Srimad Bhagavatam 3.22.5 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | Prabhupada Desh | 9 August 2026
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3 Chapter 22 Verse 5.
ŚB 3.22.5
तव सन्दर्शनादेवच्छिन्ना मे सर्वसंशया: ।
यत्स्वयं भगवान् प्रीत्या धर्ममाह रिरक्षिषो: ॥ ५ ॥
tava sandarśanād eva
cchinnā me sarva-saṁśayāḥ
yat svayaṁ bhagavān prītyā
dharmam āha rirakṣiṣoḥ
Synonyms
tava — your; sandarśanāt — by sight; eva — only; chinnāḥ — resolved; me — my; sarva-saṁśayāḥ — all doubts; yat — inasmuch as; svayam — personally; bhagavān — Your Lordship; prītyā — lovingly; dharmam — duty; āha — explained; rirakṣiṣoḥ — of a king anxious to protect his subjects.
Translation
Now I have resolved all my doubts simply by meeting you, for Your Lordship has very kindly and clearly explained the duty of a king who desires to protect his subjects.
Purport
Manu described herewith the result of seeing a great saintly person. Lord Caitanya says that one should always try to associate with saintly persons because if one establishes a proper association with a saintly person, even for a moment, one attains all perfection. Somehow or other, if one meets a saintly person and achieves his favor, then the entire mission of one’s human life is fulfilled. In our personal experience we have actual proof of this statement of Manu. Once we had the opportunity to meet Viṣṇupāda Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, and on first sight he requested this humble self to preach his message in the Western countries. There was no preparation for this, but somehow or other he desired it, and by his grace we are now engaged in executing his order, which has given us a transcendental occupation and has saved and liberated us from the occupation of material activities. Thus it is actually a fact that if one meets a saintly person completely engaged in transcendental duties and achieves his favor, then one’s life mission becomes complete. What is not possible to achieve in thousands of lives can be achieved in one moment if there is an opportunity to meet a saintly person. It is therefore enjoined in Vedic literature that one should always try to associate with saintly persons and try to disassociate oneself from the common man, because by one word of a saintly person one can be liberated from material entanglement. A saintly person has the power, because of his spiritual advancement, to give immediate liberation to the conditioned soul. Here Manu admits that all his doubts are now over because Kardama has very kindly described the different duties of individual souls.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj:
So in this verse it says, by seeing you, all my doubts have been destroyed. So, in other words, simply by seeing a devotee, all of one’s problems are solved. But then, of course, in the second part of the verse he says, you have spoken about Dharma. So, mercy from a devotee can be transmitted in various ways. Simply seeing a devotee is wonderful [Laughs].
So, of course, there is also the opposite. To see the materialist, to see the atheist, to see the Mayavadi is considered a great misfortune. So, Lord Caitanya says, if you see a Mayavadi from a distance, immediately you have to jump in the river and bathe. So, simply seeing can start the whole process of becoming material [Laughs]. And it can also start the process of becoming spiritual. So, that is the power of bhakti. We can act in many ways.
We know that we can engage all of our different senses in devotional service. So, we engage our sight in seeing the form of the deity or in seeing devotees. And we can engage our ear, of course, in hearing Bhagavatam. By seeing the Lord or the devotees. And we can engage our ear by hearing about the Lord or hearing about the devotees [Laughs].
Actually, in the definition of bhakti given in Nectar of Devotion, he talks about establishing your relationship with Krishna. So, this is called kṛṣṇa-anuśīlanam. Kṛṣṇa-anuśīlanam, cultivating a relationship with Krishna positively. But then, our Acharyas say, the word Krishna can also include all the other forms of the Lord. You can establish a relationship with Rama or Narasimha Dev. But then the Acharyas also say it means also cultivating a relation with devotees. So, we can hear about devotees, we can see devotees, etc. So, all this operates using our senses which are look-like material.
So, of course, how can material senses give spiritual result? And the answer is the power of bhakti spiritualizes the senses. So, therefore, we use the ear and the eye etc, but the eye and the ear become spiritualized. Why? Because it’s related to the Lord with devotion. So, therefore, all whether we see or we hear or whatever it’s all very effective.
