Srimad Bhagavatam 10.3.22 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Melbourne, Australia | 10 March 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 3 Verse 22.
ŚB 10.3.22
ayaṁ tv asabhyas tava janma nau gṛhe
śrutvāgrajāṁs te nyavadhīt sureśvara
sa te ’vatāraṁ puruṣaiḥ samarpitaṁ
śrutvādhunaivābhisaraty udāyudhaḥ
Synonyms
ayam — this (rascal); tu — but; asabhyaḥ — who is not civilized at all (asura means “uncivilized,” and sura means “civilized”); tava — of Your Lordship; janma — the birth; nau — our; gṛhe — into the home; śrutvā — after hearing; agrajān te — all the brothers born before You; nyavadhīt — killed; sura-īśvara — O Lord of the suras, the civilized persons; saḥ — he (that uncivilized Kaṁsa); te — Your; avatāram — appearance; puruṣaiḥ — by his lieutenants; samarpitam — being informed of; śrutvā — after hearing; adhunā — now; eva — indeed; abhisarati — will come immediately; udāyudhaḥ — with raised weapons.
Translation
O my Lord, Lord of the demigods, after hearing the prophecy that You would take birth in our home and kill him, this uncivilized Kaṁsa killed so many of Your elder brothers. As soon as he hears from his lieutenants that You have appeared, he will immediately come with weapons to kill You.
Purport
Kaṁsa has here been described as asabhya, meaning “uncivilized” or “most heinous,” because he killed the many children of his sister. When he heard the prophecy that he would be killed by her eighth son, this uncivilized man, Kaṁsa, was immediately ready to kill his innocent sister on the occasion of her marriage. An uncivilized man can do anything for the satisfaction of his senses. He can kill children, he can kill cows, he can kill brāhmaṇas, he can kill old men; he has no mercy for anyone. According to the Vedic civilization, cows, women, children, old men and brāhmaṇas should be excused if they are at fault. But asuras, uncivilized men, do not care about that. At the present moment, the killing of cows and the killing of children is going on unrestrictedly, and therefore this civilization is not at all human, and those who are conducting this condemned civilization are uncivilized asuras.
Such uncivilized men are not in favor of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. As public officers, they declare without hesitation that the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is a nuisance, although Bhagavad-gītā clearly says, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ. According to this verse, it is the duty of the mahātmās to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and try to spread it all over the world to the best of their ability. Unfortunately, society is in such an uncivilized state that there are so-called mahātmās who are prepared to kill cows and children and stop the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Such uncivilized activities were actually demonstrated in opposition to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement’s Bombay center, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. As Kaṁsa was not expected to kill the beautiful child of Devakī and Vasudeva, the uncivilized society, although unhappy about the advancement of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, cannot be expected to stop it. Yet we must face many difficulties in many different ways. Although Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed, Vasudeva, as the father of Kṛṣṇa, was trembling because in affection he thought that Kaṁsa would immediately come and kill his son. Similarly, although the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and Kṛṣṇa are not different and no asuras can check it, we are afraid that at any moment the asuras can stop this movement in any part of the world.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So this is Vasudev, the father of Krishna speaking, and we see that he is somewhat in fear that Kamsa will come and kill Krishna just as he killed his elder brothers. And we can ask, well, why should Vasudev be afraid that Kamsa will kill Krishna? Because Krishna is Supreme Lord, He is eternal, His body cannot be touched by any asura, can never be killed. On the other hand, even a jiva cannot be killed. And in the second chapter of Bhagavad Gita, Krishna preaches to Arjuna, don’t think about killing people in this war, nobody is the body, you don’t kill anybody [Laughs], you don’t get killed, you don’t kill anybody, don’t think of this as being like a sin, because you don’t die. And here we see Vasudev, oh, Krishna is going to get killed [Laughs], as if he is identifying Krishna with a material body. So why would this happen? Because Vasudev is you know, eternal associate of the Lord. One answer is that Vasudev is the father of Krishna eternally, at least one father, Nanda is the other father. So Vasudev has a particular relationship with Krishna to show his affection, and that is, he acts as a father, just as Nanda acts as a father. And Devaki and Yasoda act as mothers of Krishna. Not only they act as a mother and father, they are mother and father of Krishna and that’s eternal. And in that relationship, it looks a little bit peculiar from the point of, normal point of view of who is God, because the parent takes a superior position, and Krishna takes an inferior position.
The normal position for people when they think of God, God is Supreme, and we are little servants [Laughs]. But in the position of being a parent, that is vatsalya rasa, the devotee takes the role of being superior, older than Krishna, bigger than Krishna, more intelligent than Krishna, and protecting Krishna. So this is the role of a parent. Of course, in the material world, this is material, and thus everything is temporary, but this is also part of the spiritual world. Vatsalya rasa is eternal, and therefore these relationships between Vasudev and Krishna, and Nanda and Krishna are eternal, and they always think of Krishna as their son. So part of that relationship of thinking of Krishna as the son, is that Krishna needs to be protected. That is the sentiment of a parent and particularly when the child is small. Just as in material world, not just human beings, but even animals, they have their small kittens or puppies or whatever, birds or whatever [Laughs], and the parents are looking after them because they are completely unprotected. And of course animals, we can say by instinct or whatever, they are protecting. So the human beings also, mother and father, protect the children, so we can say natural instinct so to speak. But in that so-called instinct, there is also great affection.
