Srimad Bhagavatam 10.87.15 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Japan | 5 May 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 87 Verse 15.
ŚB 10.87.15
bṛhad upalabdham etad avayanty avaśeṣatayā
yata udayāstam-ayau vikṛter mṛdi vāvikṛtāt
ata ṛṣayo dadhus tvayi mano-vacanācaritaṁ
katham ayathā bhavanti bhuvi datta-padāni nṛṇām
Synonyms
bṛhat — as the Supreme; upalabdham — perceived; etat — this (world); avayanti — they consider; avaśeṣatayā — in terms of its being the all-pervading foundation of existence; yataḥ — since; udaya — the generation; astam-ayau — and dissolution; vikṛteḥ — of a transformation; mṛdi — of clay; vā — as if; avikṛtāt — (the Supreme itself) not being subject to transformation; ataḥ — therefore; ṛṣayaḥ — the sages (who compiled the Vedic mantras); dadhuḥ — placed; tvayi — in You; manaḥ — their minds; vacana — words; ācaritam — and actions; katham — how; ayathā — not as they are; bhavanti — become; bhuvi — upon the ground; datta — placed; padāni — the steps; nṛṇām — of men.
Translation
This perceivable world is identified with the Supreme because the Supreme Brahman is the ultimate foundation of all existence, remaining unchanged as all created things are generated from it and at last dissolved into it, just as clay remains unchanged by the products made from it and again merged with it. Thus it is toward You alone that the Vedic sages direct all their thoughts, words and acts. After all, how can the footsteps of men fail to touch the earth on which they live?
Purport
There may be some doubt as to whether the Vedic mantras are unanimous when identifying the Supreme Personality of Godhead. After all, some mantras state, indro yāto ’vasitasya rājā: “Indra is the King of all moving and nonmoving beings” (Ṛg Veda 1.32.15), while others say, agnir mūrdhā divaḥ: “Agni is the chief of the heavens,” and yet other mantras point to different deities as the Absolute. It would seem, then, that the Vedas present a polytheistic world view.
Answering this doubt, the Vedas themselves explain in this verse that there can be only one source of universal creation, called Brahman or Bṛhat, “the greatest,” which is the singular truth underlying and pervading all existence. No finite deity like Indra or Agni can fulfill this unique role, nor would the śrutis be so ignorant as to propose such an idea. As indicated here by the word tvayi, Lord Viṣṇu alone is the Absolute Truth. Indra and other demigods may be glorified in various ways, but they possess only those powers Lord Śrī Viṣṇu has granted them.
The Vedic sages understand that this entire world — including Indra, Agni, and everything else perceivable by the eyes, ears and other senses — is identical with the one Supreme Truth, the Personality of Godhead, who is called Bṛhat, “the greatest,” because He is avaśeṣa, “the ultimate substance that remains.” From the Lord everything expands at creation, and into Him everything dissolves at annihilation. He exists before and after the material manifestation as the constant basis, known to philosophers as the “ingredient cause,” upādāna. Despite the fact that countless manifestations emanate from Him, the Supreme Lord exists eternally unchanged — an idea the śrutis specifically emphasize here with the word avikṛtāt.