So, Manu says, soon I have seen you, all my doubts are finished. But then he also says, I’ve heard about Dharma from you [Laughs]. So, of course, seeing is good but ultimately hearing process, to hear about topics of the Lord is stressed the most. So, if we talk about association with devotees, yes, we can see, we can touch, we can do many things but ultimately we should hear.
So, throughout the Bhagavatam there is association between devotees but the principal element there is hearing instruction. And that goes for not only association but even the relationship between Guru and disciple. So, the important activity in the relation of Guru and disciple is teaching knowledge. And in fact, Bhagavatam, not only Bhagavatam but all the other Puranas involve exchange of knowledge. Devotees associate with each other and they exchange knowledge.
So, whole Bhagavatam is exchange of knowledge, Sukadeva Goswami speaks to Parikshit. So, this is the important event in their association. Of course, if Parikshit sees Sukadeva Goswami, very nice but more important is the instructions, the Bhagavatam. So, this is what is emphasized in the scripture. And of course, it’s also emphasized in our Sampradaya. So, our Sampradaya of Caitanya Mahaprabhu is established on knowledge. Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave instructions to the Goswamis to write books. And what is the purpose of those books? To establish the Sampradaya.
So, the Sampradaya is carried on by passing that knowledge down. Of course, we can just take the main instruction, Lord Caitanya says, chant the holy name, so that, we can carry on. But though Lord Caitanya gave that as the Yuga Dharma, he also instructed the Goswamis to write books. So, instead of wandering around India, telling everybody to chant the holy name, the Goswamis stayed in Vrindavan and wrote books. And because of those books we have a Sampradaya that has lasted for 500 years.
If those books were not there, we wouldn’t have a Sampradaya at the present time. And in fact, over a few hundred years the books tended to get lost [Laughs]. We have some works which we can’t find anymore [Laughs]. Of course it is said, Baladeva Vidyabhushana wrote commentaries on ten Upanishads. We find only commentary on one Upanishad [Laughs]. Some of the works of Vishwanath Chakravarti seem to be lost [Laughs]. So, over hundreds of years things tend to disappear [Laughs]. Nevertheless, some things are preserved, so this is how we still have Sampradaya.
At the time of Bhaktivinoda Thakur again, things tend to get lost. Just to find the scriptures was a big task. So Bhaktivinoda Thakur had to search for an authorized copy of Caitanya Caritamrta. It wasn’t available. People have heard about it but they have never seen it [Laughs]. So finally he traced out a manuscript copy and then he printed it. So in this way, Bhaktivinoda Thakur spent a long time reviving and preserving the scriptures. And Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur also began to preserve the scriptures and he even began to print them out. So in this way, that knowledge was preserved and amped back. And it’s only because of that knowledge that we have a parampara.
Well, of course, it’s the most important part of the parampara, the knowledge. And that is why in Bhagavad Gita, Srila Prabhupada and Bhaktisiddhanta, they quote a siksha parampara. We preserve the movement by the teachings. Of course, there is the other type of parampara. That is a diksha parampara. Ideally, of course, a diksha parampara should also pass on the teachings. But sometimes or often it does not include teachings.
So sometimes that diksha does not include passing on teaching. So it becomes a formal ceremony. And then you say, oh, I have been initiated. Finished. No teachings [Laughs]. Of course, originally diksha was passing on mantra. And that mantra contained knowledge. So that is the definition of diksha. Divyaṁ jñānaṁ yato dadyāt [Bhakti-sandarbha (283)]. Diksha means to pass on transcendental knowledge.
So Jiva Goswami explains that knowledge is passed down in the mantra. In other words, if you don’t get the mantra there is no diksha. And, of course, you can transfer the knowledge without the diksha. So, of course, that mantra does not mean Hare Krishna mantra. It means the mantras you get at second initiation.
So when people trace a diksha parampara, they are tracing who they got the second initiation mantras from and who gave him those mantras. So for convenience sake, people often trace their parampara through their diksha line, who they got their mantras from. So, ideally, of course, the mantra contains divya jnanam, knowledge. However, it is very concentrated.
