Siksastakam Verse 4 | HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj | Bhakti Yoga center, Chennai| 9 October 2019
jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī
gopījana-vallabha giri-vara-dhārī
yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-rañjana
yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Jaya Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda Jaya Prabhupāda
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Verse 4
na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ
kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye
mama janmani janmanīśvare
bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: So, Caitanya Mahaprabhu in these eight verses is, starts out by glorifying the Holy Name and shows the powers of the Holy Name and also how we should chant the Holy Name and as the verses progress, we see the effects of chanting the Holy Name. So, the previous verse talked about the humility and tolerance and respect that is necessary in chanting the Holy Name. So that’s part of the process of chanting itself. We can say also the cause of chanting. If we have a solid basis on those principles, then we can actually perform Bhakti and chant the Holy Name properly.
So, as we advance in devotional service and chanting the Holy Name, we develop more attraction for the Lord and we have less attraction for anything in the material world. However, even for beginning devotional service with faith, the qualification is faith, still there has to be, some other slight qualification is that, that is not too much attachment to material things and not too much detachment as well. So, we do have to have some sort of sense control from the very beginning of devotional service. However, Rupa Goswami also says that cultivating sattvic habits and controlling the senses etc is not an anga of Bhakti as such vairagya etc is not an anga of Bhakti. Because automatically all good qualities and sense control and renunciation develop with the process of Bhakti itself.
So, here we have a verse talking about detachment from material things which can be taken of course as some sort of qualification and also as some sort of result of the practice of devotional service and chanting the Holy Name. So, we have a whole group of things which are rejectable and not favorable for devotional service. Dhana – wealth or money, jana – followers, sundari – beautiful women, kavitam – knowledge and poetry or whatever. So, one doesn’t desire any of this. This is the statement here. Rather, the desire is only for life after life to have Bhakti to the lotus feet of Krishna. And it should be of course causeless or pure devotional service. So, two things are there, no desire for material enjoyment and devotion to the Supreme Lord, pure devotion, unmotivated devotion to the Lord birth after birth. So, of course one is a negative thing the other is the positive thing.
Similarly we have in devotional service itself, we have 64 angas of Bhakti, most of which are positive but then we have negative angas also. The second ten from 11 to 20, don’t do this, don’t do that. Don’t be overwhelmed by lamentation, don’t disrespect the devatas, don’t disturb other living entities, don’t commit aparadhas in the temple or Nama aparadhas etc. Don’t hear blasphemy of the devotees of the Lord. Don’t be too attached to followers. Don’t be too attached to material projects. Don’t be too attached to learning many scriptures [Laughs]. Don’t associate with materialistic people. So, we get a whole series of negative things as well as positive things.
So, this is necessary in the material world because these things act as obstacles to Bhakti and chanting the holy name. So therefore, the less we have of these things, then better we have chances of surviving in devotional service. So, we have to concentrate on somewhat degree on the negative things. In the spiritual world these things don’t exist. So therefore, the negative injunctions we don’t have in the spiritual world and we simply have the positive injunctions but they are no longer injunctions because they are also the nature of the jiva. So, they are no longer rules but when we are doing sadhana then we have these two sets of rules, the negative and the positive.
So, the whole process of Bhakti is developing more and more attraction for Krishna. Attraction of course meaning affection which does not have a material motivation. Which is probably difficult for everyone to imagine because in the material world, all of our emotions have some material root. So, it is very difficult to detach ourselves from material roots but we have to strive for that. So, in the very definition of Bhakti we have this ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ which is anyābhilāṣitā śūnya. So, we are cultivating a positive relationship with Krishna, trying to please Him with no other desire. That is the cornerstone of Bhakti. And when we have faith, we are actually having faith in that principle. If we don’t have faith in that principle, it is not real faith and therefore Bhakti does not have a solid foundation.
So, we often talk about faith as the qualification but we have to understand that faith itself is not simply I believe but it is more than that. It is belief in the existence of the Supreme Lord. I am the servant of the Lord and that, I try to express this pure Bhakti for the Lord. So, it includes the definition of Bhakti itself. And so that is the basis. So, once we accept that, then the counter rule as our principle is that I have to reject everything in the material world. All material existence, I have to reject that. If I am trying to express unconditional love for the Lord, then I have to reject everything else.
