Srimad Bhagavatam 10.87.4-13 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Japan | 3 May 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 87 Verse 4.
ŚB 10.87.4
atra te varṇayiṣyāmi
gāthāṁ nārāyaṇānvitām
nāradasya ca saṁvādam
ṛṣer nārāyaṇasya ca
Synonyms
atra — in this connection; te — to you; varṇayiṣyāmi — I will relate; gāthām — an account; nārāyaṇa-anvitām — concerning the Supreme Lord, Nārāyaṇa; nāradasya — of Nārada; ca — and; saṁvādam — the conversation; ṛṣeḥ nārāyaṇasya — of Śrī Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi; ca — and.
Translation
In this connection I will relate to you a narration concerning the Supreme Lord Nārāyaṇa. It is about a conversation that once occurred between Śrī Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi and Nārada Muni.
Purport
Lord Nārāyaṇa is connected in two ways with the following narration: as its speaker and as the subject it describes.
Text 5
Translation
Once, while traveling among the various planets of the universe, the Lord’s beloved devotee Nārada went to visit the primeval sage Nārāyaṇa at His āśrama.
Text 6
Translation
From the very beginning of Brahmā’s day Lord Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi has been undergoing austere penances in this land of Bhārata while perfectly performing religious duties and exemplifying spiritual knowledge and self-control — all for the benefit of human beings in both this world and the next.
Text 7
Translation
There Nārada approached Lord Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi, who was sitting amidst sages of the village of Kalāpa. After bowing down to the Lord, O hero of the Kurus, Nārada asked Him the very same question you have asked me.
Text 8
Translation
As the sages listened, Lord Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi related to Nārada an ancient discussion about the Absolute Truth that took place among the residents of Janaloka.
Text 9
Translation
The Personality of Godhead said: O son of self-born Brahmā, once long ago on Janaloka, wise sages who resided there performed a great sacrifice to the Absolute Truth by vibrating transcendental sounds. These sages, mental sons of Brahmā, were all perfect celibates.
Purport
Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī explains that the word satram here refers to a Vedic sacrifice in which all the participants are equally qualified to serve as priests. In this instance, each of the sages present in Janaloka could speak equally well on the topic of Brahman.
Text 10
Translation
At that time you happened to be visiting the Lord on Śvetadvīpa — that Supreme Lord in whom the Vedas lie down to rest during the period of universal annihilation. A lively discussion arose among the sages on Janaloka as to the nature of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Indeed, the same question arose then that you are asking Me now.
Text 11
Translation
Although these sages were all equally qualified in terms of Vedic study and austerity, and although they all saw friends, enemies and neutral parties equally, they chose one of their number to be the speaker, and the rest became eager listeners.
Text 12-13
Translation
Śrī Sanandana replied: After the Supreme Lord withdrew the universe He had previously created, He lay for some time as if asleep, and all His energies rested dormant within Him. When the time came for the next creation, the personified Vedas awakened Him by chanting His glories, just as the poets serving a king approach him at dawn and awaken him by reciting his heroic deeds.
Purport
At the time of creation, the Vedas are the first emanation from the breathing of Lord Mahā-Viṣṇu, and in personified form they serve Him by waking Him from His mystic sleep. This statement made by Sanandana implies that Sanaka and the other sages had asked him the same question that Nārada had asked Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi and Mahārāja Parīkṣit had asked Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Sanandana refers the question back to the example of the personified Vedas themselves in their address to Lord Mahā-Viṣṇu. Even though the Vedas knew that the Lord, being omniscient, does not need to be informed of His glories, they enthusiastically took this opportunity to praise Him.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So Parikshit asks a question to Sukadeva Goswami. And then Sukadeva Goswami relates how Nara Narayana Rishi was speaking to Narada. So Narada asks the same question to Narayana Rishi. So Narayana Rishi then said, will the residents of Janaloka ask the same question? And Sanandana then replied, well, the answer will be found in the prayers of the personified Vedas. So, this question is very important because we see that it was discussed so many times. And we see that very great sages are inquiring, Narada is inquiring, the people in Janaloka are inquiring, etc. So, it’s a, we say also it’s not just an important question, it’s a common question.
