Srimad Bhagavatam 5.24.4-8 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Auckland | 19 March 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Reading from Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta Volume Two CHAPTER FORTY-ONE – The Battle for Bombay.
If Mr. N. was threatening violence, that also was not grounds for quitting the land. The devotees were on the land legally and should seek police protection.
Prabhupāda’s conclusive advice was that the devotees go to the magistrate and tell him, “We gave Mr. N. money, and now he is threatening violence to drive us away.” They should not be afraid.
Prabhupāda had not come to Vṛndāvana only to lecture; he wanted to begin construction on his new property. And the news from Bombay didn’t distract him from his purpose. Every day he would have the devotees hold a saṅkīrtana procession from the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple to the property at Ramaṇa-reti. He would also go out occasionally to see the site, still nothing more than grass huts, a wire fence, and a small stock of building materials. Subala, the disciple in charge of construction, was slow and reluctant, and Prabhupāda sent for Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami to come from Bombay and take charge.
Early one morning Subala left the land at Ramaṇa-reti, where he had been staying, and approached Śrīla Prabhupāda on the roof of the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. “Prabhupāda,” he said, “I am having so much difficulty. I don’t have time to read, I can’t chant my rounds properly, I can’t think of Kṛṣṇa. I’m always thinking of how this contractor is cheating us, or I’m thinking of signing checks for labor and materials. It’s just too much. All these things on my mind are stopping me from thinking of Kṛṣṇa.”
“Do you think Arjuna was simply meditating on Kṛṣṇa on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra?” Prabhupāda replied. “Do you think Arjuna was sitting in yogic trance, while on the battlefield Kṛṣṇa worked? No, he was fighting. He was killing for Kṛṣṇa. He was thinking of all the soldiers he had to kill for Kṛṣṇa.
“Thinking of the checkbook, thinking of the men, thinking of the contractors – this is also like Arjuna’s thinking. This is Kṛṣṇa’s service. You should not worry about thinking of Kṛṣṇa directly. Arjuna wasn’t sitting before Kṛṣṇa in a trance, meditating on His form. He was engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Similarly this is Kṛṣṇa’s service, and you should engage. Your life is full of Kṛṣṇa’s service, and that is very good.”
Subala was still unsatisfied. He complained to Prabhupāda that the other devotees wouldn’t cooperate with him. He wanted to go into seclusion in Vṛndāvana for the rest of his life and chant, instead of becoming a full-time preacher in ISKCON.
Śrīla Prabhupāda asked, “What do you mean, no one will listen to you? You think that means they are defective? No, you are defective.” Prabhupāda raised his voice. “If you are preaching and no one will listen, don’t think you should go away in disgust and save yourself by chanting. No, that is not our line. We must qualify ourselves so they will listen. Do you know the story of Mr. Beecham?”
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 24 Verse 4.
ŚB 5.24.4
tato ’dhastāt siddha-cāraṇa-vidyādharāṇāṁ sadanāni tāvan mātra eva.
Synonyms
tataḥ — the planet Rāhu; adhastāt — below; siddha-cāraṇa — of the planets known as Siddhaloka and Cāraṇaloka; vidyādharāṇām — and the planets of the Vidyādharas; sadanāni — the residential places; tāvat mātra — only that much distance (eighty thousand miles); eva — indeed.
Translation
Below Rāhu by 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles] are the planets known as Siddhaloka, Cāraṇaloka and Vidyādhara-loka.
Purport
It is said that the residents of Siddhaloka, being naturally endowed with the powers of yogīs, can go from one planet to another by their natural mystic powers without using airplanes or similar machines.
Text 5
Translation
Beneath Vidyādhara-loka, Cāraṇaloka and Siddhaloka, in the sky called antarikṣa, are the places of enjoyment for the Yakṣas, Rākṣasas, Piśācas, ghosts and so on. Antarikṣa extends as far as the wind blows and the clouds float in the sky. Above this there is no more air.
Text 6
Translation
Below the abodes of the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas by a distance of 100 yojanas [800 miles] is the planet earth. Its upper limits extend as high as swans, hawks, eagles and similar large birds can fly.
Text 7
Translation
My dear King, beneath this earth are seven other planets, known as Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talātala, Mahātala, Rasātala and Pātāla. I have already explained the situation of the planetary systems of earth. The width and length of the seven lower planetary systems are calculated to be exactly the same as those of earth.