That is also expressed in the first ten rules of devotional service, the vidhis. So, we have to have a willingness to give up. For the service of Krishna, we have to give up things. So that is inherent in the whole process of Bhakti. Now which means that we do have attachments but we have to give them up. So, but the attitude of willingness to give them up is there. And therefore, one of the aparadhas is after hearing all the glories of the Holy Name to be strongly material attached and not give up those desires [Laughs]. So, therefore that will be a block for beginning devotional service and advancing at all, if we don’t have at least a willingness to give it up. So, therefore we begin with a lot of desires and a lot of attachments but at least a little bit of faith is there based upon the definition of pure Bhakti. So, we have a willingness to give up those material desires. So, that is the exact qualification for Bhakti, at least not too much material attachment and a willingness to give those things up.
So, on the other hand we do have that slight willingness to serve the Supreme Lord without material desires. So, the more we cultivate that, through the activities of sadhana Bhakti using our external senses and the mind and intelligence, that tendency to serve Krishna without material desires increases. To the extent that it increases necessarily the attraction to maya will decrease. So, that is why we say that vairagya is not an anga of Bhakti. It’s a natural result of the whole process of devotional service.
So, we see in the first chapter of Nectar of Devotion, the first unique characteristic of Bhakti is kleshaghni, to destroy all kleshas including ignorance, desires and karmas. So, all of the anarthas and all of the attractions to material things that we have are within these categories of ignorance, desires and karmas somewhere in there are all these things, that attachment to material energy is, includes all of these things. These are all destroyed by the process of Bhakti. So, then naturally one will manifest the opposite of the qualities of Bhakti. So therefore, we have subhadha, the devotee manifests all sorts of wonderful qualities in relation to the Supreme Lord. So then, automatically as one advances and develops more attraction for the Lord, then more, we develop more detachment from material things. So therefore, at the stage of bhava, one of the characteristics is detachment. One is detached from things in the material world. But this is not a sadhana of the bhava bhakta. It is simply a symptom that he has achieved because he is completely attached to hearing about the Lord and chanting the Lord’s name. So, then the opposite side is detachment from everything in the material world. So before that, we have to, to some degree also safeguard ourselves.
So, we do have some regulations we follow in order to control the senses. The main way we control the senses of course is by engaging them in devotional service. But then we have the negative things, don’t do this, don’t do that etc. So, that also helps us. So, here in the verse of Lord Caitanya, we have the negative aspects that, we don’t want wealth, followers, women, poetry, wisdom etc. So, we have to be aware that these things are anarthas and therefore we try to avoid them as much as possible. So, as long as these great attachments to things in the material world exist, it is difficult to advance in devotional service.
So we have two opposite urges. One is to enjoy in the material world the other is to surrender to Krishna. And they are opposite, because if you surrender to Krishna, it is anyābhilāṣitā śūnya. You can’t have any desires and the other one is only desires for myself. So, you can’t go in both directions at once. In the Bhagavatam, the example is given. I don’t know what is given here but if we are trying to pursue an object which is going west, we cannot go east. We have to go in the same direction [Laughs]. So, we can’t go in both directions at once. In other words, you either pursue material things or spiritual things. You can’t go for spiritual things and also material things at the same time. It doesn’t work, at least for pure Bhakti.
I think another example is given in Caitanya Bhagavatam. I think it is, it is like a person on the river. There are two boats. I think not big boats, little boats like in, the Jalangai river, we have these little boats that go by. So, you put one foot in one boat and one foot in the other boat. So, it is not a stable position because generally they go apart like this and you fall in the water. So, therefore that is the example of being too attached to material things and trying to pursue spiritual life at once. It doesn’t work. You are going in both directions, opposite directions. So therefore, the desires do have to go but the natural way we do that is by cultivating more and more attraction to Krishna with unmotivated affection and love. Then we get the proper result.
But then as I said, we have to use our intelligence to avoid certain things in the material world as much as possible. So, this does not mean we reject things as such but we reject their use. So, this is what we call the principle of yukta vairagya. So, we can use objects for the Lord as long as we don’t become attached to those things. So, we accept things and we also accept what is necessary to maintain the body and to practice our Bhakti. We accept more than that, it becomes sense gratification. We accept less than that, it is unnecessary vairagya. So therefore, we have to have a balance between too much renunciation and too much enjoyment of the material world, somewhere in between there.
