Srimad Bhagavatam 2.4.7 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 23 June 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2 Chapter 4 Verse 7.
ŚB 2.4.7
yathā gopāyati vibhur
yathā saṁyacchate punaḥ
yāṁ yāṁ śaktim upāśritya
puru-śaktiḥ paraḥ pumān
ātmānaṁ krīḍayan krīḍan
karoti vikaroti ca
Synonyms
yathā — as; gopāyati — maintains; vibhuḥ — the great; yathā — as; saṁyacchate — winds up; punaḥ — again; yām yām — as; śaktim — energies; upāśritya — by employing; puru-śaktiḥ — the all-powerful; paraḥ — the Supreme; pumān — Personality of Godhead; ātmānam — plenary expansion; krīḍayan — having engaged them; krīḍan — as also personally being engaged; karoti — does them; vikaroti — and causes to be done; ca — and.
Translation
Kindly describe how the Supreme Lord, who is all-powerful, engages His different energies and different expansions in maintaining and again winding up the phenomenal world in the sporting spirit of a player.
Purport
In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad (2.2.13) the Supreme Lord is described as the chief eternal being amongst all other eternal individual beings (nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām) and the one Supreme Lord who maintains innumerable other individual living beings (eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān). So all living entities, both in the conditioned state and in the liberated state, are maintained by the Almighty Supreme Lord. Such maintenance is effected by the Lord through His different expansions of Self and three principal energies, namely the internal, external and marginal energies. The living entities are His marginal energies, and some of them, in the confidence of the Lord, are entrusted with the work of creation also, as are Brahmā, Marīci, etc., and the acts of creation are inspired by the Lord unto them (tene brahma hṛdā). The external energy (māyā) is also impregnated with the jīvas, or conditioned souls. The unconditioned marginal potency acts in the spiritual kingdom, and the Lord, by His different plenary expansions, maintains them in different transcendental relations displayed in the spiritual sky. So the one Supreme Personality of Godhead manifests Himself in many (bahu syām), and thus all diversities are in Him, and He is in all diversities, although He is nevertheless different from all of them. That is the inconceivable mystic power of the Lord, and as such everything is simultaneously one with and different from Him by His inconceivable potencies (acintya-bhedābheda-tattva).
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So, this is the request of Pariksit Maharaj that Sukadev explain how the Lord is able to control everything even though He is different from everything. So, in the material world, we control something, and we manage something, but we are contacting that other thing, and we get contaminated by it. We can’t manage it, and at the same time, remain completely detached from it. So, how does the Lord manage to manifest His whole material creation, which is greater than any other management, and still remain completely untouched by it?
Of course, if we take the example of a person making a pot, he makes the pot out of clay, and his hands get dirty. But of course, you could wear gloves, or so many things, so physically, you can separate yourself a little bit from what you are creating. But still, you create the pot, and the pot is created because you thought of making a certain shape, and certain design, and if the pot is faulty, you also get the blame. So, whatever fault is in the material world, we can blame on Supreme Lord. If the Jivas are suffering, blame it on Supreme Lord. If we say it’s because they are sinful, then blame the sin on the Supreme Lord.
So, there is a problem when we have Supreme Lord and other things. How does the Lord relate to those things, without getting affected in any way? So, we cannot apply material logic to Supreme Lord. So, because we have the example of the potter and the pot, and the faults related to them, we cannot say the same type of relationship as with the Supreme Lord and His creation. At the same time, we never want to say that the Lord does not create the material world, and does not control it. This, of course, is one way of solving the problem. We can say, Supreme Lord exists, perfect, and the material world, imperfect. It’s all illusion. So, therefore, the Lord doesn’t have to react with it all, because it’s illusory. So, that is the mayavad solution to the problem of the Lord and contamination. So, of course, the scriptures tell us, yes, okay, the Lord is illusory in one sense, but at the same time, there are so many statements, like the whole Bhagavatam, talking about creation, and never says it’s illusion.