So in the spiritual world also we have affectionate relationship of parent to child. Krishna is the child, some jiva or devotee is the parent, or like a parent. And so they desire to protect Krishna, which doesn’t seem to be the normal case because Krishna is the Supreme Lord and He doesn’t need any protection. He protects us. But in this particular rasa, everything is reversed [Laughs]. The devotee is protecting Krishna. This may seem a little bit contradictory and thus it is puzzling to many people how you can have such a relationship with God, where you are superior to God. And thus many people are not too attracted to that. And they would rather see God as the Supreme controller sitting on a throne or whatever, just like a king or whatever we are all serving. And thus, we will see that by and large, even in human society, most people are attracted to worshipping the form of Vishnu. Vishnu is Supreme, everybody else is servant. That’s a common conception, not just within the vedic culture, but around the world. So most religious people say, yes, we are the servant of God, and God is Supreme. God sits on a throne someplace in the sky, we are all his servants [Laughs]. So it’s kind of a natural thing. Why because we define God as a Supreme being, and everybody else is controlled by Him. So it’s natural to think of Him as Supreme. So therefore, worshipping God in such a way that we don’t seem to be worshipping, we seem to be controlling Him [Laughs], it looks a little bit strange [Laughs] and not so popular. So thus the worship of Krishna also is not so popular as the worship of Vishnu and other forms. Nevertheless, there is some advantage in this. What is the advantage? The advantage is, or we say the plus point is that the relationship between the devotee and Krishna in vatsalya rasa can be very intense.
So we know that we have rasas. We have santa rasa, dasya rasa, vatsalya rasa, and madhurya rasa. And they’re all wonderful, they’re all spiritual, and they’re all eternal. And a jiva can have any of these relationships, and they’re eternally satisfied with them. But they don’t change rasa. Nevertheless, in our sampradaya, we also grade rasas as inferior [Laughs] and superior, in spite of the fact that they’re all Supreme in one sense and all spiritual. And so we put santa rasa at the bottom because it is the weakest type of prema. When the attachment to Krishna and affection get more, it becomes dasya rasa, where we act as a servant of Krishna and we serve Him nicely. The santa rasa, Prabhupada calls neutral rasa. It’s not actually neutral because it was neutral to be like Brahman or something [Laughs], or may be no relationship at all. So it’s a little bit above neutral. There is obviously prema there, it’s part of rasa, so it’s prema but it’s rather weak. And the impetus to serve the Lord is much weaker. So in that sense, it’s neutral. With dasya, then that service attitude becomes stronger.
If we get to sakhya rasa, the relationship becomes more intimate. So intimate that, the idea of superior and inferior disappear. And then the devotees are all equal with Krishna [Laughs]. And that’s why we see in tenth canto, it’s described how Krishna is playing with the cowherd boys in the forest of Vrindavan, and they don’t see inferior or superior. Krishna is an equal. They joke with Krishna as equals, and they eat with Krishna as equals. It’s not that Krishna is in a special place and everybody else is separate. No, Krishna is eating with them, exchanging food. They play together, they wrestle, and sometimes Krishna loses or sometimes Krishna wins [Laughs]. We see that Krishna has to carry a cowherd boy on His shoulders because He loses sometimes [Laughs], but sometimes he wins, so they’re equal. And that’s a rather intimate relationship, so it’s a little more intense than dasya.
When we get to vatsalya rasa, that’s considered to be more intense, but it’s not equal. Krishna is inferior and devotee is superior [Laughs]. But we see, as in the material world, this relationship between mother and son is quite strong. So similar in the spiritual world. Mother Yasoda and Nanda’s relationship with Krishna, very strong and they’re always trying to protect Krishna. Because Krishna is the child, then they automatically want to protect Him. That’s, of course, contradictory to the idea that God is Supreme Lord. How could it exist? It does not exist in Vaikuntha. It does not exist in Dwaraka [Laughs]. Or at least in a modified form. But if we go to Vrindavan, then it is, that’s the only way it exists. Mother Yasoda and Nanda, they never see Krishna as Supreme Lord at all. And He’s completely at their mercy. And thus we will see that Krishna is treated as a small child. Just as in the material world, the mother and father have their children and they try to teach them things. They make them learn things. They punish them, whatever like this. So this happens with Krishna. Even though you shouldn’t punish God. You can’t teach God anything because He’s omniscient [Laughs]. But mother Yasoda and Nanda are teaching Krishna how to do things. And then mother Yasoda is punishing Krishna by running after Him with a stick, tying Him up. So very contradictory to the normal conception of God. But very natural for a person who sees Krishna as their son. So that is vatsalya rasa. And that relationship is very, very strong.
Of course, even higher than that is madhurya rasa, Krishna’s relationship with the Gopis. That, again, is kind of equal. But then sometimes Radha is superior to Krishna also [Laughs]. Sometimes Krishna is superior to Radha. So it’s a mixture. This is the most intense of all. So with Krishna we get various degrees of intensity of the relationship. And consequently intensity of the bliss. And thus we put madhurya rasa at the top. And Radha and Krishna at the very top because of the intensity of rasa and the intense bliss. So in this intensity then, any idea that Krishna is God and He is superior, and we must be His servants in all case, that idea disappears from the mind. And you think only of Krishna in one’s loving relationship. That’s in Vrindavan. So that type of relationship is considered to be the highest.