Just like we have the Brahma Gayatri mantra. So, if you get that mantra, you have Vedic diksha. So that mantra contains all the Vedas, all knowledge. Still directly you just chant the mantra, you know the Vedas [Laughs]. However, practically speaking, this is only an introduction. If you get the mantra, then you have to study all the Vedas [Laughs].
So, in the same way, we have Vaishnava diksha. You get the secret Krishna mantra or Gauranga mantra. Theoretically, you chant that mantra, you get divya jnanam. So, you could realize Krishna, that’s the ultimate knowledge [Laughs]. But, practically speaking, along with that mantra, you should get teachings. That is, knowledge of Bhagavatam, knowledge of Bhagavad Gita, knowledge of the commentaries of the Acharyas. Ideally, then that diksha guru should also give not only the mantra, which is your divya jnanam, but also give the teachings.
However, often, that didn’t happen. So, the guru gives the mantra, that’s it [Laughs]. You don’t get teachings. You don’t get teachings. If you want the teachings, you have to go to another guru. But, many people didn’t go to another guru. So, all they had was the mantra. Which has all knowledge, but most people could not access that knowledge.
So, that diksha became important only by the fact that they got a title, I am a disciple of so-and-so by diksha, and I can trace my diksha line [Laughs]. That’s it. So, it became a formal way of tracing a line. So, yes, it’s a way of tracing a mantra, but it doesn’t guarantee you have knowledge. So, therefore, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur did not trace the diksha line, he traced siksha line instead, to stress the importance of siksha.
So, there are many ways we can associate with the devotees, many ways we can relate with the guru, but the most important thing is to get some teachings. And the guru can also give orders. Do this or do that. In other words, how do we implement scripture? Implement. We have all the instructions of scripture.
Which instructions of scripture should we follow? So, of course, Lord Caitanya’s big instruction is chant the holy name [Laughs]. But then He also gives the instruction, you become guru, and you spread the holy name to everybody. So, this is the instruction that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur gave to Srila Prabhupada. So, in itself it’s not new, it’s already there in Caitanya Caritamrta. It’s in Caitanya Caritamrta, so it’s not a new instruction [Laughs].
It doesn’t go beyond scripture [Laughs]. But then, it became a little more particular. Because as Prabhupada said preach to western countries [Laughs]. So, this became very special. The devotees previous to that were preaching in India. So, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had his disciples preach throughout India. But then he gave this instruction to Srila Prabhupada, to preach it in the western countries.
So, of course, Prabhupada tried in India first. He tried for many years in India. He took sannyasa and he was approaching different people, he tried to make centers in various places. And then he decided to take this more literally. Okay, I will preach to western countries, not India [Laughs]. And then Prabhupada went to America and when he got there, he was thinking, well, what am I supposed to do here? Maybe I will be successful and I will have one disciple here. One follower. Or something else may happen. So he says, I am just a puppet in Krishna’s hand. I don’t know what’s going to happen [Laughs]. But after trying for a few years, then the movement was established and it began to grow.
So then he said, my success is simply that I followed the order of my guru. He took that instruction of the guru and applied it literally [Laughs]. And by the power of that instruction, by the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Krishna, then there was success. So there we see the importance of following instructions, of passing on the teachings and implementing the teachings properly. So then Prabhupada says in this purport, what is not possible to achieve in thousands of lives can be achieved in one moment if there is an opportunity to meet a saintly person.
Srila Prabhupada did not have much association with Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. The number of times he met was maybe five or so. And even those five times he met was not longer than an hour each time. Nevertheless, that was, those opportunities produced such great result [Laughs]. So if we have a great devotee and we have another devotee then who follows the instructions then we can get great results. So that is the power of association.
Q & A :
1.) The question is how come Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada were against Mayavadis. They didn’t like them.
So we see this is quite a emphasized point in Prabhupada’s purports. But it’s not new with Srila Prabhupada. Even within Bhaktisiddhanta’s writings we will find the same thing. But if you go back to Caitanya Caritamrta you will find the same thing [Laughs]. And if you go to Srimad Bhagavatam you will find the same thing [Laughs].