The words mṛdi vā (“as in the case of clay”) allude to a famous analogy spoken by Udālaka to his son Śvetaketu in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad (6.4.1): vācārambhanaṁ vikāro nāmadheyaṁ mṛttikety eva satyam. “The objects of the material world exist merely as names, transformations defined by language, whereas the ingredient cause, like the clay from which pots are made, is the actual reality.” A mass of clay is the ingredient cause of various pots, statues and so on, but the clay itself remains in its essence unchanged. Eventually, the pots and other objects will be destroyed and return to the clay from which they came. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the total ingredient cause, yet He remains eternally untouched by transformation. This is the purport of the statement sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: “Everything is Brahman.” (Chāndogya Upaniṣad 3.14.1) Wondering at this mystery, the great devotee Gajendra prayed,
namo namas te ’khila-kāraṇāya
niṣkāraṇāyādbhuta-kāraṇāya
“Obeisances again and again to You, the source of all creation. You are the inconceivable cause of all causes, and of You there is no other cause.” (Bhāg. 8.3.15)
Prakṛti, material nature, is often considered the ingredient cause of creation, in Western science as well as in the Vedas. This does not contradict the higher fact of the Supreme Lord’s being the final cause, since prakṛti is His energy, and is herself subject to change. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.24.19), Lord Kṛṣṇa says:
prakṛtir yasyopādānam
ādhāraḥ puruṣaḥ paraḥ
sato ’bhivyañjakaḥ kālo
brahma tat tritayaṁ tv aham
“The material universe is real, having prakṛti as its original ingredient and final state. Lord Mahā-Viṣṇu is the resting place of nature, which becomes manifest by the power of time. Thus nature, the almighty Viṣṇu and time are not different from Me, the Supreme Absolute Truth.” Prakṛti, however, undergoes transformation, while her Lord, the supreme puruṣa, does not. Prakṛti is the Personality of Godhead’s external energy, but He has another energy — His internal energy — which is svarūpa-bhūtā, nondifferent from His very essence. The Lord’s internal energy, like Himself, is never subject to material change.
Therefore the mantras of the Vedas, along with the ṛṣis who have received these mantras in meditation and transmitted them for the benefit of mankind, direct their attention primarily toward the Personality of Godhead. The Vedic sages direct the activities of their mind and words — that is to say, the inner as well as the literal meaning (abhidhā-vṛtti) of their utterances — first of all toward Him, and only secondarily toward separated transformations of prakṛti, such as Indra and other demigods.
Just as a man’s footsteps, whether placed on mud, stone or bricks, cannot fail to touch the surface of the earth, so whatever the Vedas discuss within the realm of material generation, they relate to the Absolute Truth. Mundane literature describes limited phenomena, disregarding the relation of its subjects to the total reality, but the Vedas always focus their perfect vision on the Supreme. As the Chāndogya Upaniṣad affirms in its statements mṛttikety eva satyam and sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, reality is understood properly when everything is seen to be dependent on Brahman, the Absolute, for its existence. Brahman alone is real, not because nothing we see in this world is real, but because Brahman is the absolute, final cause of everything. Thus the word satyam, as used in the phrase mṛttikety eva satyam, has been defined in another context as “ingredient cause” by no less an authority than Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself:
yad upādāya pūrvas tu
bhāvo vikurute param
ādir anto yadā yasya
tat satyam abhidhīyate
“A material object, itself composed of an essential ingredient, creates another material object through transformation. In this way one created object becomes the cause and basis of another created object. A particular thing may be called real in that it possesses the basic nature of another object that constitutes its cause and original state.” (Bhāg. 11.24.18)
Explaining the word Brahman, Śrīla Prabhupāda writes in Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead: “The word Brahman indicates the greatest of all and the maintainer of everything. The impersonalists are attracted by the greatness of the sky, but because of their poor fund of knowledge they are not attracted by the greatness of Kṛṣṇa. In our practical life, however, we are attracted by the greatness of a person and not by the greatness of a big mountain. Actually the term Brahman actually applies to Kṛṣṇa only; therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna admitted that Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Parabrahman, or the supreme rest of everything.
“Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman because of His unlimited knowledge, unlimited potencies, unlimited strength, unlimited influence, unlimited beauty and unlimited renunciation. Therefore the word Brahman can be applied to Kṛṣṇa only. Arjuna affirms that because the impersonal Brahman is the effulgence emanating as rays of Kṛṣṇa’s transcendental body, Kṛṣṇa is the Parabrahman. Everything is resting on Brahman, but Brahman itself is resting on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate Brahman, or Parabrahman. The material elements are accepted as inferior energy of Kṛṣṇa because by their interaction the cosmic manifestation takes place, rests on Kṛṣṇa, and after dissolution again enters into the body of Kṛṣṇa as His subtle energy. Kṛṣṇa is therefore the cause of both manifestation and dissolution.”
In summary, Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī prays:
druhiṇa-vahni-ravīndra-mukhāmarā
jagad idaṁ na bhavet pṛthag utthitam
bahu-mukhair api mantra-gaṇair ajas
tvam uru-mūrtir ato vinigadyase
“The demigods, headed by Śiva, Agni, Sūrya and Indra, and indeed all beings in the universe, do not come into existence independently of You. The mantras of the Vedas, though they speak from various viewpoints, all speak about You, the unborn Lord appearing in numerous forms.”