And so in that type of world, Goloka, then we don’t see Krishna and the devotees acting like you would expect them to act, where Krishna is God, everybody else is serving [Laughs]. And they see him as God. That will disturb the mood. So, here we see in this case also, Vasudev thinks, oh, Krishna is in danger. Kamsa is going to kill Him. Could not be killed ultimately. But this is the natural feeling of a parent. That we have to protect our child. And therefore that is expressed here. Vasudev has fear that Kamsa will kill and try to kill Krishna etc. So that’s the natural expression of vatsalya rasa. It is not an indication of ignorance that Vasudev is ignorant of the identity of Krishna. It is a type of ignorance, of course. And thus we’ll see that in Goloka, everybody is covered by ignorance [Laughs]. It’s not material ignorance. It’s Yogamaya and the intensity of rasa so that certain things are covered up. Definitely, Krishna is Supreme Lord. Everybody is His servant. That’s tattva, you know philosophy. But that is overridden by the power of love of Krishna in Vrindavan. It is so intense that, that is completely covered up. So in that sense there is ignorance. And the relationship becomes more priority for all the devotees there. And therefore, they ignore the idea of Krishna as God. So this is how relationships operate in the spiritual world. Based upon the love rather than conceptions of who is God etc. So this is the position, that is why Goloka is put at the top in Vrindavan, with Vrindavan, with Krishna as a cowherd boy with all of the devotees there.
And then we have Vaikuntha below it with Vishnu. In between we get something else. We get avatar forms like Ramachandra, for instance, who is kind of like Vishnu because everyone sees Him as God and they worship Him, dasya rasa, etc. It’s a little bit more friendly and intimate. So He is placed a little bit above Vaikuntha. That is, Ayodhya is a little bit above Vaikuntha. We have Krishna in Dwaraka. So that is Krishna. So He is superior to Vishnu and Rama. But Krishna in Dwaraka is also inferior to Krishna in Vrindavan. And why? Because even though He is the same form, blue and whatever, and He has all the relationships like vatsalya and madhurya and sakhya, dasya and santa, the people of Dwaraka see Krishna as Supreme Lord also [Laughs]. So this dilutes the rasas. So all the rasas are present there, but they are in a weaker form than they are in Vrindavan. And therefore, it is put in a lower position.
So in Nectar of Devotion, Rupa Goswami describes three Krishnas. The Krishna in Dwaraka is called purna, which puts Him in a superior position than Ramachandra or Vishnu. But Krishna in Mathura is called purna-tara, which means more perfect, so slightly more intense relationship. Because in Mathura, Krishna does not assume such powers, does not expand Himself into 16,108 palaces with 16,108 queens and whatever like that. So it’s a little bit more elevated. And if we get to Vrindavan, then of course there is no idea that Krishna is Supreme Lord or that He has powers anymore. So we have Vasudev and Devaki. They see Krishna here, He is born. How is He born? He has four arms. He is a Vishnu form.
So obviously Vasudev also, though he thinks Krishna, He is my son and I have to protect Him, at the same time He is seeing this form [Laughs] with four arms. So he also understands He is the Supreme Lord. So it’s a mixture. And that is, we can say, continues in his relationship with Krishna in Mathura and Dwaraka. So whenever he sees Krishna, yes, He is my son, but He is also Supreme Lord. In Vrindavan, Nanda and Yasoda, what do they see when Krishna is born? Two-handed form, little baby. That’s it [Laughs]. Krishna is our eternal son. And He is not Vishnu, He is different. Vishnu protects Krishna. Thus Krishna looks like He kills demons, but actually it is Vishnu protecting Him. So whenever Krishna as a small child like kills Putana or kills Trinavarta, etc, they say, well, yeah, Vishnu is protecting Him [Laughs]. So [Laughs] because He is a small child and He can’t do anything. He is just our son. So a son cannot do anything. So whatever remarkable things happen, it’s not because of Krishna, it’s because of Vishnu. He is protecting Him. So Krishna does kill a lot of demons in Vrindavan, but the people always attribute it not to Krishna. And so it doesn’t break their idea that Krishna is anything but their son. And that continues. And that preserves the intensity of their love for Krishna. So because of that intensity of love, the people of Vrindavan are considered to be the best devotees.
In Dwaraka and other places, it is less. And the form is considered to be Supreme in Vrindavan, less in Dwaraka and then less in the other forms in Vaikuntha with different avatars. So that is the basic difference between Vasudev’s realization of Krishna and Nanda’s realization of Krishna. It’s both vatsalya, but a little bit different. So here Vasudev does worry because of he is a parent, and therefore, yes, Krishna is our son, and therefore we have to protect Him and whatever, and he gets worried about Kamsa. The same sentiment will be there in Vrindavan with Nanda and Yasoda, trying to protect Krishna at all times. The only difference is that in Vrindavan, Nanda and Yasoda never think of Krishna as also the Supreme Lord. So they are always trying to protect Krishna because He is simply their child, whatever. So therefore, here we find Krishna appears in the material world with a form, with a mother and father, Vasudev and Devaki, who have a vatsalya relationship. At the same time, He announces, I am Supreme Lord because He comes out with four arms, etc [Laughs]. So this is the appearance of Krishna for Vasudev and Devaki. Simultaneously, Krishna manifests Himself in Vrindavan, and Nanda and Yasoda see Krishna, small child, being born, two arms, little child. No Vishnu, nothing [Laughs].