Q & A:
1.) Maharaj since you mentioned, we have to accept things for the maintenance of the body, if we accept more than, it becomes too much attachment. Now what does it mean exactly? Maintenance of the body?
Well, whatever we need in terms of our body to practice our Krishna consciousness properly, that’s all. And different people are different. Some people need less food, some people need more food. Some people need less sleep, some people need more sleep. So, according to the individual what is best for his practice of Krishna consciousness, so that he can do his sadhana properly, I can say, it is the best level of maintenance. So, he has to eat so much and whatever like that but if he eats more, then of course he becomes sense gratifier etc. So, find out what is the most favorable for steady advancement and steady practice.
Devotee: So, also it seems like as we keep progressing the needs of the body will start reducing etc. Is that the right conclusion?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Food, of course even with age, we see what we need when we are 20 years old we don’t need when we are 40 years old in terms of food or whatever like that, when you are 60 you need less and when you are 80 you need less. So automatically as you age, then your needs also decrease. So that’s why they also practice vanaprastha after grhastha life and then sannyasa because naturally the needs are less. Unfortunately sometimes it doesn’t work that way [Laughs]. People keep up the same desires all their life but the natural progress is the body itself physically changes, so then, one should decrease in all these aspects of material enjoyment.
2.) Maharaj one who is entangled in the samsara, he has certain obligations. Then how fast or what should be the base that which he should practice detachment?
Well, detachment is not a practice. It’s a result. It’s only a minimum of detachment and for that reason Lord Caitanya didn’t emphasize that all of His devotees should take sannyasa or babaji or whatever. He just said that wherever you are situated you practice bhakti. And from that you progress and as you do bhakti and of course as they age also, then they will develop a sense of natural detachment. So here’s a nice verse from the Bhagavatam, tuṣṭi, puṣṭi and kṣud-apāya [ŚB 11.2.42]. They happen automatically one after the other as one eats. So similarly when one does bhakti one should develop pleasure, nourishment and relief. So simultaneously we develop more attraction for the Lord and we have no desire for material things. So naturally this should happen in the material world as we progress in bhakti.
So in the process of bhakti, all the processes are let’s say absolute but some are more effective for us than others or we can say strong. So hearing and chanting are considered to be the topmost of all. Of course we can never separate hearing and chanting, we have smaranam also and sadhu sanga. But generally we emphasize chanting also because it’s the yuga dharma but apart from even being the yuga dharma, it is also the most powerful means for advancing. Chanting the name of the Lord and then we have the hearing process which necessarily goes along with that, when we chant plus we hear scripture and get knowledge, so we can chant properly. So these are considered to be the most important activities for advancement in devotional service in developing our attraction for the Lord. So if we can cultivate these two things nicely, then automatically we should develop less attachment for material things.
So one stage is no fatigue even with constant performance of hearing and chanting. So after nistha, when one gets to ruchi and then asakti, then this begins to manifest that a taste manifests so one can just chant and one does not consider you know, fatigue or anything. So the more attraction we have and the less attraction for material things, then we get this, no fatigue taking place in the execution of devotional activities. So this starts in ruchi itself. So that is why here in Bhaktivinoda Thakura in discussing the Siksastaka, he has divided it into stages which is śraddha and sādhu-saṅga and then bhajana-kriya, anartha nivritti, ruchi, nistha and then ruchi. So he is taking this verse as ruchi, that once one is in ruchi, then spontaneously one is attached to the Lord and automatically no attachment to material things [Laughs].
So this is not a cultivation as such, as far as Bhaktivinoda Thakur, this is a symptom of ruchi. Of course we can say, at all stages it is there to some degree even at nishtha, but here because one is positively attracted to the Lord then ruchi means there is taste for the Lord. Of course taste is all the way through also, but from beginning of bhakti there is a little taste. But it becomes quite obvious in ruchi stage, which means that the attachment to Krishna is significantly more than the attachment to material things. So therefore, automatically the sense of detachment will be obvious also. Always engaged in the Lord, consequently not engaged in material things at all. It is not an attempt. It is just a result of his attraction to the Lord. That’s all. In terms of time and of course in terms of taste.
So in that state of ruchi, he laments his previous condition. He can understand that, when he is in the material world, he is simply wasting his time and even in terms of bhakti, in the beginning stages of bhakti, if we are going through anistitha stage then, we have to struggle with material desires. But once the taste for the Lord is there, then this attachment to material things is considered to be insignificant and it is no longer a struggle, and therefore he is always hearing and chanting in association with devotees. So the rejection is automatic at this stage.
