Srimad Bhagavatam – 2.4.6 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | June 22, 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2 Chapter 4 Verse 6.
SB 2.4.6
bhūya eva vivitsāmi
bhagavān ātma-māyayā
yathedaṁ sṛjate viśvaṁ
durvibhāvyam adhīśvaraiḥ
Synonyms
bhūyaḥ — again; eva — also; vivitsāmi — I wish to learn; bhagavān — the Personality of Godhead; ātma — personal; māyayā — by the energies; yathā — as; idam — this phenomenal world; sṛjate — does create; viśvam — universe; durvibhāvyam — inconceivable; adhīśvaraiḥ — by the great demigods.
Translation
I beg to know from you how the Personality of Godhead, by His personal energies, creates these phenomenal universes as they are, which are inconceivable even to the great demigods.
Purport
In every inquisitive mind the important question of the creation of the phenomenal world arises, and therefore for a personality like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, who was to know all the activities of the Lord from his spiritual master, such an inquiry is not uncommon. For every unknown thing, we have to learn and inquire from a learned personality. The question of creation is also one of such inquiries to be made to the right person. The spiritual master, therefore, must be one who is sarva-jña, as stated herein before in connection with Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Thus all inquiries on God which are unknown to the disciple may be made from the qualified spiritual master, and here the practical example is set by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. It was, however, already known to Mahārāja Parīkṣit that everything we see is born out of the energy of the Lord, as we have all learned in the very beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (janmādy asya yataḥ). So Mahārāja Parīkṣit wanted to know the process of creation. The origin of creation was known to him; otherwise he would not have inquired how the Personality of Godhead, by His different energies, creates this phenomenal world. The common man also knows that the creation is made by some creator and is not created automatically. We have no experience in the practical world that a thing is created automatically. Foolish people say that the creative energy is independent and acts automatically, as electrical energy works. But the intelligent man knows that even the electrical energy is generated by an expert engineer in the localized powerhouse, and thus the energy is distributed everywhere under the resident engineer’s supervision. The Lord’s supervision in connection with creation is mentioned even in the Bhagavad-gītā (9.10), and it is clearly said there that material energy is a manifestation of one of many such energies of the Supreme (parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate). An inexperienced boy may be struck with wonder by seeing the impersonal actions of electronics or many other wonderful things conducted by electrical energy, but an experienced man knows that behind the action is a living man who creates such energy. Similarly the so-called scholars and philosophers of the world may, by mental speculation, present so many utopian theories about the impersonal creation of the universe, but an intelligent devotee of the Lord, by studying the Bhagavad-gītā, can know that behind the creation is the hand of the Supreme Lord, just as in the generating electrical powerhouse there is the resident engineer. The research scholar finds out the cause and the effect of everything, but research scholars as great as Brahmā, Śiva, Indra and many other demigods are sometimes bewildered by seeing the wonderful creative energy of the Lord, so what to speak of the tiny mundane scholars dealing in petty things. As there are differences in the living conditions of different planets of the universe, and as one planet is superior to others, the brains of the living entities in those respective planets are also of different categorical values. As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, one can compare the long duration of life of the inhabitants of Brahmā’s planet, which is inconceivable to the inhabitants of this planet earth, to the categorical value of the brain of Brahmājī, also inconceivable to any great scientist of this planet. And with such high brain power, even Brahmājī has described in his great saṁhitā (Brahma-saṁhitā 5.1) as follows:
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
“There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavān, but Kṛṣṇa is the supreme because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme Person, and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the primeval Lord Govinda and the cause of all causes.”