So, all of the Vaishnavas accept that the material world is real. It’s not illusory. The Supreme Lord is real, but matter is real also. But then, the Vaishnavas have to explain, how does the Lord relate to the material world? Okay, first step is to go to scripture itself and see what scripture says. So, of course, in Bhagavatam, we get an explanation. So, part of that explanation is here explained in the purport, the Lord is there, and He acts through His Shaktis. So, His material Shakti manifests this material world. And so, He is one step removed from direct interaction. At the same time, when we talk of Shakti, we have to talk of the possessor of the Shakti, the Shaktiman. The Shakti does not exist independently of everything. So, there is a relationship with the material world, but it is indirect via the material Shakti. So, therefore, the Shakti is part of the solution to that problem.
Of course, we can say, well, the Shakti is directly related to the Lord, so still He gets contamination [Laughs]. But, at least, the contamination that we are familiar with in the world, such as ignorance, and sinful activity, and violence, etc., that is part of the matter, so it is not directly related to the Lord. So, apart from the idea of Shakti, then we also have the relationship of the Lord with His Shaktis. And we have a concept of the Shakti and the Shaktiman are non-different and at the same time, they are different. So, they are different, just like Radha and Krishna are different, because we see they have different forms, but at the same time, we say they are one.
So, in explaining in this way, this is a way of explaining the contradictory statements of the Upanishads. Sometimes, I speak everything as one. Only Brahman exists. This, of course, is what Shankaracharya emphasizes. But then we also have opposite statements in the Upanishads. The Lord said, let there be many, and He created all the material worlds and all the bodies, etc. So, we have statements of oneness, but we also have statements of many. So, then it is the duty of the Acharya to explain how to solve the contradiction. So, one way is to say, okay, the real truth is oneness. And all statements of many are metaphorical only.
Or, we can take the opposite and say, okay, we will emphasize difference. Lord is there, matter is there, Jiva is there, difference. All that is also stated in the Upanishads, Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita, etc. But then, what to do with this oneness statements? So, we can say, those are all metaphorical.
So, in this way, we will have great arguments between followers of Advaita and followers of Dvaita and they will argue who is interpreting what [Laughs]. And off course we can interpret one or the other.
So, Lord Caitanya takes another strategy and says lets accept both statements. So, we will not interpret the oneness as saying it is metaphorical, nor we will say that the duality is metaphorical. But, then one is stuck with logical impossibility. How can it be both? And that is the very reason why we either have Advaita philosophy or Dvaita philosophy, because they want to make one superior to the other, so there is no contradiction. So, Lord Caitanya says, well, we have difference, we have non-difference, we have oneness, and we have many. In the material world, that is contradictory. But, for the Supreme Lord and the spiritual world it is not contradictory. So, it is often stated that supreme lord can do the impossible. So, in other words, He has certain Acintya, or inconceivable power. And that particularly applies to the fact that contrary in the material world, or contrary states, like oneness and difference, can exist simultaneously. So, in that manner, we do not have to interpret some of the statements as metaphorical. So, that is a solution that Lord Caitanya has come up with to solve this problem of the contrary statements of scripture.
Of course, our Acharyas also say that, yes, simultaneously one and different, but there is a little more emphasis upon the difference. So, we have this philosophy to accept the reality of material world and Jivas. And at the same time, we want to keep the Lord completely aloof from everything in the material world. So, keeping the Lord aloof, this is why there is a difference. But, because He controls everything, then this is the oneness.
So, in terms of the material creation, Pariksit Maharaj is asking this question, how the Lord uses His different energies for the material creation? So, one energy is material energy, external energy. So, all material world is all that energy. But it does not operate independently, it is under the Lord’s control. So, different from the Lord, but not independent of the Lord. But the material world does not exist by itself. It is there because of Jivas. So, who are the Jivas? Another Shakti of the Lord. The Tatastha Shakti. They are very distinct from the material Shakti because they are conscious. But they are also dependent on the Supreme Lord because they are simply Shakti. So, when we talk about the material world, we are actually talking about two Shaktis. That is Jivas and matter.
