” refers to one’s material body, the bodies of others and the unlimited paraphernalia for bodily sense gratification, both physical and mental. By awakening to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one completely retires from illusory sense gratification and becomes absorbed in the progressive realization of the soul situated within the body. As revealed in the example of the two birds in a tree, both the individual soul and the Personality of Godhead are completely separate from the gross and subtle material bodies. If one turns one’s face to the Lord, recognizing one’s eternal dependence on Him, there will be no further suffering or anxiety, even though one is still situated within the material world. The unlimited experiences of material objects only increase one’s anxiety, whereas perception of the Absolute Truth, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, immediately brings one to the platform of peace. Thus one who is intelligent retires from the world of matter and becomes a fully self-realized Kṛṣṇa conscious person.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So this continues this idea of being in the material body but being completely separate from the activities. Okay, So anyway, as the previous verse discussed, a person who realizes the atma though he is in the body is detached from it. So the examples are given here. Sun is reflected in water, but sun is not connected with that water. Wind picks up various fragrances, but it is not affected by those fragrances. Although the atma is within the body, within the world, one who has developed spiritual life is not affected by the body or the material world. Previously example of a person in the dream is also given. So when the person wakes up, he is no longer affected by the experiences in the dream. So in this way, the person should be fixed on the atma. Of course, we have already discussed that there’s actually two atmas in the body. One is the jiva, the other is the Supreme Lord. So for many, it is easier to realize the atma than to realize the Supreme Lord. And therefore, there is lot of emphasis upon understanding atma.
So the process of jnana is largely concerned with atma. And one realizes the atma within the body. But in jnana, this atma is generally equated with Brahman, everything. Even though, as we see the verse example, the atma and the Lord are different, in jnana, one identifies atma as Supreme Lord. Often, atma jnana and realizing the self are equivalent, the same thing as impersonal realization. And impersonal realization is often the same as the idea that I am God. So when that realization goes in this direction towards identifying oneself as Brahman or God, this gets condemned by the Vaishnavas. As long as that realization of atma does not go in that direction and simply gives the understanding I am not the body etc, then it is favorable for bhakti. Detachment from material enjoyment is favorable to bhakti. But when we limit the realization to realization of atma, then this is criticized. At the same time, as I mentioned, this realization of your not the body but the soul, this is quite a revelation for people in this world. If they can accept this, fine, this is one step in spiritual advancement. But if they end there and they don’t go any further, then this is problematic. So therefore this idea of realizing atma or self-realization has its positive aspect, it is useful in bhakti, at the same time it has negative aspect.
We often talk of self-realization. So, and this is also, we could say, a popular term for the people of the material world. If you talk about God-realization, they may not be so favorable. So therefore, we often use the word self-realization. However, we also have to be careful. We should not limit it to merely realizing atma. We should come to the stage of realizing the Supreme atma. So, if we take to the process of bhakti, both realizations are there. If we take to the process of jnana, only realization of atma is there. So therefore, the process of bhakti is more complete. Not is it only more complete, but it is easier. And not only it’s easier, it is also more blissful. And for that reason, the scriptures recommend the process of bhakti as the process for everything.
So, of course, as I mentioned, many people in the material world, they can accept the term self-realization. Similarly they can accept the term spirituality but not religion. So of course, that word spirituality also has a wide usage in terms of meaning. But because it includes both realization of atma and realization of the Lord, we can use that term as well. However, many people in this world actually have it referring to something else. That is, spirituality means more cultivation of the subtle body, material subtle body. So therefore, that of course is not spiritual at all. It’s actually material. However, that also we can say is one step towards real spiritual life.
So through the process of karma yoga, we purify the gross and the subtle bodies. A person in sattva guna can appreciate the subtle body over the gross body. And that sattvic body is favorable for realization of atma. So this is the introduction for many people in this world, a gradual introduction to life. And for that reason, the vedas also give many different processes so that people can gradually approach Krishna. So therefore, we have karma yoga and then jnana yoga, astanga yoga and then bhakti yoga. But they all have their place. But we should understand that none of them are final, none of them are absolute except the process of bhakti yoga. After the practice of karma, then we have to practice jnana. After the practice of jnana, then we have to come to bhakti. So, therefore, these processes are steps towards the final goal. We can also say that bhakti also is a step. So, we do bhakti and we get prema. But there is a difference here. When you start jnana, you give up karma. When you begin jnana, you give up karma. When you do bhakti, you give up jnana. When you do bhakti and you get prema, you do not give up bhakti. In other words, bhakti and prema are really non-different. So, one does many of the activities in prema that one does in sadhana bhakti. So after prema, then there is no other process. This is an eternal state. Whereas karma and jnana are temporary and are given up. And that absolute process has it’s two parts sadhana and then prema. So, the process itself is actually spiritual and eternal. So it is quite different from jnana and karma yoga. So if we want to get our realization of self and the Supreme Lord, then we are advised to take to the process of Bhakti. So this is the recommended process by which we wake up from this dream. This is the process by which we can remain in the body and be completely detached from that body.