Text 8
Translation
In these seven planetary systems, which are also known as the subterranean heavens [bila-svarga], there are very beautiful houses, gardens and places of sense enjoyment, which are even more opulent than those in the higher planets because the demons have a very high standard of sensual pleasure, wealth and influence. Most of the residents of these planets, who are known as Daityas, Dānavas and Nāgas, live as householders. Their wives, children, friends and society are all fully engaged in illusory material happiness. The sense enjoyment of the demigods is sometimes disturbed, but the residents of these planets enjoy life without disturbances. Thus they are understood to be very attached to illusory happiness.
Purport
According to the statements of Prahlāda Mahārāja, material enjoyment is māyā-sukha, illusory enjoyment. A Vaiṣṇava is full of anxieties for the deliverance of all living entities from such false enjoyment. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: these fools (vimūḍhas) are engaged in material happiness, which is surely temporary. Whether in the heavenly planets, the lower planets or the earthly planets, people are engrossed in temporary, material happiness, forgetting that in due course of time they have to change their bodies according to the material laws and suffer the repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. Not caring what will happen in the next birth, gross materialists are simply busy enjoying during the present short span of life. A Vaiṣṇava is always anxious to give all such bewildered materialists the real happiness of spiritual bliss.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So, there was a description here of the sun. Below the sun is Rahu. Below Rahu are these planets and the siddhas and charanas. Below that, is where the yakshas, rakshasas, and pisachas dwell. And then, 800 miles below that is the surface of the earth. And then below that, we got all these other planets, which are called the subterranean heavenly planets like bila-swarga, literally that means Swarga in a hole [Laughs], because they’re within the earth, which is like a big cave. So we have all of these places.
And then this last verse, which was verse 8, described the enjoyment there of these daityas, nagas, danavas, etc. And it’s a very nice enjoyment in one sense, because there’s no disturbance there. Whereas sometimes the demons, they ascend up into the heavenly planets and try to conquer and kick out Indra. And of course, even it’s said in Brhad Bhagavatamrta that even Brahma sometimes gets kicked out of his place by some demon [Laughs] temporarily [Laughs]. So that’s there. But nobody comes down and kicks out the demons [Laughs], because nobody wants to live there [Laughs]. But anyway, they said their enjoyment is very intense, but it’s material enjoyment. And covered with darkness, because they’re living in these big holes or whatever, caverns full of the earth. So, what this all indicates is that there is enjoyment in Swarga and above, which is the normal type of happiness we think of. There is Swarga on earth, Bhauma Swarga, in the places other than Bharata varsha.
So, Bharata varsha is one of the nine Varshas of Jambu dwipa with Mount Meru in the middle. Other Varshas are called Bhauma Swarga or Earthly Swarga. So, the Devatas, when they spend their punya they fall down to these places and enjoy for a time. So, they get greater enjoyment than we get in Bharata varsha. It’s also described that Bharata varsha is where you get the Yugas. Other places, you don’t get all the Yugas. You don’t get a descent into Kali Yuga in other places. So, we’re very special [Laughs]. So, that’s the earth and then we got the lower planetary systems. And it’s also called Swarga. So, you can get enjoyment there.
So, you can get enjoyment throughout the universe. The only difference is there is sattvic enjoyment, rajasic enjoyment and tamasic enjoyment. So, that’s the type of enjoyment. But, as Prabhupad mentions in the purport it’s all temporary enjoyment, whatever. It’s all ‘maya-sukha’, illusory happiness. So, all the living entities in all the different planetary systems are getting their enjoyment at these different places. But, it’s all temporary.
The whole universe is in a shell. Not a thin shell, a very thick shell. Made up of different layers of earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind and false ego, mahat-tattva etc. Seven layers, each ten times thicker than the last. So, it’s a huge, huge, if you calculate, it’s very huge [Laughs]. Maybe, if we take a little spot here, the whole room is the [Laughs] shell [Laughs]. Because ten times, ten times, ten times, ten times, I don’t know how long. It’s you know, it’s huge [Laughs]. And in that, we got this little hole. And in that, we got the planetary systems. We got all that covering.