Brahmājī admits Lord Kṛṣṇa to be the supreme cause of all causes. But persons with tiny brains within this petty planet earth think of the Lord as one of them. Thus when the Lord says in the Bhagavad-gītā that He (Lord Kṛṣṇa) is all in all, the speculative philosophers and the mundane wranglers deride Him, and the Lord regretfully says:
avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā
mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam
paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto
mama bhūta-maheśvaram
“Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.” (Bg. 9.11) Brahmā and Śiva (and what to speak of other demigods) are bhūtas, or powerful created demigods who manage universal affairs, much like ministers appointed by a king. The ministers may be īśvaras, or controllers, but the Supreme Lord is maheśvara, or the creator of the controllers. Persons with a poor fund of knowledge do not know this, and therefore they have the audacity to deride Him because He comes before us by His causeless mercy occasionally as a human being. The Lord is not like a human being. He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, or the Absolute Personality of Godhead, and there is no difference between His body and His soul. He is both the power and the powerful.
Mahārāja Parīkṣit did not ask his spiritual master, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, to narrate Lord Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes in Vṛndāvana; he wanted to hear first about the creation of the Lord. Śukadeva Gosvāmī did not say that the King should hear about the direct transcendental pastimes of the Lord. The time was very short, and naturally Śukadeva Gosvāmī could have gone directly to the Tenth Canto to make a shortcut of the whole thing, as generally done by the professional reciters. But neither the King nor the great speaker of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam jumped up like the organizers of Bhāgavatam; both of them proceeded systematically, so that both future readers and hearers might take lessons from the example of the procedure of reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Those who are under the control of the external energy of the Lord, or in other words those who are in the material world, must first of all know how the external energy of the Lord is working under the direction of the Supreme Personality, and afterwards one may try to enter into the activities of His internal energy. The mundaners are mostly worshipers of Durgā-devī, the external energy of Kṛṣṇa, but they do not know that Durgā-devī is but the shadow energy of the Lord. Behind her astonishing display of material workings is the direction of the Lord, as confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā (9.10). The Brahma-saṁhitā affirms that Durgā-śakti is working by the direction of Govinda, and without His sanction the powerful Durgā-śakti cannot move even a blade of grass. Therefore the neophyte devotee, instead of jumping at once to the platform of transcendental pastimes presented by the internal energy of the Lord, may know how great the Supreme Lord is by inquiring about the process of His creative energy. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also, descriptions of the creative energy and the Lord’s hand in it are explained, and the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta has warned the neophyte devotees to be seriously on guard against the pitfall of neglecting knowledge about Kṛṣṇa in regard to how great He is. Only when one knows Lord Kṛṣṇa’s greatness can one firmly put one’s unflinching faith in Him; otherwise, like the common man, even the great leaders of men will mistake Lord Kṛṣṇa for one of the many demigods, or a historical personality, or a myth only. The transcendental pastimes of the Lord in Vṛndāvana, or even at Dvārakā, are relishable for persons who have already qualified themselves in advanced spiritual techniques, and the common man may be able to attain to such a plane by the gradual process of service and inquiries, as we shall see in the behavior of Mahārāja Parīkṣit.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So in this verse, Parīkṣhit Mahārāja is asking about how the Supreme Lord creates the material world. And he mentions also this, even the devatas have difficulty understanding how this takes place. So not only is the spiritual world difficult to understand, even the material world is difficult to understand. So, of course, the material world is somewhat easier to understand than the spiritual world because we’re familiar with it. But still, both are very difficult to understand.
So human beings who are less inquisitive do not inquire too much about this material world. So they just utilize it for their own purposes. But then the more inquisitive person begins to ask questions. How does the material world work? and why does it work like this, and is somebody controlling how it works? A lot of these questions begin to be asked because the human being sees that he is very temporary. We live and we die, and then what happens after we die? So this is a question which even primitive human beings begin to ask. We don’t see this question asked among animals, but we see it among human beings. And thus we see that there are always death rituals among human beings.