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
Hare Krishna. So the first word here is Brhad which literally means big. But this actually is the root word which expands into the word Brahman. So often our Acharyas will analyze the meaning of words. So the word Brahman comes from this word Brhad, which means big. However, so many big objects in this world, we have big universe etc, so it ultimately means the biggest. Ultimately, we say the Lord who is all-pervading. So the Lord is bigger than the biggest. He spreads everywhere. And another usage of that word Brhad is He who expands. Or we can say He who causes growth. Which means He is the final cause, or the cause of all causes. So that is the meaning of that word Brahman, that which is the greatest, or all-pervading, and which causes everything else.
So material universes are created and destroyed, so they’re not the greatest. The Lord always remains. So this is also a common description of the Lord. So in the Upanishads, also in the four verses, essential verses of the Bhagavatam, there it says the Lord exists before everything else and after everything else. So to help us understand, an example is given. Clay is transformed into pots and whatever. Finally the pots are destroyed, they go back to the clay again [Laughs]. So the earth remains, even though there are so many transformations. So the Lord remains, even though we have so many transformations in this material world.
Of course, we can also object to this example [Not clear] that how can the Lord be compared to clay [Laughs]? We can say everything goes back to prakrti. How we can compare the Lord to prakrti? Prakrti remains and then it transforms and everything goes back to prakrti. And prakrti is eternal. It is not destroyed by the Lord. So we can say well, prakrti is Brahman, because everything comes out of prakrti, everything goes back into prakrti [Laughs]. But we also know prakrti cannot transform into the universes unless Mahavishnu glances.
So ultimately, the Lord is the cause of prakrti resting and then expanding into a majority of universes and then getting destroyed [Laughs]. So the Supreme Lord remains previous and after [Laughs]. Of course, modern scientists will say no, forget about Mahavishnu glancing, world manifests, world is destroyed. World is manifested, world is destroyed. [Not clear] [Laughs]. Of course, we can also argue, well, earth is there and that becomes pots. But it doesn’t become pots on its own, we need someone there to grab the earth and make it into pots [Laughs]. So we have two kinds of causes, material cause and indirect cause. So the material cause is like the earth. And this is called Upadana. That’s mentioned somewhere here in the purport, I think [Laughs]. So, prakrti is Upadana, the material cause of the universe. But it requires the glance of Mahavishnu to transform into universes.
So this is the indirect cause, which we call nimitta. So that is like the potter [Laughs]. So these terms are often used to describe creation and cause. So it is not too complicated to say that, okay, the Lord is the nimitta cause. So Mahavishnu glances, this is the nimitta, and then prakrti is the material cause. So this is accepted by many philosophers. Modern scientists don’t have that nimitta like Lord glancing, the nimitta and the upadana are the same thing [Laughs], the prakrti [Laughs].
But then of course, the argument that Prabhupada gives is well, earth does not automatically manifest into clay pots or roof tiles or whatever, it requires an intelligent person. So how is it possible that material nature, without any intelligence, makes a flower, makes an animal [Laughs]? We never, if we look at a painting, nice painting, we never say, oh, the paint got together and made itself. Nobody, nobody made the painting [Laughs]. We don’t say that [Laughs]. But scientists will say, no, prakrti itself has its own intelligence by which it can do everything [Laughs]. Of course, there are some serious scientists who also find this is problematic. It doesn’t make sense [Laughs].
So then the scriptures, of course, give us an alternative version. They give us an alternative. So prakrti does not have intelligence. The intelligence comes from Supreme Lord. So the creation of the material world is not just some chance explosion. It is manifested by the Lord with a certain plan for the jivas. That was mentioned in the first reply that Sukadeva gave to Pariksit when he asked how is it possible that the Vedas can express something without form [Laughs].