So, it’s a big prison in one sense, the whole thing. Relatively speaking, of course, we think that the Bila Swarga is more of a prison. Because it’s all like in caves [Laughs]. Seven lokas in caves. And then, we get the earth, on top of that, we get the Bhu-mandala area. Not in a cave, but divided up by mountain ranges and oceans. So, we get the different dwipas, where there’s different living entities living. And we get the Varshas in the middle and Jambudwipa divided by mountain ranges. Everybody is limited to certain areas here. And subject to rajoguna. And then we get the upper planetary systems, all the way up to Brahmaloka. Very sattvic and pure. But it’s all within the material world. It’s all subject to gunas. It’s all subject to the law of karma. So, everybody is in this prison. All the Jivas that are in the material world are in this prison. So, as compared to a prison, because we got the thick walls on the outside. And, you stay within this universe, and you take body after body after body. And you can’t get out, because you’re trapped by your karma. So, as compared to a prison and we got the people in the sattva guna at the top. And the people in the [Laughs] rajo guna in the middle, then people in tamo guna in the basement, so to speak [Laughs]. But it’s all in the prison. Or we could say that the people in sattva guna have golden chains. And the people in the middle got silver chains, then people in the bottom got iron chains. But they’re all subject to birth and death, nevertheless. So it’s all a big illusion, the whole thing.
And all this is a construction produced by the Supreme Lord through His agents like Lord Brahma [Laughs]. So, it’s a particular arrangement. Just as if you build a building, a 7-story building, or a 20-story building, or a 50-story building, or whatever. You plan it out very carefully. And you make different layers, and different rooms, and different functions etc. Put everything together in a very nice way, so that it all functions properly. Same with the universe. It’s divided up into all these different categories. 14 planetary systems. And these are subdivided again. And why? Because the living entities need a place to live. So all the living entities are stuck in these different compartments. 14 compartments, according to karma. So, according to their karma, they end up in tamo guna, rajo guna, sattva guna, all these different subdivisions, etc. So everybody is bound up within in this universe, it’s inescapable, they’re bound by karma, etc.
The original question was asked by Parikshit to describe this whole system. To show how it displays the intelligence of the Supreme Lord [Laughs]. Of course, there is intelligence in designing the whole thing. Brahma gets that intelligence from Krishna. And then he can produce it. So that’s one aspect of it. But the other aspect is to how to place all the living entities within it, in the right place. So they held on to their correct bodies, etc. So all this is the other ingenious arrangement of the Lord and that is karma. So each living entity gets his body in particular planetary system, in a particular place, according to his karma.
So the word karma, of course, means action, reaction. But we have to understand that it is not that the Lord makes you do karma. It’s that you produce your karma and it follows the law produced by the Lord. So whatever position we’re in, in the material world, is self-created, svakrtam. We make it ourself. It’s our suffering, it’s our creation. We cause our suffering. If we have material happiness, it’s our creation, due to our actions. So living entities get all these different results, and they get placed in different places, because they get what they deserve, according to the law of karma. Along with that, you have desire. So we get the results of our karmas, our actions, plus we also get the results of what we desire. But what we desire is limited by the karma. So a person wants to enjoy it very nicely. To do that, then he will do different activities. If he does the activities in tamo guna, then he may get the enjoyment in hellish planets [Laughs] low birth [Laughs]. If he does activities with specific goal and not too much violence, he gets born in earthly planets. And if he wants to get his enjoyment, then he does activities in sattva he goes to upper planets. There’s different types of enjoyment according to his karma.
So, in this way, we have a world constructed according to the, and the living entities are placed there according to their desire and their karma. Nevertheless, all the Jivas in the material world are motivated by this desire. And the desire is to get some happiness, no matter where they are. But it’s limited by their karma. So they get placed in these different planetary systems. So all of this is under the arrangement of the Lord. The Lord has Brahma create all the places and all the bodies. The Lord supplies the law of karma. And the Jivas inherit their karma from previous creation of Brahma when they enter into this universe. And they continue to get their karmas. And the karmas don’t exhaust themselves. We create more and more karmas [Laughs]. So therefore, you can go up and down in the universe. You can go from earthly level to upper level to lower level, due to your actions, birth after birth after birth. This is exactly what happens.
However, this law only applies to the human species. Or devata, human, rakshasa, they’re all one category. They’re the ones who get their karmas. Not for animals, not for plants. So it’s the human being that goes up and down like this in the material world. The other species gradually rise up from plant to animal, then to human species. The whole plan is there. And then this whole plan is again under the Supreme Lord when He manifests the universes, when He glances as Maha Vishnu. And then He creates all the universes with planetary systems. It was more Brahma acting as an agent and putting the Jivas in there.