So all the planets are created for the jivas, all the bodies are created for the jivas. So, we have all discussion in the 3rd canto, 4th canto and 5th canto all these different creations. So, creation is for the jivas but ultimately its all arranged by the Supreme Lord. But in supervising everything the Lord also does it indirectly. Of course, first we have His Shakti, not Himself directly but through His Shaktis. And then He acts through certain Jivas, the Devatas to help supervise the material creation and maintenance. So, this is another way in which the Lord exerts His control but indirectly through Jivas. At the same time, the Lord also enters into the material world as Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and Ksirodakasayi Vishnu.
And He also appears as Avatars. But though He appears directly through His expansions of Vishnu and the Avatars, still, He is completely untouched by anything. And why does the Lord enter in like this? Because of the Jivas.
So, this question about how the Lord creates the material world, etc., also involves the relationship between matter, Jivas and the Supreme Lord. So, it shows how the Lord controls everything, He also takes an interest in it, but He is completely untouched by it. Hare Krishna.
Q & A :
1.) So here, Pariksit Maharaj is asking regarding this, how Supreme Lord, you know, by using His energies to do creation, destroy everything. But, you are saying that, although these Advaitas, they don’t accept the energy. Then, how do they explain the world, which is we see in the material world? Because, we see them in the whole material world, like a whole material is a display of His energy only. But, do they say it like an illusion, that energy is an illusion?
So, for the Advaitavada person, only Brahman exists, nothing else exists, there is no Shakti, there is no reality of anything, even the Jiva. Anything that seems to exist is an illusion. So, matter is illusion, body is illusion and Jiva is an illusion. Only Brahman exists.
Devotee: Suppose, there is a fire. If you keep the hand in the fire, fire will burn. So, can they explain that fire also is illusion, because the burning also illusion.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: All illusion. [Laughs]. So, if you have a dream, in the dream, you may burn your hand and you may hurt. But, it’s an illusion. And you wake up and you say, oh, it’s an illusion. The whole material world is ultimately illusion, everything here. Now, they have what we call virtual reality. You put on these glasses and then you can have this whole thing and you feel like you are in that world. So, whole creation is like that, doesn’t really exist.
Devotee: That means then, Brahman doesn’t create this illusion.Then, who created this illusion?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, this is the problem in that philosophy, ultimately, ignorance or illusion. If it’s not real or whatever, but nevertheless, we are in that illusion or whatever. How is it? It seems to be real. If it’s not real, then, you know, why we have this feeling of something at all? And if it is, If illusion is there, then there is no oneness. Because there is Brahman and something else, an illusion of Brahman.
So, in that sense, there is some attack that the Vaishnavas make on that philosophy, that how can there be real oneness if there is illusion? And illusion itself means there is something other than Brahman or more powerful than Brahman.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. We see the invocation mantra of Isopanishad, oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ. So, according to that, Lord is complete and whole and whatever emanates from Him is also complete and whole. But we see material world is full of false, ocean of faults. Like, isn’t it contradictory, Maharaj?
So, the perfecteness is that the Lord has different energies including the jiva, material word etc., and He is in perfect control of them. What we perceive as fault in the material world may be our perception of fault. Somebody else may think it’s not a fault [Laughs]. But apart from that, the reason we have the material world as it is for the Jivas who are suffering or whatever is because of the nature of Jivas. So, the Jivas by nature can be subject to ignorance. That’s why they are called tatastha. And because they are in ignorance, they get a material world. And then in illusion, they do activities, they get karma and they suffer. So, that suffering is a result of ignorance and the ignorance is, we can say, part of the Jiva. So, we cannot blame the Lord for that particular suffering and ignorance, it’s the Jiva in ignorance. So, the nature of Jiva is Tatastha. So, he does not have to be ignorant. He can choose to get knowledge.
So, because the Jiva does not choose knowledge, he chooses ignorance, then the fault of the material world and its suffering goes to the Jiva, not to the Lord. Of course, the only fault we can give to the Lord is why he makes us, Jivas at all [Laughs]. The answer to that is, of course, if there is only Supreme Lord there, then where is the bliss? So, the Lord’s bliss arises from Rasa, Rasa arises from difference, Lord and somebody else.
