Evening Class | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Seshadripuram | 25 May 2026
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So bha stands for bharta, which means he who nourishes, maintains, supports, establishes the devotee. So in other words, one who supports the devotee is called Bhagavan. Ga, of course, is related to the word gam, to go, or gamayata, to make go [Laughs], or to make attain. So Supreme Lord makes qualities in his devotees. He gives them prema, manifests prema in the devotee. He has him go to the spiritual world. And va, for vas, vas means to live. So the devotees live in the Lord, and the Lord lives in the devotees. The devotees live in the Lord means the Lord is always thinking of His devotees. And here the Lord resides in the devotee means the devotees are always thinking of the Lord [Laughs]. So in this way, we get a very personal meaning to Bhagavan. He is interacting with the devotee. He is supporting and nourishing the devotee. He is giving him prema and take him to spiritual world, and He is at all times thinking of His devotees, this is Bhagavan.
Of course, we have the famous definition of the six qualities there. Superficially, it looks a little bit less personal. So we have Aishwarya, which means Lordship or power. We have the word Ishwara. So the same, Isha, Ishwara, one who controls. So He naturally has control over everything in the material world and spiritual world. Virya, special potencies that nobody else has. So by this, He manifests universe, expands Himself into all the universes. Yasa means fame. So the Lord has all wonderful qualities of body, senses and mind and words.
Sri, of course, means two things. One is, of course, beauty. The other, of course, is good fortune. Not material money, but spiritual good fortune and spiritual beauty and youth, etc. And Jnana, the Lord is omniscient. He knows everything. And Vairagya, which means, of course, completely detached from the material world. That means He’s unaffected by matter. Though the Lord manifests the material world and enters into the material world and witnesses all the jivas in the material world, He is completely unaffected by anything. That’s Vairagya. So this is another definition given of Bhagavan. So in any case, we see that Bhagavan means Supreme Lord, a Supreme entity who rules everybody, but He has all wonderful qualities and He relates to His devotees. That’s basically Bhagavan.
So, as I said, Bhagavan has many forms. It is, let’s say, a struggle for most religions to accept God with a form at all. And even in India, all the Mayavadis and Brahmavadis, no form, etc. It’s only the Vaishnavas that accept. Of course, you say, well, how is that? According to Bhagavatam, Bhagavatam has a commentary on Brahma Sutras. And what are Brahma Sutras all about? Brahman [Laughs]. But what is Brahman? So Sankaracharya will say, impersonal Brahman. And the Vaishnavas from Ramanujacharya, he’ll say it is Narayana. And Madhvacharya will say it is Krishna. So it depends on how we interpret the scriptures, whether we take it impersonal or personal. So the Vaishnavas take the Vedanta Sutra, Upanishads, Sruti, of course, Puranas, etc., and we end up with Bhagavan as Supreme.
So, others, they prefer the impersonal. Of course, because it is part of God, in one sense we cannot criticize. At least it’s spiritual. It’s not material. But it is not the highest aspect of spiritual life. So, not only do we accept that God has a form, we say God has many forms. So this is quite unique [Laughs]. Because He has many forms, many people will say you’re worshipping many Gods, yeah, which is a common misconception of foreigners when they come to India, oh, Hindus worship many Gods. The Vaishnavas worship many forms of God, but there’s one God, one Bhagavan with many forms. So it’s separate. It’s not independent individuals. Other people in India will worship separate individuals like Indra, and Surya Dev, and Shiva, and Durga, and Kartikeya, and what not. All separate. But when we worship many forms, we’re worshipping one Supreme Lord only. But He has many forms. So it’s not the same thing. One God with many forms, not many Gods.
Okay, so we have many forms of God, and these forms can be quite different from each other. We will have animal forms, fish forms, bird forms, horse form, human forms, four-armed form, two-armed form, eight-armed form, thousand-armed form [Laughs], many different forms. In the particular forms, there’s particular pastimes for each form, and it will display a certain amount of qualities in relation to that form. If we enumerate who’s showing more and more, more qualities, at the top, we get Krishna. So this is what is the conclusion of Bhagavatam.
That’s the main purpose of Srimad Bhagavatam, to show that Krishna is the Supreme form, and everybody in Kali Yuga should worship Krishna, not even Vishnu, Krishna. So, Bhagavan was Krishna at the top. So we call Him Swayam Rupa.