So the human being inquires, why do we die? What happens when we die? Why is the world changing like this? So then they investigate in many ways. And we see all different societies have stories of how the world is created and why it’s acting like it does. And by and large they also conclude there is some other person controlling everything. Of course, they may say there are many persons controlling so that we have worship of many devatas. And then we have those who conclude, no, not many, ultimately there is one supreme person controlling. And then we worship that person in order to get his mercy. So this is a common feature in human civilizations.
Then we get a separate inquiry taking place. So this is a more practical question. We just want to know how things in this material world work and then we develop sorts of mechanical things and we develop science based on that. So, we see different societies developing tools and machines eventually. And then with each invention that leads to other inventions. Many societies in ancient times didn’t have the wheel. How did they transport things? They dragged it on the ground [Laughs]. Then at a certain time somebody seemed to discover the wheel and other people took that up and then that started another type of invention thing with making chariots and carts and things and we get development based on that [Laughs].
So we see the development of different sciences like mathematics very early in civilizations also based on just looking up the world and kind of figure things out [Laughs]. And then we see them using numbers. And we see in the Vedas they have huge numbers. And with these huge numbers they are calculating huge quantities of years like Brahma’s lifetime etc [Laughs]. So there are many ways in which we can look at this world. We can go in the path of, we call, religion and philosophy or we can go in the path of science. They are not necessarily contradictory. Of course, in the modern world they seem to be contradictory. So if you believe in science you don’t believe in God. That’s kind of natural for people. However, in ancient India that was not so. So we have great scientists and mathematicians, they were also Brahmanas studying the Vedas. So in any case the human being keeps asking all sorts of questions and he wants answers.
Some people are attracted to science because we ask questions and we can generally get some practical answer and practical use of that knowledge. But that does not mean we should reject the inquiry about Supreme Lord. Because the purpose of that inquiry is quite different. The purpose of science is to give us some temporary benefits, material benefits. And spiritual inquiry is to try to get some satisfaction which is eternal. It’s trying to solve the problem of why we are alive. What is death? Why do we have to die? And that’s not a question that science addresses at all. So the two things, the two different types of knowledge can co-exist together without any conflict. However, if we follow the Vedic tradition, if we are to follow the idea of spiritual life, then we accept scripture as the source of knowledge. Scientists will not accept scriptures as the source of his knowledge. But their knowledge has a completely different purpose. So if you are accepting scripture for spiritual knowledge, there should be no objection. So, it is by getting this scriptural knowledge that we get conclusive answers about birth and death and who is God, etc.
So, we ask questions about God in relation to our present condition. So, we are living and we have a body and we are living and we will die. So, why does God do this, gives me this particular body? And then a more advanced question, why does the Lord create this whole material world with all these bodies? And then the question, how does he create all this? So the scriptures give an answer to that. So, it is a very fundamental question and very basic answer is given by scripture. Once we get some understanding of how the Lord is powerful and inconceivable and how he creates this material world, then we can begin to discuss other topics about the Lord. So, once we establish this position of His great powers, then we can ask questions about what is His form and what does He do besides create the material world. So, that is what Srila Prabhupada is explaining in this purport. First, we have to have a basic understanding of who is God and His number one position in relation to at least material world. And in that knowledge, then our conclusion is, the Lord is not matter at all. He is a spiritual being and He is completely independent of matter and not contaminated by it at all. And He creates the material world not out of whimsy but with a certain purpose and out of His mercy. And that Lord is one. After we get the acceptance of that knowledge, then we can go on to further knowledge. And if we don’t establish the position of Supreme Lord first and we go to the other topics, we will all think those things are material things.
So as he quotes from Bhagavad Gita, the foolish people think that I am simply a human body doing human activities. So when they hear the activities of Krishna in the 10th canto where he is herding cows, then they will think this is material. So, therefore we do have to establish the position of the Supreme Lord first. And the convenient way of doing this is by showing His power in relation to this material world. And thus, Parikshit Maharaj and Sukadeva Goswami, for 9 cantos, are discussing the material world. There are different topics in Bhagavatam, like Sarga, Visarga, Sthana, Uti, Poshana, Manvantara etc, Ishanukatha, etc., and destruction. All of this got to do with matter [Laughs]. However, it is matter but how the Lord controls this, that is what is important.