So this is, we can say, also the evidence that the desire, expectation of Vasudev and Devaki and Nanda and Yasoda are quite different. Their expectation is different, Krishna appears differently to them [Laughs]. So, in other words, Krishna is responding to the desires of different types of devotees accordingly. He adjusts His form in different ways. Those devotees who expect a very intimate, intense relationship, they manifest themselves in Vrindavan, and they take up forms as inhabitants of Vrindavan. Those who have a mixture of grandeur with their different rasas, they are born in Mathura or Dwaraka [Laughs]. And those who are just exclusively into reverence, then they are born in Vaikuntha, and they take up forms there. But everybody is satisfied with their particular relationship.
So the basic principle, from our point of view, as sadhakas is, we are free to choose the form that we worship. So we can worship Vishnu, we can worship Rama, we can worship Narasimha Dev, we can worship Krishna, we can worship Krishna at Dwaraka, we can worship Krishna in Mathura or in Vrindavan. If we choose the other forms, we don’t have much choice of rasa. We can choose santa rasa or dasya rasa, even with Ramachandra, that’s it. If we choose Krishna in Dwaraka and Mathura or in Vrindavan, we can choose santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, or madhurya. We have five choices, not two choices. So we get a little more free will operating there [Laughs], if we choose Krishna. If we don’t choose Krishna, then we’re stuck with two, two options only. We choose Krishna, then we have five options. Even there, we can choose. And according to our choice, we practice our sadhana. And according to our sadhana, we get our perfection. So this is all Krishna’s mercy.
So we choose dasya rasa with Krishna in Vrindavan, then we become dasas of Krishna in Vrindavan. We choose sakhya rasa in Vrindavan, we become cowherd boys in Vrindavan. We choose vatsalya rasa in Vrindavan, we become elder cowherd boys, cowherd men or women in Vrindavan. We choose madhurya rasa, then we become manjaris or sakhis in Vrindavan, when we get perfection. So this is the arrangement that Krishna makes to fulfill our particular desires. But somewhere in our sadhana, we have to start choosing [Laughs]. And based on that choice, you get result. There is a little bit of a, we could say, loophole or something [Laughs]. You don’t want to choose [Laughs]. So you like everything a little bit. So that’s nice, but the problem is nothing is very intense. So it’s a little bit of everything. So you like a little dasya, you like a little sakhya, whatever. It’s a little bit of everything [Laughs]. So it’s like the material world. You like a little bit of everything. You like a little bit of Chinese food, a little Italian food, a little Indian food, a little American food, a little of everything. He says, okay, we’ll eat anything, no problem [Laughs]. But the intensity of rasa, if it is there, it concentrates on one rasa only. That’s more intense. Consequently, the bliss is more. So you can say, oh, we like variety and everything. But the intensity of the rasa is very little. So it’s a type of santa. You get a little bit of everything. Okay, some people like that, a little bit of everything. But if you’re more committed, then you choose a particular rasa, and you concentrate on that, then you get that. So again, it’s choice. So this is how Krishna fulfills the des/************89999999999999999999999999999999ires of the devotees. He gives us all sorts of choices, and depending on what we choose, then Krishna responds very, very nicely to that and fulfills all of our desires eternally in the spiritual world.
Okay, Hare Krishna!
Q & A :
1.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, thank you for the wonderful class. As the last point you mentioned about choosing the rasa as part of sadhana, we have been always cautioned not to prematurely choose a rasa, in the sense, people, in the beginners, they say, what’s your rasa, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. So as sadhakas, at what stage one actually look into, or one is drawn to a particular rasa, or is there any definition?
Well, part of it is according to sampradaya, because if you choose a certain sampradaya, your rasa is may be a little bit limited [Laughs]. So if you choose Ramanuja sampradaya, you’re limited to dasya [Laughs]. If you choose Madhva sampradaya, you’re limited to dasya, and all you do is worship Vishnu ultimately as the Supreme entity. So it’s quite limited. If you choose to follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu, of course, then because we choose Krishna as the main object of worship, then we have these options. There could be a few persons, like Lord Caitanya’s movement, we have Murari Gupta, for instance. He was a Rama bhakta [Laughs]. He wasn’t, so there is the, the movement is so free that we can also have people who are worshipping other forms of the Lord besides Krishna, and somehow they can adjust within Lord Caitanya’s movement. It is there. But generally, obviously, it is to Krishna, and more than Krishna, Lord Caitanya is emphasizing madhurya rasa because Caitanya Mahaprabhu is also Krishna with the mood of Radha, so that’s very, very prominent. He is, Lord Caitanya is combination of Radha Krishna, so then it’s natural that most people will gravitate towards Radha Krishna and madhurya rasa. So that’s kind of natural. But it’s not absolute, again.
So there are devotees and Lord Caitanya, for instance, His parents, they’re in vatsalya rasa, obviously, not madhurya rasa. Some are in dasya rasa, Srivasa Pandit. And we get sakhya rasa. Of course, Nityananda and Lord Caitanya are in sakhya rasa. And all Nityananda’s followers are the twelve Gopalas who are in sakhya rasa also. So therefore, there are some of Lord Caitanya and Nityananda’s associates who are in dasya rasa also. So it’s an option. So we get all the rasas also there within Lord Caitanya’s movement, and you could choose any of them, whatever, if that’s your desire. But of course, the emphasis is always upon madhurya rasa, so that’s why we say the majority of people would gravitate towards madhurya rasa, but then there may be people who are stubbornly [Laughs] stuck on one rasa, and then there’s no problem with that also [Laughs], because each person is an individual [Laughs]. So when to choose? Of course, that’s up to the individual when they develop a certain attraction. So that’s why in discussing raganuga bhakti, which is of sadhana, in which you kind of choose your particular ideal in Vrindavan, it could be Nanda and Yasoda, or cowherd boys or sakhis or manjaris or whatever. It’s when you develop that greed. So it’s not defined in terms of stages or anything. It could happen at any stage when that intensity of that desire for a certain relationship manifests. So it’s dependent on that, not particularly on the stage of development.