He is, we can say, independent in the sense that, they’re all independent because they’re all Bhagavan, but He manifests more qualities than the others do. So He’s put in a special position. He can manifest that same form multiply, as He does with the Rasa-lila [Laughs] or in Dwaraka, 16,108 forms. And nobody knew that they were all in different palaces, even. And even Narada Muni was surprised. How can Krishna be here? And then He quickly moved to another palace, and Krishna was there. And then he moved to another palace, Krishna was there also. And then he realized it’s the same Krishna [Laughs]. But He’s everywhere.
So Krishna can expand His form without effort, which is what we call prakash forms. Then He can expand himself to other forms, which are almost like that, little bit less qualities. We say vilas forms, and they show less qualities. Svamsa forms, for instance, will have Vishnu in Vaikuntha. We get the same form, Vishnu, as Maha-Vishnu but we say He’s an expansion. Why? Because He shows a little bit less qualities than the Vishnu in Vaikuntha. And similarly, Garbhodakasayi Vishnu will have a little bit less qualities. So we say He’s an expansion from Maha Vishnu.
So we have these forms of God, slightly less qualities or slightly less qualities. These are all forms of the Lord. We get another form that’s not the Supreme Lord at all. We call them Seshavatars or Shaktyavesha avatars. These are jivas, quite separate. But they’re given special powers eternally by the Lord. So they’re also classed as avatar. So, Svayam Rupa, Krishna at the top, and then He can manifest all sorts of forms. We get tadikatmarupa, slightly less manifestation of qualities, slightly different forms. And we get Aveshrupa, that is, jivas with special powers.
Okay. So, these are forms that are in the spiritual world. They come into the material world and we call them avatars. Avatar means to descend. So if they’re in the spiritual world, we don’t call them avatar. In the material world, we can call them avatar. So, in different works like Caitanya Caritamrta, we find descriptions of the avatar types, classed Purusha avatars, Guna avatars, Lila avatars, Manvantara avatars, Yuga avatars, these different varieties.
So, Purusha avatars, everybody knows. We get the Vishnu forms. Maha Vishnu, Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, and Kshirodaksayi Vishnu. These are called the Purushas or Purusha avatars. We also call them Paramatma forms. And their function is to connect with the material world and permeate the material world. Whereas, Bhagavan sits in the spiritual world [Laughs]. Doesn’t have to connect Himself with the material world. So, when it’s time for creation, then Lord has expansions, the Purusha avatars, who carry out the creation and enter into it. So, that’s the distinction. So, their job is mainly creation, maintenance, destruction of the material universe. Spiritual world, same Vishnu, but He doesn’t do any of that. He’s simply involved in pastimes with His devotees.
So, in this way, the Lord, though He is Vairagya, completely separate from material world, enters into it on all levels. As Mahavishnu, Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, and Ksirodakasayi Vishnu. From the grossest level of Prakriti as a whole, to each universe as Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, and to each Jiva in the universe as Ksirodakasayi Vishnu. So, He penetrates everywhere within the material world. And at the same time, no effort, He’s untouched. And He’s still in the spiritual world.
So, in the material world, there are three gunas, Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas. These are material gunas. So, the Lord takes charge of the gunas through Avatars. So, for Sattva guna, Vishnu takes charge. For Rajo guna, Brahma takes charge. And for Tamo guna, Shiva takes charge. So, these are called Guna Avatars. So, Brahma is usually a Jiva. He’s given special powers for his lifetime. Not eternal powers, special powers for that lifetime. Sometimes, the Lord also can take the role of Brahma. Shiva is generally a form of Vishnu with less powers. So, we classify him as Shiva. But he’s not a Jiva. Sometimes, a Jiva can also take that role within a particular universe.
So, in this way, we have Guna Avatars. So, we have Brahma here. Brahma actually has two forms. A very subtle form called Hiranyagarbha. Even the Devatas cannot see him. And he has a subtle body made of Mahat-tattva. And we have the Vairaja Brahma. This is the forehead of Brahma who creates the universe. And we have, of course, Shiva. So, though sometimes we say, okay, Shiva is contaminated by Tamo guna. If he is actually a form of Vishnu, a lesser form of Vishnu, he cannot be contaminated. He may look like he’s contaminated, but he’s untouched [Laughs]. So, in Brahma Samhita, he is described as being like yogurt in relation to milk. Essentially, the same thing, he’s like Vishnu. But he’s also manifests less qualities. So, we put him in a separate category.