Hare Krishna!
Q & A :
1.) Maharaj, even in the mode of goodness is it possible for someone to get stuck in the, upto level of subtle body and not go beyond that?
We can see that as you go upwards to Swarga Loka, Jano Loka, etc, Brahma Loka, the bodies, physical body becomes subtler and subtler. So, of course, as you go higher and higher, then you utilize the subtle body more and more. And therefore, what we call mystic powers are easily displayed by the people in other planets. So therefore, in this way, we can [Not clear] properly.
2.) When the soul goes to the spiritual world, the subtle body is given up at which stage? I heard in the lecture from another from an Acharya of another sampradaya that the soul takes well bath in the Viraja river, causal ocean which exists between spiritual world and material world and while taking bath the subtle body is removed. Kindly tell if this is true.
The subtle body is made up of material elements. In the spiritual world you cannot have any material elements. But as long as we are in the material world with material body, then we have to maintain the subtle body. When we give up the gross body, we also give up the subtle body, then we go to the spiritual world.
3.) Ksirodakasayi Vishnu resides in His abode in milk ocean and He is also present as Paramatma in the bodies of living entities and material atoms. Similarly do the jivas also simultaneously reside in the body as well as outside, as in out-of-body experiences.
So the jiva in the material world, of course, he can travel out of his body to some extent. But we can say it’s an extension of the atma, which can extend itself and become conscious of various things and places. But that consciousness is ultimately stuck to the soul, the atma. The atma is inside the body. So therefore, ultimately the consciousness has to return to that particular body.
4.) Maharaj, how do we keep ourselves in the mode of goodness, to have a favorable attitude for practicing bhakti when our surroundings are mostly passionate and ignorance?
Actually, we’re not striving to have a sattvic environment, we’re striving to have devotional environment, devotional [Not clear]. Of course, we can use sattvic things like sattvic food when we offer it to Krishna. Or we can have a sattvic environment, etc. If we can use them in Krishna’s service, then very good. However, if we don’t use them in Krishna’s service, then they can bind us to sattva. So that is another type of bondage in the material world.
5.) We learned that in all processes, tinge of bhakti will be there. When you told that when we do bhakti, we leave the jnana or astanga yoga, how it can be understood?
If we are qualified for bhakti, then that bhakti process becomes our main process. If there are some things in karma yoga or jnana yoga which are favorable for our spiritual development in bhakti, then we can use those things. But the main element always remains the activities of bhakti.
6.) Maharaj, can we say, though our philosophy is ultimate, to convince people in common the way of telling matters a lot. As you have mentioned, how people are generally open to spirituality and self-realization than being religious or God realization.
If the people are not too receptive, then we cannot preach to them. We say don’t preach to the faithless people. And even in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells Arjuna, do not disturb the minds of the ignorant people if they are not at the level of jnana. So don’t preach jnana to the people who are not qualified for jnana and understanding atma as different from body. So then we can ask the question, well, then, we’ll have to tell everybody to do karma yoga [Laughs]. But then this contradicts Krishna’s statement, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]: give up everything and just surrender to Krishna. But if we tell everybody to surrender to Krishna, then we’re preaching to the faithless. It’s an offense. So the devotee has to find ways of producing faith in the faithless.
7.) So does bhakti yoga include some of the aspects of other yoga processes and their respective goals?
Well, the process of bhakti is things like hearing, chanting, remembering, etc which are directly related to the Lord. Other processes may also include these as secondary items only. And without that bhakti, karma yoga, or jnana yoga cannot even be successful. So we can add some elements of karma yoga or jnana yoga to our process of bhakti, but ultimately, bhakti does not depend on those items. And at a certain stage, they can also be given up.
8.) Maharaj, if a person goes to bhakti step by step, like karma, jnana, manages to realize the atma but leaves the body without going to bhakti yoga, what would be his destination?
If he realized atma and got fixed in Brahman, then when he dies, he fixes his mind on Brahman, he can enter into impersonal liberation. However, if he is favorable to bhakti, then he can take another birth and associate with devotees, develop devotional service.
9.) A devotee who practices bhakti yoga, does he first realize atma or he first realizes Supreme Lord?
So we cannot separate two things. We do sadhana bhakti, we come to bhava stage. When we attain bhava, then we see the Lord. And of course, to see the Lord, then we have to have spiritual eyes. So the atma and realization of the Lord develop together.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura premanande Hari Haribol!!!