And the essential question that is asked is, How can anything, including the Vedas, describe a Supreme Lord who is spiritual? And first of all, who is that Supreme? Is it impersonal with no qualities at all, or is it Bhagavan who has qualities which are spiritual? And if it is Brahman with no qualities at all, then of course it becomes more difficult to describe, even if you have spiritual words [Laughs], because Brahman has no qualities, even spiritual qualities [Laughs]. And even if we accept the form of God with qualities and activities, etc. How is it possible that words from the material world can describe spiritual qualities? So, this of course is an important question.
Is God impersonal or personal? And how can even spiritual qualities be discussed using material words? And these questions are discussed by great sages. And the answers themselves, if we look closely, will also be found in the scriptures themselves. However, as was explained in the previous purport, sometimes the Vedas do not speak directly. And therefore, we have to look for the answer very carefully. And in the original answer of Sukadeva Goswami, his answer was, well, the Supreme Lord creates the intelligence and the pranas, etc.
Sukadeva Goswami said the Lord has created the intelligence, pranas, etc. so that the living entities can enjoy in this material world. And this also doesn’t sound like an answer to the question [Laughs]. So here, when the personified Vedas speak also, we’ll find many things discussed and we’ll have to say, well, how is this related to the answer as well [Laughs]? However, we do find the answer in these prayers of the personified Vedas. Of course, because the personified Vedas are speaking, that is, Vedas are speaking, they are often referring to the Vedas themselves.
So the prayers are enlarging upon certain statements of the Vedas. So these prayers are a little bit, we can say, complicated. One is because they are referring to statements in the Upanishads. And we will find that of all the different sections of the Bhagavatam, the Acharyas write very extensive commentaries on each of these verses. Of course, we can say that in two other places, we’ll find that the Acharyas write extensive commentaries. One is the prayers of Brahma after he stole the calves.
Devotee: Can you say it again?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: When Brahma stole the calves, after he stole the claves, then he offers some prayers to Krishna. So all the Acharyas write extensive commentaries on these prayers of the Lord Brahma. Of course, Brahma is describing Krishna. The other place that has extensive commentaries is the five chapters on the Rasa-lila [Laughs]. So the prayers of the personified Vedas and the prayers of Brahma are, we can say, quite philosophical. Therefore, there is lots of commentary on them. They are long and complicated because the verses themselves are complicated [Laughs]. For instance, in verse 14, where the Vedas begin to speak, then there’s like three pages of commentary on that one [Laughs]. And then the next verse also three pages of commentary [Laughs].
So what this also indicates is that, even though ultimately the goal is rasa in the Bhagavatam and thus we have extensive commentaries on rasa, we do also have to have, in order to appreciate rasa, we have to have the correct philosophical idea. So many devotees following Lord Caitanya, they will say, well, let us discuss the Rasa-lila and all these pastimes of Krishna and Radha, etc. Why do we need philosophy? We see that there are many commentators on Bhagavatam. But there’s more commentaries on tenth canto of Bhagavatam. There’s even more commentaries on the five chapters of the Rasa-lila [Laughs].
So nothing wrong with that, because Rasa-lila is the highest expression of rasa [Laughs]. But then we have to question, why do we have the rest of the Bhagavatam? Why not just have five chapters of Bhagavatam? Rasa-lila, that’s the highest thing, we don’t need anything else. However, we have not only tenth canto, we have twelve cantos of Bhagavatam [Laughs]. And besides discussing about Krishna, this all talks about creation and sub-creation, etc., all these different topics.