Yeah. And, of course, Ksirodakasayi Vishnu takes the role of being in charge of Sattva-guna. But He is also not sattvic. He is suddha-sattva. He is never a Jiva. So, within a day of Brahma, we get divisions of time. Just as in a day, you get divisions of hours. You know, sunrise, first hour, second hour, third hour, etc. Up till sunset. So, in a day of Brahma, we get 14 divisions. In one day is how many yuga cycles? 1,000 yuga cycles. 4 million something years each. 1,000. That’s divided up into 14, which is approximately 71. So, 71 cycles is first division of the day, first hour. Another cycle there.
So, we have Manus in charge of these. They’re called the Manvantara period. So, Manu takes charge of the first 71 yuga cycles in Brahma’s day. And he doesn’t last that long, but his descendants rule for that long. Then another personality comes along. Second one, third one, fourth one. Presently, we’re at the Vaivasvata Manvantara period. And we’re 28th cycle out of 71. So, we’re not even halfway through this Manvantara yet. This is about noon time, actually, in Brahma’s day. Seventh, seventh is it?
Devotee: Yeah.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay, so within that period, then the different Lila Avatars appear. Some of them are Shaktyavesh. Some are forms of the Lord, Tadikatma Rupas. So, a lot of them appear. They’re listed in Bhagavatam. A lot of them appear in Swayambhuva Manvantara. First part of the day of Brahma. So, we have the Kumaras appear. They actually appear at the very beginning of Brahma’s life. They’re Avesh avatars, the Jivas, the special powers. They actually last from the first day of Brahma’s life throughout his life till the end. Narada Muni also appears on the first day of Brahma’s life. He’s also Avesh avatar. What’s his Avesh? What is his special power? Bhakti yoga. Yeah. And the Kumaras, what’s their Avesh? Jnana. Jnana. They preach Jnana. They’re devotees, but they preach Jnana.
We get Varaha appearing in the first Manvantara, and He lifts up the earth in that period. He appears later on also. We get Matsya appearing and He lifts up the Vedas, or saves the Vedas. We get Yajna. He protects Swayambhuva Manu. Nara Narayana appeared and illustrated Vairagya. Kapila teaches Sankhya Bhakti Yoga in Bhagavatam. All appear in that first period. As well, we get Dattatreya appearing. He gives Atma Jnana. Hayagriva appears. He’s a horse form. He manifests the Vedas and kills Madhu and Kaitabha, the demons. We also get Hamsa, Bird Avatar appearing, who teaches Bhakti, Jnana, and Yoga. We get Dhruvapriya, Prshnigarbha. This is the form that appeared to Dhruva. Also in this first Manvantara, Rishabha Dev appears, and Prithu, who is an Avesh Avatar also, who flattens the earth and starts agriculture.
Okay, now we skip to the sixth one. Almost noon, 11 o’clock morning, chakshusha Manvantara. And then we get Narasimha Dev appearing. And He kills Hiranyakasipu and saves Prahlada. Kurma appears. The churning of the milk ocean takes place. So Kurma holds the Mandara Mountain on His back. And in that churning of the ocean, Dhanvantari appears. He starts Ayurvedic medicine. He appears later on also in Vaivasvata Manvantara. Mohini Avatar also appears, because the demons stole the nectar after they churned the ocean. So Mohini stole it back. This is the woman form of Avatar. Matsya appears again at the end of chakshusha Manvantara. And He saves Satyavrata. Varaha appears also and He kills Hiranyaksha.
Okay, then we come to our Manvantara period. Vamana appears. Of course, He also appears previously in Svayambhuva Manvantara. Parasurama is Avesh Avatar also. He appears in the 22nd cycle. Ramachandra appears in the 24th cycle, which is four cycles before our cycle, which means He appears over 16 million years ago, Ramachandra. And then in our cycle, 28th cycle, Vyasa comes and divides the Vedas into four. And Balarama and Krishna appear in the 28th cycle. And Buddha appears as Avesh Avatar. And at the end of the cycle, or Kali-yuga, Kalki appears, also Avesh Avatar. So these are the Lila Avatars that appear.
Q & A :
1.) [Not audible].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, yeah.
Devotee: So why Vishnu tattva is also Avesh? And is Buddha and Kalki are Vishnu tattva or Jiva tattva?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Which one?
Devotee: Buddha. Parasurama is Vishnu tattva.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh. He’s actually, Parasurama is considered Avesh Avatar. And generally, as far as classification by Rupa Goswami, it implies he is a Jiva. His concept of Avesh is they are all Jivas.