So why does the Lord have to do this? Why does He have to keep creating material universes? So it’s explained that Maha Vishnu is very peacefully sleeping [Laughs]. But all the Jivas are there without their material bodies, free of their material bodies. But their karmas are not destroyed. So at a certain point, the Jivas become a little bit restless. And then they want to enjoy again. So then they start waking up. And so the Lord produces universes for them to fulfill their desires according to their karma. And then we get all the universes and all the Jivas get stuck in there. And after a hundred years of Brahma, the Lord decides it’s too much for the Jivas, give them a little rest and then they all, everything disappears and they go back to sleep again [Laughs]. But then they wake up again and they start having same desires [Laughs]. So just as we go to sleep at night, then we wake up and we generally do the same things we did the day before [Laughs]. So this is what happens to the Jivas. They wake up again, they enter the universe and they continue where they left off before. And this is an unending cycle of anadi karma for the Jivas. So it’s a perfect system, a perfectly contained system [Laughs]. Jivas keep going through all these cycles repeatedly within the life of Brahma. And then from Brahma’s life to Brahma’s life to Brahma’s life within different universes.
So the question is, what’s the whole point? And on our own, it’s very difficult to figure that out. If we manage to get the sattva guna, then we do start asking, yeah, what is the goal of all of this? And we get glimpses of some imperfection in trying to get happiness from our material body. And therefore, a person in sattva guna begins to understand about atma and inner satisfaction. So at that point, the Jiva, who’s a human being, gets the opportunity to begin spiritual life and get out of the material world. And to help them, the Lord gives scriptures and different processes like jnana, yoga, astanga yoga, and bhakti yoga. So this is a method by which the Jivas can get out of the material world, even though in general it’s impossible. Most of the Jivas stay in the material world. A few manage to have the good fortune of getting to scripture and then practicing and getting out of the material world. So that’s another plan of the Supreme Lord. So we have the plan of the Supreme Lord for the Jivas who don’t want to get out, they just keep rotating like that. For those that have the possibility of getting out, then He supplies scripture and methods, devotees and avatars, etc. So the Jivas can work their way out of the material world. So, the second plan is there.
Third plan is that the Lord also allows the Jiva not only to get out of the material world, but to get another world, that is spiritual world. That’s even rarer. So, most of the Jivas stay in the material world, and to help them we get karma yoga scriptures to help them get upwards to Swarga loka etc. For those who want to get out of the material world, the Lord supplies jnana yoga and astanga yoga. That’s what they want. For those who are rarer, those who desire to go further than that, not just get out, but to get to the spiritual world, then the Lord supplies bhakti yoga. So, in this way we get all sorts of arrangements of the Lord to satisfy the Jiva. Arrangements for the Jiva in the material world, out of the material world, and in the spiritual world. So, the Jiva has opportunity to get his satisfaction on any of these levels. Those who are most ignorant stay in the material world. Those who are more intelligent get liberation. Those who are most intelligent take to the process of bhakti and get the spiritual world.
So, it’s up to the Jiva what he wants to do. But a Jiva is a little bit helpless. So, the Lord supplies knowledge, opportunities, and gives mercy at all levels so the Jiva can progress. And the ultimate mercy, of course, is to take to the process of bhakti, worship the Lord, and get to the spiritual world. So, the Lord helps most in that endeavor. And it’s most difficult, but the Lord gives the most help. If you want to get liberation or Swarga loka, the Lord also has to help the Jiva do that even. But His participation is minimum. And His own interest is also minimum [Laughs]. But if a person takes to the process of bhakti, then the Lord takes personal interest in those Jivas. In fact, the ultimate unique characteristic of bhakti is that it attracts Krishna. Whereas karma yoga, jnana yoga, astanga yoga do not attract Krishna. So, yes, He helps these people get their goals. But, if one takes to the process of bhakti, then the Lord actually actively and personally participates to help the Jiva attain his desired goal in spiritual world.
So, that is what makes the process of bhakti yoga easier, though it is also the rarest, and it is the highest and therefore most difficult to attain. So, it depends on the mercy of the Lord. That mercy is also manifested in the material world, sometimes directly by the Supreme Lord, but more commonly through the devotees of the Lord. And therefore, the Bhagavatam and other scriptures always emphasize the fact that you have to surrender to Guru and get his guidance to get out of this material world and get to the spiritual world. So, the Guru also is supplied by Supreme Lord. We get guidance from devotees because of Supreme Lord’s arrangements. So, the devotee is acting as the via medium for Krishna and His mercy. And if we accept that mercy, then we can get to the spiritual world.
