Srimad Bhagavatam – 11.12.7 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | ISKCON Chennai | 5 June 2021
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 12 Verse 7.
ŚB 11.12.7
ते नाधीतश्रुतिगणा नोपासितमहत्तमा: ।
अव्रतातप्ततपस: मत्सङ्गान्मामुपागता: ॥ ७ ॥
te nādhīta-śruti-gaṇā
nopāsita-mahattamāḥ
avratātapta-tapasaḥ
mat-saṅgān mām upāgatāḥ
Synonyms
te — they; na — not; adhīta — having studied; śruti–gaṇāḥ — the Vedic literatures; na — not; upāsita — having worshiped; mahat–tamaḥ — great saints; avrata — without vows; atapta — not having undergone; tapasaḥ — austerities; mat–saṅgāt — simply by association with Me and My devotees; mām — Me; upāgatāḥ — they achieved.
Translation
The persons I have mentioned did not undergo serious studies of the Vedic literature, nor did they worship great saintly persons, nor did they execute severe vows or austerities. Simply by association with Me and My devotees, they achieved Me.
Purport
Study of the Vedic literature, worship of those who teach the śruti-mantras, acceptance of vows and austerities, etc., as mentioned previously, are helpful processes that please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this verse, however, the Lord again explains that all such processes are secondary to the essential process of associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees. By other processes one may gain the association of the Lord and His devotees, which will actually give the perfection of life. The word mat-saṅgāt can also be read as sat-saṅgāt, with the same meaning. In the reading mat-saṅgāt (“from association with Me”), mat is also understood to indicate “those who are Mine,” or the devotees. Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī mentions that a pure devotee can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by his own association, since simply by associating with his own activities and consciousness, he associates with the Lord.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So, the previous verse gave a lot of examples of different persons who attained the Lord by association, some were even demons. And the important point as mentioned in this verse is that they attained it by their association, not by studying the Vedas, etc. Okay, so, in this way, the association of devotees and the mercy of the Lord are considered to be higher than anything else. So, these persons did not study the Vedas, and still they attained the Lord. So, why was that? It’s because of association with the devotees of the Supreme Lord. However, in that statement, we shouldn’t think that therefore everything else is rejected, as mentioned previously like studying the Vedas, or doing austerities, or whatever. They may be helpful in advancing, and therefore the devotees can practice other things that are mentioned previously. Nevertheless, if they don’t worship the Lord and respect the devotees and associate with the devotees, they cannot advance. Therefore, it’s a matter of what is most important.
So, here the statement of rejection of other things does not mean they are completely rejected. It merely means that the most important element is mercy of Krishna and mercy of devotees. And if we do the other things, if we don’t do this, it is difficult. In the list of things mentioned previously, some of the things are more favorable, some things are less favorable. So, tapas or austerity has some favorability, at the same time as I mentioned previously, not too good to concentrate on that. It tends to dry up the heart. The process of bhakti melts the heart. So, therefore, by all the austerity and vairagya etc., we tend to go in the opposite direction. So therefore, they may be helpful to somebody who [Not clear] austerity, but we have to be careful that we do the bhakti in a certain way that it is not obstructed.
So, austerity and many of these items mentioned are part of the varnashrama system. If they are done in one way, they become unfavorable. If they are done in another way, okay, they are okay. But even though we do them favorably, we should not over stress that. The main process is the process of bhakti. That means to worship the Lord and respect the devotees. So, another way of stating this is that bhakti can take different forms, bhakti can be the main element. In one sense it is called Pradhani-bhuta bhakti. Pradhani means main element. So, we do bhakti and we do other things secondarily. We concentrate and spend more time on bhakti. We spend less time on other things.
And then the other type of bhakti is Gauna vrtti bhakti, which means the bhakti is secondary. So that means that we do something else like varnashrama and we do a little bit of bhakti only. We are very enthusiastic in following the principles of varnashrama. And we spend most of our time trying to perfect all those things by following the rules. And we do a little bit of bhakti. So, of the two, the first is much better. So, that’s a more advanced stage. So, at that stage, we give most prominence to bhakti and everything else is secondary. And if we do bhakti but it is secondary and other something else is prominent, that means our goal is much different, we’re not really headed. Our goal is not prema, our goal is whatever we’re doing prominently, like varnashrama. For people without strong faith, yes, they can do this secondary bhakti and it is beneficial for them. It is much better than doing all varnashrama and no bhakti. In fact, Bhagavatam describes that if there’s no bhakti and we’re just doing the varnashrama, it is useless. So, therefore, if we do have faith, then bhakti is most prominent.
As one advances, then one becomes less interested in doing all these other things. And if one is qualified, then one can give up everything and only do bhakti. However, that is considered to be an advanced stage. Baladeva Vidyabhushan calls this the nirapeksha devotee. And in Lord Caitanya’s movement, these were the babajis. The Babaji had no ashram and no varna. He gave up any sign of being a brahmana, vaisya, kshatriya or a sudra and he didn’t even act like a sannyasi. He didn’t hold the danda, he didn’t wear orange cloth. So, he’s completely beyond all varnas and all ashramas. So, this, of course, was not too prominent. And, of course, the reason is that you have to be qualified for just doing bhakti all the time. Of course, it is also, we say, that following varnashrama is closely associated with being [Not clear].