Devotee: Okay. And Buddha and Kalki?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Buddha, Avesh also. Because in Kali-yuga, the Lord is Triyuga only, so He doesn’t appear in Kali-yuga. So therefore, usually it’s only Avesh Avatars, Jivas that appear. So Buddha, Kalki are Avesh Avatars. And then Lord Caitanya is Channa. He hides Himself even though He is Supreme Lord. So the Kali-yuga Avatar also is Avesh Avatar, Jiva, in most cases. But the other forms are not. They are actually Vishnu tattva.
Devotee: Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself. But other yugas?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It’s all, it’s all Avesh Avatar.
Devotee: It’s again Avesh Avatar.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: And even though He is Krishna, He is Channa Avatar, He hides Himself. So He remains like, as if He is a human being [Laughs].
2.) Maharaj, you were mentioning about Brahma, who is Hiranyagarbha Brahma and the four-headed Brahma. So can you explain us, there is one Brahma who is outside the universe, who manifests along with the Adi–devas, which is mentioned in the Brahma Samhita. And there is another Brahma, which is Hiranyagarbha Brahma, which is a subtle Brahma within the universe. So can you explain, is there a difference between the two?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Between which two?
Devotee: Between the Brahma who is appearing outside the universe.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay, so that’s obviously spiritual [Laughs].
Devotee: So he is also called as Hiranyagarbha Brahma.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Oh, I see. Well, anyway, in the spiritual world, we also have Devatas. They are servants of the Lord and they have spiritual bodies there. But they’re playing the role like, you know, just like the Devatas, Indra and whatever, all surrounding Vaikuntha. So they’re there. But they’re actually Jivas, who are pure, and they’ve got spiritual bodies there. Now the Hiranyagarbha that I talked about here in the material world, is a subtle form of Brahma, who doesn’t involve in the creation, like the four-headed Brahma, who manifests all the bodies of the living entities, etc., make planetary systems, etc. So he just sits there, enjoys [Laughs]. He’s said to be like the mass of all the Jivas. So it’s like a very subtle form of everything. It’s not described in too much detail, but it’s like the subtle body of Brahma almost [Laughs].
3.) Maharaj, Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur in the tenth canto also mentions that there are three Brahmas, Hiranyagarbha Brahma, Vairaja Brahma, and Chaturmukha Brahma. So how do you distinguish between the three?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, the Vairaja here, he equates that with the four-headed Brahma here, in this one. I can’t recall why he makes that distinction there. Oh, I think he’s talking about the Vishwarupa form, actually. One of them is the Vishwarupa form. Maybe the Vairaja there is the Vishwarupa form, which is another, like almost imaginary in one sense.
Devotee: Maharaj, another one more clarification. The Shiva you mentioned, you know, he’s not, he’s free from the modes of ignorance also. So in the Madhurya Kadambini, when Caitanya tattva is discussed, it is mentioned that both Narayana and Shiva are Swatantra Ishwaras. So how do we understand?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: They are Ishwaras?
Devotee: Yeah, they are Ishwaras, Swatantra Ishwaras.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So in other words, it’s another form of Vishnu, but manifesting less qualities. So he’s not a Jiva. So in one sense he is like independent. And of course, we say in, like Nectar of Devotion that he has five qualities more than the Jivas. One of them is he has an eternal body. He’s not conditioned, sacchidananda which is eternal. But he cannot create universes like Vishnu. So he has less qualities than Maha Vishnu. So there’s a distinction between them.
Class continues…
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay, so we have Manvantara periods. We have 14 Manvantara periods. And within that, of course, we have the Manus and their descendants. But distinct from that was the avatar, who also appears within the Manvantara period and stays there for 71 yuga cycles. So each particular Manvantara period has this avatar. So we have Yajya for Swayambhuva, then Vibhu, Satyasena. In Tamasa we have Hari, who was the one who saved Gajendra. We have Vaikuntha, who made a Vaikuntha planet in the material world. Ajita, who was the one in the, He sat on top of the Mandara Mountain when they churned the Milk Ocean.
And in our particular Vaivasvata Manvantara, Vamana Deva, He stays there in Sutala Loka for the whole Manvantara period. You know, like that. Ajita. And in the Bhagavatam and Vishnu Purana, then even the future ones, in our particular day, they’re also given avatar forms as described here. So throughout the day of Brahma, there’s always an avatar present, but changing 14 times in one day. Besides that, of course, we get the Lila avatars appearing periodically. And then we get the Yuga avatars appearing every yuga. So there’s all forms of the Lord manifesting to give protection to the Jivas within the day of Brahma for all Brahma’s life.