So though, topics of Krishna and rasa are the highest thing and most important, our Acharyas also say that, all these other topics are also important. They’re important because it gives us a basis by which we can understand rasa properly. So normal human beings are not qualified to appreciate rasa, spiritual rasa. However, if we can understand the position of Krishna, position of Bhagavan, etc., nature of material world, then we can at least have some qualification for understanding rasa.
So in one place there is, I think it’s the second canto, there is a description of Vishnu. I think it’s Paramatma form actually [Laughs]. So Prabhupada explains, actually we don’t just look at the face of Vishnu, we start with the feet and then we go up [Laughs] gradually and finally we see the face [Laughs]. So similarly, we go through the Bhagavatam, all the different cantos, then we come to the tenth canto.
So in other words, all this other information in the Bhagavatam is supporting our understanding of rasa. So though Lord Caitanya is emphasizing chant the holy name and appreciate Radha Krishna, at the same time, He also refers to scripture. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself always gave reference to scripture, even though He’s talking about spontaneous love, prema, etc., He’s also saying that we have to support this with scripture.
Among Lord Caitanya’s followers, Rupa, Sanatana and Jiva are very famous. So they’re famous because they wrote commentaries. So in other words, Lord Caitanya’s movement is based upon understanding of scripture. Rupa Goswami, when he discusses raganuga bhakti, then he says we should not think that, you know, raganuga is spontaneous, that we ignore scripture [Laughs]. We don’t ignore scripture. So he explains that in order to begin rasa, or raganuga bhakti, we need a taste for it, a greed for it. We need a great desire for raganuga bhakti in order to practice it. We only get that great desire by hearing Bhagavatam and the pastimes of Krishna [Laughs]. After we practice raganuga bhakti, we have to understand proper method. So that method is also described in scripture.
So therefore, even in raganuga bhakti, which is quite spontaneous, we also rely on scripture. And if we follow vaidhi bhakti, of course, we rely more on scripture [Laughs]. So even if we’re worshipping Krishna and appreciating rasa, but we’re following vaidhi bhakti, then very necessarily we must understand scripture. So similarly, we see that Srila Prabhupada, though he began the movement by inspiring people to chant Hare Krishna, he was always lecturing on Bhagavad Gita and Bhagavatam.
So in the beginning, he was chanting in the park, and everyone was dancing and very enthusiastic [Laughs]. And then they would have, Prabhupada would be speaking, I think it was in Matchless Gifts, a little shop, and he would give lectures there [Laughs]. But the people that were listening, it was very difficult for them to understand anything [Laughs]. But Srila Prabhupada never gave up. He continued to lecture. And meanwhile, he was typing on his typewriter the commentaries on Bhagavatam and commentary on Bhagavad Gita [Laughs]. So it was a very enthusiastic plea, following the example of the previous Acharyas. And that is to give a very strong foundation of scripture for all of our practice of bhakti yoga.
Hare Krishna!
Q & A :
1.) Maharaj, but we also say that if you chant name properly, the name will reveal everything. So there we don’t say that you chant and say, we just say the name will reveal. So why is it like that?