So, a grhastha ashram is in all of the different varnas, sudra, vaisya, kshatriya and brahmana. So, most of the population will be grhastha. So, upper caste, vaisya, kshatriya, brahmanas are allowed to be brahmachari, but it’s not for life, it’s only for short time. And, vanaprastha is after 50 years old. So, therefore, the majority of the people will be grhastha. So, the grhasthas are obliged to follow the varnashrama system. However, if they have faith, they’re also qualified to do bhakti. So, they follow their varnashrama duties, plus they perform bhakti. But, as I said, they should give prominence to the bhakti. The more attachment they have for the varnashrama system, the less pure is their bhakti.
So, as I said, this is the process for the majority of the people. So, they follow the varnashrama, but it is secondary and bhakti is secondary. So, in that position, of course, they can also do mixed bhakti. As a grhastha, they could worship Krishna and everything, but they may have some attachment to getting some material benefits from their worship. So, that is why we always emphasize pure bhakti. That means that while we’re practicing as a grhastha, and we’re worshiping the Lord, we should not ask for material benefits. This does not mean we have no desires. We are not really pure. But, when we’re practicing bhakti and worshiping the Lord, we’re not requesting material benefits from Him. So, we call this process bhakti.
So, the person does sadhana bhakti as the main process, along with that he carries out varnashrama because he is a grhastha. But the point is that the emphasis is always upon this process of bhakti mainly. So, bhakti means we worship the Lord. But we do that through different engagement of the senses. So, the definition of sadhana bhakti is to engage the senses so that we can attain bhava and perceive the Lord.
So, we engage the eye in seeing the deity. We engage the tongue in tasting prasadam. We engage the ear in hearing about Krishna. We engage our various senses and our whole body in serving the Lord in the temple. And, of course, we engage the mind also. We think of the form and the activities of the Lord. We engage the voice in chanting the Lord’s name. So, we can do all of these different activities of bhakti. And, these are more prominent than all the activities we would do of varnashrama system. But, even in these activities, we give prominence to some of them more than others. So, we give most prominence to chanting the name of Krishna. We can do the other types of bhakti, but we should have to do chanting of Krishna’s name. So, though it is possible to advance by all of these processes, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has taught us to take shelter mainly of the name.
So, just as we give more prominence to bhakti rather than varnashrama, or jnana, or yoga, so we also give more prominence to the name of Krishna over the other processes of bhakti. So, why do we do that? By chanting the name of Krishna, this is the easiest process of associating with Krishna and getting His mercy. And, in chanting the name, we do sankirtan, we associate with the devotees. So, this process of chanting the Lord’s name brings about associating with the devotees and association of Krishna. So, this is the most powerful process by which we can advance in devotional service.
As I said, usually the grhasthas will also practice the rules of varnashrama. However, in the modern world, you find people have difficulty doing everything. So, practicing varnashrama is also difficult. Practicing bhakti is also difficult. Why? Because of time constraints. They have to support their family and their bodies. So, they spend so much time on that, it’s difficult to do anything. So, if there is a choice, ultimately, we do bhakti. And, if there is a choice in bhakti, we don’t have any time at all, at least we chant the name. So, therefore, we have to use our intelligence also in performing our bhakti. Hare Krishna.
Q & A:
1.) The present Krishna conscious movement is also based on the authority of Srila Rupa Goswami. We are generally known as Rupanugas or followers in the footsteps of Rupa Goswami. So, now the question is, is it okay for an ISKCON devotee to follow some other manjari or do their sadhana, Maharaj?
Well, that’s part of Raganuga bhakti. Of course, Raganuga could be also vatsalya rasa or sakhya rasa or even dasya rasa. But, of course, we see that the Goswamis basically were in the Manjari bhava or Madhurya rasa. So, definitely it is an accepted process. And that is described in the first section of the Nectar of Devotion. And, by doing that, Rupa Goswami says, it’s the quickest way of advancing.
However, it also has a few dangers. The danger may be, one danger is that we think of Raganuga then we may think of not following any rules. So, then we become lax in our basic principles. And the other is, if we get prematurely involved in Madhurya rasa and the pastimes of Krishna and gopis, then we may impose upon those pastimes, material conception. So, therefore, to prevent that, we have to approach that process very carefully. So, as I say, it can be done. It has to be done cautiously at the proper time.
2.) Do Babajis also come under the class of devotees referred by Srila Sridhara Swami, because in the purport there is a reference?
No, he doesn’t mention Babajis at all, but anyway, devotee means any type of devotee. But are you referring here to the idea that he says I can advance by his own association? Is that what you mean?
Devotee : Exactly Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : So, I don’t know, Sridhara Swami doesn’t know Babajis at this time because he came before Lord Caitanya and the Babaji movement only started after Lord Caitanya. So, he couldn’t be referring to those Babajis [Laughs].