So the reason is that, of course, Mayavada philosophy is a type of impersonalism. There are other types of impersonalism also. But this Mayavada philosophy is Shankaracharya’s version. All the impersonalists believe that the ultimate goal is liberation and merging in Brahman. And though it is a spiritual goal and it’s part of artha, dharma, kama, moksha, at the same time Bhagavatam rejects them.
The reason is that though it is spiritual, it is less than realization of Bhagavan. And once you get that liberation, you cannot proceed to bhakti and prema. And therefore Bhagavatam rejects all of that impersonal philosophy and practices.
So Shankaracharya’s version of impersonalism is more specialized. So, in his philosophy, he does not accept that the material world is real. And the jivas are not real. In our philosophy, we say, okay, Lord is real, matter is real, jivas are real. There are many real things. In Mayavada philosophy, only Brahman is real. So, jivas are not real. So, why are we in the material world if we are not real? We are Brahman under illusion. We get rid of the illusion. We are Brahman. So, therefore, only Brahman exists. No jiva, no Krishna [Laughs]. No possibility of bhakti.
So, in this philosophy, which became very popular, it defeated all the other impersonal philosophies, and it even defeated even Vaishnavism in many cases [Laughs]. It became so popular. It rejects the idea of a Supreme Lord. And, therefore, it is offensive. To say Supreme Lord is illusory, that is a material body. Material body is illusory, that is offense [Laughs]. However, that philosophy, as I said, became very popular.
And, though its original philosophical nature got diluted over a thousand years or so, still, it was prevalent even today. So, at the present day, we have many Indian sadhus who are proclaiming similar level philosophy. So, the influence of Mayavada has become quite pervasive among impersonalists. Well, abroad also, because they go abroad [Laughs].
So, because it is completely opposed to Supreme Lord, spiritual form of Lord, Krishna, etc., and process of devotional service, we reject it. And, of course, if you start indulging in that philosophy, you become contaminated. So, therefore, Lord Caitanya says, even if you see the Mayavada, not even hear, but see him, you must purify yourself by bathing in the Ganga [Laughs].
Devotee: She had the same question. So you answered it.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Basically offensive, and if you get in that philosophy, there’s no possibility of realizing Krishna. So, therefore, we reject it.
2.) From the moment Srila Prabhupada recieved instruction from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati to the moment he implemented his instruction, those 40 years time. So how should we see those 40 years time? It’s 40 years of preparation or it’s 40 years to receive the instruction for carrying out? He was successful because it was the original instruction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. And what would have happened if he had immediately applied Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s instruction, which was, in the sense, how much does time count in the application of the instruction?
Well, we could give many different reasons but ultimately, nobody knows Krishna’s plan. Even if you try to do something else, it may not work out [Laughs]. Of course, because of Prabhupada’s circumstances, he got married, and he was a grhastha and he had to support his family for so many years. And it’s only after he renounced, that vanaprastha and that sannyasa, that he was able to dedicate himself.
So, from that time where he actually could dedicate more time, then we see he was preparing himself. And how he prepared himself? He began writing things [Laughs]. And ultimately, of course, he came up with the first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. So, he felt it was permanent if he could actually write things and have books. So, the books were a very important part of his preaching. So, when he went to America, he brought Bhagavatam with him. And when he started his preaching movement in America, half the time he was writing commentary on Bhagavad Gita [Laughs]. And after he finished that, then he started to complete the commentary on Bhagavatam.
So, therefore, though he only began the preaching at a certain point, 1966 or whatever, actually he was preparing for that by previous writing. And we see, if you read the biography, that he came to America at a particular time. At that time, many young people were frustrated with material life. So, when he presented Kirtan and this philosophy, people were ready to accept it. So, somehow, his preparation and then his going to America all coincided with, we could say, a proper setting [Laughs].
3.) People are taking Krishna consciousness and are tackling all these sort of people on Sunday feasts. But recently I don’t know if it’s because yoga is very real, or Kirtan is very real. Even while attending our feasts of course, we remain attached to impersonalism. And these elders, we hear that when they ask questions during classes, Sunday feasts, Sunday programs, they say that they are called, even if they can’t be [Not clear] for a long time. How should we see that? What can we do? How to deal with that?