So, the material world is all planned out by the Supreme Lord and through Brahma, according to His plan, everything is created and maintained according to His will. And then according to His will it is all destroyed. And through this, the Lord remains eternal and perfect. So, that is established through many of these cantos. And then in the 10th canto, we have a description of Krishna’s pastimes. And so, when we read those pastimes, we understand that this is not the activities of a normal material person. This is the Supreme Lord who is also manifesting all the material worlds.
So, Parikshit Maharaj wants to know all about the topics of the Supreme Lord. So, he begins by asking questions like that. How does the Lord create the material world? It is a topic about the Lord. Of course, it is also a topic about matter. But it is also interesting for Parikshit Maharaj, because it is also a glorification of the Supreme Lord.
Hare Krishna.
Q & A :
1.) Maharaj, in the purport Srila Prabhupada has said that one should gradually hear about Supreme Lord first creation and other things then go to 10th Canto and also Prabhupada was saying that this Parikshit Maharaj is setting example like he started first hearing about creation, and then Krishna lila something like, Vishwanath was saying. So, my question is that, Parikshit Maharaj is a pure devotee, by birth, he is a devotee. For him, what is the necessity of knowing creation and other things? Immediately, he can go to hear about the pastimes of Krishna, which can increase our intense devotion. And also, Maharaj says, as he is a devotee, he is not thinking about others. If I ask this question, in the future, people might get benefit by hearing this?
Well, it is similar to Arjuna asking questions in Bhagavad Gita. He also knows everything, but still he is asking about soul and body and everything else [Laughs]. Of course, it is also said that he was put under ignorance so that he didn’t want to fight etc. specifically by the Lord and then to express his bewilderment so that topics could be discussed. So, we can say that Parikshit more or less is taking the role of someone who doesn’t know. Therefore, he has to ask, what am I supposed to do when I am dying? Ultimately, in one sense, he knows already [Laughs].
2.) In the purport Srila Prabhupada is saying that different scientists or philosophers, they are also trying to know the creation of the Supreme Lord, which is the energy of the Supreme Lord. But, by trying to know through the material senses, it is quite impossible for them to reach that conclusion. But, due to their egoistic idea, they never take the help of scriptures like Srimad Bhagavatam or Vedas. So, how is it possible for them? Is it really, because Prabhupada in one of the purport has said that once science will advance, they will try to count even the atoms and molecules also. But, what is the benefit of doing that? Because, unless and until they know the Supreme Lord, they try to know the creation through the scriptures like Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavatam or Vedas?
So, the basic principle of modern science is to base your conclusions on observation. And you can combine that with inference or logic or whatever, and that sum total is called knowledge. And everything else other than that is not knowledge. And so, because scripture has not been subjected to observation or whatever, therefore it is rejected as knowledge. However, the problem in science is that ultimately, they are being forced to admit that that type of knowledge based on your observation may not be everything. They assume that this matter is matter and that’s it. But, if matter is controlled by Supreme Lord in consciousness, then how you can know matter completely? You cannot. So, therefore you get stuck. And that’s what modern science is stuck with. So, they found that you cannot separate matter from consciousness. So, that is a problem [Laughs]. They have not discovered a method of investigating and observing consciousness, so that’s a problem there [Laughs]. So, in that sense, science is stuck [Laughs].
3.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. People nowadays Maharaj, they are following this concept called law of attraction, like visualization. People are following it like they have their conception is they have higher power, but universe is giving it for them. They don’t have any concept of God. Their thinking of higher power is universe. How true is this process? Is it bona fide? Is it mentioned in any scriptures?