It’s like electricity. Electricity goes from the generator through the wire to the light bulb. So, the via media is the wire. The electricity has to go through the wire. If we don’t have the wire, the light bulb is dead. So, we have the wire connecting it to the generators. The generator is Krishna. We are like a little light bulb. We need a connector [Laughs]. So, what’s the connector? A connector is something that very, very easily transmits electricity like copper wire. Similarly, the Lord is there. So, there has to be something similar to the Lord to convey the Lord’s mercy or His spiritual Shakti. Obviously, it has to be similar in Shakti [Laughs]. It cannot be grossly material. So, nothing material can convey spiritual Shakti. It has to be spiritualized [Laughs]. So, this is the devotee. The devotee is like the wire. Why is the devotee like the wire? Because he is practicing Bhakti and Bhakti is that Shakti of the Lord. So, the more the devotee is permeated with that Shakti, the better conductor he is. So, the devotees are like the copper wires and they can conduct the Shakti of Bhakti and mercy. And they can distribute to devotees and connect them to that Shakti also. So, in this way, the devotees act as the mediums for the Lord’s mercy in the material world.
We also get better conductors. So, we have copper wires. That’s generally the metal we use because it’s cheaper [Laughs]. But there are better conductors. Gold is a better conductor. Silver is a better conductor. But we can’t have our apartment blocks filled with silver wires and gold wires. That would be too expensive [Laughs]. So, we use copper wires [Laughs]. But if we have gold wires, then we get better conduction of electricity. Probably, the rate would be cheaper. There is no interference. Electricity is flowing very nicely. So, similarly, we have devotees in different levels. They all conduct, but then some will conduct better. Those devotees who have more Bhakti, more Shakti in them, they conduct Lord’s Shakti more. So, we have very advanced devotees. They can give more mercy. Of course, Lord’s mercy ultimately, but it is conveyed through those particular devotees. So, in this way, all the devotees get respect because they are all conducting the Lord’s mercy. But those who are more advanced, they conduct it better, so they get more respect. So, we respect all the devotees, but according to the hierarchy, we respect the devotees who are on a higher level. We give them more respect. It’s only natural. In any case, we have to respect all of the devotees of the Lord.
So, sometimes we select one devotee and we call him Guru [Laughs]. So, we shouldn’t think that Guru is just a name or a designation like Mr. So-and-so, or he is a professor of something or other, physics or biology or whatever. It’s not just a title. Just as we can name anything on a nice wire for conducting electricity, but it may not be [Laughs]. We can make a [Laughs] copper or iron wire and say, okay, this is our conductor, but it won’t work [Laughs]. So, just naming something is not enough. So, when we talk about Guru, we see, okay, he is a devotee, let’s say he is devotee. And for us, usually when we are talking about a Guru, he is a more elevated devotee. So, it’s a certain category of devotee. And then he can give us the mercy. So, therefore, the person has to select a person who is up to a certain level. And then this person who can convey that mercy of the Lord, or Shakti of Bhakti, he becomes a Guru.
In this way, the Jivas in the material world get delivered. So, Prabhupad at the end of the purport says this is the activity of the devotee. They are there to deliver all the Jivas from this cage or prison of the material world. Devotees are the persons who actively attempt to get the Jivas out. How they do that? They distribute the Lord’s mercy. So, they are mediums of the Lord’s mercy to get the Jivas out. So, this is all arrangement and plan of the Supreme Lord. Arrangement for the Jivas who want to stay in the material world. Arrangement for the Jivas who want to get out of the material world. So, the devotees are there particularly so that the Jivas can get out of the material world and get to spiritual world.
Okay, any question?
Q & A :
1.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Thanks for the class. My question is, these [Not clear] or the higher planetary living entities, do they get any elevation to the Vaikuntha or spiritual world?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Can they get to Vaikuntha?
Devotee: Yeah.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, for any living entity in the material world, no matter what their gunas, if they get the mercy of the Lord, they can go [Laughs]. Or if they get the mercy of the devotee, they can get out of the material world. It doesn’t matter. So, a person can be in Patala loka or in Brahma loka, if they practice Bhakti and get the mercy of the devotees and the Lord, they get to spiritual world.
Devotee: With Bhakti, they can practice anything?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes, Bhakti does not give regard for what guna you are in or what planetary system you are in. It can operate anywhere, everywhere. That is actually stated in the Catuh Sloki verses where it says this process is sarvatra, everywhere [Laughs]. Sarvada, anytime. So, everywhere in every planetary system, top to bottom of the universe. Of course, also in the spiritual world, Bhakti goes on. But in the material world, it can go on even in the lowest planetary system, up to the topmost planetary system. Everywhere, Bhakti goes on. So, there is no particular qualification by gunas or varnas or ashramas or anything. Why because it is special spiritual process, which surpasses the gunas and gives no regard for qualification of gunas. And thus, we see examples of this in our literature.