So then Sukadeva replied, Supreme Lord creates material world with intelligence of the jivas, etc. So they can live in the material world and they can get liberation. So Lord has a plan [Laughs]. So the people who read the Vedic literature will conclude that Brahman is the supreme cause. However, then we get two opinions. Yes, Brahman is the cause, but does He have form and activities or no form and no activities [Laughs]? So then we have this argument. We have the Vaishnavas and we have the impersonalists. And they both have arguments and they both quote scriptures.
So scriptures say Brahman has no form, no qualities, no activity, no change. But Vaishnavas will see the same scriptures and the same scriptures also say the Lord has a form, the Lord creates the world, etc. So these verses here are showing, yes, the Lord has a form, the Lord creates the world. So the only question is, well, why does scripture say both things? And the answer is, the Lord is both. He has form, He has no form. He has no activity, He has activity [Laughs]. The Lord is impersonal Brahman, He is also Bhagavan. And He can be in opposite states because of acintya shakti. So it is according to the statements of the Vedas here [Laughs], they’re talking about the Lord creating the material world, etc. And they’re saying, it is not possible to say, okay, Brahman is there, but He doesn’t manifest anything, everything is illusion. That’s impossible to conclude.
So we can make a statement, the potter makes a pot from clay. Well, then we can’t say, well, the clay is illusory and the pot is illusion. If that were so, we would just make a statement and say, the potter doesn’t do anything [Laughs]. So if the scriptures say that Supreme Brahman creates the material world, creates living entities with bodies, etc. We can’t say it’s all illusion. So that is one of the main points that these verses are trying to explain.
Okay, Hare Krishna!
Q & A :
1.) Hare Krishna Bhanu Maharaj. Thank you very much. My question is simple. Why in the material world many people are attracted to impersonal, impersonalism? Can you explain?
So, of course, that’s true even among common religions, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, they’re basically impersonal [Laughs]. One reason is that, in talking about Supreme Lord, we don’t want to mix Him with material qualities and material forms. So that’s a good reason [Laughs]. And for that reason, the scriptures, the Upanishads also say, the Lord has no qualities, the Lord has no form, because they don’t want us to associate the Lord with material things [Laughs]. In other words, it’s a rejection of everything in the material world. And definitely that is true. The Lord has got nothing to do with material world. Of course, it’s also a conclusion we can reach if we come to sattva guna. If we come to sattva guna, we’re not much interested in the material world, so we tend to reject it. And then we feel there must be some other thing there besides material world, but then we start concluding it is impersonal. So people in the material world who reach sattva guna often become jnanis and yogis [Laughs]. So impersonal form of God is very popular among people in sattva guna [Laughs]. So it’s natural, the people that take to yoga process, then they will be inclined to impersonal [Laughs]. So therefore one reason for that popularity may be people have reached sattva guna. It’s often the conclusion of logical argument. By logic we conclude, okay, material was not created by matter itself, there must be something intelligent there. And that intelligent thing doesn’t have any material qualities, no material form [Laughs]. So that far we can go with logic. So Srila Prabhupada describes jnana as an ascending process, through our logic we conclude in impersonal Brahman. However, by this same logic we cannot say, okay, that supreme entity is blue or He plays a flute. Logically we can never conclude [Laughs] that [Laughs]. The only way we get that conclusion is if we accept scriptures [Laughs]. So some people don’t want to do that, so they accept impersonalism, but not personal.
Devotee: Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
2.) Hare Krishna Maharaj. As it is mentioned here, prakriti is the personality of Godhead’s external energy, but He has another energy, this internal energy which is swarupa bhuta. So can you please give some example of the internal energy and external energy so that we can understand in a simple language, and also the meaning of swarupa bhuta.
So we define a Supreme Lord, but then the question arises, well, how does He do anything? So He can personally do everything [Laughs]. Like the potter makes the pot and gets his hands dirty [Laughs]. So if the Supreme Lord creates a material world and He personally involves, it doesn’t sound too nice because He gets tangled up with [Laughs] the matter.