Okay. So, we have the Yuga avatars. Generally, they expand from the Manvantara avatars, who are these people [Laughs]. Oh, these ones. So, they expand into the Yuga avatars. So they’re also Vishnu tattva, whereas the Lila avatars expand from Garbhodakasayi Vishnu. So, and they appear 1,000 times in the day of Brahma in each of the Yugas. So we get 4,000 avatars appearing, Yuga avatars appearing in one day of Brahma. In Satya Yuga, the form is called Sukla, white. In Treta, He’s called Rakta, He’s red. Dwapara, He’s Shyama, blackish. And Kali Yuga, He’s Krishna, black color. These are the normal forms. I think our Jiva Goswami says that the normal form for Dwapara Yuga is green. And so the Shyama would be a special case when Krishna comes [Laughs].
So, in any case, we have all of these different types of avatars, some of which are Shaktyavesh, whatever. And we can classify them according to the number of powers, etc., that they manifest. We cannot say they lack powers because they’re all one Bhagavan, with different form. But in that particular form, they manifest different amounts, just as the moon is one moon, but the moon manifests different amounts of light on different days. Easy to understand. So, Purnima is full. Next day is a little bit less, next day a little bit less. But one moon.
So, Bhagavan is Bhagavan, but some of the forms manifest less qualities. Less quality of controlling others, less sweetness, less mercy, less power over time entirely manifests. Definitely, they all have these qualities, but in various degrees, they will manifest in that particular form. So, fire is equally manifest in a dipa, and in a big bonfire. Same fire. But, certain things you cannot do with a candle flame like, if it’s very cold out, you cannot keep warm with a candle flame [Laughs]. But if you have a big fire, you can heat yourself very nicely. At the same time, the power is still there. So that candle can also burn down a town. Even if it’s just one little flame, it can burn down a whole town. The fire is the fire. But it manifests in different degrees, and its uses are different.
So, these different forms then show different amounts of power. And, according to those powers, they do certain lilas, other things they don’t do. So, we have the Avesh forms, like Kumaras, Narada, Prithu, Parasuram, Kalki, Buddha, Kaliyuga avatars, and Sesha, who holds up the earth, at the bottom of the thing here. It’s down there. He’s a Shaktyavesh avatar. Then we get the full forms of the Lord. We get bhava forms. Some are showing less powers, some are showing more powers.
So, Mohini, Hamsa, Yuga avatars show the least power. More powers, Dhanvantari, Rishabha, Vyasa, Dattareya, Kapila show more powers. But we see that basically they are teaching, like Kapila teaches. We don’t see him doing too much more. Vyasadeva divides the Vedas, recites Bhagavatam [Laughs], they don’t start killing demons and doing all sorts of things. The Vaibhava forms show more power than Prabhava forms.
We get Kurma, Matsya, Nara Narayana Prishnigarbha, Baladeva, 14 Manvantara avatars. And we get the Paravastha forms, Varaha, Hayagriva, Hari, Vaikuntha, Ajita, and Vamana, showing more powers. And then we get the Purna avatars, Narasimha, Rama and Krishna, showing most powers. So this is basically the hierarchy. Until we get the Purna forms. And then we get, in the Purna forms, Narasimha, Rama and Krishna at the top.
So Krishna manifests maximum powers [Laughs]. That’s represented when we say 64 qualities, as compared to Vishnu with 60 qualities. Of course, the qualities are infinite, but we just, relatively speaking, we can say 64 qualities. Of course, Krishna also manifests less qualities or more qualities. So He’s called Purna in Dwaraka, Purna-tara in Mathura and Purna-tama in Vrindavan. So His Vrindavan form shows the most qualities among even the Krishna form. And within Vrindavan itself, according to the Rasas, we’ll get more and more manifestation of qualities until we get up to Madhurya Rasa. So in this way, we get manifestation of qualities more and more and more and more, until we get Krishna at the top, and then Krishna in Vrindavan, and then Krishna in Madhurya Rasa at the top [Laughs].
One of the qualities that distinguishes Vishnu from Shiva and Jivas is hatāri-gati-dāyakaḥ. He gives a nice destination to the enemies He kills. So any form of the Lord, if they kill a demon, he doesn’t go to hell. He gets blessed. He gets a nice enjoyment in his next lifetime [Laughs]. Not necessarily liberation or Vaikuntha, but at least he gets blessing. So Narasimha Dev killed Hiranyakasipu, and Hiranyakasipu did not go to hell. Where did he go? He became Ravana, and he got to enjoy very nicely as Ravana. Ramachandra killed Ravana. And what happened to him? He became Sisupala.