We have the example of Mrgari, the hunter. He was not even a sudra because he was not even following sudra rules. He was just killing animals and watching them die. So, he was the lowest of the whole, in tamo guna. He got the mercy of Narada Muni and then he became a great devotee [Laughs]. So, he had Bhava in three months actually [Laughs]. So therefore, the Bhakti is applicable to all people. It says in Bhagavatam that the dog-eater, who is also not part of, not even a sudra, not in the Varnashrama system because he eats dogs, a very low person who is born with bad karma, that person, if he chants the holy name of the Lord then he is superior to a brahmana. Suddenly, his, all the karma is gone, he is no longer in the Varnashrama system. He surpasses all the varnas [Laughs]. So, Bhakti is a very strong process. It doesn’t give regard for your position in the gunas. It does require usually the intervention of a devotee.
But we do see cases where something has happened without a devotee, not visibly at least, like in Ajamila’s case. He just named his son Narayana. Nobody was preaching to him. He just named his son Narayana and got rid of all his karmas [Laughs]. So, he was no longer a sinful, degraded brahmana after that point because he, holy name, got rid of his karmas without having Guru even. But it is explained that he did name his son Narayana because he got some previous mercy of a devotee in a previous life [Laughs].
Devotee: So, it seems like the Bhakti is quite easy but it doesn’t work out that way.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs] Well, it’s easy. We may not see the visible results on ourselves as Ajamila also didn’t see the results on himself that all his karmas are gone and nobody else could see them either. But sometimes, Bhakti is acting and we don’t see the results happening. It’s all invisibly, Lord is destroying karmas, this and that, whatever. So, we don’t see the visible results immediately in all cases.Of course, in the case of Mrgari, the hunter, after three months, he got Bhava. It was a very visible [Laughs] result [Laughs] in three months. So, that’s one aspect. We don’t see the visible results immediately. The other is that it is easy and it’s quicker if we compare it to other processes. So, if you want to do astanga yoga, okay, you have to renounce everything and live in a cave, whatever [Laughs], bathe in the icy water, Himalayas or something [Laughs], breathe air instead of food [Laughs], whatever, you have to do all sorts of things to advance, to get liberation. Same with jnana, very, very difficult process. And even if to do karma yoga, you have to do so much. And most people cannot do karma yoga, they are not even qualified to do karma yoga [Laughs]. First, you have to be born in the Varnashrama system, then you have to learn all the mantras, then you have to do all the sacrifices and whatever, so that the lot of technical knowledge is involved, or wealth, you can hire a brahmana if you are a great king, to do all your horse sacrifices or whatever. So, and that’s only to get to Swarga loka. Even that is very, very difficult. So, Bhakti doesn’t give regard for any of that, in that sense, it’s easier. And, of course, the result is quicker also, we get much quicker result compared to jnana, yoga, karma, etc.
Devotee: So, because of this illusive nature of Bhakti, that it doesn’t show its results, people don’t accept it so easily.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. Well, as Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, this is the king of secrets [Laughs]. The king of knowledge, the best knowledge is also secret, so not everybody is attracted to it. So, and of course, we are also, don’t preach this secret to the envious and the people with no faith. So, you know, it is quite rare in one sense. So, all the devotees can do, because Prabhupad says here, okay, we have to do it for everybody in the material world, but we can’t preach to the faithless people, how good is this to do [Laughs]? Without committing offense, by giving the name, preaching the holy name to the faithless people. What we can do is, if they do have faith, then we can preach to them directly. If they don’t have faith, all we can do is expose them to Bhakti somehow or other. We don’t preach but we give them prasadam and whatever, like make them hear the name, we can spread the name everywhere that way. In this way, that’s the beginning for them. And eventually they develop faith through that process.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. We hear in the Mahabharata, Bhima ascending a mountain and meeting the Yakshas and other encountering demigods while travelling to certain parts of the earth, does this indicate that higher beings exist on earth but are either accessible or not according to means we don’t have access to anymore?
Yeah, well, we see, even as they, describing Gajendra, he was living in some mountain range and that was very heavenly and whatever, and the devatas would come down or whatever, so it was a very heavenly type of place, but it was on the earth actually. So, our conception of course, is that we are stuck here on one level and then so many yojanas above, we will have, you know, Rahu and above that, we have the sun above that, we get the moon, we kind of think of everything as very fixed because we have these fixed distances or whatever. But, at the same time, if we have higher vision, then we can access different places without a feeling of distance or anything, we can suddenly be there.