So, in ancient times, thousand years ago, even 500 years ago, you could convince people to become a Vaishnava and change from Mayavadi philosophy by discussion. So Bhattacharya would discuss, he would defeat the Mayavadi, the Mayavadi would become a Vaishnava [Laughs]. And even 500 years ago, we see Lord Caitanya talk to the Mayavadis in Varanasi, and they became Vaishnavas.
He spoke to Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya, who was impersonalist also, and he became a Vaishnava. In most discussions we will use philosophical arguments. And when people are defeated then they will accept defeat and they will change. That does not operate in the modern world [Laughs]. People’s beliefs are not based on any philosophy or any logic. And if you present logical arguments, they won’t accept them also [Laughs]. So, a lot of their belief may come from simply association. Yeah, impersonalism.
Just like many people in India, simply because of their tradition and association, they say, okay, we worship everybody, everybody is God. So, by association with people who are, you know, believing in that impersonalism, then they also tend to adopt it. If they’re attached to that association, it is hard for them to give up that philosophy. So, if they’re not so attached, then of course, there’s a chance that they can associate with us, and they can change [Laughs]. So, more it depends on who they associate, how much they associate with [Laughs]. Yeah, rather than logical arguments or whatever. Rather than using logical arguments.
We can only begin the process of pure bhakti if we have faith in pure bhakti. And it may take many lifetimes [Not clear]. So, in the case of people who have impersonal influence, it may be quite difficult for them [Laughs]. However, if they get association of Prasadam and Kirtan, then they can gradually change [Laughs]. But it may take time, that’s all [Laughs].
4.) Maharaj I have seen in gatherings with devotees or friends that Hare Krishna is chanted for hours but if you speak with many of them, they still have impersonal concept or mindset. They think that holy name is sufficient but difficult to change their impersonal mindset. So Srila Prabhupada said it’s sufficient to chant Hare Krishna but if your mind is impersonal in nature, then how to deal this?
So, the power of the name of the Lord is such that it can affect all people. If they have no offense, it is more powerful. And even if they don’t have faith, like in the case of Ajamila, it can purify them of all their karmas. If they have some offensive mentality, then it is slower process.
If they are big demons like Sisupala, then Krishna’s name is still powerful. Krishna’s name is more powerful than Vishnu’s name. So, Sisupala was big aparadhi, big offender. He hated the Lord. But by constantly chanting Krishna’s name, he got purified. And eventually, he even ended up in Vaikuntha.
So, the name of Krishna in particular is all powerful and it can purify even demons, but it may take some time [Laughs]. In many cases, people who are impersonal or whatever, it’s not that they are big demons, but it’s more of their impersonalist side association or habit only. So it’s possible that they can get more benefit quicker.
5.) She’s still thinking about her question. Yesterday’s question and your answer. Okay so we put artha, kama, dharma and moksha in line. But she’s thinking, okay, first we must think about our survival, so we have to get food and eat. But even in that case shouldn’t we put dharma at the basis because even to survive, to get a job, to eat food, if we don’t follow dharma, we are not going to get it. And she said even if we think about kama, enjoyment of the world, we should also have dharma as a basis just to go on a straight line otherwise we get lost. So why is dharma as the basis of artha and kama?
Well, in the material world, they have artha and kama without dharma. In other words, there’s no restriction. Whatever you want for your maintenance, you take and you don’t follow any rules. Whatever enjoyment you want, you take, you don’t restrict it. So, that’s without dharma. So, if we accept this varnashrama system, then we’ll accept that we have to get our maintenance, we have to fulfill our desires, but we restrict it by dharma. So, the three things go together. It’s not that one is before or after or whatever. They’re together [Laughs].
Devotee: So, this kind of approves what she says that dharma should be as the basis also for artha and kama.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: For, for varnashrama system.
Devotee: Also religious dharma?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, by dharma we mean, we’re talking about varnashrama dharma.