So Narasimha and Rama killed demon, and he got a nice life, no hell. Krishna killed Sisupala, and what happened? Vaikuntha. Special [Laughs]. So this story is told in, I think it is one of the Puranas, but also in Laghu Bhagavatamrta to illustrate that, it shows that Krishna has greater power, because when He kills a demon, demon goes to Vaikuntha. When the others kill demons, they don’t go to Vaikuntha. And it’s not only with Sisupala, we get Putana as well, she ends up in spiritual world. Aghasura ends up in spiritual world. And many others get mukti, impersonal liberation, which even the other forms of the Lord don’t give. So Krishna is higher position.
So as I mentioned, quality of sweetness, or madhurya. Madhurya does not mean madhurya rasa here. It’s simply intimate, or madhurya, as compared to Dwaraka, which is full of aishwarya. Of course, it’s also sweet, because it’s Krishna, but there’s a lot of aishwarya there. And in Vrindavan, no aishwarya, madhurya. Intimate relationship manifested. So Krishna’s form, His rupa is madhurya. The form itself of Krishna invokes intimacy, not reverence.
So it stimulates a more intimate relationship, close relationship, which no other form does. If we see the form of Rama, we establish a reverential relationship. If we see Vishnu, we establish reverential relationship. If we see Krishna, no reverence. Close. Krishna is surrounded by devotees who are with this very sweet relationship. So we get not just servants, we get friends, we get parents, and we get gopis. And all of them are in intimate relationship with Krishna, not just one. Rama has one wife, Madhurya Rasa. Krishna has billions of gopis [Laughs]. But the difference is that the gopis never see Krishna as Supreme Lord, whereas Sita always sees Rama as Supreme Lord. So there’s reverence involved in the relationship.
Krishna, not. Even in Dwaraka, Krishna has 16,108 queens. There’s also reverence there. So Madhurya is in one sense a conjugal relationship, but reverence with gopis, no. So similarly, parents. We have Nanda and Yasoda, Vatsalya. We have Vatsalya also in Mathura and Dwaraka, Vasudeva and Devaki. But there, Vatsalya is tinged with Aishwarya. They see Krishna as Supreme Lord. Nanda and Yasoda never see Krishna as Supreme Lord, so different. So all these devotees, Madhurya, are special in Krishna. And because of the special devotees and special sweet form of Krishna, you get very sweet pastimes of Krishna. Not available with any other form of the Lord. So we get Damodara Lila, Rasa Lila etc, all of these different pastimes, very unique only to Krishna.
Lastly, we get Venu-Madhurya, where Krishna plays His flute, and this creates prema, sweet prema for everybody. So these are qualities that do not manifest in any other form of the Lord. So though we do have all these forms of the Lord, which is quite unique because most religions struggle with even accepting one form [Laughs], don’t accept one form even, now we have so many different forms of the Lord in different colors. White, black, red, yellow, green, all colors and all forms. Varaha is a boar form, horse form, fish form, turtle form, snake form [Laughs], half man-half lion form [Laughs], dwarf form, giant form, two-armed form, four-armed form, eight-armed form, thousand-armed form.
So many different forms of the Lord. So many colors available. But still, we put a higher, and they’re all one Supreme Lord, not many Lords. One is Supreme, that is Krishna. So He’s put at the top. So we have Bhagavan, they’re all Bhagavan, but Krishna is Swayam Bhagavan. He is singled out in the Bhagavatam as topmost of all. So that is the conclusion of Bhagavatam. It’s also stated at the beginning of Bhagavatam, but it’s the conclusion of Bhagavatam. And though the conclusion is there, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], we should understand that, this meaning, He manifests all wonderful qualities, more qualities than the other forms manifest.
What is the final conclusion of that is that, because He manifests these sweet qualities, intimate qualities, the prema with Krishna is more intense, and thus the ananda is more intense. So therefore, people should choose more bliss than less bliss, and choose Krishna.
Okay. Hare Krishna!
Q & A :
4.) Hare Krishna. We worship Shaligram and Govardhan sila. Shaligram and Govardhan, which form that belongs to Krishna?
Shaligrams are of course, non-different from the Supreme Lord. So they are Supreme Lord. And unlike other Murti forms, they don’t require pratishtha or installation. They’re already Supreme Lord, so you don’t do any ceremony. But Shaligram, we just worship. It could be any form. Of course, they give different names to them, but so the people may worship as Vishnu or Krishna or Rama or whatever.