Devotee: Maharaj, in that regard we have heard that it’s only at nistha one may choose, that intense desire would develop only at the stage of nistha. Is it right, in terms of raganuga, or even before?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: There is some suggestion like that in some of Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s writings. So that is reasonable, because before that stage you are anistha [Laughs], unsteady. So if you are unsteady, then you are not likely to choose, let’s say positively, any particular type of relationship. On the other hand, as I said, there is no definite idea that only at this stage you are allowed to choose, or whatever. So therefore, we will see that, I think in Ragavartma Candrika, Vishwanath Chakravarti says you can begin your sadhana [Laughs] with raganuga, which would mean you would have to choose at that stage a particular relationship, whether it is dasya, sakhya, vatsalya or madhurya. So it could happen from the very beginning of sadhana even, not just at nishtha stage. And we will see that in the Vallabha sampradaya. It’s all raganuga from the very beginning of sadhana. It is raganuga, so they have chosen [Laughs] a particular relationship dominantly, vatsalya. Of course, there is a little madhurya there also, but it is raganuga and it is largely vatsalya, so they have made their choice that way [Laughs]. Whereas in Gaudiya sampradaya, it is largely madhurya [Laughs]. So though the choices are there, it’s not so prominent. Most people gravitate towards madhurya, even from beginning of sadhana, because we have Radha Krishna deities and whatever. We are chanting Hare Krishna [Laughs].
2.) Hare Krishna, Maharaj. Thank you for the nice class. Maharaj, you were mentioning about vatsalya rasa. So my question is, can a practitioner devotee in sadhana develop appreciation for vatsalya rasa, even if their eternal rasa might be a bit different?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Can they practice vatsalya now when their eternal rasa is different?
Devotee: Can they develop appreciation for vatsalya rasa?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh well, devotees have appreciation for all rasas [Laughs]. So in Nectar of Devotion, Rupa Goswami presents all rasas : santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, madhurya. He doesn’t want to criticize anything. And they are eternal associates in all rasas, so we don’t criticize any devotees. We don’t criticize Srivasa Pandit because he is in dasya or Murari Gupta because he is in dasya with Rama. We like to encourage all devotees. From the objective point of view, of course, we exalt madhurya rasa as the highest because it’s most intense, it’s the most intimate, and we have Radha Krishna at the top. But we never reject or criticize any other rasas. And if any individual devotee has attraction for any of these rasas, that’s fine. There’s no problem for that. So if you have attraction for Radha Krishna in madhurya rasa, definitely you admire Nanda and Yasoda for their relationship with Krishna, no problem [Laughs]. But it’s not that you’re cultivating that. You have a different relation. But you respect all of the different devotees in Vraja and all of their relationships.
3.) Thank you Maharaj. Bringing some new point for me, I understood that sadhana can be begun from raganuga. And you bring so many good points. Just want to ask like, as we’re prominent to vaidhi bhakti, and in ISKCON and in Caitanya Mahaprabhu‘s mission, we’re just trying to follow this vaidhi bhakti as we’ve been taught by Prabhupada and all those, which is very essential. But there’s so many sadhakas, someone might be going through the different rasas, like five different rasas. And general sadhaka following this, practicing this something, vaidhi bhakti, do this, do that. So how do we, if someone is doing something in a different way, how do we understand? And should we correct that person or should we not do anything because it might be offensive, it might get offended, the devotee, because he’s in different thoughts, different process.
Well, we cannot criticize if they have attraction for different rasas or whatever. As I said, in the spiritual world, all the devotees respect all the other devotees. The Gopis don’t criticize Mother Yasoda [Laughs]. They say, you’ve got the wrong rasa there, you have to be a Gopi. They don’t say that. She’s a parent and they respect it. And similarly, the parents respect madhurya rasa, sakhya rasa etc. So they’re all respectable. And similarly, in the material world, all the rasas are presented as options for the devotees worshipping Krishna. So they always have that choice and freedom to choose. So we can’t criticize any of that. But of course, in our Gaudiya sampradaya, Lord Caitanya does emphasize that the Supreme rasa is madhurya rasa. And that kind of encourages people to do that. But if you don’t have attraction for that and you’re in sakhya rasa, fine. As I said, Lord Caitanya’s associates, some are in sakhya rasa. And they wrote paddhatis of raganuga on sakhya rasa also [Laughs]. And they had followers, so nobody criticized them also. So in that sense, we shouldn’t criticize.
As for the idea about vaidhi bhakti, this, of course, is kind of emphasized by Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati and Srila Prabhupada that, you know, we follow the rules and regulations and whatever like that. At the same time, if you look in Caitanya Caritamrta basically, it doesn’t mention vaidhi bhakti at all. It’s all raganuga [Laughs]. And it says, if you don’t practice raganuga, you don’t go to Goloka [Laughs]. You end up in somewhere else, in Dwaraka or somewhere instead. So, obviously, what that means is, ultimately, if you’re aspiring for Vrindavan, then you would have to go to raganuga, which means you have to ultimately not see Krishna as Supreme Lord but as, like Vasudev and Devaki but like Nanda and Yasoda or the Gopis or the Cowherd boys. You have to develop that mood. So to develop that mood, then you follow after them and that’s called raganuga, which sounds very logical. At a certain point, we do have to follow that mood. We can’t keep saying, Okay, yeah, we like everything. We like Radha Krishna and everything. But if we see them as Supreme Lord, then, you know, even if you get madhurya rasa, it’s a little bit different. It’s more like Dwaraka, where the queens of Dwaraka have madhurya rasa with Krishna, but they also see Him [Laughs] as Supreme Lord.