So, in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, whatever you think of, you attain. Similar concept. So, if you worship devatas, absorb yourself in devatas, you go to devatas, if you think of ghosts, you go to ghosts, etc. Of course, we do see that Krishna also says that you have to control your thoughts, you have to control your mind, you have to control your senses. And whatever your mind is thinking, your senses are going in that direction. And if you learn to control your mind, then you can actually attain something based on that.
However, there also is a limit because we do have karma. So, you can think of anything you want, you don’t necessarily get it, unless your karma also permits it. But, if karma permits, but you don’t even think of it, then you still don’t get it. So, in the material world, we can say this operates and it allows people to, let’s say, fulfill their ultimate limit of their karmas [Laughs]. And the corresponding rule is that, or the observation is that most people are not even utilizing the potential of their karma [Laughs].
4.) Generally, we see few devotees bring deities and worship at home without installing them. So, when we say that technically they are not deities, they get disappointed. So, how to deal this case, Maharaj?
So, they are not deities as accepted by Pancharatra. And if they want to be accepted by Pancharatra, then they should install the deities. Of course, we know that ultimately the Yuga Dharma is chanting the Holy Name. And the worship of Kali Yuga is chanting the Holy Name. So, that’s the ideal and simplest way in which we can worship Krishna. And we can do other things and have deities, etc. But that’s secondary to chanting the Holy Name.
5.) Maharaj, to what extent a devotee should tolerate? What is the maximum limit a devotee should tolerate in any circumstance, material or spiritual?
It depends on the problem. Anyway, ultimately, we have to tolerate everything because we cannot avoid many things. So, what to do? The main point is, we should not be disturbed. Of course, instruction of Krishna in the second chapter is, summer and winter, everything passing, whatever, and we should not lament, we should tolerate. In terms of Bhakti Yoga, even in the preliminary rules of Bhakti among the 64 angas, one of them is, don’t be overcome by lamentation.
6.) Maharaj, I really appreciate today’s class, how you explained that the role of religion and science is there, and how science is limited, and how they should not object to the religiosity or the spiritual aspect. Maharaj, Prabhupada also laid quite an emphasis on devotees, who are scientists to establish some kind of a connection with spirituality and science. So, but we see there is not much emphasis in individual temples like Iskcon Chennai. I mean, we don’t really have much emphasis to promote or to talk about it. Recently, I was going through an article, it was not by a devotee, but by Jewish scientists. So, they were talking about that how the science says that from chaos came order. And then they were saying that this is against the second law of thermodynamics, where it says the entropy only increases, which means it comes from low entropic state to a higher entropic state. So, the point they were making is that order was there in the beginning, which indicates an intelligent source. So, what is your opinion, Maharaj? How much should we consider that? Is that an important aspect for outreach? But we see many people don’t even understand many things in science. They just have a very broad laymanish understanding of science, Maharaj. Hare Krishna.
So, preaching to scientists is a very specialized field. You could also preach to mathematicians or to archaeologists or to sociologists or whatever, all very specialized fields. And of course, even science has different levels. So, we have like popular scientists represented in magazines. Then we have very elevated scientists where Nobel Prize winners and [Laughs] people like that, Phds are discussing in private all sorts of physical theories. So, you can preach to scientists on different levels even and it’d be quite different. But then the higher you go, the more selective it is and the less people involved [Laughs]. So, of course, one of the reasons why Prabhupada wanted this is to convince scientists ultimately that they should accept that matter is not separate from consciousness, you cannot separate the two things. And that is one step towards making the scientists into theists in one sense [Laughs]. One step. It’s not that complete, one step [Laughs].But it’s also, as I said, very specialized.
7.) So, any implication, Maharaj? I mean, that I understand, Maharaj. But for the general population coming to the temple, so should that also become one of our focus? Because laymen, they have some appreciation for science.
And then you have to preach on that level. You can’t preach on the higher level of science. So, you have to preach on a very general level [Laughs]. So, that’s okay, but that won’t be accepted by people on the higher level [Laughs]. You have to be very specialized to preach to those people.