So, of course, we find the most prominent teaching of Lord Caitanya is chant the holy name, harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21], only the holy name, nothing else [Laughs]. That is statement, Lord Caitanya states like that to emphasize that this is the most important activity. But we see that Lord Caitanya Himself and His followers did other aspects of bhakti, hearing, remembering, deity worship, sadhu sanga [Laughs], they also follow these things [Laughs]. So, Harinama is the main activity and all these other parts of bhakti are supporting it. So, we often, not only us, but scripture itself often emphasizes sadhu sanga. And, of course, necessity of Guru. So then, how does that fit in with only chant the holy name [Laughs]? So, we can look at the example of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He was daily chanting the holy name. But, when he was in Puri, then he would also be listening to Bhagavatam from the devotees [Laughs]. So, he was having sadhu sanga, he was doing sravana. So, what is the relation between sadhu sanga, sravana and kirtan? So, as I said, the sadhu sanga and the sravana support the kirtan. So, how do they support? Is kirtan independent or is it dependent on other things? So, ultimately, chanting the Lord’s name is the most powerful aspect of bhakti. And, even if you chant accidentally or with no faith, you still get results. We get results in the form of destruction of karma. But the goal of the devotee is prema. So, I explained last night is, if you do pure bhakti, chant purely, you get prema. And, if you do some mixed bhakti or sattva-guna bhakti or whatever [Laughs], you don’t get prema. You get something, but you don’t get prema. By this impure chanting, you can get liberation, salokya, sarupya. So, you can get a spiritual body in Vaikuntha, you can live in Vaikuntha, and you may get santa-rati [Laughs]. So, in other words, how to chant purely? So, to chant purely, we have to know what the impurities are, what aparadhas are [Laughs]. So, Bhaktivinoda Thakur classified these anarthas into two groups. One is ignorance. The other is material desires. So, ignorance consists of, if we’re ignorant and we chant, it’s an impurity. So, what is ignorance? We’re ignorant of difference between Krishna and jivas. We’re ignorant of the nature of the name. Of course, it’s not different from Krishna. If we’re ignorant, we don’t think like that. We may also not appreciate that Krishna has form qualities and activities which are spiritual. So, if we chant but we have this type of ignorance of these different things, we don’t get prema [Laughs]. Then how do we get that, how do we negate all of these ignorances? Scripture [Laughs]. And where is the scripture from? Devotees [Laughs]. So, through sravana and sadhu sanga, then we can come to pure bhakti and pure chanting. Then we get prema.
2.) Hare Krishna. Now, His Holiness explained about how to do offenseless chanting, how to know about the pure chanting. So, you tell, we should be aware of the don’ts, but what are the do’s we should follow? Can you please elaborate on that?
So, of course, knowledge consists of both things, what you shouldn’t do and what you should do [Laughs]. So, through knowledge, we get both aspects. So, the positive things we should do, of course, are different engagements in bhakti. These are explained in Nectar of Devotion. And we should perform these angas of bhakti with pure bhakti, with devotion.
Devotee 1: Without? We should practice this without?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: We should practice with devotion [Laughs]. So, the most important verse of Nectar of Devotion is that definition of pure bhakti. This is how we practice [Laughs]. So, in that definition, it defines uttama bhakti or pure bhakti as cultivation of a relationship with Krishna, with affection. And even there, then he also gets the negative, without material desire, without desire for liberation [Laughs]. So, in this way, both things are presented, what you shouldn’t do and what you should do [Laughs]. And the Bhagavatam gives us examples of what to do and what the result is. So, Bhagavatam presents the ideal bhakti or prema. And how is that shown? In the great devotees [Laughs]. So, we have descriptions of all the devotees in Vrindavan. So, these are the positive examples that we should try to attain through raganuga bhakti [Laughs]. But we have other examples, like we have Devahuti or we have Kuntidevi, then their prayers or whatever. We have example of Narada Muni, many other examples, Prahlada etc., in the Bhagavatam, which are given as nice examples of positive bhakti.
Devotee 1: What is negative bhakti?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: All negative things which I mean, things you shouldn’t do.
Devotee 1: Okay.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: In the Nectar of Devotion, among the 64 angas of bhakti, which are mainly positive, there are 10 negatives [Laughs]. So one of that is don’t get too many disciples. Don’t study too many scriptures [Laughs]. Don’t disrespect the devatas [Laughs]. And don’t tolerate offenses against devotees [Laughs], so these are some of the don’ts [Laughs]. Don’t disturb other living entities [Laughs]. Don’t be overcome with lamentation [Laughs]. Don’t commit aparadhas [Laughs].