So if you want to develop the Vrindavan mood, then you have to give that up at a certain point. So though every jiva and every devotee is saying, yeah, we’re eternally Krishna Das, through that cultivation, that kind of gets covered over because of the strong relationship we have with Krishna, as in with the people of Vrindavan, where that’s covered over, and they think in terms of Krishna is my friend, Krishna is my lover, Krishna is my son etc.
So the reason for the emphasis on vaidhi bhakti is because, particularly in the modern world, people don’t like rules and regulations, and when they see raganuga, they exploit, the idea that we should be spontaneous to give up all rules and regulations and just do whatever they want [Laughs]. So, therefore, there is some emphasis upon following the basic rules and regulations. If we look in Nectar of Devotion, 64 angas of bhakti, all about how to engage in devotional service, we don’t even find, we don’t find the four regulative principles mentioned at all [Laughs]. It’s a concentration on just doing your bhakti. Why doesn’t he mention things like that? At that time, of course, it was assumed if you’re a serious devotee, you would never think of these things anyway [Laughs].
But we have the modern world where everybody’s engaged [Laughs] in these things [Laughs]. So we do have to be practical to the world we’re living in, and therefore, we make certain principles very clear that, if you want to practice bhakti, then this, this, this, you have to follow. Even though technically they’re not angas of bhakti. But we do emphasize that a little more. Whereas in Nectar of Devotion 500 years ago, they’re just like, do the bhakti, do the bhakti, and everything else is expected to be automatically achieved [Laughs].
So, therefore, there’s some practical things that the, our Acharyas have seen in kali yuga and therefore, they emphasize some rules and regulations etc, as preliminary things. So therefore, there’s a little more emphasis on the vaidhi bhakti aspect. However, even though we do emphasize the vaidhi bhakti, etc, this also is in relation to deity worship. That’s where we get a lot of vaidhi bhakti. Nama Sankirtan very liberal [Laughs]. Everybody can do it [Laughs]. Whether you follow all regulative principles or don’t follow whatever, everybody chant the holy name. So we’ve got both things going.
And of course, the chanting of the holy name is very, very liberal, very expressive, etc. But we also understand that eventually, by doing this, chanting the holy name, we should come up to standards as well. So therefore, we have those standards, more serious devotees and we expect them to follow. Though we talk about vaidhi bhakti, as I said, quite a lot of it has to do with the deity worship, because in deity worship, we are following pancharatrika vidhi, which is largely vaidhi bhakti. You have to do this, this, this when you worship the deity. You don’t do that, you’re not proper or whatever like that.
A lot of the rules are in terms of deity worship when we follow the vaidhi bhakti. But, even there, our vaidhi bhakti, for worshipping the deity, is distinctly different from the vaidhi bhakti and pancharatra that is followed by Ramanuja or Madhva. Very, very different [Laughs]. So their following of the rules is very strict and ours is quite liberal [Laughs]. So we actually follow pancharatra, but, say, minimal [Laughs]. We kind of minimize those rules, put them down to their very basic essence [Laughs].
So, therefore, yeah, we follow vaidhi bhakti, especially in pancharatra. Even there, we try to simplify as much as possible. Why? One, of course, is because, well, you know, people in kali yuga are incapable of following so many rules and regulations anyway. The other is that too many rules rather restricts our sense of serving Krishna. It doesn’t interfere too much with serving Vishnu. Because Vaikuntha is full of rules also [Laughs]. But Krishna in Vrindavan, no, not so many rules there. So, therefore, too many rules is going to also interfere with our development of Vrindavan bhakti. So therefore, we do follow pancharatra but at the same time, we kind of put the rules at a minimum because of this influence of raganuga etc.
4.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Could you please explain the connection between the eternal associates of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Radha Krishna? Because we know that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is a combined form of Radha Krishna, but still they are two separate forms, Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Radha Krishna. Is it the same devotees who are with both of them? Or how does that work?
So, the devotees of Krishna in Vrindavan are these different rasas. So, we have sakhya, vatsalya, madhurya, all of the different rasas there. And millions of devotees in each rasa. So, we have millions of Gopis, millions of cowherd boys, millions of elders who are in vatsalya rasa, and millions of servants etc. So, we get all the rasas with millions of devotees there. And they are all cowherd people [Laughs] in Vrindavan. So, Krishna who has blue and He is playing a flute and He has got cowherd boy dress, manifests Himself as Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is not blue, He is golden in color, is not a cowherd boy, He is a young little brahmana boy instead [Laughs]. And He acts like a human being, more than a cowherd boy. So, then He has the mood of Radha.
So, He is Krishna, but also covered over because He is acting as a devotee of Krishna in the mood of Radha. So, Krishna is there with all of His devotees. He comes as Caitanya Mahaprabhu and again those devotees manifest also with Caitanya Mahaprabhu. But, just like Lord Caitanya is covered over and acts like a human being, so all the devotees also there acting like human beings, not like cowherd boys or cowherd people. So, therefore we find many devotees in sakhya rasa, madhurya rasa and vatsalya rasa or dasya rasa, but it’s little bit covered over because of the, they are acting as human beings in association with Lord Caitanya, who is propagating the Nama Sankirtan movement.