That person also usually renounces his family and everything and takes refuge in the holy dham. So this is not complete stage. Ruchi is only one stage. Of course we can say that after this stage obviously there is no attachment and in bhava and then prema, zero attachment is there. But here at least the detachment from material things is quite significant because of his attachment to the Supreme Lord, so therefore, we distinguish this particular verse of rejection of material things associated with the stage of ruchi. Okay.
3.) Maharaj in this term faith itself, I have heard from last many classes from you. So it seems like bit by bit, bit by bit we are able to gradually grasp the term faith itself, sraddha because I just think it is not simply some belief but belief with trying to first please Krishna, there has to be desire to please Krishna and then also you said that today there has to be willingness to give up material attachments, otherwise one cannot even begin the process of bhakti. So can you please explain more Maharaj, the term faith itself because seems like there are many levels many layers to this definition of sraddha itself.
Well, of course faith is a qualification for bhakti. If we have no conviction in the Lord and in the process of pure bhakti, then it is very difficult to practice it. So that’s the basic idea of qualification. And this is not a material qualification or a mental qualification, it is a conviction of the soul, the jiva. So it is not some superficial thing [Laughs]. Because that can change everyday. Somebody can convince you something else, so then okay, if it is a logical conclusion you come to only, then it is not going to work because if somebody defeats you logically then your faith changes. So therefore it is something that manifests in the jiva. In other words, it’s a reorientation of the jiva from material conviction and material satisfaction. Or we can say that, that part is to do with the mind. But at least the conviction that, I have to enjoy for myself. That is the conviction in the atma and then it spreads into the ahankara and the mind and those all desires and karmas everything mixed up and then we do activities in the material world for enjoyment, and we accrue more karmas.
So the first alteration of that is, when we get this faith and then we have a little conviction that this is not the proper thing to do, it’s not very strong but it is a little conviction. And that I should not do this, I should actually try to dedicate myself to pleasing the Lord instead of pleasing myself. So as long as it is still for the self, then that’s like the anchor and then we can’t progress. So we have to give that up, so inherent in the process is this idea of serving the Lord for His pleasure, not for my pleasure. So that’s like a basic idea there, that’s one thing. And then along with that then we have so many other things.
Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that, there is a taste, ruchi also within that faith. There is also saranagati, surrender is in there itself. And therefore humility is in there also within the faith itself. So the, that we can say the surrender to some degree is there even though surrender is also the anga of bhakti, it is also a qualification in the sense that, there has to be an attitude of being the servant. It’s not there, I am still the enjoyer [Laughs] when we are the servant, we are no longer the enjoyer. Of course in material world, servants also enjoy but [Laughs] they get money and they enjoy separately, but the idea of servant here is that, we are trying to please the Lord only and not for ourself, that’s the idea of servant. So therefore, there is an automatic sense of humility there. And that is why that is a qualification for chanting properly, we see tṛṇād api su-nīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā [CC Ādi 17.31] and giving respect to all living entities and not expecting respect for oneself.
So these are all aspects of understanding that we are just a small particle at the lotus feet of the Lord, which is also indicated in the next verse, this asakti verse here. But it starts with the faith itself, there has to be some sense of that, it is not fully developed obviously but there has to be a sense of that, if it is not there then the faith is not complete.
4.) Maharaj once I had asked you [Laughs] a question that, what should we do when we are in anistitha bhajana kriya and try to come to nishtha. So you had told that, we have already discussed it in the class and then I asked that, so is it that we are supposed to become nistitha bhakta? So you had said that it is supposed to be [Laughs] once we understand we are supposed to become nistitha bhakta. But today I am realizing that even the adau sraddha seems to be a very significant step for the jiva [Laughs] maybe it may take a lot of struggle, probably just to have the adau sraddha, what to speak of nistha then? So you can please recommend that what should the devotees do, when they find themselves lack of faith or lack of stability in devotional service?
Well, faith also as Rupa Goswami when he is talking about vaidhi bhakti, he says there’s three types of faith. There’s komala sraddha, the kanistha, there’s madhyama sraddha and there’s uttama sraddha, all within sadhana itself, we assume because that’s where it’s placed and it’s related to scripture because vaidhi bhakti is also related to scripture. So those who have very little knowledge of scripture, the kanisthas, they are komala sraddha. So if people talk to them and they can convince them very easily to do something else instead of bhakti. Because they have no scriptural basis, no proper understanding of anything. So they can be convinced.