Devotee: I think you mean that in our present time, we put artha first, we put kama, and then we develop some principles. This is what I understand that in present times, this is what people generally do, materialistic people do.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, well, they do without dharma [Laughs]. So, if we want to be more civilized, we follow varnashrama, and we combine the artha and the kama with dharma. And though there is some worship of the Lord, it is minimal. But it’s acceptable. For people who are not spiritually enthusiastic, okay, most of the people, let them live nicely and follow some rules [Laughs]. And by following those rules in this lifetime, they can continue into next lifetime, next time, and keep improving and improving their artha and kama [Laughs]. And eventually, they’ll get to swargaloka, where they get infinite amount of artha and kama according to dharma [Laughs].
Devotee: For us it’s better to direct ourselves towards Krishna as you said with moksha and prema.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, so in that varnashrama dharma system, ultimately if they get to sattva-guna, they have an opportunity for moksha. It’s impersonal. But that moksha is only available to the people in sattva-guna, the brahmanas. So, by the process of bhakti, prema, which is above moksha, is available to everybody. And you don’t even have to be in the varnashrana system at all. So, it’s for everybody and it’s a higher goal and it’s quicker. Quicker.
6.) Maharaj my question is about siksha and diksha. In our movement, more emphasis is upon diksha, the initiation. I think that is an important connection with the spiritual master and an important part of the spiritual process. But as you said, I completely agree with this, siksha is the real substance of initiation, because there is transmission of knowledge. So, can you give us some suggestions on how can we help people who are now after initiation? How can we make them understand better because a lot of importance is given to diksha, having a spiritual name. But siksha is more important, that is the instructions and the teachings must be kept.
So, of course, one important factor is knowledge. So, if devotees have more knowledge of what is the actual process of diksha and what is siksha and what is important for the spiritual life, then they could give more emphasis to the siksha. However, there is also some obstacle. And the obstacle, we can say, is the ritual. Once we establish rituals, they kind of get fixed. And then those rituals also tend to become materialized. So that, of course, is what happened in this Sampradaya also. Inspite of the fact that Lord Caitanya is emphasizing chant the holy name and whatever, preach whatever, somehow they were also taking diksha.
So then the diksha became more influential and powerful. More important. The diksha becomes ritualized and therefore it gets more importance. And the reason for that, of course, is the ritual makes it easier to get a status. Status. Status. Position. If you undergo the ritual, then you belong to the Sampradaya. If you go to the ritual, you are better than the others who don’t go for the rituals [Laughs]. And it’s not unique to ISKCON or Gaudiyas, it’s in all religions, you will find that, they have little ceremonies by which you can be in the church or outside the church. Of course, ritual has its place, but we cannot depend on that. So when we depend on it more and more, then it does become materialized.
So we’re said, of course, we don’t judge a Vaishnava whether he’s a brahmana, Vaishnava, sudra, grhastha, sannyasi, brahmana. It doesn’t matter. We judge by his spiritual advancement. But then what we do, we judge them according to diksha or no diksha [Laughs]. You’re a devotee, you’ve got diksha. You’re not a devotee if you don’t have diksha. So it becomes materialized. So we have to kind of, you know, we can keep the diksha process, but then we have to see it with the proper perspective.
Ultimately, it may require a re-education of people who become diksha gurus. Re-education. At the present, devotees aspire to become diksha gurus, but for what reason? So that reason, of course, is mainly because people who were previously diksha gurus had nice positions [Laughs]. And then they kind of mix that up with spiritual position. They confuse that with spiritual standing. So then if you become a diksha guru simultaneously, you’ve got a higher spiritual position, plus you’ve also got power.
And of course, most of the people who become diksha gurus ultimately don’t even know what they’re doing as diksha gurus. What is their duty? What is their function as a diksha guru, as opposed to a siksha guru? What is their function? Most of them don’t know. What they do? Rely on just a ceremony. So because I do the ceremony, I’m a diksha guru. So that’s not a very good [Laughs] answer, not a good knowledge [Laughs]. So the diksha gurus also should be educated on what is their actual function, and then what is a siksha guru’s function. And who would-be disciples have to be educated also. On what is most important, as far as accepting a guru, whether it’s siksha or diksha.