Devotee 2: Maharaj, how can we become introspective because it’s very easy to see the fault in other people. How we can see the fault in ourself and therefore correct ourself in devotional service so we can understand we are going the right direction.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Ultimately, this is included in the definition of bhakti. So the essential definition is we’re cultivating a loving relationship with Krishna, which is not anything external, it’s internal. And it should be free of material desires. Which implies that when we cultivate bhakti and our relationship with Krishna, we are also aware that it has to be devoid of self-interest, pride, all these different things, which are aspects of material desire. In other words, abhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ [Laughs] has to be devoid of all other desires. So, that’s the main definition of bhakti. Then we have a sub-definition of sadhana bhakti. So that definition is, we engage the mind and senses, which is like external [Laughs], meaning external. So many devotees will emphasize the external and forget about the first definition [Laughs]. But the first definition is the most important one [Laughs]. We cannot separate that. Of course, to help the devotee, then we do have sadhu sangha. So if we’re unaware of our anarthas, then other devotees can also help us understand them. If our anarthas are too strong, then of course, we don’t listen to anybody [Laughs]. And that is why Bhagavatam says, qualification for bhakti, for beginning bhakti, is not too much material attachment. If we have too much material attachment, that means too many anarthas, and then it’s difficult to even progress in bhakti.
3.) How to associate with misra bhaktas, those devotees who are doing misra bhakti?
Misra bhakti or contaminated bhakti [Laughs]? So when we talk about sadhu sangha, association of devotees, we’re talking about devotees practicing pure bhakti. Devotees practicing mixed bhakti, impure bhakti, etc., they are called kanishthas. So we do not associate with them as equals. All we can do is give them instructions so then they can raise up to the proper level.
Devotee: We should not have too much material desires, but then which material desires are okay to have?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: You can have any material desire, but not too much.
Devotee: Not too much means what? Something is okay?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: If it creates anarthas and they are difficult to remove, or you don’t want to remove the anarthas. That’s too much attachment. We have the last offense to the holy name. After understanding everything, you don’t want to give up material desires [Laughs]. At least you should desire to give them up. Even if you can’t, you desire to give them up. If you don’t even desire to give them up, you’ll never give them up [Laughs].
4.) In vaidhi bhakti we have several rules and need to be followed right, in temple or everywhere. How to balance them? How much rules should we follow?
Well, we have standard rules that everybody in ISKCON follow. So those are the rules we follow.
Devotee 1: Raganuga bhakti also we have rules? Raganuga bhakti also we have these all rules right, worship rules and everything. And sometimes devotees say like if you follow rules and all, then devotees say like, oh you should do raganuga bhakti, all these rules are okay if you break some rules.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, as I mentioned raganuga also follows scripture. So raganuga bhakti means, okay, we don’t have to follow rules, so we don’t have to follow any regulative principles. We don’t have to chant Hare Krishna whatever. That doesn’t mean that [Laughs]. It means that ultimately through raganuga, we naturally follow everything, so we don’t worry about that and we’re going higher [Laughs]. And then rather than chant 16 rounds, then we are spontaneously chanting much more rounds [Laughs]. So actually it is said in Nectar of Devotion that, externally we follow the example of great devotees like Rupa Goswami [Laughs]. So, however he acted, however he served, that’s a good example to follow externally.
Devotee 2: Maharaj, as you said philosophical idea about Rasa-lila. So as per my knowledge, I have heard this philosophical word while describing about the universe or different lokas or Vishnu tattva but what are those philosophical ideas in Rasa-lila? Can you please share some of them [Not clear]?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: The most important point is that we read Rasa-lila and then we will take Krishna and the Gopis as material living entities. And so when we read about the activities of Radha and Krishna or Radha and Krishna and the Gopis, then we will think, oh it’s very nice, we can do all of these activities in the same way [Laughs]. And we even have groups that do that. They dress up like Radha and Krishna and so many other things and they have lilas [Laughs]. So our philosophical understanding is that, this level of Radha Krishna is the highest activity in the spiritual world. It has got nothing to do with material desires. So we cannot bring those down to a material level. Nor can we, if we are still influenced by material energy, think that we are on that level, spiritual.
Okay. Hare Krishna!
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!