Of course Jiva Goswami also, I think Jiva Goswami says that, anyway they may go away and leave but ultimately the sraddha is still there, even though logically they have been convinced. So they will come back later [Laughs]. But at least [Laughs] they are you know, not so stable. So that’s called the kanisthas. Better than nothing that’s where most people will start but we have to get a little more knowledge than that, little more. That’s why sadhu sanga is also necessary in order to get the scriptural knowledge.
Once we get a little scriptural knowledge, then we come to the madhyama stage. So the madhyama has some faith but he has some scriptural understanding to back it up, so he logically understands why he is doing this and what is pure bhakti as opposed to mixed bhakti and that we have to express our surrender for the Lord more and more and consequently develop less attachment for material things etc. So he has a little more knowledge and therefore even if people argue with him and he cannot answer them completely, still he does not give up his faith.
Then we have the uttama who has praudha sraddha or deep faith, strong convictions and deep knowledge as well, so that he can logically present things and he can argue against people who counter him and he can also even defeat them and convince them. He can convince other people. So that is considered the uttama in faith. So here the depth of faith and the strength of faith is determined by the amount of knowledge. But again Bhaktivinoda Thakur says, you don’t get all of this simply by reading books or by memorizing things or whatever, that’s not knowledge [Laughs]. So it has to come through the proper source, parampara, it has to come through the devotees, has to be accompanied by practice itself. So that’s how we get the knowledge. So therefore the faith is a qualification but it never leaves, it gets stronger and stronger as we advance in devotional service. But it have to get to start somewhere. So let’s start with the komala stage maybe, which is not a perfect thing but when we get knowledge then it becomes little stronger, when we get more and more knowledge, then it becomes very strong.
Devotee: So that means one should keep working. What I understand is, one will find oneself lacking in faith or stability, so that time a person should keep acquiring more knowledge of bhakti scriptures, Gita, Bhagavatam etc. That’s what we should do?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah.
Devotee: One should study the books and carefully understand the sastras.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Yeah, yeah. But of course it should be, see, bhakti itself is not a material process. So it’s not like getting your B.Com or your MA or whatever [Laughs] MS or whatever like that where you can memorize some stuff and do some exercises. It’s not a logical process. It involves logic definitely because things are sensible, they make sense and the bhakti also makes sense. But it is not completely just a logical process. So therefore, that taste for bhakti which is also there in the beginning has to be there. Some inclination which is part of the faith itself, an attraction for the Lord has to be there in the whole process of our hearing scriptures etc.
5.) Can you explain Maharaj that just as you mentioned that, it’s not just reading which will give us the conviction etc, so what turns the knowledge into conviction? Like different people may read the same sastra books and hear from the same source but some may get very deep conviction, others may not actually get deep conviction. So what is that?
It depends on an initial favorability or little bit of ruchi [Laughs]. So in other words Rupa Goswami says in the beginning, near the beginning of the Nectar of Devotion, you cannot understand this by logic but by ruchi [Laughs]. The book, Nectar of Devotion. So if the jnani or the karmi studies it and they may be very intelligent like karma mimamsikas or others, they will not appreciate it. But if a devotee reads it, he has real devotion, then he will appreciate that book.
So we do have to have a favorable attitude and then we can read the things and because it does make sense, it has some logic behind it for our logical mind, we get more conviction in the whole process. So in other words, Supreme Lord is not completely illogical in how He does things [Laughs]. He has some reason behind doing things and then we can appreciate the reason, why He does this or how He does this, by reading the scriptures if we have the proper mind.
So scripture is such that, you can get whatever meaning you want out of it. It’s also called paroksha vada, indirect expression. So the meaning is sometimes hidden. So if you want to get jnana meaning or yoga meaning or a karma meaning you can get that but if you want to get a bhakti meaning then you have to have bhakti.