Devotee: The disciple courses which are held are very important for the disciples.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: That was the original intent, the purpose of the course. But that strange thing is that even that course becomes part of a ritual [Laughs]. In order to get the diksha, then I have to take this course. Originally the course was like a five-day course that condensed into two days. And they just get the little papers that I pass the course, and then they get diksha [Laughs]. So then, perhaps, without even understanding the concepts, they manage to pass, and then they can get the diksha. So it becomes a little bit, also, a mechanical process. So, of course, maybe a more radical approach has to be taken [Laughs], a more radical, I would say, revolutionary approach. Maybe, maybe. And instead of encouraging everyone else to take diksha, we can encourage everyone, you can take a diksha guru, or you can take a siksha guru. And, of course, in scripture they’re equal. So, therefore, you can take a siksha guru or a diksha guru, and your status is equal either way. So, you become a bona fide member of ISKCON by either process.
7.) If a diksha guru gives you also siksha, he gives also siksha to the disciple. So, is there necessity to have a different guru?
So there is no necessity if the diksha guru also fulfills his function of giving siksha. You don’t need another diksha guru. Not necessarily. If we go by the example of Lord Caitanya or even Gopa Kumar in Brhad Bhagavatamrta or Nityananda, their diksha was simply to get a mantra. Finish. If you don’t have that mantra, you cannot do Deity worship. So, ultimately, why we need those mantras at all in diksha is for Deity worship. If we don’t do Deity worship, we would not need the diksha.
Why? Because our main process is chanting Hare Krishna, not Deity worship. However, in chanting Hare Krishna, you do need siksha. So, even if you don’t take diksha, you chant Hare Krishna, but you need siksha. And if you want to do Deity worship, you also take the diksha. And ideally, the diksha guru should also give siksha. But, as in the case of Lord Caitanya, Nityananda, Gopa Kumar, they didn’t get much siksha at all [Laughs]. But, they are said to be, they got diksha because they got the mantra.
So, your diksha guru may have some knowledge, he can give that, but he may not know everything. So, you may get diksha and then the guru gives some teachings. But, then you go to the guru and you say, well, can you teach me Rupa Goswami’s Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu? I want to know the second part, the third part. So, then he says, no, I haven’t studied it [Laughs]. You have to go to somebody else. So, then you find someone else. You go to the guru and say, is this person okay? He says, yes. So, you learn from another guru. So, you can only take one diksha guru. You could have many siksha gurus.
8.) So, if the diksha is also initiation, besides giving the mantra, it can also be instruction?
Yeah, yeah. Yes, sure. Now, unfortunately, what happens with ISKCON is the diksha guru goes to the ceremony, maybe on the first initiation, not even with the diksha mantras. But, even then, he doesn’t give that much instruction. So, many disciples say, I write letters, I don’t get any reply. He’s traveling around the world. I don’t see him except once every five years, so five minutes. So, then the only opportunity for siksha is if he could listen to some videos or [Laughs] so whatever, Skype or something like that. He is doing that. Otherwise, very little contact. So, it can be teachings, but it’s not too personalized also.
So, particularly, if the guru has more than a thousand disciples, it becomes very difficult to have personal instruction at all. So, therefore, you may have to go to someone else to get answers to some of your questions [Laughs]. And that, of course, it’s the complaint of many disciples. I get my first initiation, I’m expecting all the instruction or whatever, but I don’t get anything [Laughs]. So, then, what did they get? They got some beads. They got a name. What else [Laughs]? So, that’s what they got from the first initiation [Laughs].
That’s something, but it’s not, there’s no teaching there, so it’s not too significant in one sense. So, it is part of a ritual to signify you are a devotee. But, as I said, the main element of the association is to get teachings. The main element of association is to get teachings. So, that is not fulfilled, and many disciples feel that’s not fulfilled by that ceremony. So, that’s that’s the problem [Laughs].
Hare Krishna.
Devotees: Grantharaj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai!!! HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!! Nitai Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!!!