5.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Thank you very much Maharaj for the explanation. Maharaj, when we are preaching, we find some who are wanting or having that reverence to the form of Narayana. So when we give the explanation of the 64 qualities of the Lord and show how Krishna is the Supreme, it’s very difficult for them to, you know, show this classification based on 64 qualities from Lord Krishna to Narayana. So because we see Rupa Goswami in our Gaudiya Parampara Acharyas have given this. Is there the same classification in the scriptures Maharaj?
Well, of course, we find this in the glorification of that form in the Nectar of Devotion of Rupa Goswami. Now, those qualities, of course are, each is listed and then it gives a quotation [Laughs] from scripture for each one. So in other words, they do come from scripture. However, Lord Caitanya Himself, when he was in Srirangam, had the same discussion with the pandits there, the pujaris [Laughs], Venkata Bhatta, but they also did not change [Laughs]. So what to speak of us? How can we convince somebody when Lord Caitanya could not convince them [Laughs]. So if somebody is convinced of worshipping a bona fide form of the Lord and they’re dedicated to that, nothing wrong with that also. So Lord Caitanya also did not insist on anything. He just left it. He said, look, even Lakshmi wants to join the Rasa Lila. But, you know, still they don’t accept. And, of course, we find even in Lord Caitanya’s Lila in Navadwipa, Murari Gupta was dedicated to Ramachandra and Lord Caitanya wanted him to worship Krishna, but He couldn’t. And so Lord Caitanya said, that’s fine. So if one is dedicated to any form of the Lord, that’s wonderful. And if you’re dedicated, then you stay like that.
6.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Maharaj, this is with respect to creation of material world, eko nārāyaṇa āsīt aham evāsam evāgre. It says the Lord alone exists before creation. In between He exists, at the end He only exists. So, is there a time when all, whole cosmos, all multi-universes gets entered into pradhana and again the Lord alone exists? Is there a time where, or else, once the material world is created and it is like Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, Ksirodakasayi Vishnu, and Maha Vishnu, they are still there, or they also get merged into the Supreme Lord, the whole cosmic manifestation gets unmanifested?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, the material worlds all disappear and only Maha Vishnu is left. When He breathes out and glances, then He manifests the world again. When He breathes in, all the material worlds disappear. Spiritual world never disappears. And the devotees in the spiritual world never disappear. So, is it only the Lord exists? I think Jiva Goswami says, well that means of course the Lord and His devotees exist [Laughs]. Not just the Lord [Laughs]. The Lord and His devotees exist. Spiritual world exists. So it’s not just the Lord.
Devotee: Because Prabhupada writes that even Purusha avataras were not there. aham evāsam evāgre. Even at that time, even Purusha avataras were not there. That’s what it is mentioned.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, at least the Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and Ksirodakasayi Vishnu disappeared. And we have the Maha Vishnu sleeping [Laughs].
Devotee: So Maha Vishnu will always be there?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, looks like that, you know.
7.) Maharaj, as aspiring Vaishnavas, in one sense conditioned, we are. So what is the right attitude for us? In hearing all these gradations and going up to all the way up to Krishna’s wonderful nama, rupa, guna, dhama, lila. As aspiring Vaishnavas in conditioned state, we are advised to practice Varnashrama. And viṣṇur ārādhyate hari-toṣaṇam. These are the verses mentioned Hari and Vishnu. So what do we do as practicing Vaishnavas? Because we preach a lot about Krishna prema. I used to say when Janmashtami comes, we only give Krishna frame. But we promise Krishna prema. What we give to our donors is Krishna in a frame, photograph. What we give is Krishna frame. But what we talk to is Krishna prema. So it’s like over promising and under delivering. So as practicing aspiring Vaishnavas in conditioned state, should we not play it in a more even keel than going beyond what is our adhikar?