Devotee: Does that also relate to mercy, mercy factor of Krishna like prasada lesa anugraha tevi, we see in the Caitanya Caritamrta also that, how Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya initially, though so knowledgeable could not recognize Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So therefore, his brother-in-law he says to him that actually you don’t have any mercy only because of which you may know, you are like a dry oil cake from which all the oil has been removed because you don’t have any mercy. So you have knowledge but you don’t have mercy therefore you can’t understand Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So what is this exactly Maharaj like mercy which a devotee should have to be able to get such conviction?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, of course we have two types of mercy. We have material mercy which is, we can say, sattva guna intense or sattva guna whereas tamo guna is the opposite, it’s pretty, you know, violent whatever like that. So that’s not real qualification. But we have mercy on the other hand which is a manifestation of Supreme Lord and manifestation of the devotees of the Lord. That’s spiritual character. That’s why we have also, give respect to all living entities, don’t expect respect for oneself and don’t harm any living entity. That’s one of the rules of bhakti also.
And in the third canto, there’s a whole section about not interfering with other living entities like Kapila Dev. So on one hand, we think well, that’s all material but that also is, we can say that material compassion is a reflection of spiritual compassion. So the devotee will automatically have such an attitude towards all living beings because he takes them as the servants of the Supreme Lord even if they don’t know what are the, they are in ignorance. So therefore, he’s compassionate towards all living entities. In that sense but it’s a little bit different from material compassion which is not directly, not connected with Krishna. So therefore, by not showing mercy, then we can say, actually he doesn’t show any taste for bhakti [Laughs].
Devotee: Maharaj like, how does one receive this mercy because without mercy it seems that even the study of scripture doesn’t lead to convictions in Krishna. So how should a devotee receive. As a practitioner how should one receive this mercy?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Well, for devotees, then obviously if we are devotees then one of our rules is sadhu sanga, so we associate with other devotees. So therefore, we can get the knowledge through the devotees, not just by independent scripture. Yes, we can read the book etc, but unless we have the proper attitude, we won’t get the correct understanding. So in the beginning, of course we may not have the right attitude, but then, by taking the knowledge through a devotee, then we will understand that, you know, what the real meaning is and then we don’t have the correct attitude, then we gradually develop. Then we can get that, then there’s a qualification also. So therefore we have pranipatena, that to get the knowledge then you have to be pranipat, you have to be surrendered and you have to be inquisitive. Pariprasna and seva, willingness to implement the instructions even. So there has to be a willingness to get the knowledge also, eagerness for the knowledge.
6.) Can you tell little bit more about humility Maharaj?
Well, the example given is the grass and it says sunīca, which means lower, lower than the grass and then more tolerant than the tree. So lower than the grass, the grass is on the ground and then animals and human beings step on the grass and it’s not very high, it’s very low, so it has a natural position of lowness. This doesn’t mean that therefore, everyone takes advantage of you in the material world. It may happen like that but anyway the devotee doesn’t care because he’s not attached to anything in the material world at that point anyway. So there’s no advantage taken of him because he has nothing anyway to begin with. But the idea is the attitude of being infinitesimal in relation to the Supreme Lord, that’s where how it arises. It’s not infinitesimal in the other sense.
So we have the material humility or weakness can be taken as a weakness in the material world because everyone is competing and striving for material goals and so therefore, if you are weak, people will take advantage of you. So that is not what is expressed here by humility. This is we can say, a conviction and an attitude based upon one’s acceptance of the idea that one is a servant of the Lord and that the Lord is absolute and all powerful and I am just a little particle, a little jiva like a little spark and therefore, I have no independence ultimately because even my knowledge and whatever abilities I have are dependent on the Supreme Lord. So therefore, it’s natural to feel very secondary in relation to the Lord and also very dependent on the Lord and also very grateful to the Lord. Because whatever one has, is coming from the Supreme Lord. So it’s a natural sense which should develop with bhakti and as I said it’s inherent itself in the very faith that we have for bhakti, like something that develops as we go on with bhakti.
7.) Maharaj you said that the qualification itself to receive mercy, which is tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. So like, sometimes if you find that we are not able to have this particular thing also, so like there is some willingness to advance and practice bhakti but we are not willing to surrender or willing to inquire submissively and render service. So then how to cultivate this thing?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: If we have no willingness at all?
Devotee: Very little is there but it’s not so strong that we are able to do.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: But we have a little willingness to surrender to Krishna, is it?