Devotee: Can you say again, sorry?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, so we don’t want to say that the Lord directly interacts with matter. So to explain how He does it, we say the Lord has His shaktis. So that material shakti manifests prakrti eternally, and then that prakrti under the influence of the Lord creates a material world, and indirectly then the Lord has devatas in charge of things in the material world. So this external energy is called the bahiranga shakti, external means that, it’s not directly in the Lord’s interest. He lets it operate by itself [Laughs]. So the Lord, on the other hand, has His internal energy manifesting spiritual world and pastimes there. That’s the Lord’s interest. Material world, no [Laughs]. Outside His interest. So just as the external energy manifests everything in the material world, the internal energy manifests everything in the spiritual world. So this internal energy, of course, is composed of sandhini, samvit, and hladini and it manifests the spiritual world, everything in the spiritual world and rasa and bliss [Laughs]. So the internal energy directly manifests the Lord’s spiritual desires. So because it directly expresses the Lord’s very nature of bliss, we call it His swarupa shakti.
3.) Can you please explain more about swarupa shakti?
Yeah. So the swarupa shakti we also call the cit shakti or antaranga shakti or internal energy. So the Lord’s nature is knowledge and bliss. But how can He manifest that? How can He express that? How can He feel that knowledge and bliss? So, of course, bliss manifests through rasa. And rasa does not exist if there’s only one person. So therefore we must have not just the Lord, we have to have other people in the spiritual world [Laughs]. And those people in spiritual world interact with the Lord. And to interact with the Lord, they also need knowledge and bliss [Laughs]. So all of this is accomplished by this internal energy, which has samvit shakti to cause the knowledge and hladini shakti to cause the bliss. And to manifest everything, we have the sandhini shakti [Laughs].
Devotee: Thank you very much.
4.) Can I have a question? How about Shiva tattva? Shiva is more than Brahma, his tattva, but at the same time not like Vishnu. How he is different from Vishnu? Almost Vishnu? What is the difference between Vishnu and Shiva? Can you explain?
So the jiva is defined as many, many small conscious particles. So they are conscious particles, but some of them fall into ignorance and get material bodies [Laughs]. Supreme Lord is one, not many. He is full of knowledge and full of bliss. Never falls into ignorance, He has eternal spiritual body. But Supreme Lord can manifest, though He is one, He can manifest many different forms. And some of those forms manifest less qualities, some manifest more qualities. So Shiva is described as one form of the Lord, but he manifests five less qualities than the Vishnu form. So we put him in a special category. Unlike the jivas, he has an eternal body of sat-cit-ananda [Laughs].
Devotee: It’s the same as jiva and Shiva?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: No.
Devotee: No. Different?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Not as sat-cit-ananda, he can be conditioned in the material world. The Lord has eternal spiritual body. Shiva has eternal spiritual body. Shiva can manifest special powers that jivas don’t have. But he does not have same qualities as Vishnu, or he doesn’t manifest them. He doesn’t manifest universes like Mahavishnu [Laughs]. He doesn’t manifest avatars. So, because he manifests less qualities than the Vishnu forms, he is put in separate category.
Devotee: How about Shiva is touching material world, but still he is transcendental, right?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yes. Yeah.
Devotee: Okay. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: We say that he is tamoguna or whatever. He is not really tamoguna. He is in charge of tamoguna. Just like Vishnu is in charge of sattvaguna [Laughs]. Sometimes, in a particular universe, a jiva can take up the role of Shiva [Laughs]. In that sense, he is like Brahma, a jiva, who causes creation. So, a jiva takes up the role of Shiva and is able to destroy the universe [Laughs]. So, when a jiva becomes Shiva, then of course he could be affected by the gunas.
Devotee: Thank you very much. Hare Krishna
5.) In spiritual world, how can we use the word manifest because it is eternal, everything is there already?
Yeah, they eternally manifested [Laughs]. Not that they weren’t there and they show. In other words, a form like Varaha manifests a certain amount of qualities. He shows those qualities eternally.
6.) Maharaj, just like Krishna creates this material world for the jiva. So, the spiritual world also Krishna created?
Well, not created, it’s eternal.
Devotee: Yeah, eternal, but it’s also like the jivas. Like when we want to serve and enjoy with Krishna, it’s like that also.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, that implies a cause or a reason why the Lord manifests the spiritual world, though it’s eternal. But ultimately we have to say that the Lord’s bliss is not caused by anything. It’s spontaneous. So, the spiritual world and everything in it is simply a spontaneous manifestation or expression of the Lord’s bliss without cause.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!