Well, one adhikar is having faith so we can practice Bhakti. Once we accept Bhakti, and we accept the scriptures of Bhakti, then we say, okay, Vishnu, Krishna, they’re Supreme. We don’t have to differentiate. If we accept Lord Caitanya and conclusion of Bhagavatam, then we’ll say, there are in gradations and Krishna is Swayam Bhagavan. If we don’t want to accept Bhagavatam, we accept Vishnu Purana or whatever, we say, here Vishnu is Supreme. And as I said, Bhagavan in any form is wonderful and is acceptable. But if we are inclined more to the sweetness aspect, then we can accept Krishna as Supreme. He’s having the four extra-sweet qualities and producing sweet prema. But it’s a matter of choice at that point of which one we want to choose. And once we choose, as people in the material world doing sadhana Bhakti, then we make that our goal and then we practice for that. Rather than saying, well, since that’s a high goal, we’ll take another goal now and practice for that. Then if you do that, you’ll attain that goal, not Krishna [Laughs]. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with it, if it’s a form of Bhagavan. But if you’re choosing Krishna, then you stick to Krishna and you do sadhana for Krishna and prema. So that’s the prayojana. So we cannot separate the sadhana from the goal, the abhidheya from the prayojana. You can’t have a sadhana without a goal. So our general goal is Bhagavan. But then we start to differentiate which form of Bhagavan. So then we also have to choose there. And if we’re going to choose Lord Caitanya’s Sampradaya, generally we’re choosing Krishna [Laughs]. So that becomes our goal, Krishna prema, not Vishnu prema. And then we do the sadhana to attain that.
8.) While practicing in the Varnashrama system, do we need to worry about the five Rasa in which Rasa I am, while we are in Varnashrama?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, whether you’re in Varnashrama or not in Varnashrama, Bhakti is available for anything, for everybody. Whether you’re a swapacha or whatever, you can go beyond the Varnashrama system. By chanting the name of Narayana even once you go beyond the Varnashrama system [Laughs]. Chanting the name of the Lord once purely, the swapacha or dog eater is superior to a brahmana. So we surpass the Varnashrama system. So we don’t really have to worry so much about Varnashrama in Bhakti in general, not just for Krishna, but any form of the Lord. So Bhakti itself, if we practice Bhakti, we’re not dependent upon varna or ashrama at all. We can use them as convenient, but we’re not dependent on them.
Devotee: Thank you Maharaj.
9.) Hare Krishna. Thank you Maharaj. Maharaj, as you mentioned that we have to choose that which form of the Lord. So is it a matter of our choice that which form of the Lord we want? Like in case of Murari Gupta also, Caitanya Mahaprabhu told that you are eternally servant of Lord Rama only. And till the time we choose a particular form or we are situated in a rasa, we are always conditioned. So how can we choose that this form we want, Narayana or Krishna or anything? Or is there anything that eternally or originally, which rasa we were, so we’ll be naturally inclined to that?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, if we’re in a material, we choose something. If you choose nothing, you don’t worship anybody. So you choose to worship somebody, yeah? And you may worship any form of the Lord. You may join any sampradaya also. So that’s all your choice. And according to that choice and your method, then you get a particular goal.
Devotee: So like in case of Gopakumar also, there he made a choice with a particular, he was attracted with a particular thing, particular form. And when he went there, then he felt, I’m not satisfied. Then he went to other, then again he was not satisfied, then again went to other. So we’ll make some choice.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No, well, he originally got a Krishna mantra by mercy of Guru and he chanted that. So that’s the form he expected. And when he saw other forms, he couldn’t accept.
Devotee: So it’s just a matter of which mantra we are getting. So in that case, if he could have got another mantra.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Could.
Devotee: Then he would have, that would have been his final destiny?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Something else. Yeah.
Devotee: But Krishna told, when he reached to Krishna, that I was waiting for you for a long time. That means he belonged to there. Or how can we understand that? Like Krishna, when he reached to Krishna finally in Goloka Vrindavan, there Krishna told, I was waiting for you for a long time. You took very long to come back to me. So how we can, his place belonged to Goloka Vrindavan only?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, actually, Vishnu also said that [Laughs]. He said, actually, I came as the Guru to give you this Krishna mantra [Laughs]. And I was wondering how long, many lives it’ll take you. So then I came myself in the form of a Guru and gave him the Krishna mantra.
Devotee: So comparing it like Murari Gupta’s case, he was eternally servant of Lord Rama. But in other case, maybe in Jiva tattva, how to understand, like in case of Murari Gupta, he was told by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that you are eternally servant of Lord Rama, that’s why you’re not attracted to. And as you also mentioned, even that case of South Indian, these pujaris and all, even Caitanya Mahaprabhu could not change that, whom they were trying to, like from Lord Narayana to Krishna.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So?
Devotee: So it can be changed just by giving a separate mantra, different form of Lord, or it can be.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, of course, you get the mantra. You don’t have to chant it. You could choose not to accept the mantra also. But he accepted and he chanted. And he was influenced by that. But another person may not even accept the mantra [Laughs].
Devotee: Thank you Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Hare Krishna!
Devotees: HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!