Devotee: Yes Maharaj.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: Okay. Well, if there is a willingness to serve Krishna without any other desire, then automatically as we try to do our bhakti, we should advance a little over that and then accept the willingness to accept all the rules and regulations and all the favorable things and reject all the unfavorable things that go with it, that’s part of surrender also, accept what is favorable, reject what is unfavorable and that the idea of karpanya being very insignificant and miserable. It’s all, all there within surrender and then Bhaktivinoda says, an element of that is there in sraddha itself. But we can take that as an independent anga of bhakti as well. So we have to cultivate that as well.
So therefore, with the practice of bhakti itself that surrender should automatically increase and increase. Anyway, even if we don’t do it as a separate anga as the faith deepens. So therefore, the idea of inquiring etc and serving and being submissive should automatically develop along with the process of bhakti but then again one of the elements of advancement is sadhu sanga itself. So if we don’t do that, then it becomes very difficult to advance in devotional service. So there should be some element of willingness to accept the devotees in the beginning.
8.) Hare Krishna. Maharaj you said that, this verse, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ, it’s not a practice of a devotee but rather it’s an outcome of one’s attachment to Krishna.
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj : Yeah, in the beginning we do need some minimum because one qualification is not too much material attachment, so, that’s why we have some regulative principles etc.
Devotee: Yes Maharaj. So my question is how does it apply to the previous verse tṛṇād api su-nīcena. Is there like humility and other things? Is that an external practice or that is also an outcome?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj: It’s both. It’s a qualification also and it’s also a result [Laughs]. Because as I said, Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that, within faith itself there’s an element of surrender and that includes karpanya, humility etc, like that, so there’s an element there within the qualification itself but obviously as we advance in bhakti, it grows. And then Lord Caitanya says, in order to chant continuously you need that. In that sense, so if it doesn’t develop then there’s a problem. You cannot chant continuously. So it’s a symptom that develops and of course Sanatana Goswami says in Brhad Bhagavatamrta that, that humility increases and increases as one advances and in the highest devotees, we have the highest humility. So therefore, the Gopis have the utmost humility of all, in prema. So therefore, that humility continues all the way through bhakti and so we can say it’s intrinsic to bhakti itself and therefore the greatest devotees have the greatest humility.
Devotee: So Maharaj what I understand, in the beginning it has to be an external practice also but because as one goes through the process of devotional service it will become internal, more of an internal thing?
HH Bhanu Swami Maharaja: Yeah. Well, as sadhana bhakti means it is a practice. So we’re doing ānukūlyena kṛṣṇa-anuśīlanaṁ and it’s not completely perfect because we don’t even know what unconditional love is [Laughs] and how to do it without any other desire but we try to practice it anyway, so in that sense it’s external but as we do it, then it becomes internalized.
9.) Maharaj this verse vairagya vidya nija bhakti yoga, what is the relationship of vairagya, vidya with bhakti, I mean [Laughs]?
Well, the natural results of bhakti in the sense that you know, jnana and vairagya are natural results of bhakti. I think the reason those are stated there is because jnana and vairagya are the principles of jnana, which is opposite to karma kanda. So when you get out of karma kanda, then you say jnana and vairagya are the main principles but then in bhakti, that’s not the main principle, it’s the secondary result of it. So we strive for devotion of the Lord and jnana and vairagya automatically develop. So whatever is accomplished by jnana is automatically included within the process of bhakti without any endeavor.
10.) Maharaj what is unnecessary vairagya?
Yeah, some people in other words, the definition given here is that, what we do to maintain, to practice bhakti properly that would be the proper renunciation. And also the proper lack of sense gratification or whatever. So on the other hand, people may go to extremes to do austerities etc, as we see with the yogis or the kumbha mela people and going to the Himalayas and sitting in a cave and eating you know, once a week or whatever they do, like that or in case of even Dhruva breathing once a week, whatever he did [Laughs]. So these are extreme cases of renunciation which is common in yoga practice and among vairagis and to some extent among jnanis.
So we say on the other hand, that is not necessary. The vairagya is there in order to get control of the senses and control of the mind. So the process for the devotee is by engaging the senses and the mind in Krishna. That’s our control of the mind. So instead of practicing that, we engage ourselves more in pleasing Krishna, engaging our senses. So in other words, we do have some renunciation. We fast on Ekadasi or we fast on Janmastami. We do these minor type of things. And then we have some basic rules and regulations. But that’s favorable for us. That much vairagya we do. Over that, then we consider it to be you know, unnecessary.
Devotees: HH Bhanu Swami Maharaj ki jai!!! Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!!