8.) Actually, Maharaj, the last Discover Yourself program that we have done previously as well, in the first, second session when we talk about body and soul, we discussed near-death experiences and past life. And from there we take out that there are questions which science is not able to answer. And because of the way it draws knowledge or it acquires knowledge. So, that actually cut a lot of ice with people. They were all laymen, but it cut a lot of ice with them. And then they actually moved on and they accepted the, okay, there is another thing that we should accept to understand.
So, that’s a level we can speak on to normal people, but people who are into pure science won’t accept that. Because it’s all observation of our experiences only. It’s not actually something you can quantify in terms of your experiments [Laughs]. But it does raise the question of what is the limit of science and its ability to observe and how we observe, etc. And how much we can take testimony of near-death experience or whatever like that as a fact. So, then we’re in a kind of grey zone [Laughs] because it’s testimony, but then we get so much testimony that maybe it is factual. But it’s experience rather than observation. So, that’s why, you know, and not external observation. But then that also questions the fact that is science itself only objective observation? And maybe it isn’t [Laughs]. Maybe it’s also a little subjective when we’re looking at these things in a certain way, with microscope or whatever. So, the whole idea of how we observe and what are, because we have to be conscious to examine things. So, that consciousness also somehow gets filtered, whatever. So, the whole idea of science gets challenged.
Devotee : Actually, Maharaj, yes, even from the testimonies which are very subjective, actually we, as devotees also, we have to deal with it very carefully. Because if you look at specific cases of near-death experiences, many of them say it was a very wonderful experience. And they go on to describe light, this, that, very peaceful, which is very, which I would say is contrary to what we would expect at death or where the person would actually go. So, usually most people with this sinful background, that’s the kind of experience they should not be having. So, I mean, as devotees also, we should be very careful what part to take and how much to talk about it.
9.) Hare Krishna Maharaj, this question is with reference to Saturday’s class where we were reading about Madhavendra Puri and how he was telling, that give up ritualistic activities, Varanashramic duties, etc. So, Maharaj, my question is that, Srila Prabhupada, at one point, he made a statement that half of my work is still incomplete and that is to establish the Varanashram. So, when Prabhupada talks about Varanashram, what would he mean? Because he would not, I mean, he would know what is there in NOD and what Madhavendra Puri says, and yet Prabhupada is talking about establishing Varanashram. So, what would he mean by that, Maharaj?
So, there are strengths of statements. What Prabhupada said in a lecture, for instance, what he said is a comment to somebody, and even then, is it recorded or not? If somebody said that he said, it would make it weaker. So, if he said it and it is recorded, it would have more strength. If he said it in a lecture then it would have more strength. If actually it is written down by Prabhupada, it would have even more strength. But even the written word, may be of different strength, because we have letters written to people, thats may be of less strength. And if it is written in a book, then it would have great strength. So that one statement actually is in the weakest category, because it was somebody said, and it wasn’t recorded anywhere. Of course, then we can take that in context and Prabhupada talks about Varnashram in different places. Some places like Bhagavatam the whole sections of Kapila dev’s teachings or teachings to Uddhava and Prahlad’s teachings but that doesn’t necessarily mean, that’s what we do, and actually gets rejected by Bhagavatam itself [Laughs]. So it gives all the rules for how the Brahmana Grihastha should live by going to the market, after the grains being swept up, and he takes the little particles, and he takes that home, and then he eats that with his children and his wife. So Prabhupada never says, we do that [Laughs].
So all those rules for the different varnas, and different ashrams are there, but how much of that Prabhupada say we should follow? In general, we don’t follow any of that [Laughs]. And of course, in Bhagavatam itself, there are so many statements that if you take to Bhakti, then you are not obligated to do svadharma at all. So, though Bhagavatam itself, and Prabhupada also translating and commenting, recommends Varanashram in one sense, at the same time, Bhagavatam itself, and Prabhupada also reject it [Laughs].