Just as Gopa Kumar was in the spiritual level after he got to Goloka, he was there, but then he understood that he could somewhat suddenly be in the material world in Vrindavana also [Laughs] which is so far away in one sense, it’s beyond the material universe, beyond all the coverings of the universe, but in an instant he would be there just by thinking of it. So, distance has no meaning when you’re on a higher level. Of course, that’s spiritual, but then even on the material level, higher planets, and Swarga loka may look like they’re so far above the earth level, but if you are qualified to go to these places, you can go there instantaneously. So, the distance is no problem. The other thing, of course, is that there, the devatas themself come to certain places on the earth at certain times, but we can’t see them. But if you’re qualified, then you could see them [Laughs].
But in general, like Prabhupad says, in kali yuga, the devatas, they look at the place and they say, it’s useless, we don’t want to go there, it’s like the outhouse, it’s like the toilet vaccum or something, we don’t like to come to there, kali yuga, earth planet it’s useless [Laughs]. But in previous ages, we see that devatas did come and those who are qualified did see the devotees, but, of course, unqualified people couldn’t see them. So therefore, the devatas themselves can go to any place, higher beings or whatever, but we don’t necessarily see them. And then an advanced person on earth also can access these different devatas and places or whatever or see them, if he’s got the particular vision that qualifies him for such.
3.) Is it true that the devas and asuras are influencing the human society even today to meet certain ends, like how the danavas try to influence the battle of Kurukshetra through Duryodhana?
Well, there’s always influence. Devatas are concerned because they are trying to uphold the path of dharma for the living entities and we see that when Kamsa was there, the devatas get very upset, so they go to Vishnu because they have to interfere and He comes as avatar. So the devatas are there, concerns, so then they may influence, try best they can. At the same time, and, of course, the devotees don’t personally interfere and come down and do things unless they get permission from the Lord [Laughs]. So the Lord says, okay, I’m going to come, you come with me, you help me out, and then they can do it. Otherwise, they’re a little bit aloof in the whole situation. On the other hand, the demons, they don’t need permission, they just try to do everything they want [Laughs] and take control of the earth [Laughs] and take control of heavenly planets or whatever.
So there is this conflict between the deva and the demons going on and you’ll see this throughout the Bhagavatam. The demons decide to try to conquer Swarga loka and they kick out Indra and whatever like that. Sometimes they get up to Brahma and kick him out. So there is this continual conflict throughout the day of Brahma, throughout the life of Brahma where the forces of the demons and the devatas are you know, are in conflict all the time. So that’s a continual thing that’s happening. And the earth is often the battlefield [Laughs]. So they’re trying to get hold of the human beings and influence them one way or another. So yeah, the demons can try to influence people even in kali yuga in various ways. They can infiltrate the human society with their mentality and influence.
4.) Are black magic and saitanic rituals actually allowing humans to communicate with beings like rakshasas and beasts such as even today?
Yeah. Well, it can be done. Of course, just not everybody can do that but there are particular methods by which you can access different things. So we have worship in tamoguna, rajoguna and sattva guna So those people in tamo guna or rajoguna, particularly in tamoguna, then they contact the lower beings who are in Tamogon and then they may get powers from them. So there are particular methods of doing that but not very healthy, not very safe methods. And you can get their help but you get influenced by them also, so it’s very dangerous [Laughs]. And you fall under their control eventually.
5.) You mentioned the planetary systems below the earth and how they exist in a large cave-like region. Does this give any support to the modern idea like the hollow earth theory or should these theories be understood as completely different?
[Laughs] Well, I don’t know this hollow earth theory. I don’t know who started it. I think there was some person in Europe that started out with that in 19th century. I think it was like that. So where he got it from, I don’t know. But it could be based on legends because we do have legends and our stories in all countries, people under the earth or [Not clear] under the earth or somebody are coming out of the earth or whatever. So it’s always been there. And you’ll see that today even now people talk about it. We see these beings in the earth and we hear this music coming out of the earth and we go to the desk and we hear [Laughs] music coming out of the earth [Laughs], some strange music or whatever. So there’s always this suspicion that there’s people living under there. So it’s about constant themes throughout history. So, where, how that relates, hollow earth relates to, I think probably not influenced directly by this idea of the different locus below. But it’s quite similar in one sense.
6.) We know that the Jiva in the earth planet are limited by our gross body and senses, which is why we cannot perceive of the demigods slash higher beings whom are composed of subtle bodies. But how then is the asuras able to have contact with the demigods where frequently they are fighting with them? Are they too not composed of gross body as well because they reside within the gross lower planets? How are they able to perceive the subtle bodies of the demigods but we cannot?