So, therefore Lord Caitanya does not do Rasa-lila [Laughs]. There are so many different, He doesn’t display lifting Govardhana Hill or whatever like that. His main activity is Nama Sankirtan [Laughs], preaching the glories of Nama Sankirtan. But within that then, these different devotees who were previously in Krishna’s rasa, in different relationships with Krishna, they manifest with Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So, we get Radha, in another form, manifests as Gadadhara Pandit. So, that’s the madhurya rasa, but it is covered over, as I said.
We get sakhya rasa with Balarama and Nityananda is there. And I said the cowherd boys manifest as associates of Balarama in their own sakhya rasa with Lord Caitanya, Nityananda. We get parental rasa, like Jagannatha, Vallabha, Sacimata and all that. Parents are there. So, we get the rasas, but not exactly like in Vrindavan, a little bit covered over but the relationships are there. Sometimes a little bit difficult to detect, but they are all identified in works like Gaura Ganoddesa Dipika of Kavi Karnapurna.
5.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj, as you mentioned that there are different, somebody who wants to love Krishna in vatsalya rasa, and it just came to my mind that what if somebody has a desire to serve or to be a parent of Krishna, like as Yasoda mayi. So, how does Krishna respond to that? Because there is already Yasoda mayi there.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. So, we cannot take another eternal associate’s place. So, for instance, in Vrindavan, we have Nanda and Yasoda in vatsalya rasa, but all the elder cowherd men and women are also in vatsalya rasa with Krishna. So, we have, Nanda has brothers also. So, they are in vatsalya rasa with Krishna and their wives also like that. So, you can always be an associate of Nanda and Yasoda and have a relationship with Krishna in vatsalya.
Devotee: But it won’t be like a parental, direct parent like?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Not direct parent. No direct parent.
Devotee: For that may be Krishna has to come in different universe and different avatars. Also Maharaj, as you mentioned that we follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu and our aim is though madhurya as a sampradaya. But sometimes we feel that we, I basically, we are more inclined towards Caitanya Mahaprabhu and doesn’t have much taste for Radha Krishna as such. Because Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu, we have more affection. So, that may be is natural, I suppose. We don’t have to, because some devotees have more love for Vrindavan, whereas some have more for Mayapur. I think, what I am trying to say is, may be this is natural and we don’t have to force it. Can you please comment on it please?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, of course. We should never separate Lord Caitanya from Krishna [Laughs]. Because Lord Caitanya is saying, worship Krishna. So, we can never separate the two and Lord Caitanya is another form of Krishna. So, if you worship Lord Caitanya, you can never say, well, I will worship Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I won’t worship Krishna. You cannot say that also [Laughs]. It’s like a contradictory, contradiction of terms. But, there always may be a prominence of who we are going to worship. Some people may be worshipping Lord Caitanya, but they have more prominent attraction to Krishna also like that. But, in our sampradaya, what we say is that to get to Krishna, you have to worship Caitanya Mahaprabhu [Laughs]. Especially Radha Krishna. Then you have to get to, go through Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So, then there is a necessity of worshipping Caitanya Mahaprabhu somewhere along the line. If we develop relationship with Lord Caitanya and worship Him, then we also worship Krishna. Where do we go? You can, of course, go to Krishna ultimately. That’s your goal and enter there. But, if you have great attraction to Caitanya Mahaprabhu also, you can also be with Lord Caitanya. And you can also be with both [Laughs]. Just as the associates of Lord Caitanya also are in Vrindavan lila. They have forms in Vrindavan Lila and forms in Caitanya lila. And so, a person doing sadhana can also enter into both pastimes and he can have one form in Goloka, one form in Nabadwipa. They can simultaneously have service in both places.
Devotee: Yes, Maharaj. Thank you.
6.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Just a question on a slightly different topic. When sadhakas go through suffering, many times they approach astrologer to see what’s going on. And, even devotee astrologers. So, sometimes I have seen that some of the devotee astrologers giving advice to go for remedial parihara, yajnas and pujas which are centered around demigods. And, this is for sadhaka bhaktas who are initiated. So, what’s going [Laughs] to be the effect of, and, the logic they are given is, if you have a disease, you go to a doctor. You don’t go to Krishna. Similarly, don’t disturb Krishna, go to a demigod and then, after all, it is to serve Krishna. This is the kind of logic that’s been given. So, how can we understand this?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah. So, you go to a doctor and he gives you some medicine. But, if the medicine is non-veg medicine, may be you won’t want to take it [Laughs].
Devotees: Haribol [Laughter].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: [Laughs] Just like the Ayurvedic doctor may give you some medicine and it’s got what buffalo, no, what is that? I think it has some fat in it. They put some animal fat in some of the preparations. So, we say, no, we don’t want to take that one [Laughs]. So, we try to find alternatives. So, of course, if it’s devotee astrologers, they should be responsible not to recommend prayaschitta or pariharas which involves devata worship. So, if they’re going to worship, it should be Vishnu worship, Krishna worship. And for every devata, there’s also a higher form of a avatar. So, if it’s the sun deity, suryadev, then we have Ramachandra. If it is the Mars deity, we have Narasimha Dev [Laughs]. So, for each of the planets, which basically, they’re doing some remedial measure for a certain planet which is afflicted or weak or whatever, we have also an avatar form. So, better to worship the avatars than to worship the devatas and that way, we’re not really committing any offense.