So, apart from the direct scriptural statements, and Prabhupada’s commentaries, and translations, etc., on Varnashram, then we’ll have Prabhupada’s statements, in books itself, which will be either, it’s very nice, or we don’t need it, and we get two [Laughs]. So, sometimes in the books, and sometimes in his letters also, then he says, oh yes, very good, we should follow, and in other letters, in other places in books, no, not necessary [Laughs]. So, I don’t know, if anyone is seriously thinking, all the quotes that Prabhupada gives on Varanashram, positive and negative, then gives a numerical value, how much is plus, how much is not plus [Laughs], and probably you end up with half-half.
And, of course, one place also, I think in third canto or second canto, he says, and then, yes, Varanashram, very good, and then the way we practice Varanashram, is by chanting Hare Krishna [Laughs]. So, when Prabhupada says, okay, half my work is undone, then we should establish Varanashram, then, what does that mean? So, what does it mean, and one thing is, is it for devotees, or is it for general public? And that’s quite different. And you have to decide, because it’s quite different how you want to apply it. And you can’t say both, you can’t say one or the other. So, but there’s no answer to that. What did Prabhupada mean by that statement? And is it a final statement? So, it’s unanswered. So, did he really want it or not want it? And is it for devotees or not devotees? So, then, in that case, what do we do [Laughs]? So, it’s questionable. And then, of course, if it’s for devotees, what aspect of Varanashram is he talking about that you need? Because, obviously, there’s so many contradictory statements that, you know, we’re practicing Bhakti, we can give up svadharma, which means your Varanashram duties. So, then, which ones do we follow? And, of course, the statement here, forget about my sandhya vandana, all these rituals, obviously, he’s not talking about those, and most of our Acharyas, like Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta, also say, Ok, what’s the use of sandhya vandana and all this sort of stuff. So, therefore, what does it mean to follow?
And, of course, some devotees say, Ok, Prabhupada wants to establish us as Brahmanas. But then, what does that mean? To follow Sandhya vandana? But then it’s completely contradicted by this. So, what aspect of Brahmanism does he want? Read the Vedas? But never Prabhupada recommended that. So, instead of reading the Vedas, we read Bhagavatam. But is that a brahminical activity? It’s for everybody [Laughs]. So, what does the Varnas mean in ISKCON? Also questionable. And so, of course…[Laughs] So, what does it all mean, this whole idea of Varnashram, being a brahmana and all this? Questionable.
10.) Also, Maharaj, the next question would be that how would the varna be assigned?
Oh, that’s the whole question also [Laughs]. In one sense, it’s all temporary. They tried to do that in Hungary because they have a farm there and they’re seriously trying to follow that instruction. And they tried various methods of determining varna and I think three different ways over many years. And they say it all failed. It didn’t work. Whatever they did, it didn’t work. Of course, ashrama is not difficult. We can set up a simple type of ashrama, Varnashram, in that sense. But the Varnas is very difficult to categorize people into.
11.) Also, Maharaj, if the Varna is assigned, like you’re giving the example of Hungary, so if somebody is assigned, let’s say, a Shudra or a Vaishya, so he stays there for this lifetime and then assume that next lifetime he’ll be born in a devotee Varnashramic system and he’ll progress there.
Well, I don’t think we want that type of system also and for ISKCON I don’t think Prabhupada ever envisioned that either. It doesn’t mean that either. That’s why the whole concept is what did he mean by that? Is it for devotees or not devotees? If it’s not for devotees, it’s much simpler. But then again, nobody’s probably going to follow anyway. Who wants to follow that system in the society? You can get them to chant Hare Krishna, you may get them to stop eating meat, but to follow a particular varna according to that system, nobody is going to follow in the modern day. It’s more difficult than anything else. So it is easier just to tell everybody to chant the Holy Name [Laughs].
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!