3.) Maharaj, we see that bhakti alone is sufficient to attain the Supreme Lord. Being the case, why the Lord has given us karma, jnana and other yogas?
For those not qualified for bhakti, then they have to follow karma yoga, jnana yoga or astanga yoga. And those who are following bhakti yoga, if they have some material attachment to family, then they should also atleast karma yoga. So, they have a function, but it is always secondary. For the devotees it is bhakti. It may be primary for people who are very materially attached.
4.) Maharaj, we see that the highest emphasis is being given to devotees’ association among all other angas. Can we first consider that, is it over and above sravanam?
Well, we cannot have sravanam unless we associate with the devotee. Who do we hear from? So, devotee association means we hear from devotees, it is called sravanam also. Of course, you can associate by taking the foot dust or the foot water, that’s also there. But I also explained that the main function of devotee association is to give knowledge, that takes place. When we talk about sanga, it means also sravanam.
5.) Maharaj, can we say that sravanam without devotees association is poisonous? And chanting without faith, if injected by devotees, is also not beneficial?
Well, as I mentioned the other day, if we hear from a non-devotee, a katha or Bhagavatam they become poisonous. So, whether we hear the name or we hear Krishna katha, sravanam or kirtanam, and it comes from the wrong person, then it doesn’t have any spiritual meaning.
6.) Maharaj, by practicing varnashrama along with bhakti, bhakti being permanent and varnashrama being secondary, can we attain prema in the same birth? Or in the subsequent birth should we elevate ourselves to the level of a sannyasi or a babaji to attain prema?
If one has attachment to the varnashrama system, then this is an obstacle. If you practice without attachment at all, only to set an example for others, then that’s equivalent of renouncing the same thing. So, both of those things, completely giving it up or doing it without any attachment, this can lead to prema.
7.) Maharaj, next question is with reference to your comment in the purport. The statement goes like this in the purport. “By other processes, one may gain the association of the Lord and His devotees, which will actually give the perfection of life.” So, the question is, even after coming into the association of devotees, we find that a person is not able to take full advantage of such devotee association. So, does it mean that one has to do some other process to gain sufficient faith in that devotee association?
Well, if we think of the different activities of bhakti, they all involve devotees. Archana, then it is the devotees doing the archana. Of course, we could just do some isolated thing like bowing down and doing dandavats in front of the deity by ourselves. There would be no devotee. But even to do that, we have to learn it from somebody. Somebody told us to do it. Somebody inspired us to do it. So, even though we may do some isolated activity of bhakti and there doesn’t seem to be any influence of devotees, actually, mercy of devotees was there previously to cause us to do it. Therefore, we have some association that caused us to do that type of activity.
But of course, more important than that type of activity is to hear from the devotees. That will take place when we have real faith. As long as we don’t have that faith, then we will not hear from them. So the Kanishta Adhikari in the Bhagavatam is one who worships deity, but he doesn’t associate with the devotees. Due to the mercy of devotees, he has come to bhakti. That is good. Still, he does not have proper knowledge and therefore his worship may be not so pure. If he associates with devotees, then his faith increases and then eventually he can hear from the devotees. Then he can worship the deity purely. In other words, he becomes a Madhyama Adhikari.
8.) Maharaj, when a devotee practices Sadhana Bhakti, eventually will he be able to attain Prema just with sadhana bhakti?
If he performs sadhana properly, it will lead to bhava, and bhava will lead to prema.
9.) Can we say that it is not necessary to directly practice Raganuga?
Raganuga is a Sadhana Bhakti. Vaidhi Bhakti is also Sadhana Bhakti. So you have a choice of either and then by either you get bhava and you get prema.
10.) Maharaj, when a devotee can assume that he is qualified for Raganuga Bhakti, at what stage?
It is not defined in terms of stage, like Anartha nivritti or Nistha, etc. It is defined in terms of eagerness to develop the mood. So by previous birth, perhaps, and mercy of devotees, one may develop that in sraddha itself, before one even does. However, in most cases we see that, and as I said, one has to be careful, especially in the modern age, that we don’t prematurely practice. So we should become steady in the basic principles and the basic practices of bhakti. And then gradually we can cultivate that attraction.
11.) Maharaj, if one’s wife or a husband is a devotee, can that be considered as a sadhu-sanga for the other partner?
Yes, of course. If they are associating with each other, one is a devotee, fine. And if they give some instruction, even better.
12.) Maharaj, can you please elaborate on that? What is the type of diksha system which is followed in ISKCON?
Ultimately, diksha means to get the deity mantras to worship the deity. This is what we call second initiation. However, we have two ceremonies in which in the first ceremony we do not get the mantras. So the aspect of diksha in the first ceremony we can say is to get a name like Krishna Das or Gaura Das. So we can say it is diksha part one. And the second is [Not clear]. But scripturally, if you don’t get the mantra then that would not be considered diksha. In other words, some guru can go out giving names to everybody but he doesn’t give any mantra then that would not be considered diksha. On the other hand, if he gave out mantras without the name, still it would be considered diksha. And with that mantra, one becomes a follower of Pancharatra viddhi. So that’s why we say if you are first initiated you can’t worship the Lord.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!