3.) Maharaj yesterday you told not lamenting is an anga of bhakti, So, for a person like me the day doesn’t end without lamenting to the deities about the problems which ever I am suffering. So, lamenting to Krishna about the problem, at least by that way a person thinks about Krishna. So how can we take this, Maharaj, lamenting?
So that anga of Bhakti is there to indicate that in practicing Bhakti we are not too attached to our material conditions. If we are overcome by material emotions including lamentation, obviously it means we are too attached to our material body [Laughs]. So as I previously said, one of the qualifications of a Bhakti is not too much materially attached [Laughs].
4.) Maharaj, if a devotee is satisfied in his own rasa, like for example, on a Sadhaka perspective, he is satisfied in Santa rasa for example. So only on rasa hierarchy, Madhurya is high and Santa is low. So then why I have to aspire for the highest rasa? Why I have to aspire for highest rasa? When a devotee is satisfied in his own rasa, why I have to?
So objectively we have this gradation of rasas according to intensity. But if a particular jiva is attracted to a certain rasa, that becomes the highest for him. And there is no question of striving for something else. And why? Because this is the nature of spiritual satisfaction. So some jivas are satisfied with worshipping Vishnu in Vaikuntha and they don’t aspire for anything else. So from a broad perspective we can say, oh, they are inferior to the inhabitants of Goloka. But for those people living in Vaikuntha, it’s the opposite. That’s the highest. Vaikuntha is the highest [Laughs]. Just like when Gopakumar went to Vaikuntha, he still had his cowherd dress on and everything. He was there. Everyone was looking at him and said, change your clothes. But he on the other hand was not impressed with that place. So therefore he left.
5.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, in the purport of second verse of this chapter, Srila Prabhupada says that we should dovetail all our material assets in devotional service. So those who are coming to the temple, even though they are not practicing devotional service, but they give donation to the temple. So what benefit they will derive from this, Maharaj?
Different types of people can give to the Lord. One who is practicing pure Bhakti also can give to the Lord. However, those who are let’s say borderline, they come to the temple, they pray and they give something, their Bhakti usually is not pure. Nevertheless, they are giving something. So in any case, one should worship the Lord. So the Lord responds and He also gives them if they have material desires and He also purifies them. If one worships the Lord, if one has the desire to worship the Lord, the Lord fulfills that desire.
Devotee : [Not clear].
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Well, they are doing Bhakti in one sense because they are worshipping the Lord, but it’s not on the purest level, that’s all. But by doing that, they become purified.
6.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, Mahaprabhu said goodness and badness are illusion and only God is real. How to understand this, Maharaj?
So, concepts of good and bad, dharma and adharma are part of the material world. So, dharma, we associate with Sattva and adharma, with tamas [Laughs]. But it’s all material. Sattva, Rajas, Tamas is all material. And thus, Paapa and Punya are both part of the material world and ultimately they get rejected. They both create karma. They bind us to the material world. So, in the practice of devotion, we surpass both of these.
7.) In schools to children they teach Sastric studies, they are not telling about Mahaprabhu they are telling the invations of invasions of Arabs, Turks, Britishers, French. Now like the young students, they are fantasizing themselves as Sultans, Britishers. Like, how to preach them, Maharaj?
Well, schools are teaching history. History, of course, is a little bit controversial, because everybody has a different interpretation of history [Laughs]. But even the history put in Bhagavatam, of all the different dynasties, ultimately is all said to be illusion. All those struggles and all of those positions are temporary. So, instead of striving for the temporary, we should strive for something permanent. [Laughs].That should be the ultimate goal of studying history [Laughs].
8.) Maharaj, this is in continuation of the question on Rasa. We see, Alwars have given this 4000 Divya Prapantham slokas. There are so many Alwars who have given an amazing description of Krishna lila. Very, very deep relationship with Krishna. But overall, if we see the entire Sampradaya, it’s towards Vishnu. How do we understand this?
So, it is a matter of how their Acharyas take all those different verses and see their relative importance with the other verses. That’s all. And if their philosophical conclusion is that Vishnu is supreme, then all those other descriptions will have to fit into that.