Well, many of these demons, even it’s mentioned here that below the Rahu, the siddhas and charanas and the buddhas and whatever. So obviously they’re above the earth and they do have subtler bodies than us, or their gross body is subtler. But they do have different powers than we have. So we see the demons, they can change their bodies [Laughs]. We see the demons that Kamsa sent, they can change their bodies like Putana was described [Laughs] became a beautiful woman and then she’s a big demon or whatever like that. So the demons have these powers like mystic powers or whatever to change their bodies or change their forms and become invisible or whatever. So, yeah they have this powers, they are, many are situated in this layer above earth, the antariksha, that’s above the earth, so they do have subtler things that are not grosser than us necessarily.
7.) How do we understand in the Caitanya Caritamrta about how the Sankirtana movement has already spread all over the universe?
Well, we of course are thinking of our earth planet and our human bodies and our modern communication methods or whatever we can measure [Laughs]. Now Nama Sankirtana is spreading in upper planetary systems is a little bit different because their intelligence is much greater than us. Awareness is more, they can communicate with their minds and do so many things [Laughs] so they can be aware of everything on earth. So obviously they can get influenced by what’s happening on the earth and they can partake of Kirtan or whatever and get the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu that way.
8.) Sometimes devotees who go on books, sometimes think that a person they encountered were actually devas, or others say that politicians are rakshasas incarnate in human form. Is there any truth to such statements?
Well, we don’t want to say they’re incarnate but when we say they can have demonic mentality or deva mentality, that’s actually stated by the Bhagavad Gita, it talks about those who are deva. So all those people who are following sattvic principles are deva and those who are following tamasic principles are demonic [Laughs]. So, whether they’re influenced by another person we don’t know but nevertheless if they have all sorts of tamasic habits and violence or whatever obviously they’re in the demonic category, it doesn’t matter whether somebody is influencing them or not [Laughs]. Of course, they could be, whatever, we don’t know, but they could be because demons are also very powerful and they got saitic powers [Laughs] like this, they can use some black magic abd things or whatever. This of course, is comes out, what we call it a conspiracy theory type thing where the desert people are in the bodies of the prime minister of Britain or something [Laughs] or maybe in the [Laughs] president of America [Laughs] we don’t know. So, maybe not directly but actually a lot of these people do have this tamasic influence in them, so it’s the same thing.
9.) And how do we explain modern encounters with iyaphores and ivyams?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: How do we explain [Laughs]?
Devotee: Yeah.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, for us it is a little difficult because governments don’t reveal everything, so we don’t know what’s true and what’s not true [Laughs]. So that’s a big difficulty even though they promise they’re going to reveal but they don’t reveal it and whatever. But if we take things seriously we understand that something happens and there’s been these sightings and stuff so it looks like there are unexplainable events and even we can say pilots and even astronauts [Laughs] they say there are things out there that are very unexplainable, which look like from highly intelligent beings and according to physicists or whatever they’re called Carl Sagan or whatever, they also say and of course, it’s mathematically logical that because there’s so many billions of galaxies or I don’t know millions of billions of galaxies and with billions and billions of planets and then billions of planets and whatever, the possibility of life has to be there. If there’s life here, the possibility that somewhere else is there, and then if there is life on so many planets, that it’s also possible there could be billions of life you know years ahead of us or whatever, thousands of years ahead of us and therefore, they can manipulate time and space much more than we can. And therefore, they can come here at their will or whatever with no difficulty. So, it’s always, it’s a very high possibility in other words.
10.) Devotees who follow devotional service but could not get into the Prema stage, what is their fate, what is their fate? How they overcome their past karma, karma results?
Well, if we start the process of Bhakti and we avoid aparadhas, gradually we can advance. It may take us one life, two lives, three lives, four lives, five lives or whatever but eventually we keep advancing until we get to Prema, as long as we don’t commit aparadhas. So we’re more or less protected by the Lord to get there. So we have to be a little patient.
11.) Maharaj, in this purport and translation, Prabhupad was mentioning Earth, is the Earth means the Bhu-mandala?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: What? Earth?
Devotee: Earth.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh yeah, he’s here mentioning the Bhu-mandala.
Devotee: It’s the Bhu-mandala, it’s not the earth we know right?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, not this little bit part or this Bharata Varsha, oh that’s where we are [Laughs].
Devotee: Thank you.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay. Hare Krishna!
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupad ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!