7.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. In Goloka, we hear about two aspects, the aishwarya aspect and the sweetness aspect of the Lord. So, my question is, is the sweetness aspect only in the bhauma Vrindavan or is it also in the eternal spiritual world?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Sweetness?
Devotee: Yeah.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, in the spiritual world, with the Vrindavan in the spiritual world, it is all sweetness. Of course, we can say there is aishwarya always, because Krishna is both. But, if He manifests it, He gets covered over, even by the people there. So, Krishna may display powers, but then the people of Vrindavan look at it and say that’s not Krishna, that’s not Krishna [Laughs]. It’s Vishnu operating or something else. As we see when Krishna lifts Govardhana Hill. Then everybody sees Krishna worship, lifting Govardhana Hill. How can He do that? He’s just a small child. He’s seven years old or something, or five years old. He’s lifting on little finger of His left hand. How is it possible? So then, Mother Yasoda tells them, it’s not Krishna. Krishna is not doing that. You see Balarama is also holding up the mountain. All the cowherd men are helping Krishna lift up the mountain [Laughs]. So, it’s not Krishna doing it. Other people are doing it [Laughs]. So, Mother Yasoda will find another excuse every time somebody challenges. See, it’s not, not Krishna is God. So, Krishna may display powers, but then the people of Vrindavan generally cover it up. Another example is when Nanda was captured by Varuna. And then Krishna went down and saved Nanda Maharaj. And then Varuna was praying to Krishna. And all the devatas were there praying to Krishna. Please forgive us for [Laughs] offending Nanda Maharaj etc. Nanda came back and he told the people, Oh, I think Krishna is Supreme Lord because all the devatas were offering respects to Krishna [Laughs]. Then everyone was saying, Oh, Krishna is Supreme Lord. Have Him show something to us. We want to see something. So, then Krishna showed Brahman and spiritual world to everybody. Then after that, they forgot about it all [Laughs]. And they went back to worshipping Krishna again after they saw all this Krishna and Goloka and Vedas praising Him, etc. Then they just forgot everything and then said no, Krishna is our son. So, all of this is not real [Laughs]. So, greatness is shown, but then it gets covered over. Whether it’s in our material pastimes or in the spiritual world.
Devotee: Because in the spiritual world, we hear that Krishna is only in the kaishora form.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah.
Devotee: So, if somebody is aspiring for, say, sakhya rasa in a younger form of the Lord, will they be always eternally with the Lord in the bhauma pastimes?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So even though Krishna is in kaishora form, even when Krishna gets, grows up in the material world, He eventually gets to kaishora form, He does not lose His relationship with the cowherd boys or with Mother Yasoda and Nanda, even though He is older [Laughs]. So, Mother Yasoda still sees Him, even though He is kaishora, she’ll see Him as a small child because of her affection. And the cowherd boys will see Him as their equal, which is like five years old or something like that. So, it is said that the kaishora form is such that the people in vatsalya rasa or sakhya rasa will see Krishna a little bit differently from the Gopis who see Krishna in kaishora. So, kaishora is such that all the devotees can see Him differently.
Devotee: Thank you Maharaj.
8.) Maharaj, one more question. In the spiritual world, you were explaining about Mahaprabhu. So, there is also eternal loka for Mahaprabhu’s devotees. So, my question is Rupa Goswami, for instance, he was in sadhaka deha and then his eternal deha is Rupa Manjari. So, what about the other associates of the Lord? So, all their sadhaka dehas will be eternally in that spiritual world?
Yeah, well, these are eternal associates who have a form as associates of Lord Caitanya, which are eternal. So, we have Lord Caitanya in the spiritual world and He has the Goswamis there, He has Nityananda and Pancha Tattva and everybody around Him. Plus, then we have Krishna with all of His associates that are like expansions. So, therefore, the Goswamis are their eternal associates of the Lord plus they, of course, have their lilas with Krishna. So, the Goswamis are manjaris and then others are sakhis like Visakha or Lalita etc. Others are sakhya rasa like cowherd boys, whatever. So, they have both roles eternally in the spiritual world as associates of Lord Caitanya and as eternal associates.
9.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. I’ve been advised this is the last question. So, Maharaj, when we hear about, like for the symptoms of a sadhaka at the stage of nishtha, he’s free from those five, laya, vikshepa, you know, freedom from sleep or distraction during devotional activities and when we hear of them and we assess ourselves, we are obviously not there, not anartha nivritti, but at the same time, as we hear today from today’s discourse that we can choose our rasa and Gopal prabhu also asked a related question on that. What I have heard from you now is that in the Caitanya Caritamrta there is no, you know, starting point. You can start early on as well. But when I see that my practice is not at the point where it should be…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Then you do vaidhi bhakti.
Devotee: Then vaidhi?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes. Until you develop that greed to follow that path of raganuga, which means then you would choose a particular rasa, then you do vaidhi bhakti. That’s what Nectar of Devotion says.
Devotee: Right.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It may be before nishtha, it may be after nishtha. Depends.
Devotee: So even before anartha nivritti, we can actually aspire for something?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, as I said, in Ragavartma Candrika there, Vishwanath says that you could start your sadhana with raganuga. As I said, with the Vallabha sampradaya, basically, it’s all raganuga [Laughs]. So people who join that sampradaya, then they start off with raganuga.
Devotee: Yes Maharaj. Thank you Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Hare Krishna.
Devotee: Hare Krishna.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!