9.) Maharaj, in Bhagavad Gita, in the 7th chapter, there is one shloka “yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ”. So, my understanding is, Maharaj, you may please tell it is correct, that it says that once the sinful activities are finished, the person becomes dṛḍha or determined in bhakti. But anyone can do bhakti. So, which means that anyone can do bhakti, but as the sinful activities goes on reducing or becoming zero, he becomes more determined. Is this understanding correct, Maharaj?
So, in general, we can say that sinful activities are unfavorable for bhakti. They are an anartha. However, sin does not disqualify one from beginning the process of bhakti. And by performance of bhakti, the anarthas get destroyed. So, that we see in the case of Ajamila, who wasn’t even a devotee, but he got all his karmas and his vasanas destroyed by uttering the name of Narayana, even though he was most sinful. And then he became a devotee.
10.) Hare Krishna, Maharaj. Maharaj, in context of today’s class, Krishna’s relationship, Lord’s relationship with the material world, can we say that the beginning of the ninth chapter, the few verses which are there, where Krishna is explaining this control yet difference, so that actually explains the simultaneous oneness and difference of the Lord with the material world?
Yeah. So, yes, our Acharyas take those verses as examples of that.
11.) Hare Krishna, Maharaj. Maharaj, we see some male devotees keep flowers on their ears. What is the significance of it and is there any reference from scriptures?
I suppose because it’s offered to the Lord as prasadam. That’s why they keep it.
12.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, can you please explain about complete annihilation of the material world?
So, annihilation takes place after 100 years of Brahma. So, the gross elements merge into the subtle elements. The subtle elements merge into Mahatattva. Mahatattva merges into Prakriti. And thus, all of the universes disappear. And all the Jivas from all the universes merge into Mahavishnu.
13.) Which category the avatar of Vyasa comes under?
In Laghu Bhagavatamrta, there Rupa Goswami says he is a full avatar.
Devotee: This Vyasa, correct? But other Vyasas come under Saktyaveshavatara.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, there is controversy about that [Laughs]. Because there is a whole list of Vyasas in the different Kali Yugas or before Kali Yugas.
14.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. Does the Achintya Bheda-abheda understanding disappear for a pure devotee? Is dvaita vada most suitable way for pure devotion?
Well all the Vaishnava Sampradayas have a different philosophy, but they are all acceptable.
However as I explained in the class, if we go to Dvaita, then they have to interpret all of the oneness statements. So the combination of oneness and difference is a balance between those extremes.
15.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. In the scriptures like Srimad Bhagavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, etc., there are so many phala shrutis. After reading so many scriptures, still there are anarthas and material desires in us. How can we understand this?
So we have so many anarthas after reading scriptures? So there are many results from reading scriptures. Of course, for the devotees, they are not interested in the material results. And often the spiritual result is you get liberation. But the devotees are not interested in either of those things. So hearing scripture is one aspect of bhakti and all types of bhakti destroy anarthas. If one has committed no aparadhas in this and previous lifetimes, then the destruction of anarthas is very quick. But if we’ve committed aparadhas, then the process becomes slower and then we distinguish bhajana kriya, anarthana nivritti, nistha, etc.
16.) Lord creates the material world for the jivas. Can you also understand that Lord created the jivas? If so, why is there partiality? as there are eternal jiva in Lords abode and the conditioned jivas?
So there is no creation of jivas. So all we can say, there are some jivas in the spiritual world, many of which are nitya siddhas, some of which are sadhana siddhas and there is also jivas in the material world. So the question of who placed them there does not arise. If the jiva chooses, then he can practice bhakti and go to the spiritual world and then he is a sadhana siddha. So if a jiva is in the material world, it means that from time with no beginning, he is chosen to disrespect the Lord. And to change the jivas mind the lord appears in every day of Brahma, so many times as 1000 times as yuga-avatar, lila-avatar etc., plus devotees plus manus and their decedents to help the jivas make a better choice.
17.) Can Krishna alter the tatastha sakti of the jiva so that they don’t choose ignorance?
Well, tatastha sakti is always tatastha sakti. They never change.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!